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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007) - Page 7

post #241 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

uhh the xbox 360 launched in all 3 territories and had limited supply for a long time so it really isn't a straight comparison of demand (kicking ass on either side). the 700k isn't even a definite. also its of importance to realize the ps3 is sitting on floors right now either because their supply is meeting demand or people are just lacking interest. your theory on why consoles may be available is pretty comical to be honest.

anyways, the importance really isn't about launch figures because if the 360 had a million units to sell to the NA market on launch they would have sold all of it. if sony is starting to meet demand at close to a million units right after launch (assuming this is what is going on) then thats a problem.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/06/ps...uy-com-still/- SDW what more do you want from me? u want me to get a best buy representative to give you a ringa ding ding?

A world-wide launch is a strategy that didn't go as planned for Microsoft. It doesn't exempt them from the numbers. And the importance really is about launch figures because "if the 360 had a million units to sell to the NA Market" then we could potentially say they outsold Sony here at launch but they didn't so we can't. For Sony to make up over 550k units after a launch in the short amount of time that they did shows that their manufacturing arm is also in a lot better shape than Microsoft's was. The 360 only sold 850,000 units through January and in February the best case scenario was 300k units supplied to the US a month. The reason you couldn't get an XBOX 360 until March had more to do with supply problems than demand. It wasn't because they were selling like hotcakes it's because they screwed over all their retailers and after the initial Christmas supply could only get out a meager 250,000 units to follow it up, all of which were already promised to preorders. After the preorders were fulfilled the XBOX 360 was also sitting on store shelves and continues to do so. That is not a telling indication of whether they are selling or not. They only hit 6 million sold through September (11 months), meanwhile Sony is planning on 6 million shipped by March(5 months). And with another launch coming in March and a release of highly anticipated games, they are on pace to pull it off.

As for the new XBOX 360, I'm thinking HD/DVD drive replacing the standard DVD drive not going to happen.
post #242 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

As much as it is important to have the right size of display, the right source of view material can play even bigger role. Check out King Kong and Hulk in HD-DVD on 1080p display.... there's no other source material available that can match the jaw dropping PQ, not even from any of BD titles being offered as of now. Some source material is in the class of it's own.... beyond Hi-Def.

Seen both. Yes, nice transfers. Beyond Hi-Def? Not quite unless you have access to some non-consumer gear. No one in 2006 was doing xvYCC or DeepColor even though the PS3 has HDMI 1.3. Resolution isn't everything. That said, I'm looking forward to 1440p (WQXGA)... when you have a 100"+ screen and you like sitting close you need all the resolution you can get. 1440p would be beyond HD...until we get 4K displays and sources at a reasonable price. Note that 1080p is the minimum acceptable viewing environment for real theaters...meaning that properly set up a 1080p home theater is roughly equivalent to sitting in the very worst seat in a theater (the furthest back row) from a resolution and field of view perspective.

Most folks with smaller screens typically sit FURTHER away (as a ratio to screen height) than folks with larger screens. liquidjin is right...for most folks with less than 50" screens the value of 1080p is limited. There was a study by someone that test folks' comfort at various viewing distances with different displays (I think for SMPTE or in one of their journals). For the majority of folks they sat far enough away that the differences between 720p and 1080p would have been minimal.

Vinea
post #243 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Hardly true. 1080i with very dynamic pictures is arguably worse than 720p...which is why ESPN is 720p. 1080p is double the bandwidth and the difference is noticable...at the right viewing distance anyway.

You're ignorning the caveat I included: "As long as a 1080-line display device does half way decent de-interlacing".

To further clarify, I'm talking mainly about movies. A live 1080i video feed of something like a sports event is a bit of a different case, where the interlacing becomes an inherent part of the signal. Frames of movie film have no inherent interlacing. They aren't "progressive" either, but a progressively quickly-filled-in raster of pixels presented to your eye for the proper frame duration comes closer to representing the original frame image than an interlaced presentation.

When you're playing an HD movie, and your HD disc player (either format) is sending out a 1080i signal, the interlacing you get is really nothing more than an annoying artifact added on top of what's basically, behind the scenes, typically a 24 frame-per-second 1080p signal. It's actually very easy to digitally reconstruct the 1080p version of the 1080i signal, and many TVs now do this very well from movie sources. This makes the ability to directly accept a 1080p signal less important than it might seem.

(De-interlacing material that really is inherently interlaced is a trickier matter, and there's much more variability in the quality of how well that job gets done.)
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post #244 of 4651
PS3 Launch outsells PS2, PS1, and XBOX 360 in North America.

PS3 tied with XBOX 360 in world wide launch sales, despite only launching in the US and Japan.

In Japan, PS3 has already sold sold twice as many units in the past month and a half than Microsoft has in the past 14 months.

Things are really going bad for Sony, you know, I really feel bad for them
post #245 of 4651
Bvhe Unveils Unparalleled Blu-ray Disc Release Slate

BUENA VISTA WORLDWIDE HOME ENTERTAINMENT UNVEILS UNPARALLELED BLU-RAY DISC RELEASE SLATE

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/311182.html

Quote:
Cars, Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest, Con Air, King Arthur Directors Cut, Chicken Little, The Rock, Cinderella Man, Face/Off, Crimson Tide, Air Force One, Finding Neverland, G.I. Jane, The Recruit, Open Range, Remember The Titans and Scary Movie 4 among the exciting titles
to be released on Blu-ray Disc

BURBANK, CA, (01/08/07) Buena Vista Worldwide Home Entertainment (BVWHE) today announced the companys most extensive Blu-ray Disc slate yet, with action-packed and family titles due for release throughout 2007 in North America, Europe and Asia. Showing its continued commitment to the next-generation, high-definition format, the company has selected a wide range of titles, many 50GB, to showcase the new Blu-ray Disc format, from blockbusters and Academy Award®-winning masterpieces, to popular animated movies for the entire family. In North America, BVWHE will release titles beginning March 07 to include Chicken Little, King Arthur Directors Cut, Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest, Cars, Con Air, Crimson Tide, The Rock, Finding Neverland, G.I. Jane, The Recruit, Open Range and Remember The Titans. In Europe, titles to be released beginning March 07 will include Eight Below, Chicken Little, Enemy of the State, Flightplan, Gone in Sixty Seconds, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Pearl Harbor, Scary Movie 4, Sky High, The Wild, Dinosaur, King Arthur Directors Cut, Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest, Bruce Almighty, Con Air, Crimson Tide, The Rock, Cars, Air Force One and Finding Neverland. In Asia, titles to be released beginning March 07 will include Chicken Little, Face/Off, King Arthur Directors Cut, The Wild, Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest, Scary Movie 4, Cars, Con Air, Crimson Tide, The Rock and Air Force One. See paragraphs below for complete date listings.
Commenting on the announcement, BVWHE President Bob Chapek stated, Blu-ray is quickly becoming the high-definition standard on the market today and we are very pleased to add this amazing slate of Blu-ray releases that will appeal to our core demographic. With the dual-layer, 50GB discs, the possibilities for exciting new interactive features and additional bonus content are endless.
The company has already had tremendous success with the first generation of Blu-ray Disc titles such as Eight Below and Dinosaur, and is releasing most new titles on the new dual-layer Blu-ray Discs that features a massive storage capacity of 50GB, enabling the highest caliber encodes, expanded bonus material and exciting new interactive features.
As part of its worldwide release strategy BVWHE will release Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest in all territories May 07 and Con Air, Crimson Tide and The Rock in all territories beginning June 07. Cars will also see a worldwide rollout schedule in 2007.
In North America, BVWHE will release Chicken Little and Finding Neverland on March 20; King Arthur Directors Cut and G.I. Jane on April 3; Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest in May; Con Air, Crimson Tide and The Rock on June 8; and Cars, The Recruit and Open Range in Summer 07.
Europe will see its first Blu-ray Disc titles from BVWHE beginning in March with the release of Eight Below, Chicken Little, Enemy of the State, Flightplan, Gone in Sixty Seconds, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Pearl Harbor, Scary Movie 4, Sky High, Finding Neverland and The Wild. Next up are Dinosaur and King Arthur Directors Cut in April; Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest in May; Bruce Almighty, Con Air, Crimson Tide and The Rock in June; and Cars, Air Force One and Reign of Fire in Summer 07.
In Asia, BVWHE will release Face Off in March; Chicken Little and The Wild in April; Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest and Scary Movie 4 in May; and Cars, Con Air, Crimson Tide, The Rock, King Arthur Directors Cut, Air Force One and Starship Troopers in Summer 07.
Blu-ray Disc is the next-generation optical disc format for high-definition video and high-capacity software applications. A single-layer Blu-ray Disc will hold up to 25GB of data, and a double-layer Blu-ray Disc will hold up to 50GB of data. Blu-ray Disc is supported by the world's leading consumer electronics, personal computer and gaming companies, and, with seven of eight Hollywood studios releasing their high-definition content on Blu-ray Disc, Blu-ray will deliver the widest variety of high-definition, home entertainment content.

About Buena Vista Worldwide Home Entertainment
Buena Vista Worldwide Home Entertainment, a recognized leader in the home entertainment industry, is the marketing, sales and distribution company for Walt Disney, Touchstone, Hollywood Pictures, Miramax and Buena Vista DVD, Blu-ray Disc and electronic distribution product. Buena Vista Worldwide Home Entertainment is a division of Disney Enterprises, Inc.

Pixar movies and the Pirates Chain? Ahhhww, I'm sorry HD DVD, you're days are numbered.

A little thunder...a little lighting...
post #246 of 4651
Lionsgate Announces Upcoming Slate of Blu-ray Titles

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070108/lam100.html?.v=61

Quote:
Studio Plans to Have 40 Blu-ray Titles Available by End of 2007
List of Releases Includes Award Winning TV Series WEEDS Along With Theatrical Hits DIRTY DANCING, BASIC INSTINCT and More


SANTA MONICA, Calif., Jan. 8 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Lionsgate (NYSE: LGF - News), the leading independent filmed entertainment company, today announced the studio's upcoming slate of titles on the next-generation high-definition Blu-ray Disc (BD). Headlining the announcement is one of the format's first-ever TV DVD releases as the Golden Globe®- winning and Emmy® Award nominated series WEEDS will be offered in high definition. In addition, Lionsgate will deliver (BD) versions of the top-selling Marvel Animated Series titles ULTIMATE AVENGERS and ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2. The studio will also unveil high definition versions of some of its most popular catalog titles including DIRTY DANCING and BASIC INSTINCT. Further details, including street dates and pricing, will be released at a later date for these and other Blu-ray titles. By end of 2007, the studio will have 40 Blu-ray titles on the market. The announcement was made at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas by Lionsgate President, Steve Beeks.
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An early supporter of Blu-ray and the second studio to release titles on Blu-ray, Lionsgate has showcased to consumers the groundbreaking power of the technology in two of the studio's most recent releases -- THE DESCENT and CRANK (which hits stores on January 9). Both movies were released day and date with standard DVD as dual-layer (BD) 50 GB DVDs, setting the bar for maximizing the capabilities of the format. One of the most critically-acclaimed horror movies of 2006, THE DESCENT was the top-selling high definition release in its first week (December 26 - January 1) and boasted the format's third most successful debut to date. THE DESCENT is the first disc of either format to employ Picture in Picture, taking advantage of the full capacity of the disc, as well as the advanced BD Java Language that allows for seamless branching of multiple video and audio stream. Lionsgate has plans for numerous day and date Blu-ray and standard DVD releases for its theatrical slate throughout 2007 including the upcoming releases of EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH on January 16 and SAW III on January 23.

"There has never been a home entertainment experience available to mass audiences like Blu-ray, and Lionsgate will continue to deliver to consumers our top-line product with sound, audio and extras that are beyond anything they ever could have imagined," said Beeks. "As a company, we have always been at the forefront in utilizing technology to offer consumers the best viewing experience. Blu-ray's technological capabilities take home movie-watching to new levels."


Other upcoming Blu-ray titles from Lionsgate include:
* CRANK (January 9)
* EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH (January 16)
* SAW II and III (January 23)
* AMERICAN PSYCHO (February 6)
* RAMBO FIRST BLOOD (February 6)
* RESERVOIR DOGS (February 6)
* YOUNG GUNS (February 6)
* ULTIMATE AVENGERS and ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2
* WEEDS (TV series)
* HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES
* NATIONAL LAMPOON'S VAN WILDER
* WAITING
* THE DEAD ZONE (TV series)
* REQUIEM FOR A DREAM
* PI
* CABIN FEVER
* MONSTER'S BALL
* DUNE
* BELLY

Lionsgate's support for Blu-ray stems from the format's ability to help propel the home entertainment industry to the next level of performance. The studio has always aggressively supported emerging technologies that maximize value to the consumer. Lionsgate was the first studio release product on DVD-9, DVD-18, DVD+CD, the first to utilize Microsoft Windows Media 9 as well as the first studio after Sony to support the UMD format, and one of the frontrunners in acquiring VOD rights throughout its catalog.

ABOUT BLU-RAY DISC:

The Blu-ray Disc format provides nearly five times more data storage than DVD, with an unprecedented 25 GB (single-layer) and 50 GB (dual-layer) of capacity. Blu-ray Disc players are backward compatible with other disc formats and deliver the highest quality high-definition (HD) entertainment, while providing a secure playback environment through the use of the most advanced copy protection available.

Blu-ray Disc was created to support the accelerating convergence between consumer electronics and information technology. The platform can also support numerous film, music, computer and game applications. Sony Computer Entertainment recently announced plans to utilize BD-ROM technology in their next-generation Playstation 3 system.

Blu-ray is supported by more than 170 leading hardware and software manufacturers, including the leading innovators in the CE and IT industries.

ABOUT LIONSGATE

Lionsgate is the leading independent filmed entertainment studio, winning the 2006 Best Picture Academy Award® for CRASH, generating two consecutive years of $300 million-plus domestic theatrical box office, operating a $500 million-plus home entertainment business and producing a broad slate of prime time television series for fiscal 2007. It is a premier producer and distributor of motion pictures, television programming, home entertainment, family entertainment, and video-on-demand content. Its prestigious and prolific library of more than 10,000 titles is a valuable source of stable, recurring revenue and a foundation for the growth of the Company's core businesses. The Lionsgate brand is synonymous with original, daring, quality entertainment in markets around the world.

Sorry HD DVD fans, no neutrality here! All Blu-ray for Lionsgate.
post #247 of 4651
CES: Fox, MGM Plan 2007 Blu-ray Assault

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...ay_Assault/424

Quote:
CES: Fox, MGM Plan 2007 Blu-ray Assault
Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 02:21 PM ET
Tags: Disc Announcements, Fox, MGM, CES (all tags)

New title announcements continue to pour out of CES, with Fox/MGM announcing an extensive lineup of Blu-ray new release and catalog hits to come throughout 2007.

In advance of the Blu-ray Group's press conference to be held this afternoon at CES, the studios have issued a joint press release detailing their upcoming Blu-ray release plans. Among the many titles due for release this year from Fox include a very balanced, impressive assortment of both blockbuster theatrical hits and catalog favorites: :

More Blu-ray Top Sellers | Blu-ray Pre-Orders List

April 3: 'The Fly (1986),' 'Tristan & Isolde,' 'Me, Myself & Irene,' 'Dude, Where's My Car?'

April 17: 'Turistas'

May: 'Master & Commander,' 'Man on Fire,' 'Edward Scissorhands,' 'Predator,' 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid,' 'The Siege'

June: 'Independence Day,' 'I, Robot,' 'Cast Away'

And from MGM:

April: 'The Silence of the Lambs,' 'Hannibal'

May: 'Platoon,' 'The Graduate,' 'Battle of Britain,' 'A Bridge Too Far'

June: 'Ronin,' 'To Live & Die in L.A.,' 'A Fistful of Dollars,' 'Out of Time,' 'Walking Tall,' 'Bull Durham'

No specs for the above have yet to be unveiled, but according to release, Fox/MGM plans to aggressively support Blu-ray's cutting-edge interactive technology, including BD-Java and the increased storage capacity of 50GB dual-layer discs.

Looks like a very fine lineup for the first half of 2007. We've added all the titles to our Blu-ray Release Schedule, and stay tuned for further news as it is officially announced.

Ohh my, the exclusive Blu-ray titles from all camps involved keeps looking stronger and stronger!
post #248 of 4651
I had to go to Everett this morning to pick up some maps and TourBooks at AAA and in the spirit of research stopped at Best Buy. There was one lone 20GB PS3 on the shelf. It was not part of a bundle. I didn't see any PS3 Bluetooth remotes. There were no Wiis. According to the sales person, BB gets a Sunday Wii shipment and they're gone shortly. I didn't ask how many they receive.

Since this is a Blu-Ray, HD-DVD thread, I'd like to ask Bite or anyone else who cares to answer why people keep throwing Wii lack of availability and sales figures in? Also, which of the HD formats can you play on it?

Regarding the LG universal player, according to a short article in the Seattle Times business section today "while it [LG player] will display the full range of interactive features contained on Blu-ray discs, such as menus that appear while the film is playing, it will not play similar interactive elements contained on HD DVD discs." Is this a serious flaw?

The PS3 apparently doesn't do that good of a job upconverting standard DVDs. According to the buzz on AVSform, most people expect this to be solved in a firmware update, perhaps in March. Will it happen? Who knows.

Also from AVSforum's Blu-Ray board, in a poll of B-R player owners, approximately 2/3 have the PS3 as a player. About 1/3 also have a HD-DVD player. Definitely not the average consumers there.

Going back to this morning, I was really tempted to buy the PS3. I don't play games so it would be strictly as a B-R player. I didn't as I'm still not comfortable with competing formats and the list of titles is still pretty underwhelming. I think the deciding factor was I'm still satisfied with the picture I'm getting from my upconverting DVD player. Besides, with Sony really ramping up PS3 production and the pressure the PS3 must be putting on other makers for a machine to compete at that price point, there should be a lot to choose from in the next 3 - 6 months if I do decide to go that route.
post #249 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

I had to go to Everett this morning to pick up some maps and TourBooks at AAA and in the spirit of research stopped at Best Buy. There was one lone 20GB PS3 on the shelf. It was not part of a bundle. I didn't see any PS3 Bluetooth remotes. There were no Wiis. According to the sales person, BB gets a Sunday Wii shipment and they're gone shortly. I didn't ask how many they receive.

Since this is a Blu-Ray, HD-DVD thread, I'd like to ask Bite or anyone else who cares to answer why people keep throwing Wii lack of availability and sales figures in? Also, which of the HD formats can you play on it?

Regarding the LG universal player, according to a short article in the Seattle Times business section today "while it [LG player] will display the full range of interactive features contained on Blu-ray discs, such as menus that appear while the film is playing, it will not play similar interactive elements contained on HD DVD discs." Is this a serious flaw?

The PS3 apparently doesn't do that good of a job upconverting standard DVDs. According to the buzz on AVSform, most people expect this to be solved in a firmware update, perhaps in March. Will it happen? Who knows.

Also from AVSforum's Blu-Ray board, in a poll of B-R player owners, approximately 2/3 have the PS3 as a player. About 1/3 also have a HD-DVD player. Definitely not the average consumers there.

Going back to this morning, I was really tempted to buy the PS3. I don't play games so it would be strictly as a B-R player. I didn't as I'm still not comfortable with competing formats and the list of titles is still pretty underwhelming. I think the deciding factor was I'm still satisfied with the picture I'm getting from my upconverting DVD player. Besides, with Sony really ramping up PS3 production and the pressure the PS3 must be putting on other makers for a machine to compete at that price point, there should be a lot to choose from in the next 3 - 6 months if I do decide to go that route.



Three new gaming consoles and two new HD formats. So it's the console and/or format "wars." Each console has a price point each console has a feature set, and it would seem that for each console generation there is a "decided" winner in terms of market share, in the last two "wars" PS and PS2 apparently "won."

It's way too early to declare a winner in either "war" but if Wii + Xbox 360 "wins" the console "war" decisively than this may impact Blu-Ray player prices since the "economics of scale" argument isn't as compelling, resulting in much lower HD-DVD player prices versus HD-DVD player prices (or so some would say "in theory").

I would add that on the PS3 front, more game titles are needed ASAP for that console to gain significant traction as a console (but not as a player).

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post #250 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Also from AVSforum's Blu-Ray board, in a poll of B-R player owners, approximately 2/3 have the PS3 as a player. About 1/3 also have a HD-DVD player. Definitely not the average consumers there.

Going back to this morning, I was really tempted to buy the PS3. I don't play games so it would be strictly as a B-R player. I didn't as I'm still not comfortable with competing formats and the list of titles is still pretty underwhelming. I think the deciding factor was I'm still satisfied with the picture I'm getting from my upconverting DVD player. Besides, with Sony really ramping up PS3 production and the pressure the PS3 must be putting on other makers for a machine to compete at that price point, there should be a lot to choose from in the next 3 - 6 months if I do decide to go that route.

I think most people who are interested in dabbling in the HD formats are choosing the consoles over the stand alones just based on the price factor. Check this link out. The numbers seem a little dated but the percentage of consoles/add-ons making up the HD market is astounding.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07004/751258-96.stm

Quote:
About 695,000 consumers own either a Blu-ray or an HD-DVD player, according to Tom Adams of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif. But only about 25,000 have purchased stand-alone Blu-ray players. Another 400,000 consumers have Blu-ray because they bought a Sony PS3 game console. Meanwhile, about 120,000 or so have a stand-alone HD-DVD player while about 150,000 have an HD-DVD upgrade kit for their Xbox 360 game consoles, Mr. Adams says. He adds that those numbers are well in excess of the 300,000 DVD-player sales in 1997, when that technology rolled out.
post #251 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline View Post

You're ignorning the caveat I included: "As long as a 1080-line display device does half way decent de-interlacing".

Yes, you are correct when trying to recreate 1080p/24 from 1080i/60. On the other hand "film-look" is a short way of saying "looks like the way we're used to film looks from the limitations of technology from 50 years ago". 24fps judder on pans is IMHO an aquired taste. Motion blur is also a nice trick but 60+ fps better.

1080p/60 is hopefully the future for both media and "film".

Vinea
post #252 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

1080p/60 is hopefully the future for both media and "film".

As 1080p/60 material is where complete 1080p processing would really shine, I think I've got a little time to put off upgrading my current display to something with a 1080p-capable input -- not much 1080p/60 program material on the horizon really soon.
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post #253 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Since this is a Blu-Ray, HD-DVD thread, I'd like to ask Bite or anyone else who cares to answer why people keep throwing Wii lack of availability and sales figures in? Also, which of the HD formats can you play on it?

my take on this is simple loyalty, if you make a choice to buy a cheaper Wii console then you will buy software for THAT console ONLY... if you are joe public (which of course a lot of people on this and last years thread are not)

so if you buy and STICK to the Wii, you are hardly likely to then invest in the PS3 as it is far more costly... at least until a few years down the line.

as SOME of the posters to this and similar threads point to "WINNING" by arcs of degrees so small its laughable, then they have to factor in the degree to which the Wii sales are robbing Sony of PS3 sales.

at least thats my take on it but i agree the Wii doesnt play blu-Ray HD-DVD or EVEN SD-DVD!!

but its potential to "rob" the PS3 of sales has to be factored in, at least until Sony match or ( for some on this thread) BEAT BY 10 MILLION sales of the 360 or till some HUGE shift that makes it obvious one or the other formats is the winner.

how LGs dual player must confuse some people... when its MENT to lessen confussion for the "ordinary" punter in the street
post #254 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yes, you are correct when trying to recreate 1080p/24 from 1080i/60. On the other hand "film-look" is a short way of saying "looks like the way we're used to film looks from the limitations of technology from 50 years ago". 24fps judder on pans is IMHO an aquired taste. Motion blur is also a nice trick but 60+ fps better.

1080p/60 is hopefully the future for both media and "film".

Vinea

Anyone remember Doug Trumbull's "Showscan"? 70mm film shot and projected at 60fps. He had hoped to turn it into a feature film enhancement, like Cinerama or Dolby sound, but the chicken and egg of content/distribution was too tough a nut to crack. It exists today in special attractions and in "ride films".

If you've ever seen it, the increase in frame rate does something amazing to the perceived solidity of the image. You realize that 24fps is a ton of flicker that you've been trained to ignore. With a well shot print in good condition the film seems to "go away" and open onto an almost 3D vista.

I think the possibility of 4k 60fps electronic cinema is incredibly exciting. Trumball actually shot a Showscan feature-- Natalie Wood's last movie, "Brainstorm" (although apparently only the "brain recording" segments were Showscan, to give a heightened sense of immediacy compared to the "real life" segments)-- maybe the material could be re-mastered and released digitally so we could finally enjoy his breakthrough process.

The usual segmentation of home media and theatrical releases could continue, with us mortals getting to enjoy 1080p in our homes and the 4k stuff luring us out.
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post #255 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Anyone remember Doug Trumbull's "Showscan"? 70mm film shot and projected at 60fps. He had hoped to turn it into a feature film enhancement, like Cinerama or Dolby sound, but the chicken and egg of content/distribution was too tough a nut to crack. It exists today in special attractions and in "ride films".

Yah, the distribution costs for going from 24 fps to 60fps was evidently the killer of that concept...all that extra feet of film going to each theater...

Now its just bits...a whole LOT of bits...but bits none the less. 1080p/60 maybe on BR but not on HD-DVD. At least if my mental arithmetic is correct.

Heh...1080/60 at home and 4K/60 at the theater? For shame...1440/60 at home!

But I'm sure someone will add artificial motion blur and film grain as part of the process for that "film look". I only half acknowledge the suspension of disbelief argument for 24 fps. Its also a trained response...kinda like 4:3 vs 1.85:1 is TV vs movies.

Vinea
post #256 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yah, the distribution costs for going from 24 fps to 60fps was evidently the killer of that concept...all that extra feet of film going to each theater...

Now its just bits...a whole LOT of bits...but bits none the less. 1080p/60 maybe on BR but not on HD-DVD. At least if my mental arithmetic is correct.

Heh...1080/60 at home and 4K/60 at the theater? For shame...1440/60 at home!

But I'm sure someone will add artificial motion blur and film grain as part of the process for that "film look". I only half acknowledge the suspension of disbelief argument for 24 fps. Its also a trained response...kinda like 4:3 vs 1.85:1 is TV vs movies.

Vinea

not quite... 51GB triple layer HD-DVD announced at CES....... not sure when will such storage size would be required for film other than putting on bunch of extra's at this time.... but if 60fps requires it, then it will be ready on HD-DVD.

BTW, some of the 1080i juddler maybe thing of the past for the 1080p display owners once the Hi-Def format players are able to output 1080p24/48/72 rendered directly from the player from 1080p24 source.
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post #257 of 4651
BluRay, HD-DVD...Dead to me in 2007. 720p via iTunes/AppleTV good enough for me for a couple years.

720p projector to 100" screen.

Upgrading to 1080p projector will take a while at my price point and once you have 100+" you can't go back to 50"-70"...

Might still get a 360 but only because of evil nasty Bioware...perhaps I'll just play WoW more until they port Mass Effect to the PC...

Vinea
post #258 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

not quite... 51GB triple layer HD-DVD announced at CES....... not sure when will such storage size would be required for film other than putting on bunch of extra's at this time.... but if 60fps requires it, then it will be ready on HD-DVD.

BTW, some of the 1080i juddler maybe thing of the past for the 1080p display owners once the Hi-Def format players are able to output 1080p24/48/72 rendered directly from the player from 1080p24 source.

Yeah, HD DVD announced that 51GB was attainable, but didn't even have a working prototype, or any prototype for that matter.

TDK however, had a working 200 GB disc prototype though.

So in general 51 GB triple layer discs are vaporware at the current moment and for the foreseeable future until at least a prototype shows up.
post #259 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Yeah, HD DVD announced that 51GB was attainable, but didn't even have a working prototype, or any prototype for that matter.

TDK however, had a working 200 GB disc prototype though.

So in general 51 GB triple layer discs are vaporware at the current moment and for the foreseeable future until at least a prototype shows up.

How dare they..... no prototype to show just for you?....
It has just become part of the official spec of HD-DVD disc and should see actual product coming out soon. HD-DVD's not good at presenting vaporeware..... HD-DVD's not like BD!
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post #260 of 4651
PlayStation 3 Comes up BIG for Blu-ray

http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=6930

Quote:
At the Blu-ray Disc event on Monday, the results of a Sony study as pertains to PlayStation 3 and Blu-ray Disc usage were revealed.


This, of course, has remained a question of much speculation since the release of the PS3 back in November: Will the gamers who flock to Playstation 3 for its games also look to use the console and its integrated Blu-ray Disc player to watch Blu-ray Disc movies?

According to a survey of more than 10,000 PS3 owners, 80 per cent of the respondents planned to purchase Blu-ray Disc movies for use on the PlayStation 3. And over 75 per cent planned to use Blu-ray Disc as a primary movie player.

By extrapolating from those numbers and Sony's assertion that it shipped 1 million PS3 consoles by the end of 2006, the BDA came up with some intriguing projections. If you follow those numbers through – 80 per cent of 1 million – it equals an installed base of 800,000 Blu-ray Disc players, just based on the PlayStation 3 alone.

With numbers like that, notes the Blu-ray Disc Association's Andy Parsons, "Blu-ray Disc represents the safe buy. It's not going to go away any time soon."

Quite telling on a decent survey. With that type of usage, I won't be suprised at the projected 3.5 to 1 buying ratios in favor of Blu-ray by March. We'll have to see though, for sure, but in the meantime it certainly appears Blu-ray has a lot going for it. 8)
post #261 of 4651
CES: No New HD DVD Announcements from Universal

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Universal/429

Quote:
In a rather surprising move, primary HD DVD backer Universal Studios Home Entertainment confirmed today that they will be making no major title announcements at this year's Consumer Electronics Show, despite the formidable presence of all major studios supporting rival format Blu-ray.

Universal, the sole major Hollywood studio to be supporting HD DVD exclusively, was expected to bringing out its big guns for 2007 at CES -- or at least make enough new announcements to dazzle the early adopters who have been passionately backing the format thus far.

But when we contacted Universal to find out if anything further is to come from the studio out of CES, they confirmed they will not be unveiling any new street dates or detailed title info at all for the duration of the show. The studio stressed that they continue to support HD DVD and are planning to announce new titles "throughout 2007."

We must say, it seems like a strange promotional strategy to arrive at CES with nothing to brag about, especially given the highly visible nature of the show in the mainstream media, and that Blu-ray's showing has been quite muscular.

To be fair, a promotional flyer has been issued to the press and is available on the show floor, listing several notable HD DVD titles expected from Universal over the coming year, though many were already bandied about by Universal at last year's CES. Among the hits due in in 2007 are: 'The 40 Year-Old Virgin,' 'American Pie,' Bruce Almighty,' the 2003 remake of 'Dawn of the Dead,' 'Pride & Prejudice,' the original 'The Bourne Identity' and 'Inside Man.'

I think it is obvious that if Universal does as little as go dual support here by supporting Blu-ray, the format war is over. Just found it interesting that HD DVD's primary studio backer didn't come to play...
post #262 of 4651
here's the link to the article:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/l...ss-conference/




HD-DVD titles sold 2X the BD in 2006:


Some figures:

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post #263 of 4651
Ahh, doesn't really matter what total sales were for the year (when you realize that HD DVD had a head start getting to market first), as you get a better idea of the overall picture when you look at market trends, such as the fact that Blu-ray, upon the breakout of the PS3, overtook HD DVD in sales in the month of December. In addition, when you get information like this...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242599,00.html

Quote:
At a Blu-ray event at the CES, Mike Dunn, president worldwide of News Corp.'s (NWS) Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment, said he believed Blu-ray will outsell HD DVD.

By the end of the first quarter of 2007, he projected Blu-ray sales to be three to four times higher than HD's.

"By the end of the first quarter, the format war is over," he said, noting Sony's recently released PlayStation 3 game console with a Blu-ray drive had boosted sales.

"I'm selling 70,000 discs a week. Sales are doubling every week. ... Average PS3 owners buy 6 discs," he said.

Couple this with the fact of the ENORMOUS slate of movies coming out EXCLUSIVELY on Blu-ray, it is pretty clear that Blu-ray will be cleaning house this year. Anyone catch the People's Choice Awards? I just found it interesting that most of the movies that one awards were EXCLUSIVE Blu-ray titles (Pirates, Click, Cars)...

'Pirates,' Depp lead People's Choice Award winners

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...ice-Awards.php
post #264 of 4651
Marzetta7

It's a bit dubious to compare Fox (a BD exclusive) number to Warners (Neutral).

Warner Brother is a far more mature company than Fox which seems to hire the most antagonistic execs I've ever seen. When it comes to class and corporate culture Fox is the little punk to WBs reserved and respectful demeanor IMO.
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post #265 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

PlayStation 3 Comes up BIG for Blu-ray

http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=6930



Quite telling on a decent survey. With that type of usage, I won't be suprised at the projected 3.5 to 1 buying ratios in favor of Blu-ray by March. We'll have to see though, for sure, but in the meantime it certainly appears Blu-ray has a lot going for it. 8)

First, its a study done by Sony, so what do you expect. Lets see some independent research done. Secondly, we no nothing of the methodology. The article doesn't explain who was polled (aside from PS3 users), and doesn't say anything about how the numbers were gathered, etc. If I learned anything in my Prob and Stats class this year, I learned that without more information about this "survey" you can't take these numbers all too seriously. You could say that there are 8,000 PS3 users playing Blu-Ray disks, but you can extrapolate to 800,000 (as the article writer did). Just as I can't go poll 5 friends, ask them if they like coke or pepsi, and when 4 say they like coke, determine that 80% of the population likes coke. Way more information is needed. So take these "figures" with a grain of salt (of the huge variety).

On a side note, I just got the Xbox 360 HD-DVD player, and 5 movies. Circuit city didn't have Serenity in stock, so I am going over to Best Buy later to pick that one up. I have fully jumped into the HD race now, and have picked my horse.
post #266 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

You could say that there are 8,000 PS3 users playing Blu-Ray disks, but you can extrapolate to 800,000 (as the article writer did). Just as I can't go poll 5 friends, ask them if they like coke or pepsi, and when 4 say they like coke, determine that 80% of the population likes coke. Way more information is needed. So take these "figures" with a grain of salt (of the huge variety).

Since in your second sentence you say, "Just as I can't...", I suspect you meant to say in the first sentence, "...but you can't extrapolate to 800,000...". However, I'm a bit confused, since the way you did type is closer to correct than the way I think you meant to type.

If you learned much in your stats class, you should know that 8000 people makes for a damn good sample, provided that sample is sufficient random and/or any biases against being purely random are properly compensated. 8000 well-taken samples extrapolates very, very well to a total population of 800,000.
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post #267 of 4651
What's the point of the TotalHD disc, when they acknowledge that Blu-ray is going to have almost 3 times as many production units at retail over 2007 than HD-DVD, not even including the PS3?
post #268 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

First, its a study done by Sony, so what do you expect. Lets see some independent research done. Secondly, we no nothing of the methodology. The article doesn't explain who was polled (aside from PS3 users), and doesn't say anything about how the numbers were gathered, etc. If I learned anything in my Prob and Stats class this year, I learned that without more information about this "survey" you can't take these numbers all too seriously. You could say that there are 8,000 PS3 users playing Blu-Ray disks, but you can extrapolate to 800,000 (as the article writer did). Just as I can't go poll 5 friends, ask them if they like coke or pepsi, and when 4 say they like coke, determine that 80% of the population likes coke. Way more information is needed. So take these "figures" with a grain of salt (of the huge variety).

On a side note, I just got the Xbox 360 HD-DVD player, and 5 movies. Circuit city didn't have Serenity in stock, so I am going over to Best Buy later to pick that one up. I have fully jumped into the HD race now, and have picked my horse.

I took the poll. It was a poll that Sony emailed to everyone who signed up for a Sony Online account after setting up their PS3. It was not only concerning Blu-ray. Pretty much the standard hardware survey - what other hardware do you own, what do you plan to use this in conjuction with, what features prompted you to purchase the PS3, how many hours a day would you say you spend doing this activity, how about that activity. I wish they would release the results to the question about do you own an HDTV. I'm really curious to know how many people who bought a PS3 actually own an HDTV.
post #269 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline View Post

Since in your second sentence you say, "Just as I can't...", I suspect you meant to say in the first sentence, "...but you can't extrapolate to 800,000...". However, I'm a bit confused, since the way you did type is closer to correct than the way I think you meant to type.

Ya, I meant can't in the first sentence.

Quote:
If you learned much in your stats class, you should know that 8000 people makes for a damn good sample, provided that sample is sufficient random and/or any biases against being purely random are properly compensated. 8000 well-taken samples extrapolates very, very well to a total population of 800,000.

But we don't know how random the sample was, or really anything about it at all (the article is lacking in ANY details at all). Hell, they could have asked 10,000 people on the blu-ray.com forums for all we know. If an independent analyses came out saying that in there surveyed sample they found XX% to play Blu-Ray, I would believe it more than a Sony produced survey. Its just hard for me to believe that 80% of PS3 buyers have a HDTV, let alone are buying Blu-Ray movies (and why would you buy a blu-ray movie, when you can get the DVD for cheaper if you don't have an HDTV?). That seems like an awfully high attachment rate for so early on. But then again, maybe it does make sense (early adaptors would be more likely to buy into a new format). It would be interesting to see the survey done again (by a 3rd party) in 6 months, and see how many are using the PS3 as a movie player then. I bet that 80% figure wont hold.
post #270 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidjin View Post

I took the poll. It was a poll that Sony emailed to everyone who signed up for a Sony Online account after setting up their PS3. It was not only concerning Blu-ray... I wish they would release the results to the question about do you own an HDTV.

I'd really like to know the answer to that last question too. Early adopters are likely to have better toys in general than the general population, but still, poll results like this...

Quote:
According to a survey of more than 10,000 PS3 owners, 80 per cent of the respondents planned to purchase Blu-ray Disc movies for use on the PlayStation 3. And over 75 per cent planned to use Blu-ray Disc as a primary movie player."

...make me wonder about the accuracy of the self-reporting of those surveyed. I sincerely doubt that anywhere near 75-80% of these PS3 owners actually currently own an HD display, or will in the near future. If, say, only 20% have HD displays, what the hell would the remaining 60% do with these Blu-Ray discs they are supposedly claiming that they're planning to buy? Settle for SD resolution for now, and hold on to the discs until they eventually buy an HD display?

I think a lot of people must have been checking off "yes" to some of these questions about Blu-Ray if they even had no more than a slight inkling that they might, just might, buy a movie on Blu-Ray some day.
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post #271 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidjin View Post

I took the poll. It was a poll that Sony emailed to everyone who signed up for a Sony Online account after setting up their PS3. It was not only concerning Blu-ray. Pretty much the standard hardware survey - what other hardware do you own, what do you plan to use this in conjuction with, what features prompted you to purchase the PS3, how many hours a day would you say you spend doing this activity, how about that activity. I wish they would release the results to the question about do you own an HDTV. I'm really curious to know how many people who bought a PS3 actually own an HDTV.

So we already see some bias. Only people who check there email and it didn't get filtered out as SPAM, and only those that signed up for a Sony Online account. Would have been much better to put cards in every PS3 sold, and taken a survey that way (hit your whole audience, rather than a small, select, group of individuals). There are probably people in both camps (those using the PS3 for movies and those who aren't) that didn't get this survey, or declined to state. That would be an interesting figure to know as well...
post #272 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

Its just hard for me to believe that 80% of PS3 buyers have a HDTV, let alone are buying Blu-Ray movies (and why would you buy a blu-ray movie, when you can get the DVD for cheaper if you don't have an HDTV?).

Yes, that's the point that makes me question the validity of this survey more than anything else.
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post #273 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidjin View Post

What's the point of the TotalHD disc, when they acknowledge that Blu-ray is going to have almost 3 times as many production units at retail over 2007 than HD-DVD, not even including the PS3?

Only with projected PS3 #, but since PS3 sales aren't going to reach as high as expected, the projected numbers would be revised. BTW.... what is the attachement figure of PS3 purchase as a sole BD player?... not including the one time buyer who wants to check out BD movies for the first and the last time......but ones who buy PS3 as a sole BD player would buy at least 2 to 3 BD movies/month.
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post #274 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidjin View Post

What's the point of the TotalHD disc, when they acknowledge that Blu-ray is going to have almost 3 times as many production units at retail over 2007 than HD-DVD, not even including the PS3?

Where in the hell did you get these numbers? Warner is including the PS3. There's no way 6.2 million dedicated BD players are getting sold this year. Look at their movie projections and you'll find attachrate for each format. Despite having and estimated 6.2 million BD devices the movie revenue isn't expected to outstrip HD DVD by that much because most of the BD players are PS3
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post #275 of 4651


A sample size that's ~12.5% of the population and a price point of $500/$600 for each PS3 would suggest the survey has some validity, sure there could be some sample bias, but given those numbers (p=0.8 and n=8000) gives a sigma of 0.47% (or six sigma of 2.7%). And given the PS3's price points, and the fact that the PS3 is HD, I find it hard to believe that most of those who bought one don't have a HDTV already (or would purchase one shortly), I meay why buy the PS3 to just play games on a SD TV? Doesn't make much sense to me!

So even if the poll was off by a factor of 2 (IMHO highly unlikely to be anywhere near that much sampling error) versus the actual population that's still 40% of the population that will buy Blu-Ray media.

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post #276 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post

So we already see some bias. Only people who check there email and it didn't get filtered out as SPAM, and only those that signed up for a Sony Online account. Would have been much better to put cards in every PS3 sold, and taken a survey that way (hit your whole audience, rather than a small, select, group of individuals). There are probably people in both camps (those using the PS3 for movies and those who aren't) that didn't get this survey, or declined to state. That would be an interesting figure to know as well...

I think that 80% may be pushing it but at the same time I don't think that it's that far off - remember we are talking about early adopters. This survey was done for them not to brag but to figure out where to focus their manpower. We all know that Sony's online system is a "work in progress", and the only way for them to prioritize what updates get rolled out first is by reaching out to their customers and trying to find where the common ground is.

The online email was a much better way of presenting the survey than a card for countless reasons. The speed, ease of use, integrity of the data, and the number of respondants will most likely be better in all cases.
post #277 of 4651
TDK's Abuse-Resistant 200GB Blu-ray Disc

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7612

Quote:
Hopping on along to the TDK booth, part of the Blu-ray supporters club, and we saw the company highlighting incredible leaps made in Blu-ray disc capacities.

Click on the above image and the top-left disc is a single-sided 200GB prototype. That's right, the potential to store over 40 DVD's worth of data on a single disc. TDK has managed to reach this outlandish mark by increasing the layer count to six and the capacity per layer to 33.3GB, above the usual 25GB associated with Blu-ray media.

It's presently unclear whether current Blu-ray drives will be able to support this disc but that's a moot point for now. The 200GB prototype needs to be passed via the Blu-ray standards body before certification is approved. Whatever the case, at CES 2007 the supporters of Blu-ray have lots more to shout about than their HD DVD counterparts.

You may well be aware of the fact that Blu-ray discs have a much smaller coating layer than incumbent DVD's or HD DVD's 0.6mm. The BD discs shielding is just 0.1mm thick, so media manufacturers have needed to come up with methods to safeguard data. TDK's harde-coating solution is its Durabis 2 technology.



To highlight the effectiveness of the hard-coating technology against the usual scratches and wear subjected to media over time, fine wire wool and a permanent marker were rubbed/applied on to both a standard DVD disc on the left and a Durabis 2-coated disc on the right. As the picture shows, there was no meaningful wear on the TDK BD but the DVD disc was rendered unplayable. Not the most scientific of tests, sure, but an indication that it does indeed work.




Want to know how a four-layer BD is constructed? The above picture indicates the process used by TDK to engineer its 100GB prototype. There's more to it than meets the eye.

Yet another technical advatage for Blu-ray other than higher throughput and storage capacity. Is there still a question? You basically have your HD DVD there (as HD DVD employs the SAME protection as current DVDs) on the left in the picture rendered unplayable while the Blu-ray is still going strong on the right.
post #278 of 4651
Maybe it's a silly question here from this 'ol timer newbie, but since there are now hybrid players available, why couldn't Apple develope and build a hybrid burner into their machines?

Since the competing formats, Blu-ray and HD DVD, each bring something special to the table, why not go with both? It's not like the old days of the VHS vs Beta wars, where the technology was basically the same.

It would be the perfect world, the user would select the format and it's corresponding disk. Burn it, and play it back in either the proper player or a hybrid player.

Seems like Mr. Jobs and his crew of geniuses ought to have the capabilities to accomplish this.
post #279 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyG View Post

Maybe it's a silly question here from this 'ol timer newbie, but since there are now hybrid players available, why couldn't Apple develope and build a hybrid burner into their machines?

Since the competing formats, Blu-ray and HD DVD, each bring something special to the table, why not go with both? It's not like the old days of the VHS vs Beta wars, where the technology was basically the same.

It would be the perfect world, the user would select the format and it's corresponding disk. Burn it, and play it back in either the proper player or a hybrid player.

Seems like Mr. Jobs and his crew of geniuses ought to have the capabilities to accomplish this.

I think they should do that. Probably by years end there will be multiple options for a HD DVD/BD half height drive. Neither format is going anywhere.
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post #280 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Only with projected PS3 #, but since PS3 sales aren't going to reach as high as expected, the projected numbers would be revised. BTW.... what is the attachement figure of PS3 purchase as a sole BD player?... not including the one time buyer who wants to check out BD movies for the first and the last time......but ones who buy PS3 as a sole BD player would buy at least 2 to 3 BD movies/month.



IMHO this would actually be an argument that the Sony poll is under biased towards Blu-Ray movie media purchases. I'm going out on a limb here, since I don't have a clue as to what Sony's online service is all about, but if the online service caters primilarily to gamers, then those not going online may be predominately those who bought the PS3 as a Blu-Ray movie player.

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