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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007) - Page 114

post #4521 of 4651
Cripes Walter, who crapped in your corn flakes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

your proof is where?

If we reach broadband speeds in 4 years that make a 50GB download take a matter of minutes instead of days, it certainly won't be widespread enough for it to be the ONLY means provided of getting movies and games for the next-generation xBox.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

m$ are shipping their games on 8GB discs, you think 8BG is a huge download? even at todays data rates on broadband you could download one level at a time and not miss out much, in fact it would give the game studios the "extra room" for more levels. of course a console like that would rely on HDD and possibly still have a DVD drive so games could be sold with 8BG of games to start you, your sub and the encripted code on the disc allows you access to more levels, that can download while you are playing the few that are on the disc.

Um, and you don't think they might want to up the ante for their next-generation console, considering Sony's current generation is already using 50GB discs? Or do you think Microsoft's going to stick to 8GB games while Sony moves to 100GB games? And even if the next-generation consoles came with a Terabyte of storage, that's only 10-20 games and movies available at one's immediate disposal. No one's going to go for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

1 extra GB.. mmm.. you HAD to git the jibe in for your PRO HD-DVD views, you are about as neutral as can be arnt you

Relax Walter, I thought Blu-Ray was 51GB. I didn't have my Sony-endorsed propaganda & sales materials in front of me at the time


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

I tend to agree, but I'm not so blinded with the cultish fervor you display that I can't see where the industry is going DOWNLOADS.

The industry is very much moving toward downloads, but I just don't believe the bandwidth will be fast enough, and more importantly widespread enough, for the next-generation consoles to abandon physical media entirely already.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

so.. LIVE isn't a subscription service? you don't see that as the thin end of a money wedge?

There's more xBox owners who don't use xBox live than there are those who do; if Microsoft were to force a subscription service by making it the only means of playing games and movies in their next-generation console, everyone's next-generation console would be a PS4.
post #4522 of 4651
This is how you get next-generation players into the hands of consumers who don't care enough about picture and sound quality to pony up for a special player and discs. Smart move, so long as the consumer can't opt out of the Blu-Ray player for a cheaper price on the television (because they will).
post #4523 of 4651
Wow, that a pretty sweet deal being offered by a Tier 1 brand name. If I didn't get a Hitachi, I was going to get a Panasonic Vierra. If more companies follow suit, a lot of people will have Blu-Ray without spending any extra money. Not too shabby.
post #4524 of 4651
Samsung's BD-P1400 Blu-ray player drops below $300

http://www.techspot.com/news/28174-s...below-300.html

Quote:
Since the beginning of the so-called format war HD DVD has had a price advantage over Blu-ray as far as disc players are concerned. While the former maintains its reputation for being the more affordable technology, Blu-ray leads the way in movie title sales and their players are getting cheaper by the day.

Today, Samsung is setting a new low price record for Blu-ray. Retailers such as Amazon, Circuit City and Best Buy are all listing one of Samsungs flagship players, the BD-P1400, at prices below $300 down $200 from the list price of $499 in late August.

The BD-P1400 features Blu-ray playback at native HD resolutions of 1080p, 1080i, and 720p plus 1080p DVD upconversion. It also packs in Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD support along with the most current HDMI 1.3 spec. In case you need an extra incentive, they are throwing in five free HD movies to the package.
post #4525 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Samsung's BD-P1400 Blu-ray player drops below $300

http://www.techspot.com/news/28174-s...below-300.html


Nice deal. Even, I am almost tempted. Looks like Sumsung is trying to get rid of this model to make room for the combo player or the BD profile 1.1 compliant player soon to be released.

This is by far, the best Blu-Ray hardware deal!....
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post #4526 of 4651
Another BOGO...the deals keep coming Blu...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.htm...=bluraynews-20
post #4527 of 4651
Pali: Sony Blu-Ray Wins DVD War

Quote:
Pali Research's Rich Greenfield has good news for beleaguered Sony (SNE) boss Howard Stringer: His company's Blu-Ray format will win the next-gen DVD format war. The bad news for Hollywood: The existing DVD business is in permanent decline, and the next-gen format won't help anytime soon -- if ever.

Rich predicts (reg. required) that the costly format war between Sony and Toshiba/Microsoft (MSFT) will end in 2008, when Time Warner's (TWX) movie studios stop supporting the HD-DVD format, forcing NBC 's (GE) and Viacom's (VIAB) studios to fall in line. But Hollywood was counting on this format war getting resolved years ago so it could replace slowing conventional DVD sales.

Now, Rich says:

Even with a single next-gen format by mid-2008, we still believe consumer spending on DVD sales will be down about 3% in 2008 compared to 1% in 2007...With the DVD halo gone and digital distribution still in its infancy, studios need to make profitable movies; catalog will no longer save them (particularly, as we suspect most consumers will not be re-buying their existing catalog in next-gen DVD, soon-to-be-known, simply as Blu-ray.

Is it only a matter of when now for Warner going Blu?
post #4528 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

yes, its changing after HOW MANY years?

also Betacam is derived from Betamax tech.

from the link you provide it is easy to cull the following :-

Derived from IMO much like CD/RW was derived from CD glass master production tech.

anyway thats tape but it does prove SONYs tech kept going and was useful.

also, the HD-DVDers keep throwing up the supposed SONY "failures" well with the law of averages aren't they about ready for a success?

I would judge Betacam a relative success and Betamax a failure.

I would have nothing against a Blu-Ray success if they hadn't loaded the format with restrictive DRM and proved they learned nothing from their past failures (Minidisc et al.)

Let me be clear, If Blu-Ray's DRM was broken tomorrow, and I was reasonably certain that I wouldn't be forced to repurchase my movies again when the Home Server era hits, I would consider switching. Until then, it's DVD for me, and HD-DVD if I have to choose a HD format.
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post #4529 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Pali: Sony Blu-Ray Wins DVD War



Is it only a matter of when now for Warner going Blu?

Because rumors are more true when they're repeated by analysts?

Somehow, I think Stringer might know more about how things are going for Blu than Rich Greenfield, and since Stringer said the "war" is a stalemate just a few weeks ago, Rich probably shouldn't put a whole lot of faith in to the bi-monthly "Warner's ditching HD DVD" rumor. Not saying it ain't gonna happen, but after supposedly going to happen any day now for a year, people should probably take a "believe it when they see it" stance.
post #4530 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Pali: Sony Blu-Ray Wins DVD War



Is it only a matter of when now for Warner going Blu?

As with everything in this format mess, I'll only believe it when I see it. It'd be nice though.
post #4531 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I would judge Betacam a relative success and Betamax a failure.

I would have nothing against a Blu-Ray success if they hadn't loaded the format with restrictive DRM and proved they learned nothing from their past failures (Minidisc et al.)

Let me be clear, If Blu-Ray's DRM was broken tomorrow, and I was reasonably certain that I wouldn't be forced to repurchase my movies again when the Home Server era hits, I would consider switching. Until then, it's DVD for me, and HD-DVD if I have to choose a HD format.

You must think the Mac a failure too?
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post #4532 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

You must think the Mac a failure too?

eh? I don't follow the logic.
post #4533 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Because rumors are more true when they're repeated by analysts?

Somehow, I think Stringer might know more about how things are going for Blu than Rich Greenfield, and since Stringer said the "war" is a stalemate just a few weeks ago, Rich probably shouldn't put a whole lot of faith in to the bi-monthly "Warner's ditching HD DVD" rumor. Not saying it ain't gonna happen, but after supposedly going to happen any day now for a year, people should probably take a "believe it when they see it" stance.

And spewing the same FUD in regards to Stringer's out of context "stalemate" statement makes it more true because you keep repeating it? ...especially when Stringer the next week stated he firmly believed Blu-ray has the momentum to win this format war?

Somehow, I think you need to let go of the Stringer comment and not let it blind you to the reality of the situation. Blu-ray is winning and is about two weeks away from a whole year of sales domination.

I fully realize this is a rumor about WB, however, you have Business Week talking about a WB defection to Blu-ray and now you have Pali. You also have insiders over at Blu-ray.com not denying that this is to take place...all I'm saying is that where there's smoke, there's fire.
post #4534 of 4651
The problem is, you've yelled 'Fire' about Warner so many, many times before.

And Stringer did absolutely say the war was at a stalemate. That the Blu-Ray hype machine made him backtrack and spin it the "out of context" line does not change the fact that he said it.
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post #4535 of 4651
I think it was probably stock holders that made him backtrack. I think the truth is probably closer to stalemate, but a single victor is certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

But, last month the format war was as good as over in favor of Blu-ray. That's when I bought my HD-DVD player. [/pessimistic consumer]
post #4536 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The problem is, you've yelled 'Fire' about Warner so many, many times before.

And Stringer did absolutely say the war was at a stalemate. That the Blu-Ray hype machine made him backtrack and spin it the "out of context" line does not change the fact that he said it.

Many, many times before? I'd like proof. As the only other time I've yelled 'Fire' about Warner before was when an HD DVD supporter purported false claims under the guise of an insider on Blu-ray.com (SA01CD). And even then, I was very cautious in stating that that was a very, very loose rumor, and lacked credibility (and the Insiders at Blu-ray.com stated they had no knowledge of such information).

This is Business Week we are talking about now...analysts like Pali, and the Insider's, sufficeth to say are dropping hints that indeed this will happen.

So, yeah, I'd say you're dead wrong again with your accusation of "'Fire' about Warner so many, many times before." The other times Warner was brought up was when we were discussing whether Warner was going to be looking at the sales of the 4th quarter in regards to their strategy for 2008, and that wasn't me yelling 'Fire' that was HighDefDigest and other online publications quoting Silverberg and others.

In regards to Stringer's comment, I think it is safe to say we can agree to disagree, as we've been over this a couple of times, and after showing the full context of his statement, it is clear that HD DVD proponents such as yourself are interpreting his statement as you see fit...as obviously warped that might be.
post #4537 of 4651
It appears that other Blu-Ray backers are already giving players with their HD tvs:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/dep...id=EN&catid=11

That is for the Canadians on the board, too bad I bought in Feb., prices and offers are much better in less than a years time! Anyone remember when 32" CRTs were a grand, now look what you get.
post #4538 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam'ron View Post

It appears that other Blu-Ray backers are already giving players with their HD tvs:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/dep...id=EN&catid=11

It's a very smart move. Toshiba's really missing the boat on this one. Giving the players away for free as an accompaniment to an HDTV might be the only way HDM stands a chance at gaining ground against standard-definition DVD.
post #4539 of 4651
True, but it's also a tacit admission that the only way to move Blu-Ray players against the cheaper HD-DVD is to hide the higher sticker price within a larger purchase.
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post #4540 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

They are like the 29% that still support Bush. We treat everything (politics, video formats, etc) like they are sports teams we are supporting, which is kind of messed up.

I support Bush. He did the right thing. It's Americans that are spineless, and easily brain-washable.

And do not reply to that totally off topic post.
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post #4541 of 4651
Now, even NYT are picking up on Warner possibly going Blu...

http://www.nytimes.com/paidcontent/P...ref=technology

...hey, let's give credit to HD DVD, they had a good run...



Honestly, relax, i kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid. Nothing is over quite yet, but rest assured, if Warner does indeed announce Blu-ray exclusivity at CES 2008, this format war is most definitely over for HD DVD. Do you HD DVD proponents agree or disagree?
post #4542 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

True, but it's also a tacit admission that the only way to move Blu-Ray players against the cheaper HD-DVD is to hide the higher sticker price within a larger purchase.

Perhaps. But it can also be argued that the only way to move HD DVD players is to have its creator subsidize their retail price (plus rebates and lots of free discs) to hide the true cost, making the market so unprofitable that no other reputable, first-tier CE companies would even try to compete.
post #4543 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Nothing is over quite yet, but rest assured, if Warner does indeed announce Blu-ray exclusivity at CES 2008, this format war is most definitely over for HD DVD. Do you HD DVD proponents agree or disagree?

Blu-Ray would still be short two entire studios, and I can't imagine Microsoft throwing a Blu-Ray-only player in the next-generation xBox, can you? As a consumer, even if Warner went Blu-Ray exclusive I would still want to own a combo-player so I can play films from all studios.
post #4544 of 4651
did someone cry wolf?

Here we go again!... PS3 is killing Wii in sales! Blu-Ray HDM out sold SD-DVD!
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post #4545 of 4651
i've been holding out as long as possible, but i'm gonna break tomorrow.
i'm buying a PS3 and lost season 3! i already have wii and don't want to give microsoft a dime either way... go blu-ray!
post #4546 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Blu-Ray would still be short two entire studios, and I can't imagine Microsoft throwing a Blu-Ray-only player in the next-generation xBox, can you? As a consumer, even if Warner went Blu-Ray exclusive I would still want to own a combo-player so I can play films from all studios.

Well.. they don't even throw a HD-DVD player in the 360.. what does that tell you?!
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post #4547 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoami View Post

i've been holding out as long as possible, but i'm gonna break tomorrow.
i'm buying a PS3 and lost season 3! i already have wii and don't want to give microsoft a dime either way... go blu-ray!

Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to the Hi-def world
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post #4548 of 4651
Finally, and honest-to-goodness BOGO for HD DVD. About damn time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Well.. they don't even throw a HD-DVD player in the 360.. what does that tell you?!

Um...that HD DVD wasn't ready at the time that the xBox 360 (and it's launch titles) had to begin production?
post #4549 of 4651
post #4550 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Finally, and honest-to-goodness BOGO for HD DVD. About damn time!

Too bad I only wanted one of those movies. Thanks for pointing it out though.

Quote:
Um...that HD DVD wasn't ready at the time that the xBox 360 (and it's launch titles) had to begin production?

Or that they wanted to keep the expenses down on an already loss-leading device. Or that they didn't want to gouge their customer base in order to include an unwanted feature.
post #4551 of 4651
post #4552 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Finally, and honest-to-goodness BOGO for HD DVD. About damn time!

nice!... Is it just amazon or retails are also doing the promo?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post


Or that they wanted to keep the expenses down on an already loss-leading device. Or that they didn't want to gouge their customer base in order to include an unwanted feature.

Yup, that was basically what the M$ spokes person had said while back, for not offering built-in HD-DVD drives. Perhaps, the price on the HD-DVD drives will be low enough now and be part of the built-in xbox360 on the next upgrade cycle at no added cost.

Is 8.5GB not enough for the newer games?
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post #4553 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Blu-Ray would still be short two entire studios, and I can't imagine Microsoft throwing a Blu-Ray-only player in the next-generation xBox, can you? As a consumer, even if Warner went Blu-Ray exclusive I would still want to own a combo-player so I can play films from all studios.

Ahh, so you are an HD DVD proponent, hmm? And all this time I thought we were to label you as "neutral."

Anyhow, what I'm about to say is pure speculation, but if I were Paramount, and Warner did indeed go Blu-ray exclusive, you know any lawyer from Paramount worth his/her weight would most defintely have some CYA clauses in the contractual bribe agreement they accepted from the HD DVD group earlier in the year to have them opt out of the agreement if certain objectives were not met or if the landscape of studio support changed drastically. All I'm saying is is that I wouldn't be suprised that if Warner went Blu-ray exclusive, Paramount wouldn't be far behind exercising their out clauses of their earlier agreement and crawling back to Blu-ray.

I'm just of the opinion that with a 6 to 2 studio advantage, HD DVD would be done, no questions asked, and the other two studios would be forced to fall in line.
post #4554 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

Too bad I only wanted one of those movies. Thanks for pointing it out though.



Or that they wanted to keep the expenses down on an already loss-leading device. Or that they didn't want to gouge their customer base in order to include an unwanted feature.

Or that they wanted to not fully commit to the HD DVD format, but simply back it enough so as to try and stifle the high-def optical market so that their downloadable movie strategy would make them billions.
post #4555 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/11/s...r-dips-to-270/

Samsung BD-P1400- $270

What's interesting is that even at $270 Blu-Ray Player can't beat any of the third gen HD-DVD player in amazon ranking...

BTW, Toshiba HD-A30 is being offered at $240 shipped with 10 free movies at amazon.
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post #4556 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Is 8.5GB not enough for the newer games?

Apparently. Rock Star, the creators of GTA, are making a new game called La Noire that will be out early next year I think. They said that it was simply impossible to be done on the 360 due to the sheer size of the game.
post #4557 of 4651
US HD Hardware Sales 3:1 in Blu-ray's Favour by Year End

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/12...re_sales_2007/

Quote:
US households will together own 948,000 HD DVD playback devices and almost 3m Blu-ray Disc-capable machines come the end of 2007, market watcher DisplaySearch has estimated.

Breaking those numbers down, we get 2.5m PlayStation 3s, 678,000 HD DVD players, 461,000 Blu-ray Disc players and 270,000 Xbox 360 add-on drives, DisplaySearch said via Home Media Magazine.

Add those numbers up and for every living room-oriented HD DVD device out there, there are three Blu-ray machines.

That statistic may well give Warner's home entertainment division pause for thought if it is indeed waiting to see each format's end-of-year hardware sales before deciding whether to back a single format as some industry insiders have alleged it's considering.

For its part, Warner's only comment on the matter has been to state it has "made no decision to change our present policy which is to produce in both HD DVD and Blu-ray".

Newspaper columnist Bob Lindich maintains this statement's lack of a denial or ambiguous language, not to mention the fact the Warner issued it quickly, is a sign that no move's on the cards.

However, Warner's statement doesn't contradict the aforementioned claims, which suggest it's waiting to see the numbers before casting its lot one way or another. Until then, of course Warner is going to maintain its support-both-formats policy.

Yeah, I think Warner has already made a decision, they're just waiting for the proper venue after Christmas.
post #4558 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Now, even NYT are picking up on Warner possibly going Blu...

http://www.nytimes.com/paidcontent/P...ref=technology

...hey, let's give credit to HD DVD, they had a good run...



Honestly, relax, i kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid. Nothing is over quite yet, but rest assured, if Warner does indeed announce Blu-ray exclusivity at CES 2008, this format war is most definitely over for HD DVD. Do you HD DVD proponents agree or disagree?

Hey Marz, I'm a BD supporter and don't agree with your contention about it being all over if Warner goes Blu exclusive. Universal and Paramount may decide that it makes sense financially to split HD's 25 - 35% share of the HDM market between themselves rather than have to compete against the rest of the studios in BD.

Warner is in an enviable position right now probably entertaining some very lucrative bids to go one way or the other or even to stay neutral. If Paramount's decision was worth $150M, how much do you think Warner will be able to squeeze out of this from someone?
post #4559 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Or that they wanted to not fully commit to the HD DVD format, but simply back it enough so as to try and stifle the high-def optical market so that their downloadable movie strategy would make them billions.

Why do you keep repeating this retarded Microsoft FUD?

Microsoft isn't the company that is betting the farm on next-gen movie downloads. That company is Apple.

Microsoft is simply interested in using downloads to help sales of its Xbox, while Apple needs that market more to sustain its iPod domination, along with their revised AppleTV strategy.

You simply do not know what you are talking about.
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post #4560 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

You simply do not know what you are talking about.

It must be true, it's written in his Sony-endorsed marketing guide
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