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Is Ahmadinejad the New Hitler? - Page 3

post #81 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Some facts to bring us all down to earth:

1) Ahmadinejad has no power. The Mullahs can and will remove him the moment it becomes politically expedient.

Right now both they (the religious leaders) and the US are playing a cat and mouse game with the western public as the patsy.

The Mullahs get to use Ahmedinejad as a kind of 'non-religious' puppet for themselves to dupe their populace (although the students have seen through it and are increasing protests by the day) and will offer him up as a sacrificial lamb when the time is ripe to talk to the US.

The US for their part get a bogey to continue the 'scare the sheep' program with and also as they know he will be made to fall on his sword in due course have a ready made excuse for diplomatic negotiations with the 'enemy' when he is kicked into touch: 'Iran is ok now he has gone' sort of campaign.

2) Ahmadinejad never said 'Wipe Israel off the map' and this is so well established now that anyone who continues to claim it is either woefully ignorant of the topic to the degree they have no right to discuss it or else deliberately perpetuating a lie for the own reasons.

3) The Holocaust Conference and Holocaust denial: I have yet to hear Ahmadinejad deny the Holocaust. What I have heard him say is that Zionists use the Holocaust for political capital and that it is a subject which one is not allowed to question. In essence his statements boil down to "if there was a Holocaust why can it not be questioned?" in the same way as one is allowed to question the shape of the earth.

He may or may not feel that the Holocaust is a myth,certainly there are mythic elements - I was told many times when I was a child that Jews were made into soap in the camps for example, this was not true but everyone believed it at the time and questioning it brought the same reactions questioning other similar issues does now - and it may be that he is questioning there or else using the issue as leverage to fight Zionism (something that certainly needs to be done and is being done by many people including many Jews) or he may just be a racist.

In the end it doesn't matter - there are racists everywhere, in the IDF, in the White House, rampant in the UK, so what? I'd be happy to go after them all but in the meantime we should probably not give one group of fascists a free pass - especially based on racial considerations.

4) Interestingly, numerous Rabbis were invited to the conference and attended it giving very interesting speeches on Zionist collaboration with the Nazis in WW2 and perhaps, less contentiously, the openly racist and often illegal activities that underpin the Zionist conception.

Basically it all comes down to one fact: you can have as much free speech as you like as long as we approve it.

The 'we' being the increasingly emasculated 'leaders' (though it is an offence verging on the obscene to anyone who ever really was a leader in any capacity from the Girl Guides or even below, to label them such) whose ability to construct unfeasible lies is matched only by the gullibility of their target audience......

This thread should really have been named: Are the section of the American public who have surrendered all semblance of logical sequential thought the new Stepford Wives?

Someone should then have posted just one word in reply: YES for example.

And a mod should have got in here hotfoot with a clunking big lock and banned us all* for being so stupid or bored to even bother replying.

* Except Mark UK - he is under God's protection by virtue of insanity.

One fact to bring you down to earth: You're nothing but an apologist.
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post #82 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

One fact to bring you down to earth: You're nothing but an apologist.

If you like. Care to address the points I raised anyway?
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post #83 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You're nothing but an apologist.

Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

So what I did was what a lot of Republicans did....as Rush puts it, we were "Carrying water for people that didn't deserve it." That really hits it on the head.
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post #84 of 119
I was just doing my daily ritual of reading the tea-leaves and worshipping the pink astral unicorn in its dance across the heavens, i also watched a load of David Icke videos on youTube - so anyway, my point is, is that unless you seriously mentally ill like me, you probably won't want to read this article about Israel I came across. Ga-ga.

http://www.taroscopes.com/astro-theo...israel%20exist

Also, the only non-biblical reference to a people known as the Israel(ites) claims they were situated where this map shows the city of Avaris - clearly nowhere near the modern state of Israel, and described as a small motley bunch of savages

post #85 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Indeed.

It's amazing what you'll sieze upon as some sort of "evidence" of intellectual dishonesty. I said that I liked what Rush Limbaugh said on the subject, and then quoted him as I felt it summed up the situation well. Conservatives such as myself didn't want the Dems to takover, but we were also displeased with this new brand of Republican that seems to have emerged. The party's loss brought a sense of relief that we no longer had to choose the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Some of us, including me, think that the party's loss may actually be a positive as it may right the course of the party, so to speak. Finally, Rush's comment was intended to address the GOP's lack of adherence to its principles and the inability to articulate those principles in public. It was left to the rank and file party members to carry the message that wasn't being put our by the party's own leaders..hence the phrase "carrying water."

Sorry if that's too complex for you. It's probably easier to just gloat.
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post #86 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

It's amazing what you'll sieze upon as some sort of "evidence" of intellectual dishonesty. I said that I liked what Rush Limbaugh said on the subject, and then quoted him as I felt it summed up the situation well. Conservatives such as myself didn't want the Dems to takover, but we were also displeased with this new brand of Republican that seems to have emerged. The party's loss brought a sense of relief that we no longer had to choose the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Some of us, including me, think that the party's loss may actually be a positive as it may right the course of the party, so to speak. Finally, Rush's comment was intended to address the GOP's lack of adherence to its principles and the inability to articulate those principles in public. It was left to the rank and file party members to carry the message that wasn't being put our by the party's own leaders..hence the phrase "carrying water."

Sorry if that's too complex for you. It's probably easier to just gloat.

Hmmm...still no addressing the issues you seem to be so vehemently sure are incorrect.

Why might this be?

Perhaps you cannot actually dispute the facts because they are irrefutable but because they are unpalatable to the world view that you have been conditioned to you manifest irritation and subsequent diversion?

Or is it because attacking the messenger rather than the message is the sole solution the right-wing mindset can apply to any problem it encounters whether that problem happens to be the facing of uncomfortable facts or confrontation with Nation States or individuals one disagrees with? I suppose violence is the leitmotif of the winger mindset whether it is 'intellectual' (I use the word loosely) or actual.

Or perhaps you don't really care about facts at all and it is merely about 'winning' and 'sides'. I favour this reading - the only use of a fact would be to signal that you need to attack from another angle.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #87 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

If you like. Care to address the points I raised anyway?

You know, I really don't in this case because they all fall under one apologist umbrella. You don't believe Iran poses a threat to Israel and America. Or, you may be so anti-Israel and anti-Bush that you want to see Iran become more powerful and/or the State of Israel destroyed. Through such colored glasses, your point of view will be justified by ANY statement or event.

It's ironic, this view you have. During the lead up to the Iraq war, you ridiculed supporters of invasion because you and others believed the facts at hand and statements by the Bush Administration clearly indicated there were no WMD. Supporters of the invasion were told they were sheep. I mean, if we really listened to what was being said, we'd see that it was all a sham. Now, you're doing the same thing we were accused of.

At this point, Ahmadinejad could say that he will launch an attack on Israel in 10 minutes, and you'd say he's been mistranslated or that he meant something else. After all, what does "attack" mean? Maybe he meant a letter writing campaign. Let's not overreact here, people!

Look at the facts. The Holocaust is an established historical fact, yet he wants to "investigate" it and question it's existence. Why might that be? He has said he wants the Israeli "regime" to collapse...to be wiped off the map. He has openly talked about a world without America and Israel. He is pursuing nuclear power, yet he sits atop one ofthe world's largest oil deposits.

No sane person can look at what's going on and not be extremely concerned that this man may be another Hitler in waiting.
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post #88 of 119
Quote:
At this point, Ahmadinejad could say that he will launch an attack on Israel in 10 minutes, and you'd say he's been mistranslated or that he meant something else. After all, what does "attack" mean? Maybe he meant a letter writing campaign. Let's not overreact here, people!

If you cannot address the actual arguments and all you can do is fabricate bullshit arguments from thin air, why not just shut up and slink away?

Quote:
No sane person can look at what's going on and not be extremely concerned that this man may be another Hitler in waiting.

I can and I am sane.
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post #89 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You know, I really don't in this case because they all fall under one apologist umbrella. You don't believe Iran poses a threat to Israel and America. Or, you may be so anti-Israel and anti-Bush that you want to see Iran become more powerful and/or the State of Israel destroyed. Through such colored glasses, your point of view will be justified by ANY statement or event.

It's ironic, this view you have. During the lead up to the Iraq war, you ridiculed supporters of invasion because you and others believed the facts at hand and statements by the Bush Administration clearly indicated there were no WMD. Supporters of the invasion were told they were sheep. I mean, if we really listened to what was being said, we'd see that it was all a sham. Now, you're doing the same thing we were accused of.

At this point, Ahmadinejad could say that he will launch an attack on Israel in 10 minutes, and you'd say he's been mistranslated or that he meant something else. After all, what does "attack" mean? Maybe he meant a letter writing campaign. Let's not overreact here, people!

Look at the facts. The Holocaust is an established historical fact, yet he wants to "investigate" it and question it's existence. Why might that be? He has said he wants the Israeli "regime" to collapse...to be wiped off the map. He has openly talked about a world without America and Israel. He is pursuing nuclear power, yet he sits atop one ofthe world's largest oil deposits.

No sane person can look at what's going on and not be extremely concerned that this man may be another Hitler in waiting.

I am not saying Ahmedinajad is not a danger or even a racist...he may well be for all I know.

I am not addressing the issue of him, I am addressing the issue of you.

You claimed he said he wants to 'wipe Israel off the map' and it is a fact that he did not say this. Yet you refuse to address this and keep saying it.

Maybe he does want to do that - who knows? I am not saying that he does or doesn't: I am merely saying that the arguments you present to support your views are factually incorrect.

And that this does not seem to bother you.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #90 of 119
Quote:
In terms of importance, the assembly elections eclipse Iran's Presidential elections of 2005. Iran's president Ahmadinejad, despite all his fiery talk and bravado, only holds 10% of power, given to him by the constitution. The supreme leader however, is the most powerful person in all of Iran. He is the person with the last say over Iran's internal and external policies, and its nuclear program.

Assembly Elections: Iran
post #91 of 119
Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -
Iran's claim to need nuclear power may be genuine, given that it could run out of oil to export as soon as eight years from now, according to an analysis published on Tuesday by the National Academy of Sciences.

_nuclear_study_dc
http://www.news.com.au nuclear study
post #92 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Hmmm...still no addressing the issues you seem to be so vehemently sure are incorrect.

Why might this be?

Perhaps you cannot actually dispute the facts because they are irrefutable but because they are unpalatable to the world view that you have been conditioned to you manifest irritation and subsequent diversion?

Or is it because attacking the messenger rather than the message is the sole solution the right-wing mindset can apply to any problem it encounters whether that problem happens to be the facing of uncomfortable facts or confrontation with Nation States or individuals one disagrees with? I suppose violence is the leitmotif of the winger mindset whether it is 'intellectual' (I use the word loosely) or actual.

Or perhaps you don't really care about facts at all and it is merely about 'winning' and 'sides'. I favour this reading - the only use of a fact would be to signal that you need to attack from another angle.

Was that an exceptionally long winded way of accusing me of not specifically laying out the issues in which I disagree with the Republican leadership?
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post #93 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I am not saying Ahmedinajad is not a danger or even a racist...he may well be for all I know.

I am not addressing the issue of him, I am addressing the issue of you.

You claimed he said he wants to 'wipe Israel off the map' and it is a fact that he did not say this. Yet you refuse to address this and keep saying it.

Maybe he does want to do that - who knows? I am not saying that he does or doesn't: I am merely saying that the arguments you present to support your views are factually incorrect.

And that this does not seem to bother you.

What a transparent, bullshit dodge that was. Maybe you should go back and reread what you posted above. It's a litany of reasons that Ahmadinejad is actually a victim.

By the way, he did say it according to wikipedia:

Quote:
On October 23, 2005 Ahmadinejad gave a speech that contained statements against Israel. According to widely published translations, he agreed with a statement he attributed to Ayatollah Khomeini that the "occupying regime" had to be removed, and referred to it as a "disgraceful stain [on] the Islamic world" that must be "wiped off the map".

In context, Khomeni was the one who said it and he was agreeing with it. He said, according to the NYT:

Quote:
Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement.

So not only are you backing away from your litnay of apologies, you're also wrong.
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post #94 of 119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunocrat View Post

Assembly Elections: Iran

Apology #37: He doesn't really have any power.
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post #95 of 119
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Quote:

Ahem....38
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post #96 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Apology #37: He doesn't really have any power.

Which is, of course, analogous to Hitler-- who really didn't have any power.

post #97 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Ahem....38

Rational sane expert analyst: The moon is made of cheese.....

Deranged Lunatic: Then how do you explain the geological rock samples brought back from the moon by the NASA space program?

Rational sane expert analyst: (frothing slightly) hahahah - apology number 65432a......
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post #98 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

What a transparent, bullshit dodge that was. Maybe you should go back and reread what you posted above. It's a litany of reasons that Ahmadinejad is actually a victim.

By the way, he did say it according to wikipedia:

In context, Khomeni was the one who said it and he was agreeing with it. He said, according to the NYT:

So not only are you backing away from your litnay of apologies, you're also wrong.

'According to widely publicized translations' - one could also claim your own views are 'widely publicized' given the amount of times you disseminate the same thing on these boards without variation, adjustment or relation to reality.

That would not however validate these views - nor would it make them any less cock-eyed and ill-informed than they are.

Actually the statement in question is widely publicized because one source - MEMRI - widely publicized it. Unfortunately for you (though you won't see it that way), MEMRI is an Israeli Intel group with a proven track record of lies and distortion.

Khomeini's quote was referring in part to the Shah's regime which he successfully opposed. Ahmedinejad was using this - as well as a Khomeini quote re the possible removal of Saddam's regime - as an example of how it is possible for evil regimes to be removed regardless of how much power they seem to have.

The fact is that there is a difference between wanting a regime 'wiped off the map' and wanting that for a Nation.

I too want Zionism 'wiped off the map'.

I want Neocons 'wiped off the map'.

I want racist fascists 'wiped off the map'.

I want stupidity and commitment to unthinking acceptance 'wiped off the map'.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #99 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Rational sane expert analyst: The moon is made of cheese.....

Deranged Lunatic: Then how do you explain the geological rock samples brought back from the moon by the NASA space program?

Rational sane expert analyst: (frothing slightly) hahahah - apology number 65432a......

Right, that's the same thing. You know what? You're right. Ahmadinejad has no real power. Don't worry about him. Everything will be OK. He doesn't really want to destroy Israel and America. He's just misunderstood. His nuke power plans are only peaceful. No worries, mate!
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post #100 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

'According to widely publicized translations' - one could also claim your own views are 'widely publicized' given the amount of times you disseminate the same thing on these boards without variation, adjustment or relation to reality.

That would not however validate these views - nor would it make them any less cock-eyed and ill-informed than they are.

Actually the statement in question is widely publicized because one source - MEMRI - widely publicized it. Unfortunately for you (though you won't see it that way), MEMRI is an Israeli Intel group with a proven track record of lies and distortion.

Khomeini's quote was referring in part to the Shah's regime which he successfully opposed. Ahmedinejad was using this - as well as a Khomeini quote re the possible removal of Saddam's regime - as an example of how it is possible for evil regimes to be removed regardless of how much power they seem to have.

The fact is that there is a difference between wanting a regime 'wiped off the map' and wanting that for a Nation.

I too want Zionism 'wiped off the map'.

I want Neocons 'wiped off the map'.

I want racist fascists 'wiped off the map'.

I want stupidity and commitment to unthinking acceptance 'wiped off the map'.


There's just no talking to you. Have a nice day.
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post #101 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

There's just no talking to you. Have a nice day.

Funny how you seem to end so many conversations with this?
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post #102 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Funny how you seem to end so many conversations with this?

When it's true, it's true. What can I say? Do you care to chime in on the subject? I'd be interested to hear what you think.
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post #103 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

When it's true, it's true. What can I say? Do you care to chime in on the subject? I'd be interested to hear what you think.



" There's just no talking to you. Have a nice day. "
__________________

Of course the difference here is that I don't use this for everyone I talk to.

Just the ones who really aren't interested in what I say.

However I think it very unlikely we have another Hitler here.
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post #104 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

There's just no talking to you. Have a nice day.

I take it that you have must have heard of MEMRI, and who set it up, how this "translation service" works, and who ultimately benefits?

May I preempt another lower-middle school "conspiracy theorist" accusation, again?
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post #105 of 119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

I take it that you have must have heard of MEMRI, and who set it up, how this "translation service" works, and who ultimately benefits?

May I preempt another lower-middle school "conspiracy theorist" accusation, again?

Oh here we go. Go ahead sammi, tell us all why was just mistranslated and why it's all a conspriracy.
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post #106 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

" There's just no talking to you. Have a nice day. "
__________________

Of course the difference here is that I don't use this for everyone I talk to.

Just the ones who really aren't interested in what I say.

However I think it very unlikely we have another Hitler here.

jimmac, you're not going to flip this around and try to make the topic about my statement. That's not going to happen.

Now, care to support your claim about Ahmadinejad?
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post #107 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh here we go. Go ahead sammi, tell us all why was just mistranslated and why it's all a conspriracy.

Heheh......good to know that as civilization crumbles around are ears some things are entirely reliable and predictable.

Gives you a warm feeling somehow....like the band playing 'Abide With Me' on the deck of the Titanic.
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post #108 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh here we go. Go ahead sammi, tell us all why was just mistranslated and why it's all a conspriracy.

Here.
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post #109 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

jimmac, you're not going to flip this around and try to make the topic about my statement. That's not going to happen.

Now, care to support your claim about Ahmadinejad?

Why? It's been supported already - why do you continue to ignore it? ANd then insanely keep asking for what has been supplied?

The onus is on you to refute the arguments so far put forward. When are you going to to this?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #110 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

jimmac, you're not going to flip this around and try to make the topic about my statement. That's not going to happen.

Now, care to support your claim about Ahmadinejad?

Why not? You've done that same thing plenty of times.

As for your answer Hitler had chrisma at just the right time ( economic depression ). Put that together with the germanic hisory of conquest and shake well. Those same conditions don't really exist in this area. Alot of complex conditions came together to make Hitler what he was.
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post #111 of 119
Hey Sammi Jo, you forgot to post this link on that webpage that addresses the inaccuracies in Whittaker's posting....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/com...778373,00.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Here.
Mark
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post #112 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchiMark View Post

Hey Sammi Jo, you forgot to post this link on that webpage that addresses the inaccuracies in Whittaker's posting....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/com...778373,00.html

I also forgot to post this link

If I said the same thing about, AlManar, or Al Jazeera, for example, you would agree with me, rather than kneejerk about "conspiracy theory"....because it is acceptable to diss an Arabic source, and politically incorrect to question a source that slants reporting in Israel's favor.

Same ol'.... yawn, yawn.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #113 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Why not? You've done that same thing plenty of times.

As for your answer Hitler had chrisma at just the right time ( economic depression ). Put that together with the germanic hisory of conquest and shake well. Those same conditions don't really exist in this area. Alot of complex conditions came together to make Hitler what he was.

What is the "same thing?"

That said, I agree with your second point to an extent. But I'm not really talking about specific personal qualities (though Ahmadinejad is apparently quite charismatic). There are other similarities that are concerning, such as I have laid out.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #114 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Many comparisons have been drawn between 2006's Iran and 1938's Nazi Germany. ...


Are you familiar with the site called Google?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...11&btnG=Search
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post #115 of 119
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post #116 of 119
Thread Starter 
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #117 of 119
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Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No, I don't. You're a fucking wack job.

Yes, you obviously do…
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post #118 of 119
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post #119 of 119
"...

"Bush is like Hitler," Paul Craig Roberts writes in a column entitled The Surge: Political Cover or Escalation?. "He blames defeats on his military commanders, not on his own insane policy."

"Like Hitler, he protects himself from reality with delusion," Roberts continues. "In his last hours, Hitler was ordering non-existent German armies to drive the Russians from Berlin."

... "
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