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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007) - Page 10

post #361 of 4651
1/16/07 at 3:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer View Post

but the short historic trend was what YOU were going on as well... ??

and i used YOUR numbers and did the math and the math didnt add up to what you were saying..

so whats your problem with that? your math or your formula?



agreed, but its all just pissing in the wind isnt it

as i keep saying, give it about 6 months into 2007 and a clear trend for the PS3 and Blu-Ray players AND the 360 addon will be more apparent. then we will have a clearer picture of what is or is not likely to be the outcome.

we will also know how many studios are pressing porn and on what format.

and we will also know how many exclusive games titles sony are going to let themselves bleed and how much more they can stuff things up.


this thread is already as stale as the 2006 one had got at page 30, its all a pissing contest.

the HD-DVD people only talking to the HD-DVD people and the Blu-Ray only talking to the Blu-ray people... unless its to slag the other off for an opposing view... its really disturbing to read... at least before the formats were released OPINION actually counted for something, in 6 months time OPINION WONT count.

bring it on! cos im bored!

-----

i have no argument with you personally frank, just your maths

Not my problem, it's your limited thinking, look into PDF's/CDF's to get a clue! And read MY posts (particularly my first 2 in last year's thread), if anything I'm in the Blu-Ray camp (purely for SL storage capacity as a burner, for me it's all about storage cost per GB, just like it's currently for SL DVD storage), yeah it's a pissing contest all right and right now you're doing all the PISSING!

And about "my" math, last time I checked X*Y=Z, four keystrokes, that's called a "no brainer." Now why would I do that, the obvious answer, that's a non-statement, so why make it in the first place (i. e. your response to my "Pure speculation here ..." comment)?
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #362 of 4651
1/16/07 at 3:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Not my problem, it's your limited thinking, look into PDF's/CDF's to get a clue! And read MY posts, if anything I'm in the Blu-Ray camp (purely for SL storage capacity as a burner, for me it's all about storage cost per GB, just like it's currently for SL DVD storage), yeah it's a pissing contest all right and right now you're doing all the PISSING!

reactioary and missing the point.... nice!
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post #363 of 4651
1/16/07 at 3:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer View Post

reactioary and missing the point.... nice!

Here's another reactionary comment, make a substantive contribution to this thread, or please don't comment!

Now who missed the point initially, exactly? \
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #364 of 4651
1/16/07 at 5:03am
From the sidelines I'd have to say franksargent did, but like everything else, it's just one opinion/ interpretation of the facts..
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post #365 of 4651
1/16/07 at 5:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

From the sidelines I'd have to say franksargent did, but like everything else, it's just one opinion/ interpretation of the facts..

Was "my math" the point, or was this thread being a "pissing contest" the point, or ....

Ambigious statements don't help!

Now if "my math" was the point, then my point was; Do you look at future trends in a deterministic fashion or in a probabilistic fashion? BTW, that's a rhetorical question.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #366 of 4651
1/16/07 at 7:51am
Yes, I'm in the Blu-ray camp.

However, I'm really not pissing on anything when I'm asking for data that can be backed up. 10.4 Million 360s is all over the place and yet I can't find the numbers to support it. I've tabulated all the NPD data for sales in North America for both consoles since release and things just don't add up at all. The only reason it's an issue and why I was asking if anyone knew where to find the numbers is because we really could be seeing a case of the public not latching on to HD in the numbers that everyone is touting and not by an insignificant percentage either.
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post #367 of 4651
1/16/07 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidjin View Post

Yes, I'm in the Blu-ray camp.

However, I'm really not pissing on anything when I'm asking for data that can be backed up. 10.4 Million 360s is all over the place and yet I can't find the numbers to support it. I've tabulated all the NPD data for sales in North America for both consoles since release and things just don't add up at all. The only reason it's an issue and why I was asking if anyone knew where to find the numbers is because we really could be seeing a case of the public not latching on to HD in the numbers that everyone is touting and not by an insignificant percentage either.

Like I said I got the number from a wiki link;

MS Keynote at CES where Robbie makes the "We've sold 10.4 million consoles in 37 countries." statement at 7:32PM (PST). That's all I know.

And yes, I too believe that a low overall HD adoption rate will lengthen the so called "format war" to the point that it's a moot issue, HD media doesn't gain significant traction to supplant/replace DVD media in the short/medium term. Or there could be no clear winner regardless of the HD adoption rate. Whatever, but I do feel that the HD adoption rate from DVD will be significantly slower than what occured with the DVD transition rate from VHS.
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post #368 of 4651
1/16/07 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Here's another reactionary comment, make a substantive contribution to this thread, or please don't comment!

Now who missed the point initially, exactly? \

look man editing the post AFTER i have commented on it isnt cool.

your math didnt add up to your guess, thats ALL impointing out.

NOTHING personal, ok.

as to substantative contributions??

what quoteing a load of other websites? doing a load of guesswork? cos thats what i see a WHOLE load of here on this thread... from BOTH sides of the format war.

there seem to be very few people with "nothing to loose" bangin on about how "THEIR" choice of format will be this and that and the other.

the bottom line is no-one knows... as i say give it 6 months into 2007 and it MAY be clearer.

you wanna guess or wish then thats fine, i have zero problem with that.

but to back up a wish or guess with math that dont add up...? what you cant let me point that out?

by your estimation of 1 million hardware HD-DVD units sold by years end |M$ would have to sell 75thousand units or more PER month not 50 thousand.

if you have a problem with me correcting you then i think you need to re-read your post and chill a little.

i will make no further comment on this.

but i WILL point out incorrect math.
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post #369 of 4651
1/16/07 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer View Post

look man editing the post AFTER i have commented on it isnt cool.

your math didnt add up to your guess, thats ALL impointing out.

NOTHING personal, ok.

as to substantative contributions??

what quoteing a load of other websites? doing a load of guesswork? cos thats what i see a WHOLE load of here on this thread... from BOTH sides of the format war.

there seem to be very few people with "nothing to loose" bangin on about how "THEIR" choice of format will be this and that and the other.

the bottom line is no-one knows... as i say give it 6 months into 2007 and it MAY be clearer.

you wanna guess or wish then thats fine, i have zero problem with that.

but to back up a wish or guess with math that dont add up...? what you cant let me point that out?

by your estimation of 1 million hardware HD-DVD units sold by years end |M$ would have to sell 75thousand units or more PER month not 50 thousand.

if you have a problem with me correcting you then i think you need to re-read your post and chill a little.

i will make no further comment on this.

but i WILL point out incorrect math.

Are you as dense as you appear to be in your posts? And I'm being serious here!

There were no math errors. Period, Get over it! Geez, I must be talking to a 5-year old, Really!

Like I said, look up probability theory, forecasting, then you might have a clue. Really!

Deterministic modelling or probabilistic modelling, I'm just doing what anyone else does in the forecasting business.

And TIA for not responding to this post!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #370 of 4651
1/16/07 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Like I said I got the number from a wiki link;

MS Keynote at CES where Robbie makes the "We've sold 10.4 million consoles in 37 countries." statement at 7:32PM (PST). That's all I know.

And yes, I too believe that a low overall HD adoption rate will lengthen the so called "format war" to the point that it's a moot issue, HD media doesn't gain significant traction to supplant/replace DVD media in the short/medium term. Or there could be no clear winner regardless of the HD adoption rate. Whatever, but I do feel that the HD adoption rate from DVD will be significantly slower than what occured with the DVD transition rate from VHS.

Yes, and we all know how Robbie and other Microshafties love to have a slip of the tongue as many other news outlets stated "shipped..."

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156243

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...mktNews&rpc=44

http://news.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/0,3...9285928,00.htm

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/13/mi...llion_xbox360/

All I'm stating here is that Microsoft and its supporters keep spewing this 10.4 million number when in reality the number of ACTUAL SALES TO THE CONSUMER, is most likely a lot less. Furthermore, if we are to put crediblility in this 10.4 million number then we ought to put crediblility in the PS3s 2 million number in 2 months,...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/16470048.htm

At this rate, Sony will "sell" (but more accurately ship) in excess 12 million consoles by the end of the year. 12 million Blu-ray players in homes, can't say the same penetration can come even close for HD DVD with 50,000 or so add-ons being sold (or shipped?) each month. There is a reason for add-ons being historically failures, people don't naturally just go and get them when they've already plunked down $400 on a game console in the 360.

Who knows for sure what actual sales are really though, time will tell the tale.
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post #371 of 4651
1/16/07 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Are you as dense as you appear to be in your posts? And I'm being serious here!

There were no math errors. Period, Get over it! Geez, I must be talking to a 5-year old, Really!

Like I said, look up probability theory, forecasting, then you might have a clue. Really!

Deterministic modelling or probabilistic modelling, I'm just doing what anyone else does in the forecasting business.

And TIA for not responding to this post!

thanks for the personal insults
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post #372 of 4651
1/16/07 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Yes, and we all know how Robbie and other Microshafties love to have a slip of the tongue as many other news outlets stated "shipped..."

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156243

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...mktNews&rpc=44

http://news.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/0,3...9285928,00.htm

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/13/mi...llion_xbox360/

All I'm stating here is that Microsoft and its supporters keep spewing this 10.4 million number when in reality the number of ACTUAL SALES TO THE CONSUMER, is most likely a lot less. Furthermore, if we are to put crediblility in this 10.4 million number then we ought to put crediblility in the PS3s 2 million number in 2 months,...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/16470048.htm

At this rate, Sony will "sell" (but more accurately ship) in excess 12 million consoles by the end of the year. 12 million Blu-ray players in homes, can't say the same penetration can come even close for HD DVD with 50,000 or so add-ons being sold (or shipped?) each month. There is a reason for add-ons being historically failures, people don't naturally just go and get them when they've already plunked down $400 on a game console in the 360.

Who knows for sure what actual sales are really though, time will tell the tale.

I have no idea what the actual number of shipped units MS has been versus the number in people's homes. My ONLY point was shipped units, I don't trust market estimates with a high degree of confidence. Sales figures from HD media sales would be the most accurate. Any yes I'm sure Sony will sell alot of PS3's, I never said they wouldn't.

But perhaps that's one point I'd like to make about the Xbox HD-DVD add-on, this is a "format war" and what MS might do to push their chosen format? Perhaps lower the price to ~$150 or ~$100 even, just to move product? It would depend on how desperate they get and/or how well the add-on is selling. How many Blu-Ray titles versus HD-DVD titles are out there. A whole host of factors, but I'll bet you that MS has a target for add-ons this year, and some incentives to meet that target. That is all.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #373 of 4651
1/16/07 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer View Post

thanks for the personal insults

Your VERY welcome!

BTW, 1,000,000 divided by 12 = 83,333 and a third NOT 75K!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #374 of 4651
1/16/07 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I have no idea what the actual number of shipped units MS has been versus the number in people's homes. My ONLY point was shipped units, I don't trust market estimates with a high degree of confidence. Sales figures from HD media sales would be the most accurate. Any yes I'm sure Sony will sell alot of PS3's, I never said they wouldn't.

But perhaps that's one point I'd like to make about the Xbox HD-DVD add-on, this is a "format war" and what MS might do to push their chosen format? Perhaps lower the price to ~$150 or ~$100 even, just to move product? It would depend on how desperate they get and/or how well the add-on is selling. How many Blu-Ray titles versus HD-DVD titles are out there. A whole host of factors, but I'll bet you that MS has a target for add-ons this year, and some incentives to meet that target. That is all.

Fair enough. However, if we see any drop in price of the HD DVD add-on, you can pretty much guarantee that Sony will lower the price of the PS3 to counter, still solidifying the convenience of a next gen drive being built in rather than being an add-on.

Also, currently the number of Blu-ray vs HD DVD titles is about 137 to 154 respectively...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/15...ary-16th-2007/

However, if you take a look at what is to be released in the coming months, it is quite easy to see Blu-ray will be pulling Far...Far Away [insert Shrek accent here] by March...

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=4626

Quote:
Disney/Buena Vista (US)

Ladder 49 (2/13)
Reign of Fire (2/13)
The Prestige (2/20)
Chicken Little (3/20)
Finding Neverland (3/20)
King Arthur: Director's Cut (4/3)
G.I. Jane (4/3)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (May)
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (May)
Con Air (6/8)
Crimson Tide (6/8)
The Rock (6/8)
Cars (Summer)
The Recruit (Summer)
Open Range (Summer)
Remember the Titans (Fall)

Disney/Buena Vista (Europe)

Eight Below (March)
Chicken Little (March)
Enemy of the State (March)
Flightplan (March)
Gone in Sixty Seconds (March)
The Guardian (March)
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (March)
Pearl Harbor (March)
Scary Movie 4 (March)
Sky High (March)
Finding Neverland (March)
The Wild (March)
Dinosaur (April)
King Arthur: Director's Cut (April)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (May)
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (May)
Bruce Almighty (June)
Con Air (June)
Crimson Tide (June)
The Rock (June)
Cars (June)
Air Force One (Summer)
Reign of Fire (Summer)
Wild Hogs (Summer).

Disney/Buena Vista (Asia)

Face/Off (March)
Chicken Little (April)
The Wild (April)
Scary Movie 4 (May)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (May)
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (May)
The Guardian (June)
Cars (Summer)
Con Air (Summer)
Crimson Tide (Summer)
The Rock (Summer)
King Arthur: Director's Cut (Summer)
Air Force One (Summer)
Starship Troopers (Summer)

Fox (US)

Alien Vs Predator (1/23)
Men of Honor (1/23)
Courage Under Fire (1/23)
The Sentinel (2/13)
Entrapment (2/13)
Broken Arrow (2/13)
Phone Booth (2/13)
Planet of the Apes (2001) (2/13)
Chain Reaction (2/13)
The Marine (2/13)
Ice Age (3/13)
Dodgeball (3/13)
Commando (3/13)
From Hell (3/13)
The Fly (1986) (4/3)
Tristan & Isolde (4/3)
Me, Myself & Irene (4/3)
Dude, Where's My Car? (4/3)
Turistas (4/17)
Master & Commander (May)
Man on Fire (May)
Edward Scissorhands (May)
Predator (May)
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (May)
The Siege (May)
Independence Day (June)
I, Robot (June)
Cast Away (June)
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (Q4)
24 Season 1 (TBA)
Prison Break Season 1 (TBA)

Lionsgate (US)

Crank (1/9)
Employee of the Month (1/16)
SAW II (1/23)
SAW III (1/23)
American Psycho (2/6)
First Blood (2/6)
Reservoir Dogs (2/6)
Young Guns (2/6)
Ultimate Avengers (TBA)
Ultimate Avengers 2 (TBA)
Weeds (TV series/Showtime) (TBA)
House of 1000 Corpes (TBA)
National Lampoon's Van Wilder (TBA)
Waiting (TBA)
The Dead Zone (TV series) (TBA)
Requiem for a Dream (TBA)
PI (TBA)
Cabin Fever (TBA)
Monster's Ball (TBA)
Dune (miniseries) (TBA)
Belly (TBA)
Dirty Dancing (TBA)
Basic Instinct (TBA)

MGM (US)

Flyboys (1/30)
Hart's War (1/30)
The Usual Suspects (2/13)
Dances with Wolves (3/13)
The Thomas Crown Affair (3/13)
Hoosiers (3/13)
The Silence of the Lambs (April)
Hannibal (April)
Platoon (May)
The Graduate (May)
Battle of Britain (May)
A Bridge Too Far (May)
Ronin (June)
To Live & Die in L.A. (June)
A Fistful of Dollars (June)
Out of Time (June)
Walking Tall (June)
Bull Durham (June)

Paramount (US)

Babel (2/20)
Flags of Our Fathers (TBA)
Payback (TBA)
Face/Off (TBA)

Sony (US)

Gridiron Gang (1/16)
Resident Evil: The Apocalypse (1/16)
Open Season (1/30)
Running With Scissors (2/6)
The Tailor of Panama (2/6)
Vertical Limit (2/20)
Stranger Than Fiction (2/27)
Casino Royale (3/13)
Layer Cake (3/13)
A Few Good Men (TBA)
Hostel (TBA)
Jerry McGuire (TBA)

Warner (US)

Goodfellas (1/16)
Beerfest (1/30)
The Wicker Man (1/30)
The Departed (2/13)
Alexander Revisited: The Unrated Final Cut (2/27)
Blood Diamond (TBA)
Bullitt (TBA)
The Dirty Dozen (TBA)
Enter the Dragon (TBA)
The Getaway (1972) (TBA)
Happy Feet (TBA)
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (TBA)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (TBA)
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (TBA)
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (TBA)
The Matrix (TBA)
The Matrix Reloaded (TBA)
The Matrix Revolutions (TBA)
Oceans 11 (TBA)
Oceans 12 (TBA)
We Are Marshall (TBA)
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post #375 of 4651
1/16/07 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Fair enough. However, if we see any drop in price of the HD DVD add-on, you can pretty much guarantee that Sony will lower the price of the PS3 to counter, still solidifying the convenience of a next gen drive being built in rather than being an add-on.

Also, currently the number of Blu-ray vs HD DVD titles is about 137 to 154 respectively...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/15...ary-16th-2007/

However, if you take a look at what is to be released in the coming months, it is quite easy to see Blu-ray will be pulling Far...Far Away [insert Shrek accent here] by March...

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=4626

marzetta7,

I don't disagree with you one bit, heck I'd LOVE a price war, we the consumer win that war!

And yes to the Blu-Ray releases versus HD-DVD releases, that will fall in Blu-Ray's favor, IMHO.

But IMHO the best way for HD-DVD to fight back is to lower their player prices, and that's what I think they'll do.

I like Blu-Ray as a storage medium, and I think the best price point will be in SL HD media as it is with SL DVD blanks once they start to ship in volume, and there Blu-Ray has a decided advantage 25GB versus 15GB.

I don't much care for HD players and media at this point in time, but I realize that which format gains an advantage in HD player/ROM media sales will to a large degree dictate burner/blank media unit prices ($/GB).
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #376 of 4651
1/16/07 at 11:35am
merz is the typical sony guy, he keeps posting about things that are GOING to happen, things that are GOING to be released, but never anything about the NOW.

its typical sony. talk about what is coming out 2 years from now lmao, like they did by showing off a trailer for the new final fantasy game in japan that isn't coming out for another 24 or so months.

look at the "potential" they say, constantly we hear about it but people for the most part are starting to catch on...

they promise promise promise but then never deliver.
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post #377 of 4651
1/16/07 at 11:41am
While I'm on the subject of factual information, does anyone have any links to the number of HDTVs that are in peoples' homes or at least an estimate? I've been seeing tons of articles quoting NPD numbers but then those numbers are different from each other. The most consistent thing I have found is that in Novemeber and December 2005, 1.4 million units were sold. From the same time period though this holiday season Microsoft's 360 sold 4.5 million units, and Sony's PS3 sold almost 700k, it seems to me that the consoles are outselling or are very close to outselling the HDTVs that should be prerequisites for their purchase.
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post #378 of 4651
1/16/07 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidjin View Post

While I'm on the subject of factual information, does anyone have any links to the number of HDTVs that are in peoples' homes or at least an estimate? I've been seeing tons of articles quoting NPD numbers but then those numbers are different from each other. The most consistent thing I have found is that in Novemeber and December 2005, 1.4 million units were sold. From the same time period though this holiday season Microsoft's 360 sold 4.5 million units, and Sony's PS3 sold almost 700k, it seems to me that the consoles are outselling or are very close to outselling the HDTVs that should be prerequisites for their purchase.

Well... I don't have any figures on the HDTV's, but one of the big movement you can see for yourself is that when you go to most Costco, TV section is the only sectiong growing and all you see there is HDTV's at very affordable prices... Many DLP's over 55" is less than $2k. Some of them even goes near $1k mark. I'm not saying that everyone will go out and buy HDTV's this year, but when anyone is looking into getting a new TV, it will most definitely will be a HDTV. I'm not sure how big the TV consumer market is, but HDTV will definitely out sell SDTV this year in 25+ " category, and this is my conjecture only.(Educated one at that)
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post #379 of 4651
1/16/07 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Was "my math" the point, or was this thread being a "pissing contest" the point, or ....

Ambigious statements don't help!

Now if "my math" was the point, then my point was; Do you look at future trends in a deterministic fashion or in a probabilistic fashion? BTW, that's a rhetorical question.

The point was that he was trying to take the pissing contest aspect out of the convo and steer us back to more civil discussion. You ran the opposite direction with it. Just remember, winning an argument on the internet is like winning a gold medal in the special olympics. Yes, you win, but you're still retarded.
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post #380 of 4651
1/16/07 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Well... I don't have any figures on the HDTV's, but one of the big movement you can see for yourself is that when you go to most Costco, TV section is the only sectiong growing and all you see there is HDTV's at very affordable prices... Many DLP's over 55" is less than $2k. Some of them even goes near $1k mark. I'm not saying that everyone will go out and buy HDTV's this year, but when anyone is looking into getting a new TV, it will most definitely will be a HDTV. I'm not sure how big the TV consumer market is, but HDTV will definitely out sell SDTV this year in 25+ " category, and this is my conjecture only.(Educated one at that)

I think the BIG selling points of HDTV's are it's screen size and their price points, as you mentioned. The 30" to 50" screen sizes are very price competitive, certainly WRT 36" CRT's. So one would naturally think that most, if not all, new TV purchases are HDTV's in that size range.

OTOH, below 28" (or so) CRT's are really cheap, and if your just into DVD viewing, and don't care about screen size or are price conscious, you'll probably just get the cheap CRT. And then of course the segment of the population that won't replace their existing CRT until it goes out, and even then you can get a cheap CRT in the want ads or a pawn shop, considering the number of people who have upgraded their CRT's to HDTV's. As we head towards February 2009, I would almost think that used CRT's will be a dime a dozen, so there will always be a market segment that will prefer cheap above all else.

And that's why it took so long for DVD's to catch on, J6P'ers made do with what thay had until it gave out or got really cheap. Most people that post in these threads aren't J6P'ers IMHO.
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #381 of 4651
1/16/07 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

The point was that he was trying to take the pissing contest aspect out of the convo and steer us back to more civil discussion. You ran the opposite direction with it. Just remember, winning an argument on the internet is like winning a gold medal in the special olympics. Yes, you win, but you're still retarded.

I didn't get into the whole "math challenged" aspect with my speculative post, the other person did, taking a set of numbers (their numbers BTW not mine) too literally assuming that was the only answer, and offered up such numbers as PROVING the future.

And quite frankly in a taunting sort of way. And if you've read any of my posts in this thread (except for the first 2-3 sardonic ones in last year's thread) I've always tried to maintain as even a hand in my posts given my own personal bias towards Blu-Ray.

Signed,
The Tard
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post #382 of 4651
1/16/07 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I think the BIG selling points of HDTV's are it's screen size and their price points, as you mentioned. The 30" to 50" screen sizes are very price competitive, certainly WRT 36" CRT's. So one would naturally think that most, if not all, new TV purchases are HDTV's in that size range.

OTOH, below 28" (or so) CRT's are really cheap, and if your just into DVD viewing, and don't care about screen size or are price conscious, you'll probably just get the cheap CRT. And then of course the segment of the population that won't replace their existing CRT until it goes out, and even then you can get a cheap CRT in the want ads or a pawn shop, considering the number of people who have upgraded their CRT's to HDTV's. As we head towards February 2009, I would almost think that used CRT's will be a dime a dozen, so there will always be a market segment that will prefer cheap above all else.

And that's why it took so long for DVD's to catch on, J6P'ers made do with what thay had until it gave out. Most people that post in these threads aren't J6P'ers IMHO.

OTOH, go to a Best Buy and try to even find a CRT set. Last time I checked there were a few open stocks sets in the open stock ghetto, and a few wide screen HDs from Samsung and Toshiba, and I think a few small DVD/combo sets. On line shows more options, but the brick and mortar stores seem to have decided they're done.

Thing is, manufacturers are stopping production of CRTs. Another year and you'll really have to be determined to be able to get one.

And I think you overestimate the average American's willingness to go pawn shop or thrift store hunting when it comes to getting something like a TV. I can already get a 20" EDT LCD set for $300, while some of the remaining 20" CRTs are $175. Granted, the $175 set is probably better in many respects, but that's too close in price for CRT sales to do anything but continue to plummet-- and it's only going to get closer, since all the commodity savings were long since wrung out of the tube business.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #383 of 4651
1/16/07 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

However, if you take a look at what is to be released in the coming months, it is quite easy to see Blu-ray will be pulling Far...Far Away [insert Shrek accent here] by March...

It's all a matter of personal taste, I know, but on that entire list (leaving Warners and Paramount aside) there are exactly TWO new releases that I would buy, and two catalog titles I'd upgrade from my SD DVDs. And one of those is available on HD DVD from Japan. In other words, nothing on that list makes me itch for a Blu-ray player. Wake me up when Fox releases "X-Men."
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post #384 of 4651
1/16/07 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

OTOH, go to a Best Buy and try to even find a CRT set. Last time I checked there were a few open stocks sets in the open stock ghetto, and a few wide screen HDs from Samsung and Toshiba, and I think a few small DVD/combo sets. On line shows more options, but the brick and mortar stores seem to have decided they're done.

Thing is, manufacturers are stopping production of CRTs. Another year and you'll really have to be determined to be able to get one.

And I think you overestimate the average American's willingness to go pawn shop or thrift store hunting when it comes to getting something like a TV. I can already get a 20" EDT LCD set for $300, while some of the remaining 20" CRTs are $175. Granted, the $175 set is probably better in many respects, but that's too close in price for CRT sales to do anything but continue to plummet-- and it's only going to get closer, since all the commodity savings were long since wrung out of the tube business.

I take it you've never been to the "ghetto" or lived in a trailer park, or perhaps been to a Wal-Mart lately (they still have a large selection of CRT's)? I hate to admit it, but a lot of my friends are from the "ghetto" and/or live in trailer parks, I even have a pawn shop CRT TV, imagine that, so in my delusional view of life, perhaps I think I'm more representative of J6P'ers then the rest of you people, but I'm just taking a stab in the dark.

And that 20" pawn shop Toshiba TV cost me ~$70 and there were cheaper ones to choose from, and it still works 2 years later. I have replaced it with an HDTV, but the funny thing is the cable reception looked better on that CRT than what I see now on that HDTV, what's up with that?
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post #385 of 4651
1/16/07 at 4:51pm
Why porn will not be the deciding factor this time around:

Digital Bits


Porn decided the VHS vs. Betamax format war, so it'll decide the HD format war too." is the typical comment. Here's why I doubt it: Back in the days of the VHS vs. Beta format war, the only way to watch porn was to visit a seedy adult movie theater or to spool up a Super-8 film. So when cheap, convenient porn on tape finally arrived, it was a HUGE deal, demand was massive and it benefited VHS greatly. The difference today is, cheap porn is already available EVERYWHERE on the Internet and particularly on good old standard DVD. Also, have any of you actually seen naked people in high-definition? Let me tell you, it's often a much better idea in theory than in reality. Porn stars may look sexy as all get out in standard definition, but... well, maybe not so much in HD. You can't hide those plastic surgery scars, stretch marks and ass-pimples in high-def. I'm just saying. Bottom line: Porn companies backing HD-DVD is not insignificant, but I doubt very much that porn will decide this format war.

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     197619842013  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

MacBook Pro Retina, 13", 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD

iPhone 5 • iPad 4 • CR48 Chromebook • ThinkPad X220

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post #386 of 4651
1/16/07 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post


And that 20" pawn shop Toshiba TV cost me ~$70 and there were cheaper ones to choose from, and it still works 2 years later. I have replaced it with an HDTV, but the funny thing is the cable reception looked better on that CRT than what I see now on that HDTV, what's up with that?

Because you also need to upgrade to HD Cable... it never ends. Actually, if you're getting a good clean SD signal and if your HDTV has a decent scaler, it should look comparable to if you were to watch it on SD/ED TV. Just like when you play good SD-DVD and send 480i/p to HDTV, it actually looks pretty good. Well... most of the recent HDTV will have a decent scaler build-in and everyone should get a decent PQ out of SD being upscale from the HDTV.... if not, change your cableTV company.
always a newbie
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always a newbie
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post #387 of 4651
1/16/07 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

Well... I don't have any figures on the HDTV's, but one of the big movement you can see for yourself is that when you go to most Costco, TV section is the only sectiong growing and all you see there is HDTV's at very affordable prices... Many DLP's over 55" is less than $2k. Some of them even goes near $1k mark. I'm not saying that everyone will go out and buy HDTV's this year, but when anyone is looking into getting a new TV, it will most definitely will be a HDTV. I'm not sure how big the TV consumer market is, but HDTV will definitely out sell SDTV this year in 25+ " category, and this is my conjecture only.(Educated one at that)

There is no doubt in my mind that HDTVs are growing and are poised to take over all new television sales. What I was getting at is that a lot of the people buying these consoles can't possibly own an HDTV. Which
puts this war in a somewhat different context than VHS vs. Betamax or even DVD's entry into our homes. HD-DVD is selling directly to HDTV owners. However Blu-ray is selling to both current HDTV owners and future HDTV owners through the PS3. They are building brand recognition as well as a niche market that HD-DVD can't possibly touch - HD media consumers that don't have an HDTV.

Will a PS3/Non-HDTV owner rent Blu-ray movies over DVDs? After investing $500-$600 on a game machine I'm almost convinced that this is a given if the movie is on Blu-ray.

Will a PS3/Non-HDTV owner purchase Blu-ray movies over DVDs? If there are more features included on the Blu-ray version I'm thinking this is also a justified purchase.

The hybrid option HD-DVD when/if available as an HD-DVD standard might get a few people that fall into this category but now they're the ones trying to come from behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post

Why porn will not be the deciding factor this time around:

Digital Bits


Porn decided the VHS vs. Betamax format war, so it'll decide the HD format war too." is the typical comment. Here's why I doubt it: Back in the days of the VHS vs. Beta format war, the only way to watch porn was to visit a seedy adult movie theater or to spool up a Super-8 film. So when cheap, convenient porn on tape finally arrived, it was a HUGE deal, demand was massive and it benefited VHS greatly. The difference today is, cheap porn is already available EVERYWHERE on the Internet and particularly on good old standard DVD. Also, have any of you actually seen naked people in high-definition? Let me tell you, it's often a much better idea in theory than in reality. Porn stars may look sexy as all get out in standard definition, but... well, maybe not so much in HD. You can't hide those plastic surgery scars, stretch marks and ass-pimples in high-def. I'm just saying. Bottom line: Porn companies backing HD-DVD is not insignificant, but I doubt very much that porn will decide this format war.


I think HD is going to make Porn get better looking just like it will for TV and movies. Not right out the gate but they'll have to adapt just like everyone else. When people can't hide strictly under makeup or lighting they'll have to do something else or they'll have to put naturally better looking women in front of the camera. Porn on the Internet has no standards. The market is so saturated with tasteless crap that there probably already is a demand for something a cut above the rest. Not to mention, that they would probably find the stricter copy protection an added bonus considering piracy probably hurts them more than any other industry.
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post #388 of 4651
1/16/07 at 6:52pm
Um this thread is titled 2007, and it's already 10 pages, I would really REALLY hate to see how long it will be by the end of 2007...

Hasn't this already been decided anyways? HD DVD already has it's first pirated movie and I believe the Porn Industry is backing it now, according to CNET's Podcast (Buzz Out Loud) anyways.

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #389 of 4651
1/16/07 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Because you also need to upgrade to HD Cable... it never ends. Actually, if you're getting a good clean SD signal and if your HDTV has a decent scaler, it should look comparable to if you were to watch it on SD/ED TV. Just like when you play good SD-DVD and send 480i/p to HDTV, it actually looks pretty good. Well... most of the recent HDTV will have a decent scaler build-in and everyone should get a decent PQ out of SD being upscale from the HDTV.... if not, change your cableTV company.

You would not believe my cable company, what a bunch of n00bs! But I am also partially to blame for not asking in the first place, and my previous extensive experience with these cable n00bs. I should have learned my lesson.

But basically, you are correct I need a digital set top box, with digital outputs. It was stated as being a digital set top box (perhaps the innards are) but had no digital outputs from the set top box to go into my HDTV. Go figure, I walk in don't tell them what I have, and they don't ask me what I have, so they give me the "digital" set top box (with no VGA, no S-video, no HDMI, no compontents, just coax).

Anyway, I called them today, and after giving a lengthy explination, thay said, "Oh, you want the digital set top box, not the "digital" set top box.

Oh well, slow of the mark on this one, but I'll see how it looks with the new box.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #390 of 4651
1/16/07 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Um this thread is titled 2007, and it's already 10 pages, I would really REALLY hate to see how long it will be by the end of 2007...

Hasn't this already been decided anyways? HD DVD already has it's first pirated movie and I believe the Porn Industry is backing it now, according to CNET's Podcast (Buzz Out Loud) anyways.

Sebastian

10 pages of which you've read NOTHING!!!

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post #391 of 4651
1/16/07 at 8:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Um this thread is titled 2007, and it's already 10 pages, I would really REALLY hate to see how long it will be by the end of 2007...

We're easily on track to beat the 2006 thread that had only a page a week, since the battle will almost certainly heat up this year. Believe it or not, a few people complained that they wanted to continue in the old thread instead of starting this one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidjin View Post

I think HD is going to make Porn get better looking just like it will for TV and movies. Not right out the gate but they'll have to adapt just like everyone else. When people can't hide strictly under makeup or lighting they'll have to do something else or they'll have to put naturally better looking women in front of the camera. Porn on the Internet has no standards. The market is so saturated with tasteless crap that there probably already is a demand for something a cut above the rest. Not to mention, that they would probably find the stricter copy protection an added bonus considering piracy probably hurts them more than any other industry.

You're kidding, right? Porn has never been renowned for the quality of its productions. From scripts to lighting to camerawork and especially to acting, it's always been second-rate, done by people who aren't good enough to get jobs in the regular industry. They don't have the expertise, budget or time to do anything better. And the fact is, they won't have to. People will continue to buy them no matter how badly lit and filmed they are, because guys just want to see naked women and lots of silicone.
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post #392 of 4651
1/16/07 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

marzetta7,

I don't disagree with you one bit, heck I'd LOVE a price war, we the consumer win that war!

And yes to the Blu-Ray releases versus HD-DVD releases, that will fall in Blu-Ray's favor, IMHO.

But IMHO the best way for HD-DVD to fight back is to lower their player prices, and that's what I think they'll do.

I like Blu-Ray as a storage medium, and I think the best price point will be in SL HD media as it is with SL DVD blanks once they start to ship in volume, and there Blu-Ray has a decided advantage 25GB versus 15GB.

I don't much care for HD players and media at this point in time, but I realize that which format gains an advantage in HD player/ROM media sales will to a large degree dictate burner/blank media unit prices ($/GB).

I too, agree with you for the most part. I think HD DVD will HAVE to lower ther player prices if they have any hope of surviving.
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post #393 of 4651
1/16/07 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post

Why porn will not be the deciding factor this time around:

Digital Bits


Porn decided the VHS vs. Betamax format war, so it'll decide the HD format war too." is the typical comment. Here's why I doubt it: Back in the days of the VHS vs. Beta format war, the only way to watch porn was to visit a seedy adult movie theater or to spool up a Super-8 film. So when cheap, convenient porn on tape finally arrived, it was a HUGE deal, demand was massive and it benefited VHS greatly. The difference today is, cheap porn is already available EVERYWHERE on the Internet and particularly on good old standard DVD. Also, have any of you actually seen naked people in high-definition? Let me tell you, it's often a much better idea in theory than in reality. Porn stars may look sexy as all get out in standard definition, but... well, maybe not so much in HD. You can't hide those plastic surgery scars, stretch marks and ass-pimples in high-def. I'm just saying. Bottom line: Porn companies backing HD-DVD is not insignificant, but I doubt very much that porn will decide this format war.


Welcome back 1984, good to hear from ya. 8)
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post #394 of 4651
1/16/07 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

We're easily on track to beat the 2006 thread that had only a page a week, since the battle will almost certainly heat up this year. Believe it or not, a few people complained that they wanted to continue in the old thread instead of starting this one!


You're kidding, right? Porn has never been renowned for the quality of its productions. From scripts to lighting to camerawork and especially to acting, it's always been second-rate, done by people who aren't good enough to get jobs in the regular industry. They don't have the expertise, budget or time to do anything better. And the fact is, they won't have to. People will continue to buy them no matter how badly lit and filmed they are, because guys just want to see naked women and lots of silicone.

Nekkid women? YES! Plastic boobies? NO WAY, JOSIE! EFFIN' FUGLY, IMHO!

But seriously, I agree with you 100%, lousy compression artifacts, handheld DV camcorders, and Wal-Mart sized budgets.

So where are they going to take that DV schtick to, most likely HDV handheld camcorders in the $1K-$2K price range, with it's 25Mbit/s MPEG-2 compression artifacts, with it's somewhat limited lense quality, Jiminy Cricket they should at least use the $4K Canon or $6K Panny, but I doubt it.

But you know what, I can't wait for the VHS transfer of Deep Throat to full 1080p!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #395 of 4651
1/16/07 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

merz is the typical sony guy, he keeps posting about things that are GOING to happen, things that are GOING to be released, but never anything about the NOW.

its typical sony. talk about what is coming out 2 years from now lmao, like they did by showing off a trailer for the new final fantasy game in japan that isn't coming out for another 24 or so months.

look at the "potential" they say, constantly we hear about it but people for the most part are starting to catch on...

they promise promise promise but then never deliver.

Again, I don't own one piece of electronic equipment from Sony, nor do I work for them, so I have no vested interest in Sony whatsoever.

In terms of posting things that are GOING to happen, you can't help look at things that are GOING to happen so that you make an informed decision now. To do otherwise would be foolish, and shortsighted, something that HD DVD proponents hope consumers will engage in. By the way, there is plenty that is happening NOW since you seem affixed in the present without regarding the future...

Like, for instance, how Blu-ray software sales have begun to surpass HD DVD sales...

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=117

or how there have been approximately 2 million Playstation 3s shipped/sold worldwide...

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=12408

So, really there is plenty that is going on NOW for Blu-ray, and most of it looks positive and on the up and up. Moreover, if you dare peek over the blinders, you just might notice the acension Blu-ray is making into the not so distant future.
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post #396 of 4651
1/16/07 at 8:43pm
Blu-ray Refutes Claims of Porn Ban; Vivid Plans First High-Def Release

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...ef_Release/437

Quote:
The Blu-ray Disc Association is speaking out against charges that the org is shunning adult video distributors from releasing content on Blu-ray.

As we reported last week, the co-founder of porn distributor Digital Playground says that his company was forced to change HD allegiances after "all Blu-ray Disc copying facilities in the United States had refused to cooperate." He went on to allege that primary Blu-ray backer Sony "wants me to publish my films on HD DVD."

Without responding directly to Digital Playground's claims, Marty Gordon, vicechair of the Blu-ray Disc Association US Promotions Committee emphasized in a statement to Ars Technica that the Sony-backed organization is committed to working with "all" content providers.

"The BDA welcomes the participation of all companies interested in using and supporting the format, particularly those from the content industry," said the BDA's Gordon. "We look forward to working with any content providers interested in providing their audience with [the] best possible high definition home entertainment experience."

And indeed, as recently as last Friday, plans appeared to still be on the table for a Blu-ray (and HD DVD) release of 'Debbie Does Dallas... Again,' the first film from industry giant Vivid Entertainment to be released on high-def. (We first reported on Vivid's plans to support both high-def formats last October.)

Analysts say that the pornography industry, which generates an estimated $57 billion in annual revenue worldwide, could play an influential role in increasing high-def adaption rates and -- especially if forced to choose sides -- could help determine an ultimate victor in the high-def format wars.

Ahh, good to hear an official response...commence enjoying your porn in Blu-ray HD you porn fans!
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post #397 of 4651
1/17/07 at 3:22am
http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/01...time/index.php

Quote:
Case in point: Both sides in the ongoing DVD format warBlu-ray and HD DVDhave adopted QuickTime and H.264. So while Apple may hold a seat on the Blu-Ray Disc Associations Board of Directors, it sees the format fight as a win-win situation for its technology.

We are part of both of those technologies and are happy, regardless of the outcome, that H.264 is part of the overall equation, Casanova said.

Not much has changed. Apple has always been neutral in the format war but I've heard people say that the press release where they claim neutrality was old and thus suspect. Well here is more proof that Apple is not going push one format over the other. Mac HD DVD fans rejoice because you will be supported despite what others have told you.
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- SolipsismX
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post #398 of 4651
1/17/07 at 4:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

You would not believe my cable company, what a bunch of n00bs!

When my neighbor moved in the cable company came to activate him at his new address or some such nonsense. The cable guy reconnected his box to the TV via composite because my neighbor had "done this all wrong."

My neighbor had his box connected via component. After the cable guy left he hooked it back up via component.
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post #399 of 4651
1/17/07 at 4:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Your VERY welcome!

BTW, 1,000,000 divided by 12 = 83,333 and a third NOT 75K!

to defend my math

you are correct

however i was counting the 92,000 ALREADY SOLD in nov-dec

1,000,000 minus 92,000 = 908,000 NOW devide by 12 to get?

75666.66 recuring

or as i rounded it to 75,000

given that i was 666.66 out and you were 25,000 i think i was closer

anyway......

i think 8-bit machines will see a resurgance in 2008 how will this effect hardware sales
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post #400 of 4651
1/17/07 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

10 pages of which you've read NOTHING!!!


Actually you're right

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
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