or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007) - Page 110

post #4361 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

Virtually all does equal everyone of consequence though, otherwise it's just mostly all.

WalMart is of serious consequence in the format war, especially since J6P will ultimately decide the winner.

Is there a virtually all poor people choose xxxx "joke" in there?

and J6P will only be deciding in the US.

Last I understood movies were a world wide phenomena.
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
post #4362 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Hmm.. what would you call a valid argument?... Did you read what was posted and agree with such ridiculous statement?.....

"Poor people can not afford $20 HDM price after buying a $98 HD-DVD player"

If this isn't a fanboy act/behavior, then perhaps it's act of a troll? Take your pick!

If I had made a similar statement about PS3 owner, I'm sure you will be the first to name me as such.



I don't like buying cheap stuff for my main HT, and I did pass up on the $98 HD-DVD player. I wouldn't say cheap, but I need a player with HiDef Audio processing capabilities and analog 5.1 out, but the entry level players do not offer this option. And I already have XA1 & XA2 at two different viewing locations. I would not mind getting a cheaper Blu-Ray player/drive as an alternative HiDef format, though.

If there is a $99 deal on a Blu-Ray player/Drive with profile 1.1 compliance ready hardware this holidays, I would buy one in a heart beat. I'm sure even the alternative HiDef format is worth $100 for the keep sake. I would much prefer a PC drive for the price because I really want to be able to rip all the HDM discs and store them in the HDD. I don't have to worry about optical format at all for viewings and can access entire movie library in every room with a PC.

Anyway, who cares where these $98 HD-DVD players are going. As long as it sells like hot cakes, it will find it's home of new, old, and neutral HDM supporting homes.


I agree that "Poor" People are with the majority and staying with SD-DVD, they arn't going to be buying a $98 that needs $20 discs when they already have a player that plays $15 discs. plus.. the don't likely don't have the $600 minimum for a new HD-TV and if they DO have the $600 they are more likely to spend it elsewhere at xmas.

according to Government figures I'm actually below the poverty line... so STFU

you HAVE made disparaging comment on the PS3 and its owners.

as to "who cares where the cheap players are going" clearly you SHOULD if 400,000 people all buy an extra machine real cheap, thats going to HALF the attach rates, which is going to make the PS3 attach rates look that bit better, and make studios like warner think "despite the player sales our disc sales arn't going up to match" while the BD sales ARE going up to match!

but if you don't see that, or don't care, maybe you ARE working for Toshiba because you are ignoring some useful info.
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
post #4363 of 4651
Venturer is a Canadian company (if I am not mistaken) and that was a Canadian flyer. That is not near the sales of Wal-Mart in the States. Btw, Wal-Mart here still has Blu-Ray and most people do not buy the budget ones when it is just a bit more for the brand name version.
post #4364 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Good catch on the Walmart.ca domain. But of course you know some people are going to say, "It doesn't matter where they are! It's still Walmart and that's all that counts!"
post #4365 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam'ron View Post

Venturer is a Canadian company (if I am not mistaken) and that was a Canadian flyer. That is not near the sales of Wal-Mart in the States. Btw, Wal-Mart here still has Blu-Ray and most people do not buy the budget ones when it is just a bit more for the brand name version.

wallmart just had a deal on a sony br player and 10 br dvd's last week for like $350.00.
that looked like a pretty good deal to me.
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
post #4366 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

So, the question is, if someone can buy a Toshiba with ten free movies or whatever the current offer is for the same price or as little as half of the price of the Venturer, then what's in it for the consumer or Venturer? I have to wonder how long before Venturer figures it's not worth it to fight Toshiba itself and throws in the towel.

Isn't the Toshiba player with ten free movies largely just an Amazon.com deal?
post #4367 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Is there a virtually all poor people choose xxxx "joke" in there?

and J6P will only be deciding in the US.

Last I understood movies were a world wide phenomena.

No, that's an almost no one I know has heard of Magnolia's, but they've all heard of Wal Mart based statement.

I didn't realize that average people with an interest in better looking movies were limited to the borders of the United States. Thank you for correcting me.
post #4368 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

I agree that "Poor" People are with the majority and staying with SD-DVD, they arn't going to be buying a $98 that needs $20 discs when they already have a player that plays $15 discs. plus.. the don't likely don't have the $600 minimum for a new HD-TV and if they DO have the $600 they are more likely to spend it elsewhere at xmas.

according to Government figures I'm actually below the poverty line... so STFU

you HAVE made disparaging comment on the PS3 and its owners.

So, you're poor and able to afford $399/$499 Blu-Ray player and few $20 HDM's. Good for you, and I'm sure you're not the only fortunate sole. Poor people buying $98 HD-DVD players should be able to afford even more of those $20 HDM's with savings from going with $98 HD-DVD player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

maybe you ARE working for Toshiba because you are ignoring some useful info.

That would have been nice. I could have taken advantage of the employee discount on both of my HD-DVD Players, if I was working for Toshiba.

BTW, I'm only ignoring irrational speculations, but not the facts.
always a newbie
Reply
always a newbie
Reply
post #4369 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Isn't the Toshiba player with ten free movies largely just an Amazon.com deal?

No. Best Buy, Circuit City and others had similar deals off and on in recent months. Who can keep track of them anymore? More importantly, you're trying to obfuscate the point with irrelevancy. Only a little over a week ago, Toshiba's players went for half of what the Venturer does. Toshiba has huge stakes in this and will probably have similar deals in the near future. Again, the question is, if Toshiba will pour millions into this battle without really distinguishing between friend and foe, then why should Venturer continue selling HD DVD players? Should they discount their own players as heavily and fall on their sword for Toshiba's benefit?
post #4370 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

No. Best Buy, Circuit City and others had similar deals off and on in recent months. Who can keep track of them anymore? More importantly, you're trying to obfuscate the point with irrelevancy. Only a little over a week ago, Toshiba's players went for half of what the Venturer does. Toshiba has huge stakes in this and will probably have similar deals in the near future. Again, the question is, if Toshiba will pour millions into this battle without really distinguishing between friend and foe, then why should Venturer continue selling HD DVD players? Should they discount their own players as heavily and fall on their sword for Toshiba's benefit?

This is first valid point you made ever on this thread. I actually have to agree with this and have to say that this may be a concern if such promotions are long tern strategy. However, the same argument is valid when PS3 is selling at $399 and has the cheapest retail tag, having the potential of being most compliant/future proof features, and capable player on the market. Don't forget that no standalone Blu-Ray players on the market is even profile 1.1 complaint. It's probably the driving reason that many informed AV enthusiasts are forced to buy PS3 as a Blu-Ray player even when the unit is not going to be used as a gaming console.

This really must be a tough call for all hardware manufacturers, but at least the poor people can now afford to join the HDM market due to competitive pricing.
always a newbie
Reply
always a newbie
Reply
post #4371 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

T

...

This really must be a tough call for all hardware manufacturers, but at least the poor people can now afford to join the HDM market due to competitive pricing.

"Poor" people have to decide if a $99 player is worth it considering $25 and up discs and $800 on up for a new HDTV. BTW, I hate the term "poor"; what exactly does it mean?

Even the middle class is looking more carefully at their discretionary income what with their commute using $3.00+ gas and having to refinance their expiring ARMs in the next year to get away from increases of $300 - $500 a month in mortgage payment. Of course, as always, some people don't have to worry about their spending.
post #4372 of 4651
Added thoughts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

The prior week was probably one of the best release week of Blu-Ray. Including Rata & Cars being only two weeks ago.

Here is the release list:

HD DVD
Tremors (Universal)
Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One (Paramount)
Led Zeppelin: The Song Remains the Same (Warner)

BD
Badder Santa: The Unrated Version (Buena Vista)
The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause (Buena Vista)
Hairspray (New Line)
Die Hard (Fox)
Die Hard 2: Die Harder (Fox)
Die Hard with a Vengence (Fox)
The Die Hard Collection (Fox)
Live Free or Die Hard (Fox)
Pathfinder (Fox)
Rescue Dawn (MGM)
Led Zeppelin: The Song Remains the Same (Warner)


The prior week is less likely to be repeated again, perhaps ever. The remaining future release schedule seems to be pretty much on par for both formats. The pirates will be the last hope or the Blu-Ray world's end and would have to do a lot more B1G1 Blu-Ray deals to come close to 70/30 for rest of the year.

So... is it going to be B1G1 or the $98 HDM player that will fuel the HDM market for the holidays?

After December 4 the BD exclusive list seems pretty weak. December 4 has at least four titles that might have appeal: Cast Away, Independence Day, Mr. & Mrs. Smith and the biggie, Pirates 3. Some people may go for The Simpsons on December 18.

Bite, besides Bourne Ultimatum, what general interest title comes out HD exclusive in December?

The major format neutral releases seem to be the Harry Potter series on December 11 and Blade Runner on December 18. It would be interesting comparing head-to-head sales figures on those titles.

Hairspray and Live Free or Die Hard were really enjoyable. Bite, how are you dealing with lack of HD access to those movies? Renting or buying SD-DVD? I've order a SD-DVD copy of Bourne Ultimatum to complete the set.
post #4373 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73

"Poor" people have to decide if a $99 player is worth it considering $25 and up discs and $800 on up for a new HDTV. BTW, I hate the term "poor"; what exactly does it mean?

Ask Kolchak what "poor" exactly means, he was the one to associate "poor" people with $98 HD-DVD player and those "poor" people not being able to afford the HDM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Added thoughts

After December 4 the BD exclusive list seems pretty weak. December 4 has at least four titles that might have appeal: Cast Away, Independence Day, Mr. & Mrs. Smith and the biggie, Pirates 3. Some people may go for The Simpsons on December 18.

Bite, besides Bourne Ultimatum, what general interest title comes out HD exclusive in December?

The major format neutral releases seem to be the Harry Potter series on December 11 and Blade Runner on December 18. It would be interesting comparing head-to-head sales figures on those titles.

Hairspray and Live Free or Die Hard were really enjoyable. Bite, how are you dealing with lack of HD access to those movies? Renting or buying SD-DVD? I've order a SD-DVD copy of Bourne Ultimatum to complete the set.

I will use $1 rental service for Die Hard. I have few HDM's still on wrapper, so I need to get to them, first. I'll wait for the B1G1 from amazon and might start buying some BD exclusive titles before I get the player. I get additional 10% off on all HDM purchases from amazon and I'll try to take advantage of it before it expires. If I were to purchase on B1G1 deal, I would most likely pay about $8/Blu-Ray Movie, (20 + 20 - 4(10%)-20(B1G1) = 16 for two movies.

Anyway on the HD-DVD exclusive side, I've not checked the full list yet, but I have Stardust on my pre-order list along with Bourne series & Harry Potter. I think the Kingdom is also scheduled for Dec. release. I wanted to get the Shrek the third, but I just didn't think it was worth $28. I may just wait for the complete set, instead.
always a newbie
Reply
always a newbie
Reply
post #4374 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Your reading comprehension needs work. Do you know what "virtually" means? Virtually all≠all. Comprende?

So, the question is, if someone can buy a Toshiba with ten free movies or whatever the current offer is for the same price or as little as half of the price of the Venturer, then what's in it for the consumer or Venturer? I have to wonder how long before Venturer figures it's not worth it to fight Toshiba itself and throws in the towel.

Hahahahahahaha.

Walmart and Target are exclusively carrying the Venturer. Given their combined market dominance, it would probably be more accurate to say that "virtually all retailers are carrying the Venturer."

Your second point is the most blatant Marz-like spin I've seen you promote in this thread. Do you have any idea what it takes to get a product onto the shelves at Walmart? Read a few business mags.

If Venturer is willing to produce the kinds of numbers it takes to support Walmart, and Walmart sees the value of stocking a product in those kinds of numbers, nobody is contemplating throwing in any towels.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #4375 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Good catch on the Walmart.ca domain. But of course you know some people are going to say, "It doesn't matter where they are! It's still Walmart and that's all that counts!"

Over at AVS forums it has been confirmed that Walmart has an exclusive in Canada and Walmart and Target are sharing exclusivity in the U.S. So much for that argument.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #4376 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

No. Best Buy, Circuit City and others had similar deals off and on in recent months. Who can keep track of them anymore? More importantly, you're trying to obfuscate the point with irrelevancy. Only a little over a week ago, Toshiba's players went for half of what the Venturer does. Toshiba has huge stakes in this and will probably have similar deals in the near future. Again, the question is, if Toshiba will pour millions into this battle without really distinguishing between friend and foe, then why should Venturer continue selling HD DVD players? Should they discount their own players as heavily and fall on their sword for Toshiba's benefit?

Isn't Sony doing the same thing to their fellow Blu-Ray player makers by selling a $399 Blu-Ray player that also happens to be an entire freakin' gaming console? {EDIT} looks like bitemymac beat me to the punch.
post #4377 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

So, you're poor and able to afford $399/$499 Blu-Ray player and few $20 HDM's. Good for you, and I'm sure you're not the only fortunate sole. Poor people buying $98 HD-DVD players should be able to afford even more of those $20 HDM's with savings from going with $98 HD-DVD player.


I THINK you caught the irony

however you missed the part where i said "According to government figures I'm BELOW the poverty line"

there is a difference between that and being poor i think you would find, but of course you seem to have more money than you know what to do with
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
post #4378 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

This really must be a tough call for all hardware manufacturers, but at least the poor people can now afford to join the HDM market due to competitive pricing.

oh don't be so sure about that, I mean they ARE poor an all
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
post #4379 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Isn't Sony doing the same thing to their fellow Blu-Ray player makers by selling a $399 Blu-Ray player that also happens to be an entire freakin' gaming console? {EDIT} looks like bitemymac beat me to the punch.

The thing is one has a chance to turn a profit on a competing $399 device but a LOT less so on an $98 device, or would you and bite disagree with that?
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
post #4380 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Good catch on the Walmart.ca domain. But of course you know some people are going to say, "It doesn't matter where they are! It's still Walmart and that's all that counts!"


It's still walmart and thats all that counts!
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
post #4381 of 4651
post #4382 of 4651
Thread Starter 
A little late, but...

Quote:
Euro HD DVD camp clams up on format sales figures

By Tony Smith, The Register.co.uk
14th November 2007 11:22 GMT

Editors' Blog
The European HD DVD Promotional Group has refused to back up claims that the next-generation optical disc format it's backing is the movie buff's favourite by revealing how many HD DVD players have been bought over here.

Register Hardware asked it this question because earlier this week the organisation announced that numbers garnered independently by local market watcher GfK showed that 3.8 HD DVD discs have been sold for every player purchased in the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy and the Benelux countries.

By contrast, only 0.6 Blu-ray Discs have been sold for every BD-capable player and console bought in those regions.

So HD DVD is the most popular format then? Well, not necessarily - it all depends on the number of units of each type of playback device that have been sold.

Yes, HD DVD backers may, on average, have purchased 3.8 discs each. But if there are only a hundred of them, that's just 380 discs. If Sony has shipped more than a million PlayStation 3s in Europe, that's 600,000 discs - rather more than 380.

Now which is the most popular format, in terms of disc sales?

Of course, rather more than 100 HD DVD playback devices have been sold in Europe to date, but the it's very telling that the European HD DVD PG won't say how many.

"Unfortunately, we aren’t releasing total sales numbers because we feel that it is early days for both formats compared to DVD," a European HD DVD PG spokeswoman told us.
\t\t
In short, the organisation doesn't want comparisons being drawn with 'old technology' DVD sales, let alone its rival HD format.

Its unwillingness to release hard data leads us to believe that right now the vast majority of European consumers are not interested in HD DVD. They're probably not interested in Blu-ray either, but so big has been the take up of the PS3, in comparison to HD DVD, that it's building momentum. The upcoming cheap, 40GB PS3 will only drive this trend harder.

Register Hardware is bi-partisan - we can see advantages and failings in both formats. But if the European HD DVD Promotional Group really is confident its format will be successful, it should have the courage to come clean on the numbers. That it doesn't, speaks volumes.

Now, at the risk of sounding like Marz:

Quote:
Onkyo DV-HD805, the phantom HD DVD

By: Gian Luca Di Felice
AVMagazine.it, Nov. 26, 2007

The first Onkyo HD DVD player has been available in Italy for a few days now, but it can already be considered as a collector's item, because there are very few units in existence, and Onkyo has stopped its production.

We were waiting for a unit of the first Onkyo HD DVD player, the DV-HD805, for review on the pages of AV Magazine. After a conversation with Tecnofuturo, the Brescia-based Italian distributor of the Japanese manufacturer, we decided in mutual agreement that it was not worth the trouble. The reasons are quickly explained: the DV-HD805 is no other than a rebranded Toshiba HD-XE1 HD DVD player, which is already compatible with streaming of all lossless multichannel HD codecs via HDMI 1.3, and there are only few units of it available.

In view of the new marketing policy being applied by Toshiba, consisting of sinking the price of its own players, Onkyo has difficulty in positioning its own player (the Europe list price is 899 euros) and has therefore decided to stop production. The scarce units produced have been redistributed in varios markets. It has been known that barely 11 units arrived in Italy, and no others will come. Germany has been more fortunate, with 20 units, and Spain will receive none.

As to why it was decided not to review such a product, apart from its being a clone, it won't be effectively be available on the market (the 11 Italian units are already sold). We thank Tecnofuturo for such a quick communication and we apologize to the enthusiasts. Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player. We'll have other news and more confirmation during the upcoming CES at Las Vegas.
post #4383 of 4651
Sh*t I was hoping Onkyo would be smarter, and go the other way. They'll probably end up scraping HD-DVD anyway. Now I have to wait to see what Kenwood does. Most of my stereo components are Onkyo, but I do mix others. I have a sony DVD carousel, and I guess I'll have to wait for Sony to release one for BR. I was hoping for Onkyo, or Kenwood though. I guess Kenwood is still a possibility.
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
post #4384 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

The thing is one has a chance to turn a profit on a competing $399 device but a LOT less so on an $98 device, or would you and bite disagree with that?

Whether they can make a profit at $399 or not, very few standalone Blu-Ray players are being sold because Sony offers far more bang for the buck with the PS3. I don't think you'll see HD DVD players at $98 again anytime soon anyhow; that seemed to be more or less a one-time deal. Regardless, even if Toshiba wasn't the only manufacturer of HD DVD players, I don't believe it would help their format in terms of sales.

The general public doesn't seem to care that much about picture quality, at least not enough to pay extra for it. If it comes as a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow, great. But otherwise, they can live just fine without it. I imagine the vast majority of HDTV owners didn't buy them for high definition content, but rather because a.) they wanted a big televisions and b.) you can't walk out of Best Buy anymore with a big television that doesn't also happen to be HD. The same is probably true with HD movies; most people aren't going to go out of their way for an HDM set up which requires a special player and special discs, but if it just so happens to be a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow (like a PS3), then they might as well buy the discs.

Blu-Ray doesn't have a 2:1 lead because people just love love love them some super-awesome blu-ray technology; it's leading because it's an "oh by the way" feature of something that was going to sell millions of units regardless. Consumers aren't choosing either format. If Microsoft had made an HD DVD drive standard on the xBox 360, then HD DVD would be in the lead. It's really not a lead to be proud of, in my opinion.
post #4385 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Whether they can make a profit at $399 or not, very few standalone Blu-Ray players are being sold because Sony offers far more bang for the buck with the PS3. I don't think you'll see HD DVD players at $98 again anytime soon anyhow; that seemed to be more or less a one-time deal. Regardless, even if Toshiba wasn't the only manufacturer of HD DVD players, I don't believe it would help their format in terms of sales.

I went for a standalone BD player because the PS3 didn't do 7.1 analogue plus the player had 5-discs in the box. Instant gratification one might say. Since then I hit SWMBO in a weak moment and have upgraded to a HDMI receiver.

IMO Sony is willing to loose money on the PS3 in order to keep it viable until until killer games are out and it can stand on its own as a game player. On the other hand it's hard to see how Toshiba is making money with low price players. But who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

The general public doesn't seem to care that much about picture quality, at least not enough to pay extra for it. If it comes as a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow, great. But otherwise, they can live just fine without it. I imagine the vast majority of HDTV owners didn't buy them for high definition content, but rather because a.) they wanted a big televisions and b.) you can't walk out of Best Buy anymore with a big television that doesn't also happen to be HD. The same is probably true with HD movies; most people aren't going to go out of their way for an HDM set up which requires a special player and special discs, but if it just so happens to be a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow (like a PS3), then they might as well buy the discs.

The good-enough factor enters in here when it comes to SD-DVD. Also figures I saw a month or so ago showed 18.1% households have HDTV while only 4% had a HDM player. I don't know if the PS3 and xBox were included in the latter figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Blu-Ray doesn't have a 2:1 lead because people just love love love them some super-awesome blu-ray technology; it's leading because it's an "oh by the way" feature of something that was going to sell millions of units regardless. Consumers aren't choosing either format. If Microsoft had made an HD DVD drive standard on the xBox 360, then HD DVD would be in the lead. It's really not a lead to be proud of, in my opinion.

Maybe on the xBox but again, who knows.

I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.
post #4386 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.

I agree. So long as I can enjoy gorgeous HD films, I don't much care what the rest of the world watches I don't have a death wish for a particular format either, and it's been my intention all along to go neutral at some point; I just started with HD DVD because 1.) it was half the price and 2.) it had more of the movies I wanted at the time. It's possible that HDM won't go mainstream until you can no longer buy a DVD player that doesn't also happen to play HDM media, just like HDTVs didn't really take off until it was about all you could buy if you wanted a big television.
post #4387 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Sh*t I was hoping Onkyo would be smarter, and go the other way. They'll probably end up scraping HD-DVD anyway. Now I have to wait to see what Kenwood does. Most of my stereo components are Onkyo, but I do mix others. I have a sony DVD carousel, and I guess I'll have to wait for Sony to release one for BR. I was hoping for Onkyo, or Kenwood though. I guess Kenwood is still a possibility.

Didn't you notice the last paragraph where the article says, "Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player"?
post #4388 of 4651
missed that thanks.
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
post #4389 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.

I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.

Of course, having two HDM optical formats may slow things down a little, but at least the HDM choices are becoming more affordable at faster pace than anyone had imagined. All in all, once both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies get transfered to the HDD, it is just HDM, free from being associated with an optical disc format.
always a newbie
Reply
always a newbie
Reply
post #4390 of 4651
Looks like another week of very poor and few releases for HD DVD versus a large number of very good releases for Blu-Ray. I expect to see marzetta7 back here in a week and a half with 7 to 3 sales figures, along with his obligatory speech about how consumers are choosing blu-ray hand over fist, how HD DVD hasn't "won" a week all year, how Warner's going to drop neutrality any day now and go with the technically superior format, and how not even lower-priced players can save HD DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.

Of course, having two HDM optical formats may slow things down a little, but at least the HDM choices are becoming more affordable at faster pace than anyone had imagined. All in all, once both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies get transfered to the HDD, it is just HDM, free from being associated with an optical disc format.

The good news is DVDs and HDM media are all physically the same size, so in 3-5 years it could very well be possible that when you walk into a store to buy a DVD player to replace your old model that just bit the dust, the DVD player you walk out with also happens to play HDM media. Just like buying a big screen television now automatically gets you an HDTV, buying a DVD player in a few years may automatically get you an HDM player. I imagine this may be the only way that HDM will really become mainstream. In a world where people connect their upconverting DVD players and HD satellite receivers to their HDTVS with RCA cables, there's really not a huge for demand or need superior formats.
post #4391 of 4651
Haha nice. I guess that saves Marz the trouble!

Cheers
:P
post #4392 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

Haha nice. I guess that saves Marz the trouble!

Cheers
:P

Indeed! Thanks Cory. But I'll still let you know the Nielsen figures.
post #4393 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Indeed! Thanks Cory. But I'll still let you know the Nielsen figures.

You have to, it's your job after all
post #4394 of 4651
Enderle - "Blu-ray Is Sony's Iraq" - WTH!?

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Z...eek-60557.html

Quote:
...As expected, HD DVD sold very well and continues to show very good numbers during the holiday buying season. In looking back at the amount of pain this thing has caused Sony, I couldn't help but compare it to the U.S. and Iraq.

Think about it -- if Donald Rumsfeld, then the Secretary of Defense, had gone to George Bush and said, "Hey, we need to invade Iraq and the result will be I'll lose my job, most of the generals and advisers you currently have will resign or lose their jobs, you'll kill more U.S. soldiers than any president in near-term U.S. history, you'll lose Congress to the Democrats, you'll almost assure Hillary Clinton will be your successor, you'll restart the Cold War, you'll devalue the U.S. dollar to the lowest level in recent history, you'll go down in history as probably the dumbest U.S. president ever, and you'll be locked into an incredibly expensive battle you won't either be able to leave or win," you'd have to believe that George would have said no.

And not just no, but "hell no, no way, noppers, negatory, not doing it, get the hell out of my office and don't come back."

Now look at Blu-ray. Since bringing it out, Sony has trashed its PlayStation division, had to downsize a number of top executives including the guy that was credited with creating the PlayStation's success in the first place. The company's financial performance has largely dropped into the toilet and it has had to sell off parts of the company to Toshiba, the company behind the other format. Key studios have abandoned it, some of which have gaming properties that probably now won't go to PlayStation. Sony has nearly assured that whatever country gets the next media format, it won't be Japan and probably will be China, it will be constantly reminded of the Betamax mistake, Nintendo is No. 1 in the gaming segment, and it'll be locked into a battle it can neither win nor exit from. You'd have to believe that the guy making the proposal would be chased by ninjas out of the office and his ending wouldn't have been a good one.

Oh, and one other similarity: If you point out that the Iraq war was brain-dead stupid, you are seen as a terrorist sympathizer; if you point out that Blu-ray was brain-dead stupid, you are portrayed as being on Toshiba or Microsoft's payroll. I still don't get the Microsoft thing, since neither it nor Intel (Nasdaq: INTC) seems to care that much one way or the other now, and both are focused more on downloads. It gives me a lot of empathy for the kid in the Emperor-has-no-clothes Fairy Tale.

This HD DVD guy has now officially taken his comments too far. This guy is very deserving of the flame he'll be receiving in a few seconds.

Ridiculous. I don't know what else to say. Ridiculous.
post #4395 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Enderle - "Blu-ray Is Sony's Iraq" - WTH!?

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Z...eek-60557.html

This HD DVD guy has now officially taken his comments too far. This guy is very deserving of the flame he'll be receiving in a few seconds.

Ridiculous. I don't know what else to say. Ridiculous.

I actually agree with the Iraq part, but I think that Sony will win after a bit of short term pain, so it is a bit different from Iraq.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #4396 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Enderle - "Blu-ray Is Sony's Iraq" - WTH!?

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Z...eek-60557.html

This HD DVD guy has now officially taken his comments too far. This guy is very deserving of the flame he'll be receiving in a few seconds.

Ridiculous. I don't know what else to say. Ridiculous.


Haha...

This isn't as bad as what Bill Hunt writes.
always a newbie
Reply
always a newbie
Reply
post #4397 of 4651
IMO, it doesn't matter if you are for or against the War in Iraq we care currently engulfed in, but I don't think anyone ought to compare or make analogies of the format war to a real war where men and women in the armed services are sacrificing their lives. IMO, it is just plain wrong and more than a bit messed up. What kinda douche does this?

Bitemymac, if you are attempting to defend what Mr. Enderle is stating here, I can see why facts and logic are lost on you, that's all I have to say. If this isn't your intention, at the very least provide some quantifiable proof as to why you think Bill Hunt says anything in the realm of how poor in taste this article is.
post #4398 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

IMO, it doesn't matter if you are for or against the War in Iraq we care currently engulfed in, but I don't think anyone ought to compare or make analogies of the format war to a real war where men and women in the armed services are sacrificing their lives. IMO, it is just plain wrong and more than a bit messed up. What kinda douche does this?

Bitemymac, if you are attempting to defend what Mr. Enderle is stating here, I can see why facts and logic are lost on you, that's all I have to say. If this isn't your intention, at the very least provide some quantifiable proof as to why you think Bill Hunt says anything in the realm of how poor in taste this article is.

That is a steaming load - so you can't talk about how badly things are going over there because people are dying? The people dying are a big part of the "things going badly over there".

And I think that the comparison is entirely appropriate - both situations involved people making big bets and not having them come out as expected, and the initiators probably would have done things differently had they known what was in store for them.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #4399 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.

...

.

While at some point studios may have a SD-DVD phase out strategy, if there's overwhelming consumer rejection of HDM they may not be able to implement it. Given the lackluster support of HD studios for December and BD ones after 4 December, one has to wonder how totally committed studios are to HDM. The Christmas buying season is when many people make impulse purchases and the lack of quality December titles beyond Harry Potter and Blade Runner makes one wonder as to what's going on with the studios. It doesn't seem like they're putting much resources behind HDM.
post #4400 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

That is a steaming load - so you can't talk about how badly things are going over there because people are dying? The people dying are a big part of the "things going badly over there".

And I think that the comparison is entirely appropriate - both situations involved people making big bets and not having them come out as expected, and the initiators probably would have done things differently had they known what was in store for them.

I would say that as a supposed respectable journalist on technology, no, you don't make light of the sacrifice men and women in the military give and compare it to a silly format war. The analogy is in very, very poor taste IMO. I certainly did NOT say you CAN'T talk about how badly things are going IYO (as things appear to be turning around in Iraq), but I'm simply stating that I think he crossed a line comparing the two in his poor taste, and honestly, he best be prepared to face the consequences of such poor taste. Imus anyone?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007)