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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007) - Page 113

post #4481 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

AACS is part of both standards right? That means no HD-DVD either.

I don't understand this news though. Blu-Ray drives exist on the PC, and Toshiba's shipping HD-DVD drives with their laptops. Does anyone know if Redmond hard-coded the protection scheme in the Windows kernel?

I don't know. Macbidouille says that the PC experience (in which case the protection has already been breached) made them to harden their position and approach as far as content locking is concerned. I have no idea what is the situation in the Windows side.
post #4482 of 4651
Business Week: Blu-ray Is Winning

http://www.tvpredictions.com/business120707.htm

Quote:
The publication says it [Blu-ray] could get Warner endorsement.

Washington, D.C. (December 7, 2007) -- Blu-ray has emerged as the clear front runner in the high-def DVD format war against HD DVD.

That's according to an analysis published today by Business Week magazine.

The publication, which has considerable influence in the financial world, writes that Blu-ray still holds the greatest support among Hollywood studios. Four major studios now back Blu-ray exclusively while only two support HD DVD exclusively.

Consequently, Business Week says, the Sony-backed Blu-ray disc has outsold HD DVD by roughly 2-1 for the past year.

Additionally, the publication reports that Sony may be close to landing an exclusive endorsement from Warner Bros., which until now has released films in both formats.

"The rumor is that Warner is coming aboard soon," Michael Burns, vice-chairman of Blu-ray supporter Lionsgate, tells Business Week. "That will make it awfully tough for HD DVD to stay in this game."


Business Week added that "either side could (win the Warner endorsement)...but the Sony group has suddenly emerged as the front runner."

"Persuading it (Warner) to sign an exclusive deal would give the Sony crowd about 70% of DVD market share. That could prompt the other studios to abandon HD DVD," the publication writes.

Business Week notes that if Warner were to join HD DVD, the format war would be stalemated.

"That could create mass consumer confusion and potentially strangle a new technology that the studios hope will give a lift to flagging DVD sales. That's exactly why Warner has long pushed for a single format," it said.

Here's hoping that the rumor is true...and the sooner we can all start enjoying Blu-ray discs in our Macs.
post #4483 of 4651
Ahhh...like I've stated before, Warner has choices here...

1) Choose Blu-ray: Become widely recognized as the studio who single handily saved the high-def market by putting Blu-ray over the top. Be recognized as a studio who has consumer's interests in mind by relying on sales trends and facts. In addition become a hugely lucrative studio, enjoying royalties from the BDA at an increased clip due to more consumers diving into the high-def arena with one clear winner.

2) Choose HD DVD: Become widely recognized as the studio who single handily drove the high-def market into oblivion. Probably not the move that is in their best interest as it would assuredly stagnate the market and put it in a perpetual stalemate, thus effecting their bottom line negatively in the amount of mass sales.

3) Stay Neutral: Prolong the inevitable victory of Blu-ray while incurring additional costs by supporting both and having to continue to neuter their encodes due to the space limitations on HD DVD--a simple fact that will reflect on Warner badly in terms of the PQ and AQ they provide to the end consumer.

...Personally, #1 makes all the sense in the world for them from a business perspective. I honestly don't see them making the other two choices, even with HUGE payoffs, as the consequences of such as I previously mentioned will hit them directly and negatively.

Anyhow, here's hoping the rumor is true...
post #4484 of 4651
Next-Gen DVDs: Advantage, Sony

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...3028294846.htm

Quote:
It's a fight with more plot twists and intrigue than a Hollywood thriller. For two years now, rival camps have been battling over which new DVD format will prevail: Blu-ray, which is backed by Sony (SNE) and a consortium of 170 other companies, or HD DVD, which is being championed by Toshiba (TOSBF), Microsoft (MSFT), and others. Both technologies promise crisper video that looks better on the new generation of flat-panel, high-definition TVs. And the winner stands to control a lucrative new market worth billions. Each side has been competing to win the backing of the major movie studios. Only Warner Bros. (TWX), which currently uses both formats, is still playing hard to get.

Now, with the Jan. 7 International Consumer Electronics Show fast approaching, Sony and Toshiba are keen to announce they have won over Hollywood's last holdout. In the meantime, they are falling over themselves to woo Warner. While either side could prevail, the Sony group has suddenly emerged as the front-runner.

Why? Because despite a setback this summer when the HD DVD companies signed up Paramount Pictures (VIA) and DreamWorks Animation (DWA), the Blu-ray forces have still lined up more studios than the HD DVD side. Plus this year, the Sony team has sold more than twice as many discs. "The rumor is that Warner is coming aboard soon," says Michael Burns, vice-chairman of studio Lionsgate (LGF), which makes its movies available on the Sony-backed format. "That will make it awfully tough for HD DVD to stay in this game." (Sony declined to comment, and Toshiba only would say it is "in regular contact with the studios.")

From the beginning, the two camps' overarching strategy has been the same: getting access to as many movies as possible. It isn't hard to see why. Consumers will buy the new technology only if they believe most of the films they want will be available.

Right now the Blu-ray team has enough studios on boardamong them Disney (DIS), Fox (NWS), and, of course, Sonyto account for about 49% of current DVD market share. Warner is a prolific film factory, releasing as many as 30 pictures a year, including those produced by sister studio New Line Cinema. Persuading it to sign an exclusive deal would give the Sony crowd about 70% of DVD market share. That could prompt the other studios to abandon HD DVD.

On the other hand, if Toshiba were to win Warner's hand, the two forces would divide the market between them. That could create mass consumer confusion and potentially strangle a new technology that the studios hope will give a lift to flagging DVD sales. That's exactly why Warner has long pushed for a single format.

WOOING WARNER

The battle has heated up since HD DVD got Paramount and DreamWorks Animation. Both sides have been beating a path to Warner's Burbank (Calif.) doorstep. Yoshihide Fujii, the head of Toshiba's HD DVD business in Japan, has made three trips to the U.S. since the summer, say those with knowledge of the situation. And while Andrew House, Sony's chief marketing officer, has been pressing the Blu-ray case, the stakes are sufficiently high that Sony CEO Howard Stringer has been making personal appeals to Richard Parsons and Jeffrey Bewkes, the two top executives at Warner parent Time Warner (TWX).

Toshiba is pressing the case that because its technology is cheaper, it will more quickly become a mass-market product. According to the DVD Release Report, an industry newsletter, the suggested retail price of an HD DVD is $31.74, nearly $2 less than Blu-ray's suggested price. (Retailers traditionally cut the price to less than $29.) Toshiba also has been cutting the price of its players, slashing its entry-level machine to $299 earlier this year.

It was price that prompted DreamWorks Animation and Paramount to throw in their lot with HD DVD earlier this summer. (Like Warner, Paramount had previously backed both formats.) "The game-changer for us was the hardware costs dramatically coming down to where it could succeed broadly for the consumer," says DreamWorks Animation CEO Jeffrey Katzenberg. "In addition, the software manufacturing costs in the future would be significantly lower than Blu-ray." Of course, it didn't hurt that Toshiba agreed to pay Paramount and DreamWorks Animation a combined $150 million in incentives, including money to license DreamWorks' Shrek character for marketing purposes.

The Blu-ray faction insists there is no burning reason for it to match HD DVD's prices. "We think Warner will respond to the fact that our greater number of titles gives us a greater likelihood of being the single standard," says Andy Parsons, who leads the Blu-ray lobbying effort. But another executive backing Blu-ray, who didn't want to be identified, expects the imminent arrival of a sub-$300 Blu-ray machine.

What's more, Hollywood insiders say the $150 million that the Toshiba group showered on Paramount and DreamWorks Animation radically changed the game. These people suggest the Blu-ray team is so determined to win that it will throw hundreds of millions of dollars of marketing support behind Blu-ray equipment if Warner gets on board.

Warner isn't talking, but people close to the situation say the studio is waiting to see which group sells more of the new-fangled DVD players this holiday season. "Warner wants one of the two sides to make a commitment to getting this format into as many hands as possible," says a studio executive with knowledge of its thinking.

So far Toshiba has eked out a lead. According to industry tracker Adams Media Research, by the end of this year as many as 578,000 U.S. households will own HD DVD players, compared with 370,000 that have Blu-ray players. Adams also estimates there are 300,000 more HD DVD players in circulation inside Microsoft Xbox game consoles. But that still pales in comparison to the estimated 4 million Blu-ray-equipped Sony PlayStation 3 consoles sold in the U.S.

The Blu-ray side has another advantage. Disney caters to families, who buy lots of older films for their kids. That could help the format build critical mass. "The Blu-ray customer is more likely to build a new library," says market researcher Richard Doherty. "Studios live for [that]."

That leaves one question. If the Sony camp wins Warner, will the other studios ditch HD DVD? They're not saying. But Dreamworks Animation and Paramount only signed on with the Toshiba side for 18 months. So then they could take the money and run.

^^^Original article...my emphasis added.
post #4485 of 4651
First it was...

"the Playstation 3 guarantees Blu-Ray a win!"

Then it became...

"More studios like the format (for its DRM) that guarantees Blu-Ray a win"

Then it became...

"50GB of space guarantees Blu-Ray a win"


Now it's become...

"Warner shifting to Blu-Ray guarantees a win"


You've got to love Blu-Rayers, if just for their consistency.
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post #4486 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

First it was...

"the Playstation 3 guarantees Blu-Ray a win!"

Then it became...

"More studios like the format (for its DRM) that guarantees Blu-Ray a win"

Then it became...

"50GB of space guarantees Blu-Ray a win"


Now it's become...

"Warner shifting to Blu-Ray guarantees a win"


You've got to love Blu-Rayers, if just for their consistency.

Fact: Blu-ray IS winning.

The PS3, Disc Capacity, Studios are all part of why it is.
post #4487 of 4651


no one posted this yet i think
post #4488 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

First it was...

"the Playstation 3 guarantees Blu-Ray a win!"

Then it became...

"More studios like the format (for its DRM) that guarantees Blu-Ray a win"

Then it became...

"50GB of space guarantees Blu-Ray a win"


Now it's become...

"Warner shifting to Blu-Ray guarantees a win"


You've got to love Blu-Rayers, if just for their consistency.

Considering the raft of shit news for HD-DVD, I would say that blu-ray is heading for a win. Do you care to differ?

And if so, could I suggest that you dont invest in lottery tickets any time soon.
post #4489 of 4651
HD DVD told: 'you're missing the boat'
Asher Moses
December 4, 2007 - 10:54AM

Video Ezy and Blockbuster have thrown their support behind Blu-ray, saying HD DVD was "missing the boat" and not taking the Australian market seriously enough.

As both high-definition disc format camps face an uphill battle convincing consumers of the benefits from upgrading their regular DVD players, in-store marketing support from retailers and rental stores is crucial.

Paul Uniacke, managing director of the Franchise Entertainment Group, which owns Video Ezy and Blockbuster in Australia, said the local roll-out of HD DVD had been too slow as its supporters did not see Australia as an important market compared with the US and Europe.

"Without meaning to be disrespectful, it's probably how they see this territory in terms of their bottom line," he said, adding the HD DVD side was quickly "missing the boat".

So far neither format is dominating in Australia but, thanks to the PlayStation 3 games consoles (PS3), Blu-ray has a commanding lead. Both sides are offering bundles with free movies and slashing prices to entice Christmas shoppers - the Toshiba HD-E1 HD DVD player, after a $100 rebate, now costs $499.

According to market-watcher GfK, 2241 stand-alone Blu-ray players have been sold in Australia to date, compared with 609 HD DVD players.

But Sony has moved more than 100,000 units of the PS3, which has a built-in Blu-ray player. Only 2461 add-on HD DVD players for the Xbox 360, which cost $249.95, have been sold so far.

The trend in player sales is consistent with sales of HD movies. More than 102,000 Blu-ray movies have been sold to date, as against just under 18,000 HD DVD movies.

Uniacke said most of the 870 Blockbuster and Video Ezy stores in Australia stocked Blu-ray titles, but most did not stock HD DVD titles.

Blockbuster in the US has supported Blu-ray exclusively for months and, locally, its head of product, John McKay, said Blockbuster would buy only Blu-ray titles "for the foreseeable future".

In an announcement made today, Sony said 40-inch LCD televisions connected to Blu-ray players and PS3s would be installed initially in close to 250 Video Ezy and Blockbuster stores across the country to promote the format.

Michele Garra, chairwoman of the local Blu-ray working group, said the deal was a sign that Blu-ray and high definition generally were hitting the mainstream.

"It has really been driven by the sales of the big-screen displays ... they really are an everyman product," she said.

Liz van Hooven, managing director of HD DVD backer Universal Pictures, acknowledged the format had been slow to take off in Australia but said Uniacke was "just making a generalised point without really knowing the future and the direction that this format is going to take".

She said price would be the deciding factor in the format war and HD DVD players would always start at a lower price point than Blu-ray. Toshiba was set to release two new HD DVD players next year.

Uniacke said the door was still open for HD DVD but the Blu-ray kiosks were "quite large" (1.8 metres high and 1.6 metres wide), so it was highly unlikely HD DVD kiosks could feasibly be installed as well.

"We're not saying that we won't support HD DVD, that's for sure, but they've got a lot of catch-up work and the longer they leave it the more these deals will come across the line."

He said his stores had faced significant difficulty when trying to obtain HD DVD movies and derided Paramount, which recently ditched Blu-ray to support HD DVD exclusively, for releasing the HD DVD version of Transformers a month behind the DVD version.

He said the late releases were harming the format's chances in Australia significantly, but the delays weren't present in the US or European markets.

"The momentum's gone - all of our advertising has been spent in driving the DVD [and] you're not going to put marketing dollars into something that is four weeks behind and has limited hardware [support] in this country," he said.

By contrast, Sony Pictures released Spider-Man 3 on Blu-ray in Australia on the same day it was released on DVD.

The Blu-ray format's early lead was helped by significant delays in bringing HD DVD players to the Australian market. Movie studios were reluctant to put discs on store shelves when the associated players were thin on the ground.

Today, 3 HD DVD players (all Toshiba models) and 11 Blu-ray models are on sale in Australia.

Sony said 156 Blu-ray titles had been released so far and 71 more would be out by the end of February.

A spokesman for Toshiba, the main backer of HD DVD and co-ordinator of the local consortium of HD DVD supporters, was unavailable for comment.


This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/...530626138.html

By my rough calculations thats about an 83-17 split between blu-ray and HD-DVD. Low numbers but hey, sounds like HD-DVD doesn't really give a shit.
post #4490 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by mania View Post



no one posted this yet i think


hmm.... and 58:42 is with B1G1 Blu-Ray HDM deals?
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post #4491 of 4651
Thread Starter 
1. Note the week-ending date. The BOGO offer is this week, not a week ago.

2. You really should make up your mind. You always try to downplay Blu-ray's Videoscan percentage by claiming they show minimal effects from BOGO offers, while at the same time try to undermine Videoscan figures by saying they don't include Amazon (where the offers almost always ran). Either they're part of Videoscan or they're not. You can't have it both ways.
post #4492 of 4651
hmm... I thought Blu-Ray B1G1 promotion/sales have been going on for last two months? ( feel free the correct me, I don't follow Blu-Ray so close)

BTW, B1G1 deal is not limited to only amazon. Amazon is just one of the shops offering B1G1 Blu-Ray HDM's. The videoscan figures to me is worthless for many reasons, but I was just quoting what was shown on the pie chart.

At the current HDM market size, every figure is insignificant and anyone claiming victory is a fool. Still need time for HDM market to grow a little.
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post #4493 of 4651
I'm just glad I picked up my PS3 in time for unreal tournament.
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post #4494 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Um...they sold HD DVD players for only ONE WEEKEND at a $99 price, and sold more that weekend than the entire previous year combined. Logic would dictate that once the sub-$99 price becomes the norm instead of a 48-hour sale, they could move as many standalone players a week as Sony does PS3s..

Yes, and if they gave them away with every packet of Doritos they could shift even more.

I cannot see HD-DVD manufacturers falling over themselves to produce 99 dollar HD-DVD players any time soon, anymore than Blu-Ray manufacturers.

PS3 will be down to 199 or 99 dollars in a few years anyway, so HD-DVD better hurry up.
post #4495 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by womblingfree View Post

Yes, and if they gave them away with every packet of Doritos they could shift even more.

True.

Interesting point re-illustrated over on Roughly drafted about the VALUE people perceive something has, he talks at one point about the iPhone and how, if Apple gave them away for free with a contract, they wouldn't be able to sell the iPod touch because people would think "why buy that when the iPhone is "free"? "

I wonder how the "cheap" HD-DVD not being as valued an item psychology factor is making buyers opt for a "more expensive" and therefore "more valuable" device?

like the old motto "buy at a high price, buy once" which is I'm sure at least a factor in the decision when one buys a Mac

is it a factor in the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray choice?
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post #4496 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

is it a factor in the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray choice?

No. $40-$99 is what people expect to pay for a movie player, as that's what they've been paying for VCRs and DVD players for years. The thought of spending $199 to $999 on a disc player probably seems absurd to most people.
post #4497 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

No. $40-$99 is what people expect to pay for a movie player, as that's what they've been paying for VCRs and DVD players for years. The thought of spending $199 to $999 on a disc player probably seems absurd to most people.

VCR's were a pretty penny actually (£600) in the 70's when they came out, like $400.00 - $600.00 (which is like spending 1,200.00 or more today) and so were DVD players. Actually I think DVD players were a lot more than their High Def counterparts.
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post #4498 of 4651
You can bet that both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the HD DVD Promotion Group are salivating at Warner right now. Here's my take:

If Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive, HD DVD is toast. Paramount/Viacom and DreamWorks Animation will want out of their HD DVD exclusive contracts, and NBC Universal will be forced to release Blu-ray Disc titles, too. Since the HD DVD install base in the US is far smaller than Blu-ray's install base (when you count PlayStation 3), any hope for saving the HD DVD format would be dead.

If Warner goes HD DVD exclusive, Blu-ray will survive only as a gaming disc platform. All the studios, even Sony Pictures, will then go on the HD DVD bandwagon for movie releases, leaving Blu-ray as a gaming-only disc for PlayStation 3 games.

My bet is that Warner will go Blu-ray Disc due to the larger install base... and I think that Sony, Panasonic, Philips, and other Blu-ray backers will give them a boatload of cash to drop HD DVD. But don't count out HD DVD entirely... remember, Time Warner owns several HD DVD-related patents (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Blu-ray Disc Association gives them a bunch of money to transfer the HD DVD-related patents to a third party like Samsung).
post #4499 of 4651
Warner started as HD-DVD exclusive until Sony told Warner that PS3 will take over the world. It didn't happen after a year. It recently just passed 2.5 million PS3 units in the US in a year. What's even more interesting is that 2.5 million units of PS3 + 500K Standalone Blu-Ray player can merely lead the HDM sales, against 750K Standalone HD-DVD players, even in the insignificant HDM market size. It requires special HDM sales event like B1G1 to keep the Blu-Ray HDM sales lead.

Of course, on the HD-DVD side, we have cheaper HD-DVD hardwares in the sub $200.

It's interesting time for the HDM market because both HDM format supporters are not doing well as either side has projected.

If I were to predict Warner's action towards the HDM market, Warner will stay neutral little longer and will monitor market swings more closely.

I think the enthusiasts market will be pretty saturated by end of this year, so anyone marketing their products for the informed/advanced consumers will start pulling ahead. This is where $199 price tag plays a big roll.

However, with current gas price & the economy conditions deteriorating may keep the HDM market in the niche for even longer time.

Oh well.... this isn't the first niche product I've supported.
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post #4500 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

However, with current gas price & the economy conditions deteriorating may keep the HDM market in the niche for even longer time.

Oh well.... this isn't the first niche product I've supported.


This is the bullseye here. I walk into target and I'm seeing Blu-ray and HD DVD movies as high as 34.98. The recent best selling DVDs are 13.78. It's easy to do the math here. Neither format offers such a significant experience over DVD that consumers are willing to spend %60.

This whole battle has been a fckn farce. Both sides are crowing about sales and eventually winning (which many in this thread suck the swill happily) but the reality is the players aren't moving unless they're giving away heaps of movies when compared to DVD sales.

The economy is not good..housing and fuel prices have stifled alot of entertainment expenditures yet the studios blindly trudge forward with outlandish pricing thinking that low cost "razors" will suddenly make the expensive razorblades more palatable to the public. Wake up.
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post #4501 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNtel iNside View Post

You can bet that both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the HD DVD Promotion Group are salivating at Warner right now. Here's my take:

If Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive, HD DVD is toast. Paramount/Viacom and DreamWorks Animation will want out of their HD DVD exclusive contracts, and NBC Universal will be forced to release Blu-ray Disc titles, too. Since the HD DVD install base in the US is far smaller than Blu-ray's install base (when you count PlayStation 3), any hope for saving the HD DVD format would be dead.

If Warner goes HD DVD exclusive, Blu-ray will survive only as a gaming disc platform. All the studios, even Sony Pictures, will then go on the HD DVD bandwagon for movie releases, leaving Blu-ray as a gaming-only disc for PlayStation 3 games.

My bet is that Warner will go Blu-ray Disc due to the larger install base... and I think that Sony, Panasonic, Philips, and other Blu-ray backers will give them a boatload of cash to drop HD DVD. But don't count out HD DVD entirely... remember, Time Warner owns several HD DVD-related patents (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Blu-ray Disc Association gives them a bunch of money to transfer the HD DVD-related patents to a third party like Samsung).

Sounds about right. I would add though that I'd be very surprised if the successor to the xBox 360's games didn't come on 51GB HD DVD discs; I just can't see Microsoft shipping games on Sony's PS3 format of choice in 3-4 years from now. Even if they don't, it'd be a good idea for the optical drive in the next xBox to be a combo player of all formats; in the event that HD DVD goes the way of the Dodo they wouldn't be leaving their supporters out in the cold.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

The economy is not good..housing and fuel prices have stifled alot of entertainment expenditures yet the studios blindly trudge forward with outlandish pricing thinking that low cost "razors" will suddenly make the expensive razorblades more palatable to the public. Wake up.

The studios probably perceive the HD formats as nothing more than a way to charge $10-$15 more per disc, so for them to make the discs affordable would defeat the purpose in their minds.
post #4502 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


The studios probably perceive the HD formats as nothing more than a way to charge $10-$15 more per disc, so for them to make the discs affordable would defeat the purpose in their minds.

Not sure about studios charging more for a movie, but they probably wanted consumers to double/triple dip on their best sellers. This is one of the important reasons for studios to be able to add interactive features like IME and even the internet mediated features to separate itself from the old generation HT experience. I would think the current premium price of HDM is temporary for the early adopters/enthusiasts only. The HDM price should come close to SD-DVD price soon, when it starts being consumed close to mass rate. ( B1G1 deals already bring down the price to SD-DVD level for Blu-Ray.)

There can only be so many versions of cuts one can generate out of a film to make even the enthusiast to multiple dip.
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post #4503 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

This is the bullseye here. I walk into target and I'm seeing Blu-ray and HD DVD movies as high as 34.98. The recent best selling DVDs are 13.78. It's easy to do the math here. Neither format offers such a significant experience over DVD that consumers are willing to spend %60.

WOW! you've changed your tune!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

This whole battle has been a fckn farce. Both sides are crowing about sales and eventually winning (which many in this thread suck the swill happily) but the reality is the players aren't moving unless they're giving away heaps of movies when compared to DVD sales.

earlier in the year you were SO ready for the "battle" whats happened? gone neutral?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

The economy is not good..housing and fuel prices have stifled alot of entertainment expenditures yet the studios blindly trudge forward with outlandish pricing thinking that low cost "razors" will suddenly make the expensive razorblades more palatable to the public. Wake up.

I thought you were of the opinion that the cheap HD-DVD "Razors" trumped all?

AHH!! the pennys just dropped, I shouldn't be surprised, you are just doing another one of your famous 180 U-turns.

I've missed those.
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post #4504 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Sounds about right. I would add though that I'd be very surprised if the successor to the xBox 360's games didn't come on 51GB HD DVD discs; I just can't see Microsoft shipping games on Sony's PS3 format of choice in 3-4 years from now. Even if they don't, it'd be a good idea for the optical drive in the next xBox to be a combo player of all formats; in the event that HD DVD goes the way of the Dodo they wouldn't be leaving their supporters out in the cold.

err.. dude, it's MICROSOFT!


IF things go M$ way and they can get movie downloads off the ground and crush the HDM market, they would have no qualms about supporting whatever format they wanted, in a few years time.
but if they can get their way and take over the movie download market, then it would be simple for them to shift that amount of data out to gamers, so all the game data would be downloaded.. meaning an almost certain SUBSCRIPTION model on a games console and M$ have been pushing for that in all their business' for a few years now, they just hope and wish that xbox live takes off, because its a constant revenue flow and once you are hooked, its really hard to give up.. just like the internet itself.

Nintendo and Sonys solution is to NOT charge, which to my mind speaks volumes.
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post #4505 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

This whole battle has been a fckn farce. Both sides are crowing about sales and eventually winning (which many in this thread suck the swill happily) but the reality is the players aren't moving unless they're giving away heaps of movies when compared to DVD sales.

The economy is not good..housing and fuel prices have stifled alot of entertainment expenditures yet the studios blindly trudge forward with outlandish pricing thinking that low cost "razors" will suddenly make the expensive razorblades more palatable to the public. Wake up.

It sure doesn't help to have this format war raging, confusing consumers and making many stay on the sidelines hoping it will be resolved. But of course you wouldn't see that. Only a few months ago, you were saying you hope this war goes on, as long as HD DVD survives long enough. I'd say somebody is being hoisted by his own petard.

If you want to talk about a fckn farce, this forum is it. Apparently, some imbecile hit the wrong "alert" button in a spam thread where I suggested other users join me in reporting it (since Kasper and his automated slave didn't do squat about the spam thread for two days after I reported it) and I got permanently banned for spamming. Making things worse, the stupid contact email for this website doesn't work so I can't even tell AppleInsider they screwed up. Every email bounces instantly, and there's no other way to contact the anonymous admin and/or mod. See if I'll ever report spam here again. What a joke.
post #4506 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


................................., you are just doing another one of your famous 180 U-turns.

I've missed those.

GIve it a break. Both had a chance. Anyone who early adopted HD-DVD is feeling it right now. At some point you have to look at US sales figures, world sales figures, and realize that it's turned into a Blu-Ray world. HD-DVD may still have a future in cheap recordable media, but neither Sony, studios, or consumers were going to let a superior technology get beat out by an inferior one. It was all about disk size from the get go if you ask me. They will be able to put whole seasons of TV shows on one disk with Blu-Ray. HD-DVD wont ever have that, unless it's in SD maybe.
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post #4507 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNtel iNside View Post

You can bet that both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the HD DVD Promotion Group are salivating at Warner right now. Here's my take:

If Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive, HD DVD is toast. Paramount/Viacom and DreamWorks Animation will want out of their HD DVD exclusive contracts, and NBC Universal will be forced to release Blu-ray Disc titles, too. Since the HD DVD install base in the US is far smaller than Blu-ray's install base (when you count PlayStation 3), any hope for saving the HD DVD format would be dead.

If Warner goes HD DVD exclusive, Blu-ray will survive only as a gaming disc platform. All the studios, even Sony Pictures, will then go on the HD DVD bandwagon for movie releases, leaving Blu-ray as a gaming-only disc for PlayStation 3 games.

My bet is that Warner will go Blu-ray Disc due to the larger install base... and I think that Sony, Panasonic, Philips, and other Blu-ray backers will give them a boatload of cash to drop HD DVD. But don't count out HD DVD entirely... remember, Time Warner owns several HD DVD-related patents (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Blu-ray Disc Association gives them a bunch of money to transfer the HD DVD-related patents to a third party like Samsung).

I look for Warner to stay neutral unless one of the groups throw a huge pile of money their way a la the Paramount situation.

If Warner goes one way or the other I don't see it ending the format war as both sides seem willing to loose big bundles of money in this senseless format war.

If Warner goes blu, though, IMO that may put pressure on Universal to go neutral. Or they may decide that splitting the small HD market with Paramount makes more sense than going neutral and competing with the Blu studios for a slightly larger market.

In the same way, if Warner goes HD I don't see other studios abandoning the Blu platform although some might go neutral.
post #4508 of 4651
I see others are coming around to my pessimistic view of the HDM market based on the economy and format war.

BTW, in today's Seattle Times there was a Magnolia insert that featured the lowest price I've ever seen for a BD player, $300 for the Sony 300 which also has the 5 free mail in BD offer.
post #4509 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

err.. dude, it's MICROSOFT!


IF things go M$ way and they can get movie downloads off the ground and crush the HDM market, they would have no qualms about supporting whatever format they wanted, in a few years time.
but if they can get their way and take over the movie download market, then it would be simple for them to shift that amount of data out to gamers, so all the game data would be downloaded.. meaning an almost certain SUBSCRIPTION model on a games console and M$ have been pushing for that in all their business' for a few years now, they just hope and wish that xbox live takes off, because its a constant revenue flow and once you are hooked, its really hard to give up.. just like the internet itself.

Nintendo and Sonys solution is to NOT charge, which to my mind speaks volumes.

The bandwidth and storage capacity required for High Definition games and movies will not be ready in time for the next-generation of game consoles. If image and sound quality wasn't constantly improving, we'd be there already. But now everyone wants 51GB movies and photo-realistic games. Feature-length movies and games on physical media ain't going away anytime soon. Besides, if Microsoft switched their xBox to a subscription-only product, every gamer would buy PS4's instead.
post #4510 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak1 View Post

It sure doesn't help to have this format war raging, confusing consumers and making many stay on the sidelines hoping it will be resolved. But of course you wouldn't see that. Only a few months ago, you were saying you hope this war goes on, as long as HD DVD survives long enough. I'd say somebody is being hoisted by his own petard.

If you want to talk about a fckn farce, this forum is it. Apparently, some imbecile hit the wrong "alert" button in a spam thread where I suggested other users join me in reporting it (since Kasper and his automated slave didn't do squat about the spam thread for two days after I reported it) and I got permanently banned for spamming. Making things worse, the stupid contact email for this website doesn't work so I can't even tell AppleInsider they screwed up. Every email bounces instantly, and there's no other way to contact the anonymous admin and/or mod. See if I'll ever report spam here again. What a joke.


Fixed that.

You might also note that we have a forum entitled 'Feedback'. You can take your complaints, and their foul language, over there in the future.
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post #4511 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post

Fixed that.

You might also note that we have a forum entitled 'Feedback'. You can take your complaints, and their foul language, over there in the future.

Foul language? I was only quoting and repeating after Murch, who didn't attract any attention for writing that phrase in the first place. Besides, one has to create a new account just to be able to post a complaint in the feedback forum, so either way, a new account is necessary.
post #4512 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak1 View Post

I...and I got permanently banned...

Nice to see you back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

...but neither Sony, studios, or consumers were going to let a superior technology get beat out by an inferior one.

Um, yes they will. There was this former Sony tech called Beta. Have you heard of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

I look for Warner to stay neutral unless one of the groups throw a huge pile of money their way a la the Paramount situation.

If Warner goes one way or the other I don't see it ending the format war as both sides seem willing to loose big bundles of money in this senseless format war.

If Warner goes blu, though, IMO that may put pressure on Universal to go neutral. Or they may decide that splitting the small HD market with Paramount makes more sense than going neutral and competing with the Blu studios for a slightly larger market.

In the same way, if Warner goes HD I don't see other studios abandoning the Blu platform although some might go neutral.

Warner is sitting pretty, and is likely getting all kinds of offers to join one camp or the other.

My initial thoughts on Blu-Ray still stand though. I still don't see why a studio whose corporate parent gets royalties from HD-DVD would go Blu-Ray exclusive, meaning that a competing studio would get increased royalties every time they had a blockkbuster movie.

To me, that is really what got Paramount to move to HD-DVD. I know the BR side keeps talking about the big marketing money, but 150 million is the budget for like, ONE MOVIE.

I think that if Warner moves to HD-DVD it will be for the same core strategic reason, though they will take every incentive offered along the way.
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post #4513 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

.............
Um, yes they will. There was this former Sony tech called Beta. Have you heard of it?
..................

Yes, and it also was inferior. You couldn't fit more than an hour on Beta. WTF are you supposed to do with movies that are an hour long? Not watch feature films. There was Beta2, and Beta3 but the time they came out with 3 formats to complicate matters it was too late anyway. They missed the boat.
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post #4514 of 4651
I still don't understand this.

On the one hand, the reference is Blu-Ray specific (which is odd given that AAC is a part of both platforms.)

And if the protection has already been broken on the PC, why does anyone care that Apple's 5% marketshare needs a hard coded kernel-level protection scheme?

Can anybody else corroborate this Apple-AACS impasse?
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post #4515 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

The bandwidth and storage capacity required for High Definition games and movies will not be ready in time for the next-generation of game consoles.


your proof is where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

If image and sound quality wasn't constantly improving, we'd be there already.

m$ are shipping their games on 8GB discs, you think 8BG is a huge download? even at todays data rates on broadband you could download one level at a time and not miss out much, in fact it would give the game studios the "extra room" for more levels. of course a console like that would rely on HDD and possibly still have a DVD drive so games could be sold with 8BG of games to start you, your sub and the encripted code on the disc allows you access to more levels, that can download while you are playing the few that are on the disc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

But now everyone wants 51GB movies and photo-realistic games.

1 extra GB.. mmm.. you HAD to git the jibe in for your PRO HD-DVD views, you are about as neutral as can be arnt you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Feature-length movies and games on physical media ain't going away anytime soon.

I tend to agree, but I'm not so blinded with the cultish fervor you display that I can't see where the industry is going DOWNLOADS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Besides, if Microsoft switched their xBox to a subscription-only product, every gamer would buy PS4's instead.

so.. LIVE isn't a subscription service? you don't see that as the thin end of a money wedge?
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #4516 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

GIve it a break. Both had a chance. Anyone who early adopted HD-DVD is feeling it right now. At some point you have to look at US sales figures, world sales figures, and realize that it's turned into a Blu-Ray world. HD-DVD may still have a future in cheap recordable media, but neither Sony, studios, or consumers were going to let a superior technology get beat out by an inferior one. It was all about disk size from the get go if you ask me. They will be able to put whole seasons of TV shows on one disk with Blu-Ray. HD-DVD wont ever have that, unless it's in SD maybe.

have you read some of his early posts here?

It's U-Turn all over again. but he won't admit it. Time and time again I have seen the HD-DVD nuts on this thread be proved wrong and they WILL NOT admit it. It grates a little, I'm only pointing it out.
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #4517 of 4651
Isn't Beta alive and well in TV studios?
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #4518 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Isn't Bata alive and well in TV studios?

Betacam and Betamax are two different animals. Betacam is still alive and well in the professional environment, though that's changing.
post #4519 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

Betacam and Betamax are two different animals. Betacam is still alive and well in the professional environment, though that's changing.

yes, its changing after HOW MANY years?

also Betacam is derived from Betamax tech.

from the link you provide it is easy to cull the following :-
Quote:
The original Betacam format records on cassettes loaded with oxide-formulated tape, which are theoretically the same as used by its consumer market-oriented predecessor Betamax, introduced 7 years earlier by Sony in 1975.

Derived from IMO much like CD/RW was derived from CD glass master production tech.

anyway thats tape but it does prove SONYs tech kept going and was useful.

also, the HD-DVDers keep throwing up the supposed SONY "failures" well with the law of averages aren't they about ready for a success?
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #4520 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

have you read some of his early posts here?

It's U-Turn all over again. but he won't admit it. Time and time again I have seen the HD-DVD nuts on this thread be proved wrong and they WILL NOT admit it. It grates a little, I'm only pointing it out.

They are like the 29% that still support Bush. We treat everything (politics, video formats, etc) like they are sports teams we are supporting, which is kind of messed up.
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