Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007) - Page 105

Find me a $98 HD-DVD player and I'm in. I'm stuck not being able to shop Friday which is good and bad...

I don't believe you have to even leave your house to get such deals. When Walmart had $98 HD-DVD players, Bestbuy also offered the same HD-A2 at $99 + 3 free HDM pomo which the offer was extended to the online shoppers as well. Many BB online customers ended up getting the HD-A3 with 10 free movies instead.

The best online deal right now seems to be the HD-A35 for $149 as part of Amazon deal for the 26th of this month. You feeling lucky?....

If I can get the HD-A35 for under $150, I will jump on the HD-DVD bandwagon as well. Does that include free HD-DVD movies as well?

iCouldn't say which way Netflix is going to go. I'm Sure they actually just chuck dvd' or recycle them instead of clean them more than once. Some of the disc' come pretty scratched up dont they. Kind of ruins the film sometime, or at least some moments.

-Me

Not sure if HD-A35 deal will include 10 free HDM like the current offers from Amazon, but it would come at least with 2 HDM in box and 5 MIR (7 free HDM total). If you're lucky enough to get it in time.

Well, since i've backed you up a lot on this thread, you're gonna be a good little buddy and hook me up with the specifics so I DO get lucky enough

What or who is Perfect Vision and what's wrong with this picture:



Link: TPV-AM-Olive Magazine

Haha... I wish I can hook you up but do what you need to do and hope you get lucky.

http://promotions.amazon.com/gp/holi...pf_rd_i=507846

vote on round 4 and pray. Good Luck!.. You'll know on the 26th.

Newbe questions- I apologize...

Can both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players/recorders both play regular old standard DVDs?

Thanks for the info!

That's beautiful. While the information is all technically correct, it must be driving Sony execs up a wall.


Yes

DVD International and Image Entertainment support both platforms

Even though the Venturer is shunned, you can still get a Toshiba around that price. I have mixed feelings about them leaving consoles out of it. Perhaps it was because it would be difficult to get figures on how many of the hd-dvd additions for 360 have been sold? Not sure... but even with them, it would still be close in those numbers. If anything, whether they are spinning one way or another, it shows how close this war CAN be if it isn't that close. My vote is still for both formats.

Well yeah, that's the crazy (and fun) part.


I don't think Venturer has been shunned, they simply came late to the '07 party and wouldn't have been able to produce in the quantities required for the Christmas season. I can understand retailers preferring not to muddy the waters with yet another product (Wii, Zune) that will be in short supply prior to Christmas.


I doubt even HD-DVD fanboys would be that blatant. Most of us simply acknowledge the disparity and then add a proviso that most of the machines are gaming who could care less about buying movies. They may simply be one of those video publications that look down on the whole gaming scene.

I just can't believe how atrociously uncoordinated the marketing campaigns are for both platforms.

I don't know if this has been said or not, but BR is seriously scratch resistant. More so that you would ever imagine. It's part of how the disks are made.

$98?!

No need to bother buying either console player with the HD-DVD players being such a bargain right now. I think I will finally take the HD plunge before Christmas at such a reasonable price.

Just remember you get what you pay for. I have been pro hd-dvd being around since day 1... and I refuse to buy the $98 players. 720p isn't gonna cut it for me. When the Toshiba A35 (or another 1080p player, or a 1080p combo player) is below 150 I'll go for it.

Someone back me up on this, i heard it takes the A20 and A3 forever to spinup and get going. True / Untrue?

I can understand the argument for either side. On the one hand, counting computers and consoles with Blu-Ray playback capability as sold players would be as misleading as claiming the iPod is the number one selling gaming system; just because it has the capability doesn't mean any large number of people are using it to do so, because that is not the intended purpose of the product. With standalone players, you know the buyer's actually going to be watching HD films with it because that's it's only function. Really, they should be counting HD DVD xBox add-on players, as there's no other reason why someone would purchase one of those, but I don't believe Microsoft has released the sales figures for the add-on except to say they've sold more of it than there have been of standalone Blu-Ray players.

On the other hand however, the vast majority of the Blu-Ray disc buyers at the moment are most definitely the millions of PS3 owners out there, hence it's 2:1 lead over HD DVD disc sales. In the case of the PS3, a significant number of it's users really are taking advantage of it's "oh by the way" features, most likely because their game selection is still rather poor and they've got to find a way to justify their $600 purchase somehow Microsoft predicts that if and when the PS3's game selection improves, it's users will spend less time watching movies on it and more time actually gaming. That seems likely, however the PS3's user base will also continue to grow so I imagine the number of Blu-Ray discs sold will as well. This is why Toshiba has to get HD DVD standalone players into the hands of Joe Consumer this Christmas if they want to hold their ground, as Joe Consumers vastly outnumber those seriously interested in purchasing a $400-$600 game console.

I think an equally compelling argument can be made that the "oh, by the way" feature works the other way; that the primary reason for buying the PS3 was as a BD player and some people are experimenting with using it as a game machine.

As long as your comfortable with 1080i, then a $98 HD-DVD player would be a good deal for a video enthusiast who wants to go format neutral or a semi video fan who wants to see what HDM is all about and can accept that not all studios will be available to him or her. However, don't forget for the typical Joe Consumer a $98 HD or a $399 BD player is only part of the equation there's still $800 - $1200 for a HDTV.

I guess what I'm saying is at this point in time there's simply not enough HDTVs out there, 18% of all households is the figure I've seen, to move HDM into the consumer realm regardless of player price.

Yah I agree. I do gotta say though, the PS3 game selection is getting a bit better. Assassin's Creed, COD4, Madden 08, DiRT, MX vs. ATV Untamed, Warhawk, Ninja Gaiden. I own all of those cept MX vs. ATV (comes out in 2 weeks). I have spent more time gaming on my ps3 in the last week then I have touched my PS2 all year. Maybe because it has a new car smell, but I think it has to do with how great the games are. I'm very please with my games I have now. Ninja Gaiden is gonna take me major amounts of time to complete in itself. DiRT has amazing replay value for myself because I love rally racing. I raced MX for 21 years and loved the last MX vs ATV game so I know I'll love this one. I spent too many hours on that. I hate to sound like a hypocrite, but I have forgot about PC gaming almost entirely. My BF2 account is suffering .

Anyways, I've heard more people predict Blu-ray will die off in the last week then I've heard all year. Even with Blu-ray's b1g1 free sale, they still barely won that week because shrek 3 sold a LOT of hd-dvds. I predict it had something to do with the $99 players. I'm just guessing though. Now with small talk of blu-ray hurting (sony ceo, lack of my fav movies on br, bd+ problems, and what consumers are talking), I'm kinda scared hd-dvd will win now. At first I was all for hd-dvd, then I realized I want both formats. I want competing formats, as long as dual format players become normal. I think they will in 2008. I don't want one of these to win, please lets just get these dual format players out and get this war done and over with.

Not that I keep on on this too much, but who exactly is predicting the death of Blu-Ray this week? Anyone credible? Or just a bunch of HD-DVD fanboys?

Also where are the numbers that show that Shrek 3 was ale to close the gap on Blu-Ray sales? The Nielsen / Video Scan numbers won't be out until tomorrow(right?) for the week ending on 11/18. All the numbers in previous weeks show Blu-Ray ahead by a huge margin, HD-DVD was only able to come close on 10/21 and 10/28 with 49% and 45% respectively.

I find it hard to believe that Blu-Ray is just going to die with a what 4-1 lead in Europe, over 90% of the market in Japan and about a 2-1 lead in America.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/show...10996&page=119 ... Home Media Magazine isn't being updated quick enough.

that is where my numbers were coming from. Most these guys have been spot on.

The people talking down on blu-ray were hardly fanbois by any means. Most of them were j6p who are video enthusiasts but have been waiting for prices to lower. The BD+ issues really pissed off a lot of people. I feel if sony continues to push BD+, blu-ray is gonna have a big fight ahead of it. Again, I'm all for both formats. But when a number of people stepping into hd are going HD-DVD cause of cheap players, we have issues.

I wasn't aware of europe's and Japan's numbers. Can you supply a url with these numbers so I can show them?

That's very true. But prices of HDTVs are way down this Holiday, and they seem to be on a lot of people's want lists. After that, they're going to want something to hook up to them. A $399 player for their $699 HDTV is a hard pill to swallow, but they might spring for a $199 player with a handful of free movies. At least they might if the Best Buy sales rep doesn't con them into spending $350 on a 3-year warranty for their $700 tv



Weren't VCDs insanely popular in Japan at one time, too?


No, I don't think Blu-Ray will die at the hand of HD DVD, either. Hell, even if everyone else in the world stopped using it (unlikely), Sony would release their films on Blu-Ray until the end of days (PSP movies, anyone?). I'm on the same page as emig647, and think combo players will become the norm in 2008. When that Samsung BD-UP5000 hits $499, you can guarantee I'll be one of the first in line to go neutral-format. It's not even shipping yet, and some online stores are already listing it for under $800 ($999 retail). At this juncture, combo players at affordable prices may be the only way to get consumers out of this chicken/egg scenario; they don't want to buy a player till there's a clear winner, but there won't be a clear winner unless someone buys the players.

Here is something else. Both Sony CEO and now Toshiba finally agree on something.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=27223

Good point but it's not a concern for all HD tv owners: remember there are smaller HD tvs out there where 720p is going to look fine enough. 1040p can be considered overkill for anything 32" and below.

Thanks for the link, I was just curious since I hadn't seen the numbers from the usual quoted source with the nice pie chart!

As far as Euro and Japan numbers here is what I was able to google up quickly.

Regarding Europe
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=20071
http://gadgets.qj.net/Blu-ray-sweeps.../49/aid/103769

As far as Japan, I may have been mistaken, I haven't been able to find solid numbers of MOVIE sales from Japan, just this, which states that Blu-Ray has 97% of the RECORDER market...which is probably not very relevant to the topic at hand:

http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/ind...ecorder_market

I am still confused on one thing, I've been reading the posts on the highdefdigest forums and followed a link from there (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...940249&page=11) and it looks like Blu-Ray won handily again???


Am I missing something?

I didn't say they didn't clearly win. What I said was.... or at least what my point was... Was that Shrek 3 did an incredible job selling discs. Along with O13. This happened to land on the same b1g1 free week for blu-ray. If Blu-ray had a b1g1 free during that week, how many of those in that number were free movies? But when you look at the individual movie sales, Shrek 3 sold almost half of the hd movies last week... horrible movie btw (watched it on dvd last night). Heh, I know I didn't explain this clearly, just got done running 4.5 miles... a little slow in the head.

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 18th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...2507/index.php

WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Numbers are up. BTW, emig647, it is not that HMM isn't being updated quick enough (as you made it sound as if it was a reoccuring phenomenon), but rather it was a holiday weekend and the official numbers came in today.

Also, the so called BD+ issues you speak of and how they are pissing people off as you say are far and few between. I think more people are probably pissed with slow load times, freezes, and mass problems with combo HD DVD discs. Furthermore, you mention that we have issues because a "number of people" are going into HD DVD due to cheap player prices and yet the sales ratio of discs for Blu-ray over the past four weeks even with Toshiba's fire sale of the A2 is the following...

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 18th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...2507/index.php

WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%


Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 11th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...1807/index.php

WE: BD-65% HDD-35% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%


Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 4th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...1107/index.php

WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%


Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending October 28th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...0407/index.php

WE: BD-55% HDD-45% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-60% HDD-40%

Clearly the data contradicts those claims you've heard and have shared with us of any type of dieing off of Blu-ray.

In addition, in October, Blu-ray looked like this in Europe...

Blu-ray Winning Europe 4-to-1

also, Blu-ray looked like this in Japan...

Blu-ray to HD DVD Sales Ratio in Japan up to 9:1

and of note...


Moreover, concerning your comments about Stringer, which I previously posted showing how Stringer was taken out of context with his "stalemate" comment, and your attempt at claiming that he and Toshiba wish for coexistance are obvioulsly false. Yes, I buy that Toshiba is simply fighting for coexistance, as that is simply the BEST they can do. However, what I don't buy is that somehow Stringer wants coexistance, especially concerning his most recent comments...

Stringer talks a Blu-ray streak


So, in general, I totally agree with beg. What are we missing here guys? Blu-ray has been winning handily for the entire year of 2007. And obviously, price has yet to trump all in this format war, and it appears that content has been taking the cake over this, month after month, week after week. And logistically, content will continue to be in Blu-ray's favor (barring any more Microsoft/Toshiba $150 million dollar bribes) going forward given Blu-ray's superiority in sales. Not to mention superiority in storage, bandwidth, IT support, CE support, durability, marketing etc.

Onkyo priced out of HD DVD, discontinues HD805

Translation:

Onkyo DV-HD805, the phantom HD DVD

By: Gian Luca Di Felice

The first Onkyo HD DVD player has been available in Italy for a few days now, but it can already be considered as a collector's item, because there are very few units in existence, and Onkyo has stopped its production.

We were waiting for a unit of the first Onkyo HD DVD player, the DV-HD805, for review on the pages of AV Magazine. After a conversation with Tecnofuturo, the Brescia-based Italian distributor of the Japanese manufacturer, we decided in mutual agreement that it was not worth the trouble. The reasons are quickly explained: the DV-HD805 is no other than a rebranded Toshiba HD-XE1 HD DVD player, which is already compatible with streaming of all lossless multichannel HD codecs via HDMI 1.3, and there are only few units of it available.

In view of the new marketing policy being applied by Toshiba, consisting of sinking the price of its own players, Onkyo has difficulty in positioning its own player (the Europe list price is 899 euros) and has therefore decided to stop production. The scarce units produced have been redistributed in varios markets. It has been known that barely 11 units arrived in Italy, and no others will come. Germany has been more fortunate, with 20 units, and Spain will receive none.

As to why it was decided not to review such a product, apart from its being a clone, it won't be effectively be available on the market (the 11 Italian units are already sold). We thank Tecnofuturo for such a quick communication and we apologize to the enthusiasts. Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player. We'll have other news and more confirmation during the upcoming CES at Las Vegas.

Source: Avmagazine.it

^^^Toshiba has effectively priced out any hopes of other vendors wanting to make a buck on HD DVD players as well as hopes of retailers wanting to get the most out of their margins.

If Toshiba keeps it up, it'll be humina-humina-humina POW! Right in the kissa! POW! Right in the kissa! POW! Right in the kissa! POW! Right in the kissa!



-A Family Guy Inside Joke

Why was there no top ten list for last week?



A combo player would be their best bet. There's only one coming to market this year, and the countless blu-ray players already available are all the same anyhow so there's no sense in throwing another into the ring.

This is the week blu-ray had buy 1 get 1 free. So I wonder what the numbers would have looked like without that.

As far as BD+ goes, the problem isn't widespread because it's only on 2 movies so far. Silver Surfer and The Day After Tomorrow. If Sony doesn't get BD+ in control... and fast... It's going to blow up for any future releases. Sony has always had the shadiest anti-piracy methods i have ever seen. Remember copy protected cds that you could mark with a sharpie? Either way... Sony just needs to forget about BD+ and I'll be happy. All it does is hurt the end consumer... and this is a PERFECT example.

Keep in mind too, that this is the week HD DVD had a 300+ million dollar grossing blockbuster in Shrek 3 exclusively in its arsenal against pretty much nothing in Blu-ray's arsenal for the week. It appears that even with Shrek, unlike Transformers, HD DVD couldn't even muster getting into the 40s. Just imagine how many more copies and how skewed the numbers would be if Paramount didn't take the bribe.

This war would be pretty much over by now. Unfortunately, Microsoft paid for a delay in HD DVDs demise. No matter, the numbers are still highly in favor for Blu-ray.

Doubtful, considering Blu-Ray players still cost an arm and a leg, and their user base is still largely just PS3 owners with no games to play. And it's no surprise Blu-Ray's numbers are double that of HD DVD, considering they give half of their movies away That is a leg up Sony has over Toshiba; as an actual movie studio, they can control the price of their own titles and offer sweet deals. I imagine HD DVD could benefit from offering a "BOGO" deal every other week, but Toshiba's not in a position to make that happen.

I'm sorry, but I resent that.
As a PS3 owner, there are PLENTY of awesome exclusives.

Mmm...the only thing reading that thread tells me is that those are the same jerks polluting the AVS forums with format wars.

Didn't see a $99 HD-DVD player and didn't score a cheap console on Amazon. From that thread it appears Walmart paid $185 and sold at a loss which seems damn odd for Walmart but hey, with only 55K units its not that much money for a company like Walmart.

Ah well...

Oh...the highlight of my weekend was helping my brother in law set up a brand new Sony bravia 46" TV...via S-Video...

At least he said he was getting a PS3 for Christmas. I hunted around for component cables but they were too short and his DVD player is pretty old anyway.

BD+ is Fox - not Sony.