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Apple stuns Macworld crowd with multi-function iPhone device - Page 8

post #281 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

So you think Apple are going to drop the HDD iPod before they can replace it with a flash one of at least equal storage capacity for the same or lower price? .

No. My original post was inaccurate. Should have said iPhone instead of iPod. Sorry for the confusion.
post #282 of 437
Thread Starter 
still no comments on appleworks or text edit? Does no one else want this
post #283 of 437
Essentially, I agree with everyone who wants to see what they're doing with the "pure" iPod. Personally, I'd really love to see a pure iPod with a hdd, no cellular technology (But it can keep bluetooth and wifi, pretty much because that way you could still make skype calls if you got a headset and were within the range of a wireless network, which I usually am). By avoiding a partnership with a crappy cellular provider, a whole bunch of legal stuff probably doesn't have to happen anymore, and the device could concievably be cheaper.

I won't be getting the iPhone, not this time around. I'm afraid I just can't justify a purchase like this at this point. I do think it's a revolutionary product, and I'm excited to use one in the future. But I also think that Jobs has opened up a pandora's box for innovation that really can't be closed anytime soon. Multi touch is going to be incorperated into many more things, the iPhone is going to get better and better, and like Steve said in the keynote, there's going to be a lot of awesome new stuff in 2007. The iPhone isn't Apple's trump card; it's their introduction.
post #284 of 437
Six months away from releasing it's 1st phone and Apple is already changing the way cell carriers do business. This rocks so much!

"Jobs demanded special treatment from his phone service partner, Cingular, and he got it. He even forced Cingular to re-engineer its infrastructure to handle the iPhone's unique voicemail scheme."

Yeah! I finally got a confirmation on the Random Access Voicemail (RAV) feature. You may not have realized this yet, but even if you can use this phone with other carriers, you still won't get the RAV feature unless the carrier creates this feature, which will require assistance by Apple, at least until this becomes an industry standard.

I'm glad Cingular is changing it's service platform for Apple, I just hope they don't charge extra for their data service. To be the ONLY US carrier, they would have had to pay Apple an exceptional fee for the exclusivity. I'm guessing they supplement around $400-$500 per phone for this exclusivity.

Prediction: Cingular currently has 58M customers, I speculate they will have +75M by the end of 2007 (calendar). That is an increase of 17M, though only around 15M will be because of iPhone.
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post #285 of 437
During the keynote when he was describing what OS X had he included Core Animation. Now, isn't that a leopard technology? If so, the iPhone *is* running leopard and will probably be released when leopard is through with testing. He said FCC approval takes 2 months, if that were the only holdup it'd be released in late february or march wouldn't it?
post #286 of 437
Looks like Apple is rustling a few feathers.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS...eut/index.html

The other makers are going to have one heck of a time making up for this leap.

 

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post #287 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon View Post

In the US all new cell phones are required to receive GPS. Currently they send the raw data to the providers servers when they figure out the location.

Oh, really? I'd like to see some evidence to support that.

"GPS" has a very specific meaning. I don't believe ALL cell phones are required to have it. All cell phones may need E911 capability, but that does not have to use GPS, it can use other things to do the location determining.

I didn't see anything in the keynote to make me believe the iPhone is location aware. Steve used Google Maps, but I don't believe he anywhere mentioned GPS specifically or self-location awareness. But it may be there in the form of TDOA.

- Jasen.
post #288 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I think people that want to be able to store ALL of their content on iPods are going to be disappointed. I think the future of these ultra mobile devices is flash storage as it is less power hungry and frankly holds up better to the constant jostling that the devices are going to be subjected to on a daily basis. 250 gb flash storage memory isn't just around the corner so if you want to have your entire music library and video library with you it may be a while. Apple is clearly choosing mobility and form factor over storage and rightly so. Look at the best selling iPods. The 'work around' is the ability to access your library via .Mac (google and Yahoo in the future?) and download your other media when you desire.

I thinl flash memory will improve but I don't think it will catch up to people's demands for storage soon. By the time that that occurs I think users will have adapted to accessing their library with the device.

The cost per magbyte for storage drops year after year, and battery technology improves every year. Enough to keep HDs viable until lower cost flash or high-speed everywhere WANs allow you to access your collection from anyplace.

Being limited by storage at the portable device level does not seem to fit well in Apple's long terms plan as a major supplier of rich media
post #289 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

The cost per magbyte for storage drops year after year, and battery technology improves every year. Enough to keep HDs viable until lower cost flash or high-speed everywhere WANs allow you to access your collection from anyplace.

Being limited by storage at the portable device level does not seem to fit well in Apple's long terms plan as a major supplier of rich media


Battery technology improves every year? That's news to me. It improves a little, but we need some serious revolutions in this field.
post #290 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

The cost per magbyte for storage drops year after year, and battery technology improves every year. Enough to keep HDs viable until lower cost flash or high-speed everywhere WANs allow you to access your collection from anyplace.

Being limited by storage at the portable device level does not seem to fit well in Apple's long terms plan as a major supplier of rich media

Hard Drives are not a viable solution for this device, IMO. If they were they'd probably have one. Again what's to keep you from accessing your library, with.Mac, google yahoo ect, with the device? Isn't that better than having a large brick like device with poor battery life and is unreliable.
post #291 of 437
I've heard of being able to purchase a mobile phone that is supposedly "exclusive" to one carrier... but still capable of running on any network/carrier as long as you can swap out a card or something?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be extremely cool if I could buy this phone from Apple and use it with my current Verizon service plan!?!



Anyone know if its possible? Or will be have to wait and see.\
post #292 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon View Post

In the US all new cell phones are required to receive GPS. Currently they send the raw data to the providers servers when they figure out the location.

There is nothing that would keep Apple from also decoding the raw data within the phone so you would not need the providers server. That way any application could use the GPS data. I'm guessing that what is happening with the maps. Apple is sending real GPS location data and the map data is then returned.

When Apple lets the developers gain access I would assume we'll see navagation applications that will run on the iPhone.

One last note, for me only having EDGE is a show stopper, $500 to $600 for a device that can only do 80 to 110 kbps is just plain nuts. I really hope that Apple will add faster data rates before the release.

Jobs said that 3G would come. He didn't say when. Perhaps the charges for it are too high from his perspective, and he wants Cingular to bring them down.
post #293 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEatMaKeR View Post

I've heard of being able to purchase a mobile phone that is supposedly "exclusive" to one carrier... but still capable of running on any network/carrier as long as you can swap out a card or something?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be extremely cool if I could buy this phone from Apple and use it with my current Verizon service plan!?!



Anyone know if its possible? Or will be have to wait and see.\

No, it's not possible.

Haven't you read that this is GSM?

Don't you know that your current service uses CDMA?
post #294 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

The law is good for 3 years.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2064707,00.asp

If this is true, then the answer is YES!!! You can use your iPhone on any network and you are NOT limited to Cingular.

However, what is not mentioned is the limitations to your service. Steve said in his keynote that certain functionality needs to be supported by the networks infrastructure which is why he said he was happy to partner with Cingular whom I assume is willing and anxious to work with Apple to put those measures in place.

That being said, if you "unlocked" the iPhone... paid the extra $$ to buy the iPhone with no Cingular contract... and somehow got them card in the iPhone programmed to work on your network (I'll use Verizon as my example since I'm with them).... You STILL may notice that certain functions don't work because the network isn't setup for it.

Boo!

And of course no insurance for the phone! So drop it or it stops working = your screwed!

Looks like Cingular may have a grip of new customers coming their way.\ sux. Their plans are hella expansive and not so reliable.
post #295 of 437
I've been with several cell phone carriers, Sprint/Nextel(currrently), cingular, cellular one to name a few. None of them are great. Pick your poison.
post #296 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEatMaKeR View Post

If this is true, then the answer is YES!!! You can use your iPhone on any network and you are NOT limited to Cingular.

However, what is not mentioned is the limitations to your service. Steve said in his keynote that certain functionality needs to be supported by the networks infrastructure which is why he said he was happy to partner with Cingular whom I assume is willing and anxious to work with Apple to put those measures in place.

That being said, if you "unlocked" the iPhone... paid the extra $$ to buy the iPhone with no Cingular contract... and somehow got them card in the iPhone programmed to work on your network (I'll use Verizon as my example since I'm with them).... You STILL may notice that certain functions don't work because the network isn't setup for it.

Boo!

And of course no insurance for the phone! So drop it or it stops working = your screwed!

Looks like Cingular may have a grip of new customers coming their way.\ sux. Their plans are hella expansive and not so reliable.

No, it is NOT yes. In the USA, it will only work on Cingular's and T-Mobile's networks.

Wake up people!
post #297 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEatMaKeR View Post

If this is true, then the answer is YES!!! You can use your iPhone on any network and you are NOT limited to Cingular....

That being said, if you "unlocked" the iPhone... paid the extra $$ to buy the iPhone with no Cingular contract... and somehow got them card in the iPhone programmed to work on your network (I'll use Verizon as my example since I'm with them).... You STILL may notice that certain functions don't work because the network isn't setup for it.

Nop.
Verizon uses CDMA standard. Cingular uses the GSM standard.
The iPhone is a GSM phone
therefore, NO iPhone in Verizon.

An unlocked iPhone would work in any other GSM carrier like Tmobile for example. but not Verizon.. or Sprint.
post #298 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Hard Drives are not a viable solution for this device, IMO. If they were they'd probably have one. Again what's to keep you from accessing your library, with.Mac, google yahoo ect, with the device? Isn't that better than having a large brick like device with poor battery life and is unreliable.

No, I wasn't referring to an HD in the iPhone, but in a "future" true video iPod with the same/similar interface as the iPod portion of the iPhone. That's viable.
post #299 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Yeah I think Apple put them selves in a real tough situation. I want a new iPod that will have much more than just 8 GBs! I think we will see much of the iPhone interface in the new iPod. After all, one is a phone with iPod features and one will just be an iPod. Should be easy enough.

It is not a tough situation. It is the smartphone market. If you want more than 8GB's there are lots of iPods to choose from.

An iPod doesn't have the screen or the processor to do what the iPhone does and I think they will keep each separate, just like on the website. In two years it will be its own division and it will be able to contract to other carriers in 3 years.

The iPod will be around for a long time because it is cheaper and easier and smaller and is worthwhile without the phone.
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post #300 of 437
Two places I think the iPhone falls a bit short.

1. Single carrier. Apple should have gotten Cingular and T-Mobile.

2. 3G support. Jobs did say they would develop 3G phones in the future. It should be much sooner than later. I've been reading some pretty unfavorable reviews of Cingular's Edge.
post #301 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

No, I wasn't referring to an HD in the iPhone, but in a "future" true video iPod with the same/similar interface as the iPod portion of the iPhone. That's viable.

That is all but guaranteed. The question to ask is: Will it come out before, after, or at the same time as the iPhone? From a marketing standpoint, will the release of a full screen, video iPod help convince people to buy an iPhone or hurt it? I really don't know, but I'll be my left gonad that it's available within the next 9 months.


Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Hard Drives are not a viable solution for this device, IMO. If they were they'd probably have one. Again what's to keep you from accessing your library, with.Mac, google yahoo ect, with the device? Isn't that better than having a large brick like device with poor battery life and is unreliable.

I really hope you CAN sync contacts, address book, bookmarks, playlists, and access your library via .Mac. No need for Slingbox or Apple Remote Desktop. I can then do it automatically with Mac => .mac => iPhone in one seamless motion.

I am expecting this to happen because of the new version title that will most likely be given to .mac this year, which, IMO, means a big overhaul. Also, it's a chance for Apple to draw and lock in more subscribers into a user experience that is so far ahead than just using the iPhone by itself.
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post #302 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Does anyone actually look at competitive offerings before making these comments??? The Palm Trea 750 is $499 with contract (before rebate and who knows about those in the future) and it only comes with 60 MB (that megabytes) of user accessible storage.

http://www.cac.washington.edu/comput...honecosts.html
http://www.bizrate.com/cellphones1/index__sort--6.html
http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/


Apple is well within the ballpark from what I can see. If it works like the demo this is the best interface I have seen, hands down...
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post #303 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Two places I think the iPhone falls a bit short.

1. Single carrier. Apple should have gotten Cingular and T-Mobile.

2. 3G support. Jobs did say they would develop 3G phones in the future. It should be much sooner than later. I've been reading some pretty unfavorable reviews of Cingular's Edge.


Maybe they tried. It's possible that T-Mobile--and others--wouldn't agree to alter their systems to accommodate for the new technologies (i.e.: Remote Access Voicemail) and paradigms that Apple is offering. I think that eventually all carriers and phones will have RAV, like we do with SMS and Mail features.

It's amazing this hasn't been done before Apple came along. I wonder if that feature is patented?'

The current (or last month's) Consumer Reports has cell phone and cell phone carrier reviews. Cingular was pretty low for all the customer's surveyed. CR even noted that they had poor customer service, something that I recall as bein g my main reason for leaving them several years ago.

If I can use the iPhone on T-Mobile I may jsut do despite the lack of advanced features like RAV.
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post #304 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Two places I think the iPhone falls a bit short.

1. Single carrier. Apple should have gotten Cingular and T-Mobile.

This was probably the only way they could get Cingular. They have more than twice the customers here in the US, T-Mobile has just a few million more altogether when including Europe.

If Apple insisted, Cingular could have called their bluff.

Quote:
2. 3G support. Jobs did say they would develop 3G phones in the future. It should be much sooner than later. I've been reading some pretty unfavorable reviews of Cingular's Edge.

I already went over this, but I'll do it again.

This phone isn't FCC approved yet. 3G makes the process more difficult. Apple might want to get this out, and then have time for an update, or upgraded phone. Cingular might want to charge more than Apple thinks is good. Maybe they're talking about it now.

The phone isn't finished yet. It could still make it in.
post #305 of 437
Quote:
Maybe they tried. It's possible that T-Mobile--and others--wouldn't agree to alter their systems to accommodate for the new technologies (i.e.: Remote Access Voicemail) and paradigms that Apple is offering.

I just remembered the report of the CEO of T-Mobile being excited about Apple's software.
Since T-Mobile is also in Europe, Apple and T-Mobile may be working on a broader plan and were not ready to announce yet.

I really hope Apple can launch on Cingular and T-Mobile. I cannot imagine too many people not already on Cingular rushing to sign up with only Cingular.

Quote:
This was probably the only way they could get Cingular.

Yes 58 million customers does make Cingular the logical choice if you had to pick between the two.

But at the same time if Edge sucks that doesn't help the iPhone very much.
post #306 of 437
Even if it does become available to other carriers, how many do you think will be clamoring to change their networks to support things like visual voice mail?
post #307 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

Even if it does become available to other carriers, how many do you think will be clamoring to change their networks to support things like visual voice mail?

If they feel that they will pull subscribers from other networks, they will.

If Cingular pulls 1 million subscribers in because of this, and the average subscriber just pays $50 a month, that's $600 million a year. 2 million would be $1.2 billion, etc.

How much would it cost to do the changes in the system? Mostly it would be software.
post #308 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If they feel that they will pull subscribers from other networks, they will.

If Cingular pulls 1 million subscribers in because of this, and the average subscriber just pays $50 a month, that's $600 million a year. 2 million would be $1.2 billion, etc.

How much would it cost to do the changes in the system? Mostly it would be software.

But do you think this is one of Apple's 200 patents? Or would the changes made to support visual voice mail be something Cingular would patent?
post #309 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

Even if it does become available to other carriers, how many do you think will be clamoring to change their networks to support things like visual voice mail?

I think that depends a lot on how well the iPhone does. If companies like Nokia, Motorola, etc start taking advantage of Cingular's RAV with their phones, then it will force other networks to implement this just to keep up with demand. If Cingular can sell this unique innovation to customers, then the rest will follow (if they can -- it might be patented!).

EDIT: everyone thinking the same things: Jupiter and Melgross beat me to both points...
post #310 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

But do you think this is one of Apple's 200 patents? Or would the changes made to support visual voice mail be something Cingular would patent?

That's a very good question!

I don't have an answer.

The patents are online. If we poured through them, we might be able to tell.
post #311 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

No, I wasn't referring to an HD in the iPhone, but in a "future" true video iPod with the same/similar interface as the iPod portion of the iPhone. That's viable.

Yes I would agree with that.
post #312 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaPeaJay View Post

During the keynote when he was describing what OS X had he included Core Animation. Now, isn't that a leopard technology? If so, the iPhone *is* running leopard and will probably be released when leopard is through with testing. He said FCC approval takes 2 months, if that were the only holdup it'd be released in late february or march wouldn't it?



My thoughts, exactly.

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post #313 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I really hope you CAN sync contacts, address book, bookmarks, playlists, and access your library via .Mac.

I'll go back and watch the keynote again but I thought he already said this would happen. I thinking that if you backed up your iTunes content on .Mac you could access it from your iPhone. This wasn't said at the keynote but I'm just connecting the dots.
post #314 of 437
From Penny Arcade:




Despite the savageries I have borne for purchasing a Zune, I did buy it for a reason, and I held this reason tight in my palm like a mystic amulet. The strip focuses on Gabriel's growing zealotry, its dark seeds bursting into clutching vines. The credit card was out, he was ready to buy, and I'll be God damned if I wasn't right there with him.

It's always the wrong time to buy an MP3 player, always, which is what kept me from seriously investing in one until 2006. But I didn't just purchase the wrong one, at the wrong time: I purchased it virtually on the brink of its dissolution. I can hardly look at it now, it's like holding a dead squirrel. On its 4:3 screen - the exact ratio of obsolescence - I can see destroyed futures. I don't have to tell you that the iPhone is the future of that platform, as opposed to an aberration. iPods just have touch interfaces now, multipoint touch interfaces with clever gesture controls that you use to manipulate a rich video environment on a screen that is best in show.

I wonder what the mood is at the Microsoft booth over at CES - I would imagine that it is apocalyptic. I'll be down there soon, so I'll know for myself. I've imagined the following scenario:

Young men and women are seated on low red couches, their eyes glistening, the blood gone from their face. Their badges identify them as Microsoft employees. Many of the kiosks are empty, but there is a devastated young man standing like a statue near an Xbox 360. The monitor connected to it is turned off. From the intensity of his stare, he is either deep in thought or has discerned some secret message woven into the carpet.

I approach him.

"So," I say.

There is no response.

"Hey. is the, um..." I feel like he really needs a friend right now. "Is the Xbox, you know... I mean, is the Xbox cool?"

He doesn't speak so much as the word just falls out of his mouth.

"Yeah," he mumbles. "I guess."

(CW)TB out.

I'll show you my dark secret

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post #315 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Two places I think the iPhone falls a bit short.

1. Single carrier. Apple should have gotten Cingular and T-Mobile.

I came across this interesting read on the developement of the iPhone.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/10/comm...ion=2007011009

Secrecy with this project was paramount and cingular played ball so to speak. Perhaps T Mobile was unwilling to do so. Cingular bought into the iPhone without ever seeing a demo of it till the very end. I think it was a couple of weeks before the keynote.
post #316 of 437
The current 4GB ($199) and 8GB ($249) NAND based, iPod Nanos have only a $50 difference, while the 4GB ($499) and 8GB ($599) iPhone a $100 apart.

- Are there $50 worth of extra features for the 8GB model?
- Is this the result of less subsidization percentage by Cingular?
- Something else?
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post #317 of 437
This guy think that the iPhone wil fail miserably due to it's high cost and contract with Cingular. He does some sense, but I have a feeling that Apple is much smarter than s/he is.

http://eminent-truth.blogspot.com/20...s-by-2009.html
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post #318 of 437
He may be right IF Apple just plan to sell this model. I think they will release another model, perhaps two, at lower price points with scaled down features. This sentiment is echoed by everybodies expert, The Wu. Hopefully Apple will try to gain market share quickly before the competition has a chance to respond.
post #319 of 437
Will the QUERTY-keyboard scale (grow) if the iPhone is flipped into landscape??
It would definitely make it easier to enter text...
post #320 of 437
how much is the price difference (for the handset) on the market and from service providers like Cingular and t-mobile? $50 to $150???

I will get one without contract and used in my t-mobile, 2 contracts are useless and tied with one service provider ...

i think only in US wireless providers are so difficult, in other countries you can get service (phone line) without contract and of course no phone...

i took a one year (minimum) for no reason with t-mobile (i did not wanted the cheapo phone they are giving for 2 year contract) ... and used my previous Moto Slvr GSM phone

cingular "MAY" invested in the project "iPhone" so may be preferred partner

wireless providers they have any connection with senators???

i hope i will get the iPhone from apple store and service from apple store sooner or later

time to give up that CDMA, CDMA is it not old technology?

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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