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ZFS in Leopard?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/11983/

Sounds to me like this is real. If this turns out to be true, how big a deal is it?

- Mark
post #2 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_markt

Sounds to me like this is real. If this turns out to be true, how big a deal is it?

Given some of the reports about ZFS, it could be a very big deal. Given that most consumer Macs have laptop hard drives, a high performance filesystem can make up for the lack of performance while maintaining the quietness and low power consumption:

http://cmynhier.blogspot.com/2006/05...chmarking.html

I like the name too. I would have preferred XFS to go with OS X but that's taken already.

I'd love it if Apple started shipping ipods as ZFS because that might start a universal acceptance of the format.
post #3 of 27
Just found this:



Source: http://www.aeroxp.org/board/index.ph...pic=7201&st=15

Good news indeed!
post #4 of 27
Answer me this, is it anyway possible that the Leopard that ships will have a ZFS file system?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #5 of 27
Anything is possible.
post #6 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmf

Anything is possible.

So it's possible that Leopard will stick my Pizzas in the Microwave, download anything off the Internet at speeds faster then 400 Gbps and fly me to the moon?

Sebastian
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post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland

Answer me this, is it anyway possible that the Leopard that ships will have a ZFS file system?

It looks like it will support the ZFS file system on secondary drives but, considering that ZFS isn't supported as a bootable filesystem by any OS, I doubt you'll be using it on your boot drive.

I suppose you could have the OS on an HFS+ partition and have a ZFS formatted working partition - which is the only way it would be usable on a Macbook, Macbook Pro, Mac Mini, or iMac.
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post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution

I suppose you could have the OS on an HFS+ partition and have a ZFS formatted working partition - which is the only way it would be usable on a Macbook, Macbook Pro, Mac Mini, or iMac.

Or you could just use an External HDD.

Sebastian
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post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis

Or you could just use an External HDD.

Sebastian

That's fine for an iMac or a Mini ... not so good if you want a great filesystem on your portable. Since work is being done on making it ZFS support bootable filesystems, I exepct that it will happen soon enough - more so, if Apple are throwing some engineering dollars behind it.
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post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution

It looks like it will support the ZFS file system on secondary drives but, considering that ZFS isn't supported as a bootable filesystem by any OS, I doubt you'll be using it on your boot drive.

I know about this, and the fact that it's open source, but is it possible that Apple and Sun have something up their sleeves, with regards to ZFS and the Leopard release time-frame? Could that be one of the reasons that Leopard wont be released until spring?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution

That's fine for an iMac or a Mini ... not so good if you want a great filesystem on your portable. Since work is being done on making it ZFS support bootable filesystems, I exepct that it will happen soon enough - more so, if Apple are throwing some engineering dollars behind it.

Correct. But an External HDD is still one way to make this usable, even on a Laptop, just not the best way.

Sebastian
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post #12 of 27
I can see apple slowly introducing ZFS as a FS choice for secondary drives first. I would let them work out any bugs with it before they move it to being the main FS. I'm guessing we could see ZFS as a main FS option sometime around 10.6.
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"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

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post #13 of 27
So this is another of the 'big' features for Leopard?

'Secret' features? Sounds good from what I can tell. More robost, flexible and efficient hard drive/data storage?

Lemon Bon Bon

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

Just found this:



Source: http://www.aeroxp.org/board/index.ph...pic=7201&st=15

Good news indeed!

That image showing ZFS in what looks like Disk Utility appears to be slightly transparent. If you look closely there are some bullet points. I just opened Disk Utility (not on Leopard) and don't see any transparency in it. What's the explanation for this??? Is Leopard's Disk Utility transparent? Or is this some bad photoshop job?
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macvault

That image showing ZFS in what looks like Disk Utility appears to be slightly transparent. If you look closely there are some bullet points. I just opened Disk Utility (not on Leopard) and don't see any transparency in it. What's the explanation for this??? Is Leopard's Disk Utility transparent? Or is this some bad photoshop job?

It looks like a sheet.
post #16 of 27
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

http://themachackers.com/

NICE

Wow, good find Murch'.
post #18 of 27
Suhweet. Looks like it's coming along well.
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post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha

Suhweet. Looks like it's coming along well.

Not well enough for a January release for Leopard though.

Vista consumer version is out on Jan 30th I believe so I guess it will have to be after that anyway.
post #20 of 27
I've got no problems with an April 2007 release with a dearth of bugs and solid ZFS support. Vista is a non-factor, neither OS affects the other.

I'm a bit surprised to see Apple is so far along with ZFS. Man this is going to be a boon for creative types that want to just create a nice big pool of storage. I didn't want to get my hopes up regarding ZFS but now the fire has been stoked.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee no more volume management!!!!
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post #21 of 27
i still dont know what ZFS is even after reading the Wiki and looking at other posts
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by sthiede View Post

i still dont know what ZFS is even after reading the Wiki and looking at other posts

It's a file system that embodies all benefits of HFS+ (our current file system) + more...lots more.

I really hope Apple+Solaris get this sucker to work for boot disks because file systems are one of those things that nobody understands or wants to understand and hardly anyone's gonna benefit from it until they buy a new computer (who besdies geeks actually care about the file system? Nobody...although they should.)

If Apple can make ZFS the default file system and make Time Machine and File Vault tap into the snapshot and encryption features of ZFS...oh boy.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

It's a file system that embodies all benefits of HFS+ (our current file system) + more...lots more.

I really hope Apple+Solaris get this sucker to work for boot disks because file systems are one of those things that nobody understands or wants to understand and hardly anyone's gonna benefit from it until they buy a new computer (who besdies geeks actually care about the file system? Nobody...although they should.)

If Apple can make ZFS the default file system and make Time Machine and File Vault tap into the snapshot and encryption features of ZFS...oh boy.

Exactly! Imagine having an 8-core Mac Pro with ZFS.

Visualize no silent corruption. Realize that RAID 5 will protect data loss but not data corruption.

Visualize adding storage at anytime without having seperate drive icons littering the desktop.

Visualize redundancy...lose data if can be replaced from parity information

Visualize encryption at the drive level. Suddenly Mac Vault isn't such a bad thing.

Visualize compression. Imagine your joy when you compress your hard drive and regain Terabytes of storage.

Visualize World Peace.
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post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Man this is going to be a boon for creative types that want to just create a nice big pool of storage.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee no more volume management!!!!

I'm not getting how this works. It sounds as if when you plug in a drive you get a single amount of storage which implies that files are split between drives without you knowing which one is where.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Storage_pools
post #25 of 27
Yup, nor should you care.

You don't care right now that your files are split and scattered all over a drive, do you?
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post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Yup, nor should you care.

You don't care right now that your files are split and scattered all over a drive, do you?


I sure don't. I'd rather the OS/fs handle that mundane task. I'd love to view everything as a contiguous block of storage yet maintain the ability to manage some of the higher level stuff.

Man I really can't wait to see how Leopard evolves. This stuff is great.
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post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Yup, nor should you care.

You don't care right now that your files are split and scattered all over a drive, do you?

I think people are worried that if one drive fails, half their files will become corrupt/destroyed.

What they don't understand is that even if the two drives were considered seperate and even if one had control over which files go into which drive, there's no way to know which drive will fail, so the same situation occurs...one loses files. Maybe less than half the files, but maybe more than half. Depends how the person decided to store his files. It's a 50/50 gamble.

They also don't realize that ZFS can detect the symptoms of a failing drive...the file system will attempt to move files off the failing hard drive and onto the good hard drive. And because of this, ZFS is the superior solution.

I'd rather have a file system that pools hard drive capacity and that attempts to stuff all the files onto the good hard drives when one of them is failing than many seperate hard drives with a file system that is too dumb to save the files from the failing hard drive.

Sounds a lot like "I'd rather be rich than stupid."

If people want to visualize the concept, they should picture the way RAM works. Adding more RAM to a computer simply pools the memory capacity of each RAM chip (well, the OS does it) and makes it available to the OS and all apps. There's no segregation anymore...nobody can assign a particular RAM chip's memory capacity to a particular app...and if one RAM chip fails, chances are the user will see a the wonderful kernel panic curtain of death unfold before his eyes and some data will be lost. It's the same for hard drives.
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