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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007) - Page 116

post #4601 of 4651




8 of the top 10 top selling high-def titles are Blu-ray. Now, can you guys imagine the slaughter that would have taken place if Paramount had remained neutral and not sold out to the Microsoft/Toshiba bribe? We'd be seeing easily 85+:15- during the holidays. And even when Blu-ray loses a studio, HD DVD gets trounced weekly just like it has been all year long.
post #4602 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending December 9th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...1607/index.php

WE: BD-76% HDD-24% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%

HD DVD just can't catch a break I tell ya. But that's good from a wanting to end the format war as quickly as possible perspective.

Once again, here is the missing release list:

HD DVD
* Arctic Tale (Paramount)
* Battlestar Galactica: Season One (Universal)
* Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid (Eagle Rock)

BD
* 20 Million Miles to Earth (Sony)
* Cast Away (Fox)
* Elton 60 - Live at Madison Square Garden (Universal Music)
* Masters of Horror: Season One - Vol. Four (Starz)
* Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
* Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (Buena Vista)
* Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid (Eagle Rock)
* Superbad (Sony)
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post #4603 of 4651
Ohhhhh, I hope it is just a matter of time before we see these types of Blu-ray drives in our Macs...[drool]

FastMac Announces 4x Blu-ray Burner for Pro Macs

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/14.13.shtml

Quote:
FastMac announced the immediate availability of its 4x dual layer Blu-ray drive burner for Apple Mac Pro and PowerMac G5. The drive can write 50 GB of data to a disc at speeds of more than 1 GB/minute.

The new 5.25-inch, tray loading drive uses one of the fastest Mac-compatible Blu-ray mechanisms to provide up to 50 GB of storage on a dual or double layer disc, without sacrificing compatibility with standard DVD and CD recordable media. Using a SATA connection, the drives 4x BD-R DL mechanism allows professional Mac users to burn up to 50GB of data on 1 disc in less than 50 minutes.



The drive is also compatible with standard DVD and CD media and can write to DVD-R and DVD+R media at 12x speed in single layer and 8x speed in dual/double layer mode. It can rewrite to DVD+RW media at 8x speeds and DVD-RW media at 6x speeds. The drive also supports CD-R reading and writing at up to 40x speeds and CD-RW burning at up to 24x speeds.

The 4x Blu-ray optical drive upgrade requires Mac OS X 10.4.8. It is compatible with the Mac Pro and PowerMac G5. The PMG5 will require SATA to IDE/ATAPI converter cable. Native support for Finder burning is not yet available and requires third party software such as Adobe Premiere CS3 or Roxios Toast 8 Titanium.

The tray loading 4x Blu-ray drive is priced at a special introductory US$579.95. Each drive carries a 1-year warranty and a 30-day money back guarantee.
post #4604 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Once again, here is the missing release list:

HD DVD
* Arctic Tale (Paramount)
* Battlestar Galactica: Season One (Universal)
* Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid (Eagle Rock)

BD
* 20 Million Miles to Earth (Sony)
* Cast Away (Fox)
* Elton 60 - Live at Madison Square Garden (Universal Music)
* Masters of Horror: Season One - Vol. Four (Starz)
* Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
* Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (Buena Vista)
* Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid (Eagle Rock)
* Superbad (Sony)

Uh, so? What's your point? Of those eight Blu-ray releases, only two made the top 10. Considering the rate at which the index dwindles, the other six movies had a negligable effect on the market share if they didn't even make the top 10. Do you think Elton or Queen sold even a fraction of what Ratatouille sold at an index of only 6.69? Face it, PotC: At World's End just demolished everything else, and Superbad helped. And it's not Blu-ray's fault that HD DVD can't manage decent releases. Is that going to be your excuse every week? "There weren't any good releases for HD DVD this week. There weren't any good releases for HD DVD this week. There weren't..."
post #4605 of 4651
Wow! Great for Blu-ray. This lead was quite a bit bigger than I expected to see. Come over any time Warner. Lets put this lame game to a rest, its obvious HD-DVD doesn't have what it takes to cut it.
post #4606 of 4651
Great numbers!

I'm gonna take a peek at Blade Runner tomorrow on BD.
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post #4607 of 4651
I bought Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox) and Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (Buena Vista) on the first week. Good stuff.
post #4608 of 4651
Thread Starter 
I just saw a Wal-Mart commercial on cable. It was all about the hints a kid was dropping that he wanted a Blu-ray player for Christmas. Every few seconds, a Blu-ray card was on camera. Tell me again how Wal-Mart is carrying the Venturer unit and pushing HD DVD as their preferred HD format.
post #4609 of 4651
HD-DVD has some titles I would like to own, but it's not going to get me to buy one. Battlestar Galactica season one I would love to have, but I'm just not satisfied with owning a dead player.

I bought POTC At Worlds End, Dead Mans Chest, and The Fifth Element Remastered in that week. I think I'm going to buy the Harry Potter series this week. It's a lot of disks, but it's a good series. 300, and Troy are also on my list of movies soon to be mine. Still waiting for V for Vendetta, and Sin City damn it. I would buy those first.
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post #4610 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

HD-DVD has some titles I would like to own, but it's not going to get me to buy one. Battlestar Galactica season one I would love to have, but I'm just not satisfied with owning a dead player.

I bought POTC At Worlds End, Dead Mans Chest, and The Fifth Element Remastered in that week. I think I'm going to buy the Harry Potter series this week. It's a lot of disks, but it's a good series. 300, and Troy are also on my list of movies soon to be mine. Still waiting for V for Vendetta, and Sin City damn it. I would buy those first.

300 is STUNNING! the difference between it and SD-DVD is/was quite a shock for me, its the only direct comparison between the two formats I have managed so far, but for a new film the amount of compression visible on the SD-dvd was shocking after watching the BD!

There really IS a big difference even AT 10 feet! and there are SO MANY extras on that one disc as well including some in HD and that was like looking through a window!

I'm currently waiting on one of the HPs to arrive.
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post #4611 of 4651
Buy more copies of Ratatouille. I demand it.
post #4612 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloss View Post

Buy more copies of Ratatouille. I demand it.

Didn't like it as much as Cars, or the Incredibles.
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post #4613 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Didn't like it as much as Cars, or the Incredibles.

I've personally found that I take to Brad Bird's movies more on subsequent viewings, but that aside, it's the single best-looking HD disc on the market right now. Absolutely perfect transfer + Pixar's top-of-the-food-chain animation = prime demo material.



post #4614 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloss View Post

I've personally found that I take to Brad Bird's movies more on subsequent viewings, but that aside, it's the single best-looking HD disc on the market right now. Absolutely perfect transfer + Pixar's top-of-the-food-chain animation = prime demo material.





When I go neutral, the main driving reason for that would be because of the pixar/disney releases. Mostly for the reason to collect. however, most pixar movies also got great transfers on most SD-DVD releases. Tt looks merely like Hidef when scaled to 1080p using a decent video processor like reon vx, especially for most animation movies, even when using an entry level HD-DVD player.

My SD-DVD copy of Ratatouille looks just awesome along with all other Pixar Amimation releases.

Anyway, I do own several animation HDM's, but HiDef is more rewarding on greatly transfered non-animated films for me. Especially, when they're older releases. Don't get me wrong, I would love to double dip on all my pixar collections, but the great remaster/transfer on films/and classic films is where Hidef really makes me double dip.

BTW, what other animated films do you own on Blu-Ray?
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post #4615 of 4651
Ratatouille is the only CG animated film I own thus far, but I also have 300, Casino Royale, Planet Earth, The Fountain, Paprika, and The Prestige.

I mean, the detail evident may vary depending on the TV you're viewing on, but I've got a 60" 1080p SXRD and as excellent as the Pixar DVD releases look (I own all of them, and the transfers on Cars and The Incredibles made me go 'How much better can HD be?'), Ratatouille is on another level entirely. There are moments where it feels like you could reach through the screen and touch the characters. Never any compression artifacting or unintended blurring resulting from an upsampled DVD image.

I've been trying to find comparable screencaps from DVD, but even with upsampling taken into account there's no comparison between 720x480 SD video and 1920x1080 HD video, especially when both transfers are taken directly from the digital source.

edit: Here we go. Close enough.



(as a comparison, here's a pretty-close-to-the-same image ripped from the DVD transfer)

post #4616 of 4651
time to open 2008 thread no?

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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post #4617 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

I just saw a Wal-Mart commercial on cable. It was all about the hints a kid was dropping that he wanted a Blu-ray player for Christmas. Every few seconds, a Blu-ray card was on camera. Tell me again how Wal-Mart is carrying the Venturer unit and pushing HD DVD as their preferred HD format.

Over Thanksgiving I saw another ad in the same campaign, only instead of a Blu-Ray player every few seconds, it was Transformers on HD DVD.
post #4618 of 4651
DAMN!


I'm gonna HAVE to buy Rat now!
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post #4619 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam View Post

time to open 2008 thread no?

Not until we hit 200 pages in this thread! Seriously, Marz already started it over a month ago, and it's since become buried. You can unearth it if you're itching to get a two-week jump on the new year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Over Thanksgiving I saw another ad in the same campaign, only instead of a Blu-Ray player every few seconds, it was Transformers on HD DVD.

Are you sure that was for the movie on HD DVD and not just for the movie in general? Wal-Mart was pushing it in October with their own special edition DVD. Besides, the point isn't that Wal-Mart loves Blu-ray. There were a few people here who were laughing that Wal-Mart will make all the difference because they're so into HD DVD, which their Blu-ray ad clearly disproves.
post #4620 of 4651
Article in my local paper today:

HD-DVDs and Blu-rays fail to dominate market


Excerpt: (most pertinent one I think unless you are a fanboy with a side picked)


PRICE IS KEY

But although Blu-ray discs are selling roughly twice as many copies as HD DVDs, they may not win in the end. The cheapest PS3 costs $399, giving HD DVD the definite edge on price -- which may be critical in achieving a long-term foothold in the market.

According to a recent study by the Dallas-based The Diffusion Group, close to one-third of non-HDTV households are interested in purchasing a new HDTV in the next six months. Out of those respondents, 43 percent of those who were likely to purchase an HD disc player preferred HD DVD, citing price as their main criteria, while 27 percent preferred Blu-ray (30 percent were undecided).

The fact that potential HD consumers are basing their decision primarily on price is a testament to the prevailing confusion about HD DVD and Blu-ray -- a confusion that, at least for the short term, seems destined to relegate both formats to niche status, a la laserdiscs in the 1990s.

''Many of the energies that would have gone into promoting the high-def format in general are instead being used to promote each side of the war,'' said Stephanie Prange, editor-in-chief of Home Media Magazine.

``A lot of the studies we're seeing show consumers are confused by HD and don't know why they need it. It would have been nice to see a concerted effort from the industry. But there are giant companies and money invested in these formats. I've never seen anything like it. If everything stays the same as it is right now, we're in for a long haul in this format war.''



I don't see this war ending soon. What a drag. For the record I'm still a holdout.
post #4621 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Plenty of blame to go around, including people like HMurchison. Go 50 or 60 pages back in this thread and you'll find him gleefully hoping the format war goes on and on and on. He knew even then HD DVD had very little chance of winning, but he outright wrote that he wanted enough of a stalemate that it could hold on until it was too entrenched to be abandoned like DIVX or CED were.
post #4622 of 4651
Quote:
The cheapest PS3 costs $399, giving HD DVD the definite edge on price -- which may be critical in achieving a long-term foothold in the market.

there are several BD and HD players that are below 399 and one HD that is below 299
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post #4623 of 4651
Here in Canada there is a Sony rebate of $500 if you buy a Blu-ray payer with an HD TV.
So if you buy an applicable TV (there are lots that comply) you effectively get a BDPS300 for free or a BDPS500 for $200. Plus 5 free Disks. I got the BDPS500 for an additional $199, after the already $300 discounted 42" Bravia TV. Not a bad deal.
post #4624 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Article in my local paper today:


I don't see this war ending soon. What a drag. For the record I'm still a holdout.

I think the question that must be answered here is: WHY are you a hold out?
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post #4625 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Plenty of blame to go around, including people like HMurchison. Go 50 or 60 pages back in this thread and you'll find him gleefully hoping the format war goes on and on and on. He knew even then HD DVD had very little chance of winning, but he outright wrote that he wanted enough of a stalemate that it could hold on until it was too entrenched to be abandoned like DIVX or CED were.

Which IMO was a reflection of personal hope that he hadn't made a bad choice in supporting a losing format. Which is quite understandable I suppose, but then if you take the risk of being an early adopter you have to roll with it
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post #4626 of 4651
Watched Blade Runner last night O M G !

It's never been a film that has sat all that well with me, my SD-DVD copy isn't that great a cut (an early version rushed out in about 2000/2001)

But the BD copy has SO much more in the actual film, the story still has its slow deliberate pace, but theres more explanation that goes on, its the first version that I've seen that REALLY makes me WANT to watch it again right away. A real classic!

The picture: Well it's a fairly old film, and one review I read of it almost put off my purchase altogether, the reviewer said that it wasn't much of an upgrade from the DVD, it was grainy and soft. All I can think is that they must be losing their eyesight, because its Stunning! Yes in places the CAMERAMAN loses focus, or doesn't quite pull it, but that just means the original film was soft in places, not the transfer. Basically where its sharp its sharp as can be! But in a few close-ups it doesn't quite POP thats a 30 year old film for you, with 30 year old standards.

There seem to be extra little subtle efx dropped in here and there that, for me at least, make it almost like watching a brand new film. The crispness of some scenes and the visual richness of the sets at times are almost overpowering, I say almost because I've seen it before, and it is a film known for its "busyness"

I haven't even looked at the second disc yet, looks good!

If you like this film at all, I'd recommend a double dip
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post #4627 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

I think the question that must be answered here is: WHY are you a hold out?

I'm a holdout for the same reasons most people are holdouts.


First reason: there is no format that is decided upon yet. Refuse to invest money on either one until one is decided upon. UNLESS hybrid players grab hold but then the second reason comes into play...

Second reason: PRICE. Right now if I had to choose I would go HD DVD because of price but while most of my fave movies are available in HD DVD not all of them are so this goes back to the 1st reason.


Fact of the matter is dvd players that upconvert to a good enough job and so do the dish channels that broadcast in hd. Both offer great ways to enjoy my new plasma tv without feeling like I'm missing out. And I'm not even mentioning playing games or renting hd movies on my Xbox360 which is what I use the most on my tv. Everybody has a right to decide how to spend their hard earned cash. I personally don't feel like spending it on either format right now is a wise enough investment.
post #4628 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Are you sure that was for the movie on HD DVD and not just for the movie in general? Wal-Mart was pushing it in October with their own special edition DVD. Besides, the point isn't that Wal-Mart loves Blu-ray. There were a few people here who were laughing that Wal-Mart will make all the difference because they're so into HD DVD, which their Blu-ray ad clearly disproves.

The ad was probably intended just for the movie in general, but they were using the HD DVD copy. Point being, I don't think either that ad or the Blu-Ray player ad says anything about Walmart's allegiance, or lack there-of.
post #4629 of 4651
Walter, which version of Blade Runner did you watch? I've only seen the Criterion LD of the original theatre release with the voice-over narration.
post #4630 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Once again, here is the missing release list:

HD DVD
* Arctic Tale (Paramount)
* Battlestar Galactica: Season One (Universal)
* Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid (Eagle Rock)

BD
* 20 Million Miles to Earth (Sony)
* Cast Away (Fox)
* Elton 60 - Live at Madison Square Garden (Universal Music)
* Masters of Horror: Season One - Vol. Four (Starz)
* Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
* Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (Buena Vista)
* Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid (Eagle Rock)
* Superbad (Sony)

Bite, I'm not quite sure what's the point of your post. Are you saying that BD should have a sales lead because it has more and better releases for that week? IMO, while HD is leading in lower cost 1080i players, they are trailing badly in the release of must-have HDM. For some people player price is more important, for others it's access to more quality titles.

BTW, it looks like the street price of the Sony 300 1080p BD player is settling at $300.
post #4631 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Walter, which version of Blade Runner did you watch? I've only seen the Criterion LD of the original theatre release with the voice-over narration.

Blu-ray Blade Runner The Final Cut.

NO VOICEOVER!

It's the 2007 cut I assume its the same as one of the cuts on the SD-DVD 5 disc set, theres an introduction by Riddly and HE says its HIS favorite cut of all of them.

Been too busy today to manage a look at the SD-DVD* for a quick comparison. and will be stupid busy for the next few days so don't know if or when I will get a chance to compare.

hope that helps.


*can we all please just assume that DVD means SD-DVD? its bad enough having to type H D _ D V D with out having to do it for S D _ D V D as well {rant over}
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post #4632 of 4651
If I end up owning a HD player, I'm going to buy Blade Runner. Guaranteed.
post #4633 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Watched Blade Runner last night O M G !

....................

Walter did you see that 5 disk Blade Runner Ultimate Collector's Edition at amazon? Every cut of the film ever created. Looks cool, but only one of the Disks is actually BR. The rest are DVD.

I think I'm going to get it anyway. It's only like $65.00

http://www.amazon.com/Runner-Five-Di.../dp/B000R6PKP2
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post #4634 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Plenty of blame to go around, including people like HMurchison. Go 50 or 60 pages back in this thread and you'll find him gleefully hoping the format war goes on and on and on. He knew even then HD DVD had very little chance of winning, but he outright wrote that he wanted enough of a stalemate that it could hold on until it was too entrenched to be abandoned like DIVX or CED were.

And that's exactly what I'm getting. I'm relatively happy. In fact as I type this there's a banner stating "The future is Blu" and I just laugh. My HD DVD player is fine thank you. I doubt my future is all that Blu.

It's nice to see that consumers are not sheep. Blu-ray is a money grab. It always has been. BD+ has been broken and now sold to Macrovision which means it's dead. Frankly you can pin this SNAFU on the studios. I've never seen a more greedy group..worse than the common street pimp. As I've said..I'll probably buy a BD player next year some time for $250 or less but HD DVD will always win out on titles that ship on both formats. I don't support draconian DRM and money grabs.
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post #4635 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Blu-ray is a money grab. It always has been.

Uhhh... it's called Capitalism. Our HDDVD players and discs are also money grabs and always have been.
post #4636 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloss View Post

Ratatouille is the only CG animated film I own thus far, but I also have 300, Casino Royale, Planet Earth, The Fountain, Paprika, and The Prestige.

I mean, the detail evident may vary depending on the TV you're viewing on, but I've got a 60" 1080p SXRD and as excellent as the Pixar DVD releases look (I own all of them, and the transfers on Cars and The Incredibles made me go 'How much better can HD be?'), Ratatouille is on another level entirely. There are moments where it feels like you could reach through the screen and touch the characters. Never any compression artifacting or unintended blurring resulting from an upsampled DVD image.

I've been trying to find comparable screencaps from DVD, but even with upsampling taken into account there's no comparison between 720x480 SD video and 1920x1080 HD video, especially when both transfers are taken directly from the digital source.

edit: Here we go. Close enough.



(as a comparison, here's a pretty-close-to-the-same image ripped from the DVD transfer)


There is no doubt about HiDef format being better than SD material even in CG animated film, but it doesn't have to look as washed out like the example you're presenting. I'm sure even the PS3 can upscale far better and the standalone players with dedicated video processors would do even better than that.

Anyway, it's hard to deliver comparative images of what's shown from one display on a photo unless it's done in a controlled settings and environment.

I was at a local BB today and one of the Sammy Blu-Ray player demo setup was playing Ratatouille. Even considering the demo display on a torch mode, it looked good. Actually, Shrek on HD-DVD setup had little more 3D pop, though, but I think 3D glossy look on the Shrek HD-DVD was intended.
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post #4637 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Bite, I'm not quite sure what's the point of your post. Are you saying that BD should have a sales lead because it has more and better releases for that week? IMO, while HD is leading in lower cost 1080i players, they are trailing badly in the release of must-have HDM. For some people player price is more important, for others it's access to more quality titles.

My post was intended to provide objectivity for those who still seek them. Since, those sales numbers are heavily depending on the weekly releasing titles in all (SD & HD) Movie discs market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

BTW, it looks like the street price of the Sony 300 1080p BD player is settling at $300.

It doesn't surprise me. I think at some point I did make a guess that Standalone BD players will drop in price by the year end. And I have also pointed out that the price drop will be mostly to move the inventory and push out all the non-compliant BD-profile 1.1/2.0 hardware. Technically, these standalone BD players are already obsolete since the profile 1.1 should be already be in affect last month?

Isn't profile 1.1 Blu-Ray HDM coming out sometime next year?

BTW, I think Sammy bdp-1400 is $280 shipped from Amazon, another profile 1.0 standalone Blu-Ray player. This is definitely a great deal for BD supporters needing a player at a 2nd location.
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post #4638 of 4651
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

And that's exactly what I'm getting. I'm relatively happy.

It's simply incredible that you can write things like this after writing this just over a week ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

This whole battle has been a fckn farce. Both sides are crowing about sales and eventually winning (which many in this thread suck the swill happily) but the reality is the players aren't moving unless they're giving away heaps of movies when compared to DVD sales.

The economy is not good..housing and fuel prices have stifled alot of entertainment expenditures yet the studios blindly trudge forward with outlandish pricing thinking that low cost "razors" will suddenly make the expensive razorblades more palatable to the public. Wake up.

So you don't think the format war you're so happy continues has anything to do with slowing adoption. 4metta must be talking through his hat for saying he refuses to throw money at either format until there is only one. You are simply unbelievable sometimes.
post #4639 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

It's simply incredible that you can write things like this.....

He just blows hot and cold, pulls 180 degree turns in attitude on this thread... I'm afraid you have to get used to it, despite how unbelievable it is sometimes
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #4640 of 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

If I end up owning a HD player, I'm going to buy Blade Runner. Guaranteed.


Looks like Blade Runner is a must buy for HD-DVD player owners based on this review.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1040/...unner_cce.html


Perhaps, I should cancel my amazon order and just pick it up locally. hmm....
always a newbie
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always a newbie
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