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Apple stuns Macworld crowd with multi-function iPhone device - Page 10

post #361 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cato988 View Post

first comment...

THIS PHONE IS AMAZING

is it just cingular? im going to be pissed if it is

I have it! i might of possibly cought apple in releasing the iphone to other company's. When steve jobs talked about statistics at macworld San Francisco he stated that 978-mil phones were sold last year. he also said they have a good chances of 1% which would be about 10mil phones but later said they would only be using cingular and said they have 45-mil customers which would be and estimated of no more than 500,000 phones. So they would not be making enough money to continue upgrades/updates etc... Well who knows but thats possibly might be true or it could be a mistake/ making themselves look good type of thing? Tell me what you think... And you have to think that not everyone buys smart phones too, but its to cool so people will look past the price etc.

-Have a good night-
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post #362 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMacosx View Post

I have it! i might of possibly cought apple in realsing the iphone to other company's. When steve jobs talked about statistics at macworld San Francisco he stated that 978-mil phones were sold last year. he also said they have a good chances of 1% which would be about 1mil phones but later said they would only be using cingular and said they have 45-mil customers which would be and estimated of no more than 500,000 phones. So they would not be making enough money to continue upgrades/updates etc... Well who knows but thats possibly might be true or it could be a mistake/ making themselves look good type of thing? Tell me what you think... And you have to think that not everyone buys smart phones too, but its to cool so people will look past the price etc.

-Have a good night-

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. But your math is wrong. 1% of 1 billion is not 1 million. It's 10 million.

Also, during an interview on CNBC Tuesday, he reiterated those numbers.

You're forgetting that the number is through 2008. By then, Europe and Asia will be in the selling field. They all use GSM.
post #363 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

On average, the difference is $60 to $80. But high end phones are given much more.

then as long as there is a option to unlock it, all the GSM network can work, it is better to pay additional $60 to $80 then tied up with 2 years of agony with one company ...

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iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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post #364 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam View Post

then as long as there is a option to unlock it, all the GSM network can work, it is better to pay additional $60 to $80 then tied up with 2 years of agony with one company ...

Not all features will work, though.
post #365 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukasodhner View Post

back when E911 was imposed on the carriers they each had to choose how they would get location data, Verizon went with AGPS (Triangulation) while Nextel & Cingular went with GPS receivers in the phone. I'm not sure about Sprint.
Each method has advantages, I had a nextel phone that took forever to pull in a GPS signal and would not work in a car. VZ Navigator phones can pull in the location data quickly and accurately almost any time there is a cell signal available, inside a car or building, whatever. Cingular went down the GPS route, so for them to upgrade thousands of cell sites for AGPS is impratical. If the iPhone is going to have location data accurate enough for driving directions it will have to have a GPS receiver built into it, that's all there is to it.

One more thing to keep in mind: Obviously the iPhone is not in production and may change, Let's say Steve wanted to use the SiFR Star 3 GPS chipset, (actually does work inside, the best available today, as far as I know) He would have been negotiating the cost for the past few months, The best way for him to get a good price would be to pretend he didn't need it at all. He went through with the introduction pretending like he intended to release the iPhone without GPS, that could scare the guys over at SiRF into giving Apple a better deal on the 15,000,000 units. As far as I know most cell phone GPS units use lower quality GPS receivers to this would be a big sale for them any way you add it up.

And what does Steve loose by holding off that announcement, nothing, it's just another chance to hype the phone and excite the potential buyers.

IMHO the iPhone has about a 50% chance of shipping with a built in GPS receiver.

However if it doesn't what I really hope Apple will do is release a Bluetooth GPS receiver that you can plug into your car (or at least support a 3rd party one) and so you can at least get driving directions when in your car.

Here is a more specific answer.

Go down the article. Fourth paragraph from the bottom.


http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts
post #366 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

You know Mel, saying those two things over and over aren't going to make them true. So far you have provided no evidence that either of these things are true.

For the first point, if Jobs said it, please provide the time stamp for the time at which he said it during the keynote.

For the second, you seem to assume that because of the E-911 regs, all phones have AGPS. But as others have pointed out several times, a mobile can triangulate its position using network basestations to an accuracy that meets the E-911 regs. Triangulation using basestations is not AGPS. If you've got some concrete evidence that all US phones have AGPS, please provide it.

Thus do not rely on this type of GPS if lost in the mountains of Southwest Oregon.
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post #367 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Here is a more specific answer.

Go down the article. Fourth paragraph from the bottom.


http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts



Cool!

PS - I've also done a lot of reading on Indoor GPS (a la AGPS and I would assume regular GPS could use these techniques), mostly PDF files, from vendors, academia, etcetera, pretty neat stuff. Inside buildings, steel car trunks, parking garages, under trees, etcetera. Like I said I was old skool GPS (late 90's), out of the loop for a while, some of the EE stuff they're doing is simply amazing.

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post #368 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I just remembered the report of the CEO of T-Mobile being excited about Apple's software.
Since T-Mobile is also in Europe, Apple and T-Mobile may be working on a broader plan and were not ready to announce yet.

I really hope Apple can launch on Cingular and T-Mobile. I cannot imagine too many people not already on Cingular rushing to sign up with only Cingular.



Yes 58 million customers does make Cingular the logical choice if you had to pick between the two.

But at the same time if Edge sucks that doesn't help the iPhone very much.

You have to wonder how many companies Apple may partner with in all of those regions. And in 2 years when the Cingular contract is up, Apple can have its pick of the bunch.

The Edge haters I guess don't think Cingular can upgrade. They've got some time.
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post #369 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post

Thus do not rely on this type of GPS if lost in the mountains of Southwest Oregon.



Yes, that's been mentioned, if the GPS solution needs outside assistance (i. e. AGPS or transmission of GPS data to/from your cell phone) then you're skrewed if you're in the boonies.

I guess it's TBD if the iPhone is standalone GPS or AGPS.

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post #370 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post



Yes, that's been mentioned, if the GPS solution needs outside assistance (i. e. AGPS or transmission of GPS data to/from your cell phone) then you're skrewed if you're in the boonies.

I guess it's TBD if the iPhone is standalone GPS or AGPS.



I just watched the Google maps section of the keynote again to make sure and Steve does NOT mention any GPS capability. He searches for Moscone West in Google Maps to identify his location. It's cool, but no GPS or AGPS. If the iPhone ships with either it will be a last minute addition because he WOULD have mentioned it in the keynote, even if it didn't work inside the building
post #371 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukasodhner View Post

I just watched the Google maps section of the keynote again to make sure and Steve does NOT mention any GPS capability. He searches for Moscone West in Google Maps to identify his location. It's cool, but no GPS or AGPS. If the iPhone ships with either it will be a last minute addition because he WOULD have mentioned it in the keynote, even if it didn't work inside the building



We'll only know for sure when it ships.

But having said that and considering the FCC E911 requirements and the iPhone price points, I would find it extremely hard to believe the iPhone didn't have at least AGPS.

A nice bonus would be if it was standalone GPS, then that would be just one less item to carry around in your pocket, but since SJ didn't mention it, who knows. An iGPS iPhone iPod iBrowser, now that would be 4 in 1! That would be way cool!

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post #372 of 437
well all i can say is dont expect a version 2 of iphone until the 2 years from the day the phone was released....apple is not going to screw people over he would lose business....everyone wants this phone and they will get it, tons of people will buy this and then be stuck on a 2 year plan, well when your stuck on a new phone you cant really buy the next gen phone unless you pay HUGE bucks, and that wont happen, so they will most likely wait until they know contracts are getting ended and then release it, so those people can then again start a new contract with a new version of the iphone...smart eh ...lol
post #373 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post



We'll only know for sure when it ships.

But having said that and considering the FCC E911 requirements and the iPhone price points, I would find it extremely hard to believe the iPhone didn't have at least AGPS.

A nice bonus would be if it was standalone GPS, then that would be just one less item to carry around in your pocket, but since SJ didn't mention it, who knows. An iGPS iPhone iPod iBrowser, now that would be 4 in 1! That would be way cool!


oh and btw Steve doesnt mention A LOT about the phone, i think what we have seen today is only about HALF of what will be on the phone when it is released..i think he is taking in the publics answers to the phone, and if he likes it he will implement it, hes got all the major parts down, these small things are simple to add...he will do it im sure, like the talk about the camera..not one word, i think that will change as well..
post #374 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by maztermac View Post

Conclusion: I Would NOT buy this phone. Jobs is keeping way too much up his sleeve. Wouldn't want to spend $599 to find out that Jobs is pushing his 4th Gen iPhone with even cooler functions in 5 months. Jobs is so good at doing this. Plus phones are now almost a fashion accessory I wouldn't be at all surprise that other variation of iPhone is on the pipeline with Apple and will be marketed soon ie. different color, ichat, bigger memory, os X leopard the list goes on.....

All that being said I probably will buy the phone anyway, never could resist apple products

I would be surprised if Apple wasn't working on a 3G version of this phone.

It also possible that he's trialing other derivatives.
Eg: an iPhone with no cellular network (just wifi/bluetooth & voip).
post #375 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Not strictly true. On GSM at least the phone knows where it is by triangulating itself against a number of radio masts. It's not as accurate as GPS but it's enough to provide you with a rough start point and it's used to provide local info. Application developers can query the position easily enough.

How well can an accelerometer track your movement. They can tell acceleration, direction change etc, and are used in conjunction with some car GPSes
post #376 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandG View Post

Why don't they group e-mails and sms (and mms which they seem to entirely ommit) together?

I hope that the "visual messages" are actually your voicemail sent as MMS. GSM is a "world standard" and making providers change how they do things would be counterproductive.

Any 2.5G phone can receive MMSes, so it'd be a nice feature.
post #377 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's why I had said, in our earlier discussion, that most cellphones had them.

You did not say "most". You said "all".

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Just how difficult is it for you to type AGPS in Google?

Not difficult. It's just a shame that you and others don't seem able to apply basic logic:

1.) AGPS requires a GPS receiver on the phone, the data received is passed over the network for servers to process the data (GPS requires quite a bit of data processing to determine the actual position).

2.) Saying a phone has AGPS therefore implies that it has a GPS receiver.

3.) Just because the E911 regs were the main driving force behind the development of AGPS, it does not imply that "all phones have AGPS". Other methods are perfectly valid for E911.

4.) No evidence has been provided that all new phones in America have AGPS.

I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of new phones in America that don't have GPS receivers in them. Like all the "basic" (non smartphone) phones e.g. Sony Ericsson W810i, Motorola SLVR etc. etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Every real time reporting site stated that Jobs said it had GPS.

Lets just make it clear that I'm not trying to prove to anyone that the iPhone doesn't have GPS. It's just that no one has proved that Steve actually said it.

Are you not familiar with the game "Chinese whispers"? Just because most of the live reports said he said it, doesn't mean he said it. Someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted what he said.

Someone provided an article that states the iPhone has GPS. Again, I've seen plenty of articles about new Apple products that get features wrong.

I'd say the balance of probability is that he did say it. But we have the benefit that there is a recording of what he said! It would be nice if someone could provide a time stamp, because until then we can't be sure.
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post #378 of 437
You guys are lucky getting the iPhone early at published prices. This beauty will reach Malaysian shores with a premium of 100-200 dollars more only in 2008 . In any case, looking at capacity, the iPhone is a phone/communication tool with a bit of iPod piggyback. The dedicated iPod Video will still be in demand.
post #379 of 437
i dont know if this has been answered/addressed yet...

but all those people whining about 4 and 8 GB not being enough?

COME ON!

i just counted the albums in 4.77 GB of my iTunes

it worked out at 88 albums (NOT counting about a dozen single songs)

its NOT an iPod where you carry your ENTIRE collection around with you, its a mobile device!



and im sure the phone steve demoed was the 8GB version so of course he had plenty of room for TV shows and movies as well
post #380 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

How well can an accelerometer track your movement. They can tell acceleration, direction change etc, and are used in conjunction with some car GPSes



INS or Inertial Navigation Systems are widely used in the aircraft, spacecraft, ballistic missiles, military and commercial shipping, automotive, and motion capture (MoCap) industries but are very expensive depending on class (basically accuracy over a given duration). The newest ones are based on MEMS combined with GPS technologies but still cost thousands of dollars each. So for example a nuclear submarine has an INS costing several million dollars and is good for about a week or so (150 hours) by which time the instrument drift (integration) is such that outside information (i. e. GPS or other external fixed markers) is needed to update the INS otherwise you will miss your intended target(s) with your weapons systems (which also have an INS that needs an initial orientation to start the integration). Obviously submarines know their depth (and roll/pitch through inclinometers, and yaw magnetically) quite accurately (water pressure) over time, but lose X and Y coordinates the quickest.

INS systems use 6 sensors (typically 3 accelerometers and 3 angular rate sensors) in a "strapdown" configuration (rigidly fixed to the moving body), thus these raw signels need to be integrated in time to determine position, Each of the 6 sensors has a signal to noise (S/N) ratio which limits the accuracy of the integration and thus it's position. The Kalman filter is SOP for providing said integration, it is a predictor-corrector real time filter that has been shown (mathematically) provides the most accurate form of integration (and thus position).

So basically these are precision instruments needing (optimally) very low S/N ratios for the sensors to carry out meaningful positioning over significant lengths of time.

Inotherwords, they're EXPENSIVE!

See websites such as Systron-Donner or Crossbow for more information on INS systems.

This link (PDF file) is a good primer on INS technologies; Motion Tracking Requirements and Technologies (see Figure 4)

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post #381 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

How well can an accelerometer track your movement. They can tell acceleration, direction change etc, and are used in conjunction with some car GPSes

Very badly. This subject came up when talking about the Wiimote on Slashdot. Someone came in and gave some examples of all the math involved and basically said it won't work. I don't have the post at my fingertips, and I'm not math smart enough to quote what was said, but essentially it won't work.

- Jasen.

P.S. I still don't believe Steve said the iPhone has GPS. And I posted another Wikipedia article that said Cingular chose not to use GPS (at least according to Wikipedia). And I'm rather ticked that even though my (wife's) current Verizon phone very likely has GPS for E911 I can't use it to find out my own position.
post #382 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Very badly. This subject came up when talking about the Wiimote on Slashdot. Someone came in and gave some examples of all the math involved and basically said it won't work. I don't have the post at my fingertips, and I'm not math smart enough to quote what was said, but essentially it won't work.

- Jasen.

P.S. I still don't believe Steve said the iPhone has GPS. And I posted another Wikipedia article that said Cingular chose not to use GPS (at least according to Wikipedia). And I'm rather ticked that even though my (wife's) current Verizon phone very likely has GPS for E911 I can't use it to find out my own position.



They (INS) work quite well (and are required) for their intended purposes (stability and short term positioning), cheap personal navigation/positioning is NOT they're intended purpose.

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post #383 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebaydan777 View Post

well all i can say is dont expect a version 2 of iphone until the 2 years from the day the phone was released....apple is not going to screw people over he would lose business....everyone wants this phone and they will get it, tons of people will buy this and then be stuck on a 2 year plan, well when your stuck on a new phone you cant really buy the next gen phone unless you pay HUGE bucks, and that wont happen, so they will most likely wait until they know contracts are getting ended and then release it, so those people can then again start a new contract with a new version of the iphone...smart eh ...lol

If you think that Apple will hold off releasing products to avoid hurting the feelings of the early adopters, then you are sorely mistaken. There will be iPhone v1 in June, iPhone v2 in November in time for Christmas - the need to stay ahead of the competition makes this vital to do.
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post #384 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

I would be surprised if Apple wasn't working on a 3G version of this phone.

It also possible that he's trialing other derivatives.
Eg: an iPhone with no cellular network (just wifi/bluetooth & voip).

He said a 3G version was coming.
post #385 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

How well can an accelerometer track your movement. They can tell acceleration, direction change etc, and are used in conjunction with some car GPSes

It can't track your movement.
post #386 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

You did not say "most". You said "all".



Not difficult. It's just a shame that you and others don't seem able to apply basic logic:

1.) AGPS requires a GPS receiver on the phone, the data received is passed over the network for servers to process the data (GPS requires quite a bit of data processing to determine the actual position).

2.) Saying a phone has AGPS therefore implies that it has a GPS receiver.

3.) Just because the E911 regs were the main driving force behind the development of AGPS, it does not imply that "all phones have AGPS". Other methods are perfectly valid for E911.

4.) No evidence has been provided that all new phones in America have AGPS.

I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of new phones in America that don't have GPS receivers in them. Like all the "basic" (non smartphone) phones e.g. Sony Ericsson W810i, Motorola SLVR etc. etc.




Lets just make it clear that I'm not trying to prove to anyone that the iPhone doesn't have GPS. It's just that no one has proved that Steve actually said it.

Are you not familiar with the game "Chinese whispers"? Just because most of the live reports said he said it, doesn't mean he said it. Someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted what he said.

Someone provided an article that states the iPhone has GPS. Again, I've seen plenty of articles about new Apple products that get features wrong.

I'd say the balance of probability is that he did say it. But we have the benefit that there is a recording of what he said! It would be nice if someone could provide a time stamp, because until then we can't be sure.

You didn't follow our entire conversation.

I didn't say that a GPS receiver wasn't in the phone, just the opposite.

Boating used AGPS.
post #387 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You didn't follow our entire conversation.

I didn't say that a GPS receiver wasn't in the phone, just the opposite.

Boating used AGPS.


Maybe you guys need a seperate "GPS in the iPhone" thread, because your comments are way boring.
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post #388 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Maybe you guys need a seperate "GPS in the iPhone" thread, because your comments are way boring.

You don't have to read them.
post #389 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Maybe you guys need a seperate "GPS in the iPhone" thread, because your comments are way boring.



Boring to the casual observer, yes! Boring to the technical observer, no!

I think the basic point about all this is an all-in-one device, look at all the small electronic gadgets you need to carry in your pocket these days (music player, cell phone, pager, car remote, GPS locator, etcetera). SJ gets this, one device and ease of use.

The iPhone appears to be the first device to converge on a number of fronts. And GPS is clearly one of those fronts.

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post #390 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post


.....look at all the small electronic gadgets you need to carry in your pocket these days (music player, cell phone, pager, car remote, GPS locator, etcetera).


I don't want to go through airport security with franksargent.
post #391 of 437
Now there is conformation that this IS a closed device. This is sad. I was hoping to be able to add programs like on my old Samsung, and my Treo, but this is not to be.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/cool...9273014,00.htm
post #392 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

I don't want to go through airport security with franksargent.



You don't want to be behind me, that's for sure, you might miss your plane!

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post #393 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Now there is conformation that this IS a closed device. This is sad. I was hoping to be able to add programs like on my old Samsung, and my Treo, but this is not to be.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/cool...9273014,00.htm



I don't know, motomodders, et. al. seem able to customize their firmware, who knows what the hacking community would do with this thing? But I really don't have a clue!

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post #394 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

If you think that Apple will hold off releasing products to avoid hurting the feelings of the early adopters, then you are sorely mistaken. There will be iPhone v1 in June, iPhone v2 in November in time for Christmas - the need to stay ahead of the competition makes this vital to do.

I'm sure that you mean an iPhone Nano as v2, yes? And I would agree with you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebaydan777

well all i can say is dont expect a version 2 of iphone until the 2 years from the day the phone was released....apple is not going to screw people over he would lose business...

Right. You think Apple is going to sit around for two years with their fingers up their asses and let other manufacturers catch up to them? I'm glad you're not running Apple! The iPhone will be updated yearly (at least). We've had five generations of iPods in just over five years. The iPhone will be similar.

The two-year contract is just something that people will have to live with. I'm sure that the iPhone will do just fine for a two year contract.
post #395 of 437
Ah, watch me everyone as I try and have a debate with Mel. Watch him ignore everything I say and the evidence I present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You didn't follow our entire conversation.

How do you know? Actually, I've been reading this thread from the beginning.

And you've claimed more than once in this thread that all US cell phones have AGPS.

I'm 100% sure that you are wrong.

I have explained how the "evidence" that you've used to try and prove your point does no such thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I didn't say that a GPS receiver wasn't in the phone, just the opposite.

Yeah, I know. I think you need to go back and re-read my post. You think the iPhone has GPS. You think that because lots of people reported Jobs saying it. But someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted. I don't know one way or the other whether the iPhone has GPS or not. No-one has provided a time-stamp for Jobs actually saying it in his keynote, and the official Apple pages make no mention of GPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Boating used AGPS.

How utterly random. What's boating got to do with anything?
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post #396 of 437
I too am in the "we don't know if it has GPS" boat.

Steve didn't mention it and GPS isn't required by law in the US.
post #397 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

I too am in the "we don't know if it has GPS" boat.

Steve didn't mention it and GPS isn't required by law in the US.



I for one will backpetal slightly on GPS in the iPhone, in a probabilistic sense I'd SWAG perhaps 95% certainty for AGPS, and perhaps 60% certainty for GPS.

But I do feel AGPS (at least) is the future of all cell phones, see for example this recent (dated 12/01/06) link;

present and future of GPS chips in cell phones

GPS technologies are really coming down in price and capabilities (indoor GPS) and we have GPS III coming online in 2011-3 timeframe which will further improve civilian GPS applications.

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #398 of 437
Quote:
You have to wonder how many companies Apple may partner with in all of those regions. And in 2 years when the Cingular contract is up, Apple can have its pick of the bunch.

Did Steve specifically say Apple signed a 2 year exclusive contract with Cingular? I might have missed that part.

Quote:
The Edge haters I guess don't think Cingular can upgrade. They've got some time.

This is true. I saw a website for EdgeWireless.com. They offer Edge Unlimited Data rates for $49.99 a month. Its a Cingular service that is currently only offered in the North Western part of the US. I wonder if this is the test for a nation wide roll out.

Here is a comment from Jobs about applications on the iPhone.

“You don’t want your phone to be an open platform,” meaning that anyone can write applications for it and potentially gum up the provider's network, says Jobs. “You need it to work when you need it to work. Cingular doesn’t want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up.”

The platform will need to be open to some degree. What do you do when you receive word and excel documents in your e-mail if the MacBU cannot provide word and excel for the iPhone. I would imagine Apple will have a system for approving apps to run on the cellular network.

There should be a division between the apps. Apps that run on the cellular network have to go through Apple. A framework for general apps to run on the internet but cannot run on the cellular network.
post #399 of 437
What the big deal with GPS?

That's geekware not a killer consumer function.
post #400 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What the big deal with GPS?

That's geekware not a killer consumer function.



It would be if the "killer" is after you, or you want to meet someone in a unknown terrain!

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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