Originally Posted by shetline
Doesn't the UK have markets which sell "organic" foods which are more or less free of this "crap" you speak of, clearly labeled as such? Labeling requirements for food?
yes there are organic products. There are 2 problems with this.
1. they are vastly more expensive than the toxic crap and
2. the range makes up such a small proportion of your total shop, that any benefit of not eating toxic crap is lost by all the things you have to buy that do contain toxic crap. Its mostly psychological and profiteering.
Originally Posted by shetline
I realize those system aren't perfect (producers sometimes cheat, people argue whether the legal requirements for labeling something as "organic" are strict enough), but saying people have "no choice" doesn't strike me as true -- people just have to put more effort into watching what they buy, and often have to pay more for "organic" foods because those foods cost more to produce.
there is no choice if you cant afford to pay the premium for safe food. There is no choice if you cant afford to invest the time in making the effort to source the safe food.
Frankly, it shouldn't need to be a choice whether you spend considerable time, money and effort sourcing safe food, or eating toxic crap. All food should be safe. Period.
Its the very people, the poor, undereducated, who least understand the issue, who are forced to eat this rubbish. Those who are least able to be able to afford financially the premium on safer food, can least afford the heath care that comes in fixing themselves up after years of dieting on toxins.
It should boil down to this - any person who wants to buy, say an Apple, should by default be able to go into any shop and buy an Apple that is not sprayed with carcinogenous chemical sprays - regardless of whether they are poor, uneducated, rich, famous or whatever.
Chris would want there to be an option to buy a poisoned Apple and a safer one. Why? Why? Why? You just want to buy an Apple - you shouldn't need to spend time money and effort making sure you're not buying an Apple that fucks you up. All Apples for sale should be safe and free of toxic crap. Its an option i'll happily go without thankyou very much.
There are and have been things put into our foods which aren't the healthiest things to consume. But I object to the underlying assumption that many people seem to make that pretty much anything we put in our food today that you couldn't have found on a rural farmhouse 300 years ago is TOXIC CRAP!!!!!
look through the list i gave above? Really, really, does 95% of that stuff need to be added to food? No. Precisely because there is a small niche market of safer food, that is bought to market just as well as the toxic crap, PROVES that all this stuff is unnecessary. And it exists just because it adds a few buck to the bottom line and because, in reality there is no real choice. You're forced into accepting the default.
Average human life spans have been slowly and steadily increasing throughout the industrialized world right along with the development and increasing use of artificial food additives. Obviously many factors contribute to increased longevity, like improved sanitation and improved medical care, and I'm not saying that this stuff you call "toxic crap" is likely to be part of a great positive impact, but if the effect is negative, just how negative could it be? Are we being robbed of even greater and faster increases in life span? How would you know that's the case?
If this trend in obesity continues, you will see that life expectancy starts falling. I dont have data - its obvious - fat people kill themselves early, now if the majority are fat...do the math. The problem here is that we are pumping people full of shit, and then pumping them full of shit to try to cure them. Its largely unavoidable if they weren't being screwed from the moment they opened their mouths.
There will always be fat people, lazy people, stupid people, uneducated people, poor people - you cant change that, what you can do is help the unfortunate by not assisting them in screwing themselves because of their inherited circumstances.
Some people will always stuff themselves with cake and get fat, its their choice - but we dont have to screw them even more by having 50 toxic chemicals that they become addicted to, in the cream just so the cake has a shelf life of a few hours extra. (allegorical argument)
Fine - have the cream cake - why should it be a forced option to invest considerable time, effort and money into buying a cake that doesn't fuck you. All cakes should be as safe as possible from the outset. Its a choice and freedom i'll happily go without.
I just wanted a cake, not the option to buy a safe cake or a toxic one.
Things like trans-fats have proven to be bad. We probably should be more careful about what we put into food, directly and indirectly (the indirect stuff being things like pesticides, drugs and hormones fed to livestock), but I think that much of the furor over "toxic crap" in our food is driven by a completely irrational and unproven technophobic assumption "NATURAL = GOOD!!!, ARTIFICIAL = BAD!!!"
is there any need for trans-fat? No, its just a way for companies to add a few bucks to the bottom line. It should be outright banned - they dont care if their product is killing people - why give a fuck if they are forced to use a slightly more expensive safer oily product if the goods require it.
The Mc donalds empire is not falling apart because a few countries have banned trans-fatty oils for frying their food. Now consider this - if I go into mcdonalds and they have a counter that sells food that is all cooked in trans-fat, clearly labelled that "this product contains trans-fats very damaging to your health" - and next to that is a counter that sells exactly the same product that is cooked in healthy oils and it is virtually the same price and it is marked up as such - which counter is near everyone going to go to? That is a 'real informed choice'
You dont really need these freedoms and choices. There is no value to them, because at the moment the choices are illusionary anyway.
Another irony of modern health problems: it's now seeming very likely that many of the increases we've seen in allergy problems are due to too much clean living. Studies have shown that children raised in very clean environments fail to fully develop their immune systems as they should, and their bodies end up later in life having excessive overreactions to substances they'd otherwise have learned to recognize as harmless, or to fight off by better means (T2 immune system instead of a T1 reaction).