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Apple stuns Macworld crowd with multi-function iPhone device - Page 11

post #401 of 437
Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.

GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...

I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.

Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.

iPhone could sense that you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense that you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work and wake you up.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after losing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...

Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.
post #402 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You don't have to read them.

I want to read everything but them, hence the request for the new thread. There certainly seems like enough intense interest from a select group of readership to merit one.

Here - I'll even do it myself, the thread is created. Mr H and Melgross, please go there.
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post #403 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Did Steve specifically say Apple signed a 2 year exclusive contract with Cingular? I might have missed that part.

Actually, I think the word he used was "multi-year". And from what I read in other threads and other sites is that it's until (or though?) 2009.
post #404 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.

GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...

I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.

Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.

iPhone could sense you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work, and wake up its owner.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after loosing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...

Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.



Yeah, way cool! I'm just SO absent minded, that what you say is just such a great idea, a prioritized shopping (to do) list, within your gadget, that "gently nags" you!

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post #405 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I want to read everything but them, hence the request for the new thread. There certainly seems like enough intense interest from a select group of readership to merit one.

Here - I'll even do it myself, the thread is created. Mr H and Melgross, please go there.



Dons Greenpeace/PETA/hippie peacenik outfit and says,

Hell no we won't go!

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post #406 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Ah, watch me everyone as I try and have a debate with Mel. Watch him ignore everything I say and the evidence I present.



How do you know? Actually, I've been reading this thread from the beginning.

And you've claimed more than once in this thread that all US cell phones have AGPS.

I'm 100% sure that you are wrong.

I have explained how the "evidence" that you've used to try and prove your point does no such thing.



Yeah, I know. I think you need to go back and re-read my post. You think the iPhone has GPS. You think that because lots of people reported Jobs saying it. But someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted. I don't know one way or the other whether the iPhone has GPS or not. No-one has provided a time-stamp for Jobs actually saying it in his keynote, and the official Apple pages make no mention of GPS.



How utterly random. What's boating got to do with anything?

No, I don't want to argue this any further. Let's move on.

I have to leave for the evening right now anyway.

Have fun!
post #407 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of new phones in America that don't have GPS receivers in them.

I would argue that the acronym, GPS, has become somewhat generic since its inception. It no longer only refers to triangulation via multiple satellites It can also mean other methods for extracting one's geolocation; such as, the basic cell phone tracking used by E911. Assuming you are in range of a cellular tower, you basic positon can be tracked, though not nearly as accurate as traditional GPSs.

Check out page 9 of the PDF link (below).The data is over 4 years old, but it does list the various systems and technologies used by carriers at that time.
According to the document, Cingular uses EOTD (Enhanced Observed Time Difference), which uses triangulation from 3 or more cell towers to determine the handset's location within an accuracy of 50 - 200 meters, and U-TDOA (Uplink Time Difference Of Arrival) from TruePositon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Melinger, On 4/12/06

> > Out of the larger carriers in the US, it's my understanding that Verizon
> and Sprint are using A-GPS and the GSM guys, T-Mobile and Cingular are using
> alternative technology like Uplink Time Difference of Arrival (U-TDOA)
> technology provided by TruePosition.
> >
> >
> > A-GPS requires a chip in the phone while U-TDOA doesn't.
(source)
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post #408 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I would argue that the acronym, GPS, has become somewhat generic since its inception.

I don't agree. I'd say that anyone using the acronym GPS to refer to something that doesn't involve receiving GPS data from GPS satellites is wrong and possibly being deliberately misleading.

If a salesperson or marketing materials told you that a phone you were about to by had GPS, but once you'd bought it, you found out that actually it used basestation triangulation, you'd probably be somewhat pissed. GPS you can use when you are outside the phone network.

Having an argument about whether a phone uses AGPS or basestation triangulation would be possibly be pointless, as both require access to the cellular network. I suppose though that AGPS has the potential to be much more accurate.

Whilst on the network, the iPhone will definitely have a mechanism by which it can determine its location and thereby potentially offer location-based services. There is the additional possibility that the iPhone may have GPS which would enable it to determine its position when outside the network. However, with no network connection, it wouldn't be able to offer much in the way of location-based services.
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post #409 of 437
Is it just me or is the GPS discussion, though very worthy and interesting, not deserving of its own thread?

 

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post #410 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Is it just me or is the GPS discussion, though very worthy and interesting, not deserving of its own thread?



Yes it does, enumbers started a new thread, but you know the thread title sukz!

But seriously, I hope we've played out the GPS discussion. For me it was a learning curve, I'd been out of the loop techwise for about 8 years. At least now I know where the technologies are and where they may be going.

At this point until we get more concrete information it seems pointless to discuss further.

iPhone GPS is TBD.

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post #411 of 437
HELL YES on GPS. I was looking at Trimble phones a while back.

With Bluetooth...I hope Trimble comes out with a reciever that talks to this. Or of course better yet Apple integrates GPS. Perhaps licensing/enlisting Trimble or Magellan, as well as Google.
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post #412 of 437
Ok, now, I don't want to re-start the previous argument, but I found this from an ad on a site I was on.

I'm wondering just how it works. They tell you what it can do for you, but not HOW it does it, other than to say it works by GPS, with your phone of choice, and carrier of choice, and is software.

Since it's free for 30 days, I'm almost tempted to try it, even though I don't have a car.
http://store.telenav.net/store/campa...N1160_T_103006

It does say some more in Terms of Service, but it's still unclear.
post #413 of 437
Part II of my "is the iPhone for you?" poll is up. If you haven't voted in Part I, please do so.
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post #414 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Ok, now, I don't want to re-start the previous argument, but I found this from an ad on a site I was on.

I'm wondering just how it works. They tell you what it can do for you, but not HOW it does it, other than to say it works by GPS, with your phone of choice, and carrier of choice, and is software.

Since it's free for 30 days, I'm almost tempted to try it, even though I don't have a car.
http://store.telenav.net/store/campa...N1160_T_103006

It does say some more in Terms of Service, but it's still unclear.



For some reason that link doesn't work for me (I. e. when I go to select a carrier). If you go to their main/basic URL though http://store.telenav.net/store/ that works and you can select carrier and phone model. Note however that the list of available phones is nowhere near a complete list of all available phones from each carrier (either as bought with a new contract or existing contracts) AFAIK. For instance under T-Mobile (my carrier) only one phone is on the list (a Blackberry), and if you select the "Other" option the website displays this message, "TeleNav is not currently available for your phone. Please fill in the following information and we will let you know as soon as TeleNav is available." So who knows, who really knows? Also if you look at available phones for their service providers it appears that a majority on that list require an external Bluetooth GPS receiver.

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post #415 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post

Thus do not rely on this type of GPS if lost in the mountains of Southwest Oregon.

Or AGPS for that matter. No signal=no assistance=no GPS.

That said, the iPhone probably has the computational juice to do GPS with maps, etc. The typical problem with AGPS/GPS in E911 is inability to see any or enough sats. For these purposes TDOA (or any variant) relying on towers is likely better in as much as if the towers can't see you, you aren't calling for help either. AGPS probably works well enough in the car is broken call for help scenario and much better in the rural regions where maybe only 1 tower can see you.

Not so good if I were calling from help from inside my house when the last time the phone got to see sky was a couple hours ago at the mall. I have 2 bars with my phone right now but my PDA based GPS reciever shows zero sats.

Vinea
post #416 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Or AGPS for that matter. No signal=no assistance=no GPS.

That said, the iPhone probably has the computational juice to do GPS with maps, etc. The typical problem with AGPS/GPS in E911 is inability to see any or enough sats. For these purposes TDOA (or any variant) relying on towers is likely better in as much as if the towers can't see you, you aren't calling for help either. AGPS probably works well enough in the car is broken call for help scenario and much better in the rural regions where maybe only 1 tower can see you.

Not so good if I were calling from help from inside my house when the last time the phone got to see sky was a couple hours ago at the mall. I have 2 bars with my phone right now but my PDA based GPS reciever shows zero sats.

Vinea



I think the jury is still out on AGPS specifically indoors, however in the past 5 years great strides have been made with indoor GPS. How good is it in real world usage, that I don't have a clue. And the pricepoint of the best indoor GPS units, again I don't have a clue. If you google indoor and GPS and limit to PDF file type, I think that you will find that most GPS chip makers are evolving their GPS indoor technologies. IMHO some of the indoor GPS technology is amazing (where it works like parking garages, tall buildings, steel trunks), who knows what the future holds for it's adoption.

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post #417 of 437
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post #418 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.

GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...

I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.

Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.

iPhone could sense that you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense that you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work and wake you up.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after losing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...

Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.

The trouble here being that, inevitably, location spamming would become the norm.

Yes, it knows you're at Home Depot and need to pick up steel wool, but it also enthusiastically informs you that Home Depot is running a big sale on random orbit sanders. And that traffic report is brought to you buy Lexus. And turn off your cell phone at the theater but remember to visit the concession stand.

And more of the same, everywhere all the time.

And if you don't think that would happen, you haven't been following the advertising industries strenuous efforts to move ads off of (declining ratings) TV and (declining circulation) print and into the fabric of your day to day life.

Of course, it would all "subsidize" the "cost" of these wonderful new services. Because as we now know, you either let advertisers plaster their stuff all over every available surface, virtual or otherwise, or you forgo all goods and services, since advertising pays for everything always.
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post #419 of 437
Now, about the fretting over closed systems and user installable apps or even user written apps: what are these apps? Anybody here write an app for a smart phone that added significant functionality, or is it just sort of a geek pride thing?

I ask because the tenor of the discussion reminds me of the "no software" caveat re Macs, which in practice means "doesn't have aisle after aisle of poorly written crap-ware, a lot of which was designed to make up for shortcomings in the Windows environment itself, a lot more of which is redundant, and of which 99% of the stuff worth having has a direct Mac equivalent."

So is it possible that between what Apple actually designs into the phone and whatever third party apps make their way through the Apple vetting process the iPhone will actually do 99% of what 99% of users want it to do? And that as it matures as a platform additional apps will become available that will continue to largely address the needs/desires of the large majority of users?

And that whether or not one can install additional apps is mostly an ideological point amongst enthusiasts that just like the idea?

Or are there serious, make it more useful for many people type things that we would anticipate not being included by Apple or its partners? I actually have no idea on this point, not being a smart phone user myself. But a lot of the stuff I've seem mentioned on other forums are hard-core geek niche fun, and it would appear to me pretty much irrelevant to the success of the iPhone.

Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.
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post #420 of 437
I agree for 90% of the market that would buy the iPhone 3rd party apps don't particularly matter as long as the phone come with the software they need. I think Apple already has the ideal development platform in Dashboard Widgets where there are already 2500 apps.

OTHO Apple certainly won't be able to provide everything. Apple is not in control of all internet protocols and document formats. Many people need access to such protocols and formats to conduct their business. There does need to be some room for expansion for legitimate business. For example it should be open to installing a Word and Excel reader or installing a plug in so that Mail can sync with Outlook. If we cannot install flash we will loose much of the functionality on current websites nor will we have the ability to view websites the same way we can on full computers.
post #421 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.

PRECISELY! I couldn't agree more. I've never owned a smart phone. I carry an iPod, a Sony W300i and a Tungsten E2. The money I get from eBaying those three devices will pay for the iPhone (hopefully)! Apple had me sold on simply the interface ... it's easy. I could care less about it being tied to Cingular. Things will come in time and we have 6 months to see what it'll finally become...

I think we're missing the larger significance of the iPhone though. Maybe they're using the iPhone to test the waters for a multi-touch interface laptop. The oft-rumoured "Mac Tablet or iTablet or Pad or whatever". Maybe they road is being paved for a small Ultra-Portable with touch interface and flash memory. If Apple gets the right developers on board, it could be the ultimate tool in the scientific and medical communities. The one area I see problems though is with text input. A lot of people need the tactile recognition of a keyboard. For some reason I can't see tons of people being happy doing more extensive text input on a touch screen. So, as awesome as the iPhone is, I believe it's leading the way to something far more profound here in the next few years...

Maybe something like This, you know, just with OS X and an Apple flair...

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post #422 of 437
How long before Apple changes all their iPhone pics to display AT&T instead of Cingular?



I'm taking friendly wagers for the closest time and day this occurs. I'm saying this happens at 9:30am on Monday, 15-JAN-07.
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post #423 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I agree for 90% of the market that would buy the iPhone 3rd party apps don't particularly matter as long as the phone come with the software they need. I think Apple already has the ideal development platform in Dashboard Widgets where there are already 2500 apps.

OTHO Apple certainly won't be able to provide everything. Apple is not in control of all internet protocols and document formats. Many people need access to such protocols and formats to conduct their business. There does need to be some room for expansion for legitimate business. For example it should be open to installing a Word and Excel reader or installing a plug in so that Mail can sync with Outlook. If we cannot install flash we will loose much of the functionality on current websites nor will we have the ability to view websites the same way we can on full computers.

Good points, gotta figure Apple has something in mind to address flash support and document access-- even Steve isn't that off in his own world.

My guess is that all the major stuff will get covered, in short order if not before release, by Apple or approved third party devs; then will commence the iPhone version of the "sux cause it doesn't support my Ogg rips/Linux/obscure file format" bitch fest.
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post #424 of 437
My Quicktime and iTunes will play XviD and Ogg, so it would be unpleasant to sync my iPhone and have those files not play. I think it would be easy for Apple to just pull these codecs from QT of the synced machine.

Even though it's a stripped down version of Safari with a few additions, I can't imagine that the PDF and FLash support will be left out.

As for MS Office, I at least hope there is a version of TextEdit for us to use. and one that allows you to use a stylus (optional accessory) if one should desire.

I also hope Apple starts selling eBooks on iTunes. Unless I'm long distances, I prefer to read than listen to books. Especially if they are technical in nature.

I rally hope speech-to-text and a voice recorder are in the inital release.
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post #425 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

My Quicktime and iTunes will play XviD and Ogg, so it would be unpleasant to sync my iPhone and have those files not play.

You're going to be disappointed. The iPod plays neither of these formats, don't expect the iPhone to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think it would be easy for Apple to just pull these codecs from QT of the synced machine.

And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.
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post #426 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgNuke1707 View Post

PRECISELY! I couldn't agree more. I've never owned a smart phone. I carry an iPod, a Sony W300i and a Tungsten E2. The money I get from eBaying those three devices will pay for the iPhone (hopefully)! Apple had me sold on simply the interface ... it's easy. I could care less about it being tied to Cingular. Things will come in time and we have 6 months to see what it'll finally become...

I think we're missing the larger significance of the iPhone though. Maybe they're using the iPhone to test the waters for a multi-touch interface laptop. The oft-rumoured "Mac Tablet or iTablet or ?Pad or whatever". Maybe they road is being paved for a small Ultra-Portable with touch interface and flash memory. If Apple gets the right developers on board, it could be the ultimate tool in the scientific and medical communities. The one area I see problems though is with text input. A lot of people need the tactile recognition of a keyboard. For some reason I can't see tons of people being happy doing more extensive text input on a touch screen. So, as awesome as the iPhone is, I believe it's leading the way to something far more profound here in the next few years...

Maybe something like This, you know, just with OS X and an Apple flair...

If you havn't seen the SteveNote by all means do so, the iTunes verson not the VoIP version. The demo of the iPhone was really good. The pinching, scrolling, and rotation features are truly something to see.

I don't know about tactile though, people are just used to it, because that's just the way things are. But I do believe the keypad is just a wee bit small, every time SJ showed the keypad it was in portrait mode, and given the iPhone's width I can see this being a problem for those with supersized fingers or those with below average manual dexterity. It would be nice if like the other functions rotating into landscape would also work for the keypad. Does it?
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post #427 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.

I guess I am disappointed. I thought the codecs were only with the application on the OS.
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post #428 of 437
Searched and couldn't find it, so if this link is here somewhere forgive me.

CBS has posted a video with Phil Schiller demostrating the iPhone.

Not bad and more personal than the Keynote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW7or1TuFk

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #429 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Now, about the fretting over closed systems and user installable apps or even user written apps: what are these apps? Anybody here write an app for a smart phone that added significant functionality, or is it just sort of a geek pride thing?

I ask because the tenor of the discussion reminds me of the "no software" caveat re Macs, which in practice means "doesn't have aisle after aisle of poorly written crap-ware, a lot of which was designed to make up for shortcomings in the Windows environment itself, a lot more of which is redundant, and of which 99% of the stuff worth having has a direct Mac equivalent."

So is it possible that between what Apple actually designs into the phone and whatever third party apps make their way through the Apple vetting process the iPhone will actually do 99% of what 99% of users want it to do? And that as it matures as a platform additional apps will become available that will continue to largely address the needs/desires of the large majority of users?

And that whether or not one can install additional apps is mostly an ideological point amongst enthusiasts that just like the idea?

Or are there serious, make it more useful for many people type things that we would anticipate not being included by Apple or its partners? I actually have no idea on this point, not being a smart phone user myself. But a lot of the stuff I've seem mentioned on other forums are hard-core geek niche fun, and it would appear to me pretty much irrelevant to the success of the iPhone.

Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.

The third party apps often make or break a phone. Both Palm and MS have thousands of third party apps for their phones.

Apple will build in a few, but that doesn't mean that they can do more than skim the surface.

My wife really wants this phone. I'm not so sure for myself right now.

I have two book readers in my Treo 700p, Palmreader and Mobipocket. I keep about two dozen books in my memory card at most times. These phone make very satisfactory readers, if they have enough resolution.

I also have a bunch of games, a drawing program, Tube 2, for tristate rail and subway interactive maps. Mapopolis, for the entire country. Google maps, which is also on my phone can't compete with these in speed, and accuracy.

I have Mobilewrite, which takes the place of Graffiti, and uses the entire screen.

I have a program called UnitConvert, which does as you would imasgine, with thousands of conversions.

I also have a program called Infoview, which gives me electric and electronic information for when I'm working on some project. Info such as chip pin diagrams, circuit diagrams, connector pinouts, tables and formulas, etc.

I have more, but you get the point I think.

Without the ability to add programs, this phone will be dead in the water for many.
post #430 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How long before Apple changes all their iPhone pics to display AT&T instead of Cingular?



I'm taking friendly wagers for the closest time and day this occurs. I'm saying this happens at 9:30am on Monday, 15-JAN-07.

The phone's not out yet. If ATT has already changed their name, then the phone will say ATT the first day it comes out.
post #431 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

You're going to be disappointed. The iPod plays neither of these formats, don't expect the iPhone to.



And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.

Yeah, if Apple's cpu is not the same, the codecs would have to already have been ported, otherwise Apple will have to do soIF those who own the codecs will allow then to. Apple would have to convince them to do so themselves if not.

Apple hasn't shown any interest in these fairly obscure codecs.
post #432 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

If you havn't seen the SteveNote by all means do so, the iTunes verson not the VoIP version. The demo of the iPhone was really good. The pinching, scrolling, and rotation features are truly something to see.

I don't know about tactile though, people are just used to it, because that's just the way things are. But I do believe the keypad is just a wee bit small, every time SJ showed the keypad it was in portrait mode, and given the iPhone's width I can see this being a problem for those with supersized fingers or those with below average manual dexterity. It would be nice if like the other functions rotating into landscape would also work for the keypad. Does it?

I have an idea about that keyboard. My feeling is that from the way it has been described, that the keyboard functions with a multitouch input.

Now, I don't know how many data points multitouch can handle. But, if it can handle several, it might have an advantage here.

If, for example, it can handle a number of inputs at once, it could determine which key you want to press. That is something that has been said about it. And then were are told, the software later makes software corrections.

What I'm thinking is that if you press a key, and center your finger, that key registers just fine. But, if your finger is slightly off that key, and registers a partial press on adjacent keys, there might be a weighted response (if possible). So, if 60% of the pressure was on one key, and no more than 40% on all of the rest of the keys, that one key would register. The numbers could vary, but this could be easily done if enough pressure points could be read at once.

On my Palm, when I hit one key, and slip to another one or two, often, more than one will register in sequence.

Of course, I have no idea how many pressure points can be measured at once. But, if it could be done that way, it would be ideal.

That way, even a "fat" finger could be about as accurate as a "skinny" finger, as long as the center of the key is being pressed, or close to it.

I suspect that something of the kind is going on, even if not exactly what I've just said.

But, even if only two or three presses can be read at once, it could be done, it the readings are fast enough. The machine could "poll" an area around the press in a few milliseconds to get that larger reading quickly enough, before the finger is lifted again.

Again. I don't know just how quickly the device can "read" a spot, but it could be done.
post #433 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Searched and couldn't find it, so if this link is here somewhere forgive me.

CBS has posted a video with Phil Schiller demostrating the iPhone.

Not bad and more personal than the Keynote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW7or1TuFk

Good video.
post #434 of 437

Some of what Pogue is saying seemingly contradicts other information mentioned in the other AI article.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2396

Does it have GPS? I'm beginning to think that it might not. It could be that the web sites that reported that it had were assuming that it did because of the map function. But the AI article isn't quite so definite about it as is his page.

The article says that Pogue said that it does not support "live GPS positioning through its Google Maps tool", which is very different. I don't know of any phone that supports, out of the box, user available live positioning, GPS or not. You can get that service for your kids, or elderly parents phone through a service from the phone company (if they offer it). But, even then, it only works through the phone company.

My old Samsung i330 had GPS, but if you wanted to get GPS software for it, you still needed to get a Palm compatable hardware module.
post #435 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I have two book readers in my Treo 700p, Palmreader and Mobipocket. I keep about two dozen books in my memory card at most times. These phone make very satisfactory readers, if they have enough resolution.

I would be okay with Apple selling eBooks on iTunes. They already sell audio books, why not eBooks? Besides the excellent ability that iPhone's resolution would have in rendering the text, the new and improved text-to-voice capabilities in Leopard could make this even easier.

The Unit Converter I wouldn't worry about as it's a standard Dashboard Widget; it's those proprietary apps that will be the problem. If Apple lets any 4rd-party development happen, it will probably occur with JS Widgets. Can your Treo apps be made to work as a Widget, or are they too complex?
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post #436 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I would be okay with Apple selling eBooks on iTunes. They already sell audio books, why not eBooks? Besides the excellent ability that iPhone's resolution would have in rendering the text, the new and improved text-to-voice capabilities in Leopard could make this even easier.

The Unit Converter I wouldn't worry about as it's a standard Dashboard Widget; it's those proprietary apps that will be the problem. If Apple lets any 4rd-party development happen, it will probably occur with JS Widgets. Can your Treo apps be made to work as a Widget, or are they too complex?

Books are important too me, and going by the popularity of the readers, to many others as well. There are thousands of out of copyright books available as well for FREE. (It shows the Palm on the home page!).

http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page

My UnitConverter program has it over Apple's widget by an order of magnitude.

Most programs I have are too complex to be made into a widget, though some could. There are full fledged databases, etc., out there.

One major store for Palm.

http://www.palmgear.com/
post #437 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I have an idea about that keyboard. My feeling is that from the way it has been described, that the keyboard functions with a multitouch input.

Now, I don't know how many data points multitouch can handle. But, if it can handle several, it might have an advantage here.

If, for example, it can handle a number of inputs at once, it could determine which key you want to press. That is something that has been said about it. And then were are told, the software later makes software corrections.

What I'm thinking is that if you press a key, and center your finger, that key registers just fine. But, if your finger is slightly off that key, and registers a partial press on adjacent keys, there might be a weighted response (if possible). So, if 60% of the pressure was on one key, and no more than 40% on all of the rest of the keys, that one key would register. The numbers could vary, but this could be easily done if enough pressure points could be read at once.

On my Palm, when I hit one key, and slip to another one or two, often, more than one will register in sequence.

Of course, I have no idea how many pressure points can be measured at once. But, if it could be done that way, it would be ideal.

That way, even a "fat" finger could be about as accurate as a "skinny" finger, as long as the center of the key is being pressed, or close to it.

I suspect that something of the kind is going on, even if not exactly what I've just said.

But, even if only two or three presses can be read at once, it could be done, it the readings are fast enough. The machine could "poll" an area around the press in a few milliseconds to get that larger reading quickly enough, before the finger is lifted again.

Again. I don't know just how quickly the device can "read" a spot, but it could be done.

First, I do think the keyboard layout is a wee bit small in portrait mode.

But having said that, I think you're on to something about the software and multitouch combination. First, it's software, so 1) Apple can always change it based on user feedback, and 2) Apple can give the user some customization capability to fit their input style.

On the multitouch side, I'm assuming this is some form of pressure sensitive and it covers the full screen at some "grid" resolution? Anyway, I would think that each key in the layout probably has just a small area in it's center that registers a keystroke. Again since this is software, the two points I made above also apply here, 1) Apple changes the software, and/or 2) Apple gives the end user some customization ability (or a few choices).

Anyway, the more I think about this multitouch and software that can be revised, the neater I think the whole iPhone is.

I want my iPhone!
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