Originally Posted by ArchiMark
Your comment that Ahmenijad is only 'against zionism, not the jews' is a fundamentally flawed and ultimately a racist, anti-semitic argument. That is because while it sounds inocuous to say that as if you're just against some 'idea' (ie zionism'), not a whole people is ridiculous in this case, as it was the zionist movement that lobbied the British to gain back the historical homeland of the Jewish people. Israel (and even more area than the current borders were historically part of Israel). Therefore, if you are against the idea of zionism, then you're really saying that you're against the idea of a Jewish country. And if you're against the idea of a Jewish homeland then you're really against the concept of the Jewish people existing in the world with a home like any other people and thus it is inherently a racist, genocidal concept.
Would you say that about France, Germany, Italy, etc that the people in those countries don't deserve a homeland??? You'd (or others) I doubt would ever say that, but somehow it has become OK to say that about Israel.
First, when you talk about "anti-Semitism", don't forget that 'semite' refers to a race, to which Middle Eastern Jews belong,.. but which also encompasses Arabs and others. Are you confusing a faith and a race here?
Judaism is a religious faith
. Zionism is a political/geographical movement to create a state (a "Greater Israel") for the Jewish people. In the light of what happened during WW2, it is not surprising that the idea of a Jewish nation garnered wide international approval in the West. However, if that was the justification for the ultimate (re)recreation of Israel, why hasn't the international community extended that standard to all the other minority groups who suffered appalling losses in the Holocaust.. such as the Romani, Poles and other Slavs, the disabled, Jehovah's Witnesses, dissenters, clergy, homosexuals etc.? In the creation of that nation state for that one group, don't forget that hundreds of thousands of people, especially Palestinians, were forcibly evicted from their homes and herded like cattle into concentration-camp like refugee facilities in Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt, where they and their descendants remain in exile to this day. The pogrom against the Palestinian people continues apace, and with the tacit approval of the West.
In the creation of a state in which one group is seen as preferred, or favored, is this not a form of apartheid? Israel is widely promoted as a 'beacon of democracy' in amongst a sea of middle eastern monarchies, dictatorships and theocracies... but do all groups within that country have equal rights. liberties and opportunities? (silly question, perhaps...)
Also, lest we should ever forget (I guess most people would rather not want to know, more like
), some of the main forces responsible for the promotion of Zionist ideals were active terrorist organizations (Irgun Zvia Leumi, the Stern Gang, Hagganah) which indulged itself in numerous bombings and killings in the post WW2 years. Even a future Israeli Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, was an active member of one of these terrorist groups. (Extending *that* standard, can we ever expect to see Ayman Zarahiri or the shoe bomber run for political office accepted and embraced in the US and the west in general?
). Oops.. do I get classified as a Jew hater for airing their dirty laundry? All terrorists are Muslims, don't forget..... just like "all drugs is white powder"...
About 6 million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust. However, looking through the total death statistics of those killed in WW2 for non-conformity to "Aryan standards", the total figure is usually quoted at around double that... approx. 12 million, and some have estimated it to be as high as 45 million. Now, take a look through the websites of the two main organizations (SWC
) which have taken on the task of Holocaust awareness, and one will see that they are promoting it as solely
a Jewish disaster (see the SWC logo, for starters). Yes,.... it was a "Jewish disaster", and the Jews suffered the largest losses of any one group.. but in the mainstream's virtually complete omission of every other group who were killed en masse at the hands of Hitler and the Nazis, the Simon Weisenthal Organization and the Anti Defamation League (and the mainstream media as a whole) verge perilously close to the land of (selective) Holocaust Denial. There is no denying that one. What are the reasons for this double standard? Are people throughout the world being edumacated that the other forgotten >6 million are of "lesser importance", or they are lesser people, or follow 'lesser faith(s)'? Or what? Can anyone offer some "enlightenment" here?
Ahmadinejad/rabid Jihadists, and the mainstream Western promoters of Holocaust" Awareness" seem to have more in common that we would like to admit.(another oops... is this the end of the thread... did I just invoke Godwin's Law?)