Apple stuns Macworld crowd with multi-function iPhone device - Page 11

Originally Posted by melgross

You don't have to read them.

Originally Posted by TenoBell

Did Steve specifically say Apple signed a 2 year exclusive contract with Cingular? I might have missed that part.

Originally Posted by dfiler

Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.

GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...

I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.

Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.

iPhone could sense you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work, and wake up its owner.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after loosing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...

Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.

Originally Posted by e1618978

I want to read everything but them, hence the request for the new thread. There certainly seems like enough intense interest from a select group of readership to merit one.

Here - I'll even do it myself, the thread is created. Mr H and Melgross, please go there.

Originally Posted by Mr. H

Ah, watch me everyone as I try and have a debate with Mel. Watch him ignore everything I say and the evidence I present.



How do you know? Actually, I've been reading this thread from the beginning.

And you've claimed more than once in this thread that all US cell phones have AGPS.

I'm 100% sure that you are wrong.

I have explained how the "evidence" that you've used to try and prove your point does no such thing.



Yeah, I know. I think you need to go back and re-read my post. You think the iPhone has GPS. You think that because lots of people reported Jobs saying it. But someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted. I don't know one way or the other whether the iPhone has GPS or not. No-one has provided a time-stamp for Jobs actually saying it in his keynote, and the official Apple pages make no mention of GPS.



How utterly random. What's boating got to do with anything?

Originally Posted by Mr. H

I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of new phones in America that don't have GPS receivers in them.

Originally Posted by Dan Melinger, On 4/12/06

> > Out of the larger carriers in the US, it's my understanding that Verizon
> and Sprint are using A-GPS and the GSM guys, T-Mobile and Cingular are using
> alternative technology like Uplink Time Difference of Arrival (U-TDOA)
> technology provided by TruePosition.
> >
> >
> > A-GPS requires a chip in the phone while U-TDOA doesn't.
(source)

Originally Posted by solipsism

I would argue that the acronym, GPS, has become somewhat generic since its inception.

Originally Posted by Bergermeister

Is it just me or is the GPS discussion, though very worthy and interesting, not deserving of its own thread?

Originally Posted by melgross

Ok, now, I don't want to re-start the previous argument, but I found this from an ad on a site I was on.

I'm wondering just how it works. They tell you what it can do for you, but not HOW it does it, other than to say it works by GPS, with your phone of choice, and carrier of choice, and is software.

Since it's free for 30 days, I'm almost tempted to try it, even though I don't have a car.
http://store.telenav.net/store/campa...N1160_T_103006

It does say some more in Terms of Service, but it's still unclear.

Originally Posted by MacGregor

Thus do not rely on this type of GPS if lost in the mountains of Southwest Oregon.

Originally Posted by vinea

Or AGPS for that matter. No signal=no assistance=no GPS.

That said, the iPhone probably has the computational juice to do GPS with maps, etc. The typical problem with AGPS/GPS in E911 is inability to see any or enough sats. For these purposes TDOA (or any variant) relying on towers is likely better in as much as if the towers can't see you, you aren't calling for help either. AGPS probably works well enough in the car is broken call for help scenario and much better in the rural regions where maybe only 1 tower can see you.

Not so good if I were calling from help from inside my house when the last time the phone got to see sky was a couple hours ago at the mall. I have 2 bars with my phone right now but my PDA based GPS reciever shows zero sats.

Vinea

Does it have GPS? No.

Originally Posted by dfiler

Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.

GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...

I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.

Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.

iPhone could sense that you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense that you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work and wake you up.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after losing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...

Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.

Originally Posted by addabox

Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.

Originally Posted by TenoBell

I agree for 90% of the market that would buy the iPhone 3rd party apps don't particularly matter as long as the phone come with the software they need. I think Apple already has the ideal development platform in Dashboard Widgets where there are already 2500 apps.

OTHO Apple certainly won't be able to provide everything. Apple is not in control of all internet protocols and document formats. Many people need access to such protocols and formats to conduct their business. There does need to be some room for expansion for legitimate business. For example it should be open to installing a Word and Excel reader or installing a plug in so that Mail can sync with Outlook. If we cannot install flash we will loose much of the functionality on current websites nor will we have the ability to view websites the same way we can on full computers.

Originally Posted by solipsism

My Quicktime and iTunes will play XviD and Ogg, so it would be unpleasant to sync my iPhone and have those files not play.

Originally Posted by solipsism

I think it would be easy for Apple to just pull these codecs from QT of the synced machine.

Originally Posted by AgNuke1707

PRECISELY! I couldn't agree more. I've never owned a smart phone. I carry an iPod, a Sony W300i and a Tungsten E2. The money I get from eBaying those three devices will pay for the iPhone (hopefully)! Apple had me sold on simply the interface ... it's easy. I could care less about it being tied to Cingular. Things will come in time and we have 6 months to see what it'll finally become...

I think we're missing the larger significance of the iPhone though. Maybe they're using the iPhone to test the waters for a multi-touch interface laptop. The oft-rumoured "Mac Tablet or iTablet or ?Pad or whatever". Maybe they road is being paved for a small Ultra-Portable with touch interface and flash memory. If Apple gets the right developers on board, it could be the ultimate tool in the scientific and medical communities. The one area I see problems though is with text input. A lot of people need the tactile recognition of a keyboard. For some reason I can't see tons of people being happy doing more extensive text input on a touch screen. So, as awesome as the iPhone is, I believe it's leading the way to something far more profound here in the next few years...

Maybe something like This, you know, just with OS X and an Apple flair...

Originally Posted by Mr. H

And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.

Originally Posted by addabox

Now, about the fretting over closed systems and user installable apps or even user written apps: what are these apps? Anybody here write an app for a smart phone that added significant functionality, or is it just sort of a geek pride thing?

I ask because the tenor of the discussion reminds me of the "no software" caveat re Macs, which in practice means "doesn't have aisle after aisle of poorly written crap-ware, a lot of which was designed to make up for shortcomings in the Windows environment itself, a lot more of which is redundant, and of which 99% of the stuff worth having has a direct Mac equivalent."

So is it possible that between what Apple actually designs into the phone and whatever third party apps make their way through the Apple vetting process the iPhone will actually do 99% of what 99% of users want it to do? And that as it matures as a platform additional apps will become available that will continue to largely address the needs/desires of the large majority of users?

And that whether or not one can install additional apps is mostly an ideological point amongst enthusiasts that just like the idea?

Or are there serious, make it more useful for many people type things that we would anticipate not being included by Apple or its partners? I actually have no idea on this point, not being a smart phone user myself. But a lot of the stuff I've seem mentioned on other forums are hard-core geek niche fun, and it would appear to me pretty much irrelevant to the success of the iPhone.

Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.

Originally Posted by solipsism

How long before Apple changes all their iPhone pics to display AT&T instead of Cingular?



I'm taking friendly wagers for the closest time and day this occurs. I'm saying this happens at 9:30am on Monday, 15-JAN-07.

Originally Posted by Mr. H

You're going to be disappointed. The iPod plays neither of these formats, don't expect the iPhone to.



And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.

Originally Posted by franksargent

If you havn't seen the SteveNote by all means do so, the iTunes verson not the VoIP version. The demo of the iPhone was really good. The pinching, scrolling, and rotation features are truly something to see.

I don't know about tactile though, people are just used to it, because that's just the way things are. But I do believe the keypad is just a wee bit small, every time SJ showed the keypad it was in portrait mode, and given the iPhone's width I can see this being a problem for those with supersized fingers or those with below average manual dexterity. It would be nice if like the other functions rotating into landscape would also work for the keypad. Does it?

Originally Posted by Bergermeister

Searched and couldn't find it, so if this link is here somewhere forgive me.

CBS has posted a video with Phil Schiller demostrating the iPhone.

Not bad and more personal than the Keynote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW7or1TuFk

Originally Posted by franksargent

NY Times David Pogue's The Ultimate iPhone Frequently Asked Questions

Originally Posted by melgross

I have two book readers in my Treo 700p, Palmreader and Mobipocket. I keep about two dozen books in my memory card at most times. These phone make very satisfactory readers, if they have enough resolution.

Originally Posted by solipsism

I would be okay with Apple selling eBooks on iTunes. They already sell audio books, why not eBooks? Besides the excellent ability that iPhone's resolution would have in rendering the text, the new and improved text-to-voice capabilities in Leopard could make this even easier.

The Unit Converter I wouldn't worry about as it's a standard Dashboard Widget; it's those proprietary apps that will be the problem. If Apple lets any 4rd-party development happen, it will probably occur with JS Widgets. Can your Treo apps be made to work as a Widget, or are they too complex?

Originally Posted by melgross

I have an idea about that keyboard. My feeling is that from the way it has been described, that the keyboard functions with a multitouch input.

Now, I don't know how many data points multitouch can handle. But, if it can handle several, it might have an advantage here.

If, for example, it can handle a number of inputs at once, it could determine which key you want to press. That is something that has been said about it. And then were are told, the software later makes software corrections.

What I'm thinking is that if you press a key, and center your finger, that key registers just fine. But, if your finger is slightly off that key, and registers a partial press on adjacent keys, there might be a weighted response (if possible). So, if 60% of the pressure was on one key, and no more than 40% on all of the rest of the keys, that one key would register. The numbers could vary, but this could be easily done if enough pressure points could be read at once.

On my Palm, when I hit one key, and slip to another one or two, often, more than one will register in sequence.

Of course, I have no idea how many pressure points can be measured at once. But, if it could be done that way, it would be ideal.

That way, even a "fat" finger could be about as accurate as a "skinny" finger, as long as the center of the key is being pressed, or close to it.

I suspect that something of the kind is going on, even if not exactly what I've just said.

But, even if only two or three presses can be read at once, it could be done, it the readings are fast enough. The machine could "poll" an area around the press in a few milliseconds to get that larger reading quickly enough, before the finger is lifted again.

Again. I don't know just how quickly the device can "read" a spot, but it could be done.