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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007) - Page 108

post #4281 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:04pm
More Misleading Data from HD DVD Propaganda Group

http://www.hollywoodinhighdef.com/bl...ail.php?id=141

Quote:
Are you kidding me with this latest misleading headline from the HD DVD Propaganda Group?:

"HD DVD Surpasses 750,000 Dedicated Players"

And your definition of "dedicated player" has now expanded -- we learn further down in the press release -- to include Xbox 360 add-on HD DVD drives? There were a little more than 200,000 of those prior to Black Friday, compared to 2 million PS3 machines with Blu-ray Disc capability (even if only 20% use them for movies, that's still 400,000). Now, maybe 300,000 or so Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on drives are in the market.
So, at best, there are 450,000 honest-to-goodness stand-alone HD DVD players in the market. Hey, that's an OK number at this stage, but call it what it is -- 450,000 (or fewer) "dedicated players," not 750,000*

* including Xbox 360 HD drives.

This is the same group that would be jumping up and down screaming if Blu-ray suddenly started counting PS3 machines in its total number of "dedicated Blu-ray players." If they did, that number would be close to 2.5 million versus the 750,000 number being trumpeted today for HD DVD, if you want to compare apples to apples. But, of course, the HD DVD Propaganda Group never wants to make accurate comparisons.
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post #4282 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

I'm waiting for kenwood to make a Blu-Ray carousel player. I have a 200 disk DVD carousel by Sony, and was about to upgrade to kenwood sovereign carousel then the HD format thing came about, and I decided to stop wasting money on DVD's.
My PS3 is killer, and I'm buying Pirates 2, and 3 on BR on the 4th Baby! I have Pirates 1 coming from my 5 free movie deal. I wisjh it would have been that 10 free movie deal though.


Pirates is absolutely STUNNING on BD and the sheer AMOUNT of extras is mindboggling, you are in for a treat!
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post #4283 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

No my friend. That would be the smaller chunk. And it's even smaller outside the U.S.

I'd use the term "nonexistent" outside the US
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post #4284 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:14pm
Wow... what a active thread. Too bad it's coming from a broken record. The HiDef format war is over folks. Sony, maker of PS3, said it was over 6 months ago but there seems to be no winner, yet.

I've got over 10+ HD-DVD this months alone, during Amazon B2G1 promo, and I'll just keep supporting my preferred format even if I get a combo drive for my HTPC.
BTW, I've heard there are many downloadable version of BD movies around. I'll let you guys know if I hear BD+ movies make it to the downloadable list.
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post #4285 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:28pm
Wow! It looks like quite a few people had a lot of spare time on their hands given the number of posts since yesterday.

People are throwing the term "consumers" around like hand grenades, consumers this, consumers that, when in fact they're really talking about video enthusiasts. At this time the average consumer is sitting this mess out and is supporting SD-DVD.

One point about seeing which format has the movies out that you want and then choosing that format. Be sure and also check what movies are scheduled for release as that might make a difference. And do remember that a good SD-DVD transfer, while not the quality of a good HDM one, still can look pretty darn good on an up-converting DVD player and HDTV.
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post #4286 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Pirates is absolutely STUNNING on BD and the sheer AMOUNT of extras is mindboggling, you are in for a treat!

I saw Blu-ray's Spiderman 3 last Saturday on my neighbors Sony Bravia...amazing. Scences with the Sandman...all the small particles...very, very detailed. Not to mention all the action sequences were spot on.
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post #4287 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:29pm
It is over. Look at the numbers. BR has global domination.
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post #4288 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Wow... what a active thread. Too bad it's coming from a broken record. The HiDef format war is over folks. Sony, maker of PS3, said it was over 6 months ago but there seems to be no winner, yet.

I've got over 10+ HD-DVD this months alone, during Amazon B2G1 promo, and I'll just keep supporting my preferred format even if I get a combo drive for my HTPC.
BTW, I've heard there are many downloadable version of BD movies around. I'll let you guys know if I hear BD+ movies make it to the downloadable list.


Broken record... you!!??? REALLY


BTW vinyl has NO place on this thread, PLEASE try and keep it on topic!
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post #4289 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

It is over. Look at the numbers. BR has global domination.

It's over. Look at the numbers. SD-DVD has global domination.
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post #4290 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

I saw Blu-ray's Spiderman 3 last Saturday on my neighbors Sony Bravia...amazing. Scences with the Sandman...all the small particles...very, very detailed. Not to mention all the action sequences were spot on.

I agree about the picture quality. Too bad the movie wasn't better.
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post #4291 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

It's over. Look at the numbers. SD-DVD has global domination.

hahahahahahaha

it's over. Look at the numbers PASTA has global domination
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post #4292 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

More Misleading Data from HD DVD Propaganda Group

http://www.hollywoodinhighdef.com/bl...ail.php?id=141

I don't see what's misleading here. The Xbox add-on is a dedicated player.
There is no reason to purchase it other than to watch HD-DVD movies.

Conversely, the PS3 cannot be counted as a dedicated player, since it is marketed and bought primarily as a gaming machine.

The lack of having Star Trek on Blu-Ray seems to be affecting its advocates ability to think logically.
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post #4293 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

I agree about the picture quality. Too bad the movie wasn't better.

did you get the boxset then? (think it was you asking a while back if it was worth getting?)

I'd be sort of keen on getting them, despite not really liking the first two movies, but they are far enough down my "must have" list to not concern me at the moment.

and with xmas round the corner and the glut of films that is usually on, i might pick up an OTA recording to put on the AppleTV instead.
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post #4294 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

We all know that for "right now" they'll support both, but make no mistake, WB will be looking at the fourth quarter for their strategic plans come 2008.

Uhh...I would imagine every company looks at the sales figures of all of their products every quarter. The point I'm trying to raise is that you're interpreting "we plan to support both formats in 2008" as "we're going to drop HD DVD like a rock".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

where the hell do you get your misinformation from? out of your ass?

the PS3 has sold over 5 million world wide.

the US (and I make the assumption you are from the US) is NOT the entire globe!

We were talking about North American figures. Relax Walter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

More Misleading Data from HD DVD Propaganda Group

http://www.hollywoodinhighdef.com/bl...ail.php?id=141

So what exactly is misleading? The article distinctly noted they were counting xBox add-ons when it was released yesterday. The xBox Add-on cannot be used for anything but playing HD DVD movies, and does not come bundled with anything it must be purchased individually. They should have been counting them as "dedicated players" all along, because that's what they are.
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post #4295 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

I agree about the picture quality. Too bad the movie wasn't better.

Amen to that.
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post #4296 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Uhh...I would imagine every company looks at the sales figures of all of their products every quarter. The point I'm trying to raise is that you're interpreting "we plan to support both formats in 2008" as "we're going to drop HD DVD like a rock".



We were talking about North American figures. Relax Walter.


So what exactly is misleading? The article distinctly noted they were counting xBox add-ons when it was released yesterday. The xBox Add-on cannot be used for anything but playing HD DVD movies, and does not come bundled with anything it must be purchased individually. They should have been counting them as "dedicated players" all along, because that's what they are.

But the dude DID say 2.5 million world wide...
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post #4297 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

But the dude DID say 2.5 million world wide...

Which dude? This dude?
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post #4298 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Counting PS3s, Blu-Ray has 2.5 million players in the world compared to HD DVD's 750,000 and yet Blu-Rays disc sales are only double that of HD DVD on a regular week. Whether the 40% statistic is true or not of PS3 owners who realize they own a Blu-Ray player, only about that many are actually buying Blu-Ray discs. Either that, or HD DVD player owners have a significantly higher purchase rate for discs.

You're the dude.
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post #4299 of 4651
11/28/07 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Wow! It looks like quite a few people had a lot of spare time on their hands given the number of posts since yesterday.

People are throwing the term "consumers" around like hand grenades, consumers this, consumers that, when in fact they're really talking about video enthusiasts. At this time the average consumer is sitting this mess out and is supporting SD-DVD.

One point about seeing which format has the movies out that you want and then choosing that format. Be sure and also check what movies are scheduled for release as that might make a difference. And do remember that a good SD-DVD transfer, while not the quality of a good HDM one, still can look pretty darn good on an up-converting DVD player and HDTV.

Difference is more noticeable on a reference HT system. But not many would have such system even among the enthusiasts.

It's an uphill battle for all HDM supporters, but thread like this is making things even worst because no one will get a positive spin on the HDM market from reading such thread. Just too many fanboys with way too many mal-intended opinions. Some of them sounds even more convincing than the real HDM owners.
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post #4300 of 4651
11/28/07 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Broken record... you!!??? REALLY


BTW vinyl has NO place on this thread, PLEASE try and keep it on topic!


Hey.... if it's okay to talk about game console that plays back lossless audio, then I can talk about my vinyl player that plays lossless analog audio. I collect these as well. Very limited quanity, sadly.
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post #4301 of 4651
11/28/07 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

You're the dude.

Oh whoops! Yeah that was a typo on my part, sorry. The HD DVD article is speaking strictly of North American sales when it stated 2 million PS3s, 400,000-500,000 dedicated Blu-Ray players and 750,000 HD DVD players. I wasn't comparing PS3's north american figures to HD DVD's worldwide figures though, but rather both format's north american figures and erroneously stating they were worldwide figures. So the comparison was relevant regardless.
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post #4302 of 4651
11/28/07 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

It's over. Look at the numbers. SD-DVD has global domination.

Obviously, but eventually there will not be an SD-DVD. BAM!
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post #4303 of 4651
11/28/07 at 2:44pm
Perhaps... but it's not too late for HDM to go the way of Laserdisc while SD-DVD continues to be "the" format for widespread release.

The potential for that happening due to the format war slowing adoption is my biggest fear, not that I've bought the one that might lose.
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post #4304 of 4651
11/28/07 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

Perhaps... but it's not too late for HDM to go the way of Laserdisc while SD-DVD continues to be "the" format for widespread release.

The potential for that happening due to the format war slowing adoption is my biggest fear, not that I've bought the one that might lose.

That is not possible for the manufacturers are the ones that decide when, and where SD-will disappear. They have too much invested in HD technology, and HD is obviously natural technological progression. SD will end within 3 to 5 years. Actually I would be surprised if in 5 years is was still around in anything other than old movies in video rental stores.
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post #4305 of 4651
11/28/07 at 3:28pm
The manufacturers make what people buy. The market decides when and where SD disappears. If people were still buying VHS is sufficient quantities the studios would still be releasing on it.
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post #4306 of 4651
11/28/07 at 3:31pm
I think your time is optimistic onlooker. Converting movies to HD does take time for it to be done correctly. I'm still waiting for relatively new movies: Gangs of New York, Death To Smoochy, Fight Club, Four Rooms, Snatch, Primal Fear... IMO if this move was going to be done in 3-5 years, I would think there would at least be news on at least one of these for release dates. I think nothing pisses me off more about HD then I can't get the movies I want when I want them. On top of that... upconverted DVD looks pretty damn good in comparison... but I still want to double dip those movies... please k and thanks.

 

 

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post #4307 of 4651
11/28/07 at 4:52pm
Quick question, which I can't find answered, and please provide a link.
Which disc is more durable, and why?
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post #4308 of 4651
11/28/07 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

A year from now I imagine you'll be able to purchase the Samsung BD-UP5000 combo player for what Blu-Ray players are selling for now. If you can afford a Blu-Ray player today, you can afford a combo player in a year

Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

4metta... there are players that play BOTH formats in 1 drive. Price is high right now because they are relatively new to the market. BUT you can get a dual format reader and dvd burner for under $300

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136133 (out of stock till 12/01/07).

This tells me that the actual players themselves will be under $450 soon. Or you can even get that rom now... and build a media pc. I'm kinda considering it.


Thanks for the info guys. That does sound promising.
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post #4309 of 4651
11/28/07 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

We were talking about North American figures. Relax Walter.


So what exactly is misleading?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Counting PS3s, Blu-Ray has 2.5 million players in the world

Yes, what exactly IS misleading?

The FUD that you spout? YEP
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post #4310 of 4651
11/28/07 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Yes, what exactly IS misleading?

The FUD that you spout? YEP

I already established this. :P
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post #4311 of 4651
11/28/07 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Hey.... if it's okay to talk about game console that plays back lossless audio, then I can talk about my vinyl player that plays lossless analog audio. I collect these as well. Very limited quanity, sadly.

Oh my record collection is safely tucked away, I was sad to see them go from mainstream use, but that is the way for things. My CD collection likely far exceeds it now anyway and my MP3/ACC collection has more stuff again... of course theres some things I haven't transferred from Vinyl or CD, but "some day" I'll get round to it
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post #4312 of 4651
11/28/07 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

I think your time is optimistic onlooker. Converting movies to HD does take time for it to be done correctly. I'm still waiting for relatively new movies: Gangs of New York, Death To Smoochy, Fight Club, Four Rooms, Snatch, Primal Fear... IMO if this move was going to be done in 3-5 years, I would think there would at least be news on at least one of these for release dates. I think nothing pisses me off more about HD then I can't get the movies I want when I want them. On top of that... upconverted DVD looks pretty damn good in comparison... but I still want to double dip those movies... please k and thanks.

can't remember if it was here or on some other board I read, but I believe that the studios are only now getting to the point of having released about half of what they have in the vaults (in terms of numbers of films) ON DVD! and thats going for 10 years.

Give it time BD and HD-DVD are just over a year old

agreed though, a faster release rate would be cool for those that want it, but I have a feeling some enthusiasts would bankrupt themselves if the release rate was any higher
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post #4313 of 4651
11/28/07 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Yes, what exactly IS misleading?

The FUD that you spout? YEP

See here. It was an honest mistake, and the numbers I was comparing were for the same market (I just got the market wrong), so chill with all the FUD/misinformation/out-of-your-ass commentary.
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post #4314 of 4651
11/28/07 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

Quick question, which I can't find answered, and please provide a link.
Which disc is more durable, and why?

The quick answer is Blu-ray. The quick explanation is that all Blu-ray discs use a Durabis-like hard coating that is 100 times more scratch resistant than DVDs, and HD DVDS use exactly the same protective measures as DVD.

http://www.tdk-media.com/consumer/marketing/brd1.html
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post #4315 of 4651
11/28/07 at 8:34pm
Moh, moh, moh Blu-ray domination...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...36c0078ef4de4a

Quote:
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment's "Live Free or Die Hard," released the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, generated first-week sales that were 20% ahead of projections, in addition to nearly 100,000 Blu-ray Disc copies, said Steve Feldstein, the division's senior vp corporate and marketing communications.

...The high-definition format war tilted even more heavily in favor of Blu-ray Disc despite a rash of inexpensive HD DVD players sold through Wal-Mart and other discount retailers in recent weeks. Nielsen VideoScan data for the week shows 72.6% of high-definition discs purchased by consumers were Blu-ray and just 27.4% were HD DVD. HD DVD players have been selling for as little as $98, one-fourth the lowest street price for a Blu-ray player.

umm..., so how's that price trumps all theory doing again? HD DVD aficionados, start your spin engines.
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post #4316 of 4651
11/28/07 at 9:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Moh, moh, moh Blu-ray domination...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...36c0078ef4de4a



umm..., so how's that price trumps all theory doing again? HD DVD aficionados, start your spin engines.

I don't think they need to start their spin engines,seems they've somehow managed to create a perpetual motion spin machine!
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post #4317 of 4651
11/28/07 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
One factor people may not realize: If J6P HD DVD player buyers are so single-mindedly focused on rock-bottom prices, it may be because they don't have much money to spare. It follows that if they don't have the money for an expensive player, they may not have the money for many disc purchases after their freebies, either.
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post #4318 of 4651
11/28/07 at 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

One factor people may not realize: If J6P HD DVD player buyers are so single-mindedly focused on rock-bottom prices, it may be because they don't have much money to spare. It follows that if they don't have the money for an expensive player, they may not have the money for many disc purchases after their freebies, either.

If your assumptions are correct about poor people buying cheap HD-DVD players, then I would guess they would all be heavily involved with netflix HD-DVD rental service just like most PS3 owners using BD features would do.

Most J6P would not even own HDTV, so most HD-DVD player buyers would not be J6P at all even for those purchasing $98 players.

Anyway, if you call people buying $98 HD-DVD player being too poor to purchase HDM's, when what do you call those who can't even afford $98 HD-DVD players..... Blu-Ray fanboy?
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post #4319 of 4651
11/29/07 at 3:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

See here. It was an honest mistake, and the numbers I was comparing were for the same market (I just got the market wrong), so chill with all the FUD/misinformation/out-of-your-ass commentary.

I guess I should just tell YOU to chill, you don't seem to like it when what you say is WRONG, and it's proved to you.
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post #4320 of 4651
11/29/07 at 3:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

One factor people may not realize: If J6P HD DVD player buyers are so single-mindedly focused on rock-bottom prices, it may be because they don't have much money to spare. It follows that if they don't have the money for an expensive player, they may not have the money for many disc purchases after their freebies, either.

Another factor that will kill the attach rate theory.
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