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iPhone implications for G6 iPod

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
So I look at iPhone and I have to believe that we are essentially looking at a souped up version of the next iPod. Can we expect that iPod 6G will look just like iPhone, just without the phone part?
post #2 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishan View Post

So I look at iPhone and I have to believe that we are essentially looking at a souped up version of the next iPod. Can we expect that iPod 6G will look just like iPhone, just without the phone part?


Looks like the clickwheel is gone even in a virtual form. I like the new iPod interface.
post #3 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishan View Post

So I look at iPhone and I have to believe that we are essentially looking at a souped up version of the next iPod. Can we expect that iPod 6G will look just like iPhone, just without the phone part?

I would guess yes, but that we won't see the new iPod until the fall (to give people a chance to buy the iPhone first).
post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

I would guess yes, but that we won't see the new iPod until the fall (to give people a chance to buy the iPhone first).


and that my friend really pisses me off..................... Its a money move from apple and I hate every part of it!
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post #5 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

I would guess yes, but that we won't see the new iPod until the fall (to give people a chance to buy the iPhone first).

I think you're right and that's possibly why there were no Mac updates at Macword either. They'll need to have several new hardware announcements between now and then.

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post #6 of 31
Watching the video of iPod functionality at the Apple site makes me wonder why we all thought that a touch screen would be a reason to deploy a virtual scroll wheel.

Context sensitive control surfaces and gestural touch input make the scroll wheel completely unnecessary. It also addresses pretty much all of the complaints about navigation on the current iPods-- volume is always immediately accessible, you don't have to step through hierarchies to get to the list you want, etc.

Throw in coverflow for album browsing and widescreen for video, and it looks like just about the time the competition is figuring out how to replicate the old iPod Apple will leapfrog them again.

If they don't bring out a high end iPod with exactly the same functionality as the "iPod" part of the iPhone within a few months at around $300 I'll be very surprised. And suddenly the Zune looks like a quaint brick from ye olden days.
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post #7 of 31
The amazing thing is eventually -- eventually -- all iPods with screens will be running OS X. A somewhat tweaked, slimmed version of OS X, sure, but OS X.

It does inevitable that 6G iPod will be a widescreen model running OS X (just like the iPhone), plus internet features (usable via WiFi), and minus the phone capabilities. But running OS X is surely takes more horsepower than the current iPods, so it may well be introduced first as high-end model (say, fall '07) supplementing rather than replacing the 5.5G models, in the $299-$399 range. It'll be interesting to see.
post #8 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayapple View Post

and that my friend really pisses me off..................... Its a money move from apple and I hate every part of it!

meh... what can you do? If people buy a product that they need there is very little chance of buyer's remorse. If one buys a product that is much more than they ever wanted just because it's looks cool, then they get what they deserve.

If you don't want the phone/browser part of the iPhone, just wait until the inevidable update to the iPod. Your current iPod will do you just fine until then; in fact, I would submit that your current iPod will likely do you just fine until the 7Gen iPod rolls out -- I'm still using a 1Gen Mini and 1Gen Shuffle quite happily (though I think it's about time to upgrade the battery on my Mini).
post #9 of 31
somehow, i just don't see the "iPhone OSX" running off of an iPod harddrive. it would be very unresponsive (lot's of lag) and batterylife ... oh, i don't know, you probably couldn't use the word "life" for such a short time span anymore.
post #10 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Watching the video of iPod functionality at the Apple site makes me wonder why we all thought that a touch screen would be a reason to deploy a virtual scroll wheel.

Assuming the basic iPhone interface is coming soon to an iPod near you (and I do assume that) I'd still like a virtual click wheel.

The touch screen interface would make the iPod a two-handed device, and the fact that my current (3G) iPod only requires one hand is one of the things I like best about it.


Heck, if they can do the whole pinch zoom thing, it seems like they could make it figure out when you're making a circular motion with your thumb. (that's what i'd want most, not the whole click wheel interface, just scrolling with my thumb).
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post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
I am suddenly not so sure about the virtual click wheel. I think I might prefer the "flick" that seems possible on the keynote video. What I hope is that the next gen iPods are essentially iPhones without the phone. Give me the internet connectivity and the orientation sensitive screen with coverflow and I will be one happy guy. They wouldn't have to worrry about canabalizing regular iPod sales because without the Cingular subsidy, I think such an iPod would still cost around $499. I would probably pay this for an internet device/iPod without phone.
post #12 of 31
Apple could redesign the 6G iPod along the lines of the iPhone and include 1GB of flash memory for the OS. No need to rely on the HD for the OS to operate. I wonder what processor would be used. The iPhone doesn't use an Intel chip yet runs a variant of OS X.

BTW, the iPhone is almost identical in size to the 30GB iPod, just a bit taller. The weight is the same.
post #13 of 31
Good point about click wheel one-handedness. I think Apple could pretty easily write a virtual click-wheel as a software update, and add it as a view option.

Still, I could imagine acquiring the muscle memory to go one handed-- thumb reaches over to toggle list few, thumb flicks up and down, thumb selects item. We'll just have to wait and see how natural that feels. I think if someone had described the operation of a click wheel before you held one it might have sounded pretty awkward.
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post #14 of 31
True, using it one handed might be less awkward than it looks. Guess we'll just have to wait and see
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post #15 of 31
i think it's strange how un-appleish the new phone looks. it looks weird, like a mobile phone company taking a page out of apple's book, but not quite getting the design perfect.. is it like this to seperate it from the actual ipod?
post #16 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

I would guess yes, but that we won't see the new iPod until the fall (to give people a chance to buy the iPhone first).


My guess would be that Apple would release it's 6th generation iPod sooner than that . I will not be surprise if they release it around April or May because they need to maintain their domination of the mp3 player market . And besides, it's the best marketing tool they will ever have in getting gadget lovers people to buy an iPhone ( or whatever the phone would be called upon it's release date ) . It's imperative for Apple to release their new iPod soon to stymie other mp3 players from catching up.
post #17 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post

My guess would be that Apple would release it's 6th generation iPod sooner than that. And besides, it's the best marketing tool they will ever have in getting gadget lovers people to buy an iPhone

I tend to agree... it will teach a new generation of iPod users how to use the iPhone before they even buy the iPhone.

Plus, it would put more OS X systems into people hands and consciousness, continuing to build the brand.
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post #18 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post

My guess would be that Apple would release it's 6th generation iPod sooner than that . I will not be surprise if they release it around April or May because they need to maintain their domination of the mp3 player market . And besides, it's the best marketing tool they will ever have in getting gadget lovers people to buy an iPhone ( or whatever the phone would be called upon it's release date ) . It's imperative for Apple to release their new iPod soon to stymie other mp3 players from catching up.

That will depend a lot on how much Apple believes that the 6Gen iPod will bleed sales from their iPhone in June. If the 6Gen iPod resembles the iPhone, I don't think that they will risk the loss in sales of a new product line, simply to introduce another iPod.

Just think about it: the iPod is already selling well, and will continue to do so for the next year even if Apple doesn't update it. One look at the iPhone and you know that Apple has a potential winner up their sleeves if they introduce it as an iPod.

But what happens if they introduce an iPod that is like the iPhone, only without the smartphone features? Will everyone and their dog just snap up that device immediately because, well, they don't really need the smart phone. In this case, June rolls around, and the people who had the patience to wait for the iPhone are rewarded, but the sales for that device are lower than they could have been because half of the potential customers decided that they didn't want to wait, or decided that they actually didn't need a smart phone. Then Cingular is pissed off because their margins are lower than expected, and they become less willing to work with Apple to make 2Gen iPhone a real knock-out punch!

If you think Apple is this stupid, well... This is why I say that, unless the 6Gen iPod is nothing like the iPhone, we will not see it until iPhone has had a few months to establish itself. There have been updates to iPods in late September / early October each of the last two years. This seems like a good time to introduce the 6Gen iPod.
post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

If you think Apple is this stupid, well....

I am an Apple VAR and do not think them stupid at all.

But the Zune is out for better or (mostly) worse, and more importantly the genie is out of the bottle in terms of a Widescreen touch-controlled iPod experience, leveraging the current iTunes UI. Now the 5G looks anemic by comparison.

We were told by this and other rumor sites that the delay in Apple's 6G widescreen video iPod was the availability of widescreen content (movies) on iTMS. The deals SJ was hoping to negotiate ($9.99 per title, liberal DRM, all major studios) didn't work out quite as planned, and the iPhone was in the announcement horizon, so it was delayed for multiple reasons.

Speaking of anemic, 4 and 8GB is positively PUNY for serious audio and video libraries, especially movie-based ones. If SJ is going to attract more big studios to offer their movie catalogs on iTMS, there sure as well better be some players out there that can handle it.

Plus, there are lots of us with Treos and Blackberries and Razrs and the like, and Verizon and T-Mobile subscribers that are not ready to switch phones/carriers, but want the other features of the iPod aspect of the iPhone. Is Apple going to wait until the Fall or Winter to sell us something new?

Each new version of the iPod was designed to both stay ahead of the competition (raise the bar and grab more market share) and make previous gen iPod owners unhappy with what they had in order to upgrade (increase revenue from existing user base).

Time will tell.

-g
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post #20 of 31
Agree with above.

I dont think there will be that much overlap between a 100GB w/s viPod & an 8 GB iPhone.

Personally, I will get both if available.

Will the sales of the 80GB viPod decrease now - I was going to buy one post keynote if there wasn't a new iPod released, but after seeing the iPhone, I am going to continue to wait for the 6G version as it should be a significant improvement on the 5.5G version
post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

That will depend a lot on how much Apple believes that the 6Gen iPod will bleed sales from their iPhone in June. If the 6Gen iPod resembles the iPhone, I don't think that they will risk the loss in sales of a new product line, simply to introduce another iPod.

Just think about it: the iPod is already selling well, and will continue to do so for the next year even if Apple doesn't update it. One look at the iPhone and you know that Apple has a potential winner up their sleeves if they introduce it as an iPod.

But what happens if they introduce an iPod that is like the iPhone, only without the smartphone features? Will everyone and their dog just snap up that device immediately because, well, they don't really need the smart phone. In this case, June rolls around, and the people who had the patience to wait for the iPhone are rewarded, but the sales for that device are lower than they could have been because half of the potential customers decided that they didn't want to wait, or decided that they actually didn't need a smart phone. Then Cingular is pissed off because their margins are lower than expected, and they become less willing to work with Apple to make 2Gen iPhone a real knock-out punch!

If you think Apple is this stupid, well... This is why I say that, unless the 6Gen iPod is nothing like the iPhone, we will not see it until iPhone has had a few months to establish itself. There have been updates to iPods in late September / early October each of the last two years. This seems like a good time to introduce the 6Gen iPod.

If Microsoft is not in the picture , then you may have a point . But Microsoft won't wait for Apple to release it's 6th gen iPod nor would any other iPod competitor . Apple will make more money in releasing it's 6th generation iPod because there are multitudes of iPod users and customers who wanted only a music/movie player and are loathe to give up their cell phones and cellular services just because the iPhone is available and awesome to use. The iPhone will sell , but Apple is foolish if it follows your suggestion in regards to waiting for the end of summer ,early fall to release it's new iPod, the opportunity for Apple to really own the mp3 player industry is now , waiting for iPhones to sell gives it's competitors especially Microsoft to gain a significant foothold on the industry. Let iPhone succeed on it's own merits on the Smart cellphone market , but let the iPod win it all now on it's own market.
post #22 of 31
The click wheel will not leave us any time soon. The iPod nanos should retain the scroll wheel for at least the 2007 holiday season, and if you ask me, the 2008 shopping season as well. The video iPod is the next click wheel to go multi-touch, but I don't know that will be this year either because Apple wants to make their iPhone more desirable for longer.
post #23 of 31
My guess right now is that the true video iPod will arrive September 2007 as part of the yearly hardware "refresh" of iPod models.

It will have the thickness of the current 80 GB 5.5G iPod, but offer a 16:9 aspect ratio display, touchscreen controls and display resolution about the same as the original Macintosh (around 512 x 342)! 8) It won't be cheap, though--I can guess about US$499 for the 80 GB model and US$599 for the 120 GB model.
post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball View Post

The click wheel will not leave us any time soon. The iPod nanos should retain the scroll wheel for at least the 2007 holiday season, and if you ask me, the 2008 shopping season as well. The video iPod is the next click wheel to go multi-touch, but I don't know that will be this year either because Apple wants to make their iPhone more desirable for longer.

I think that's right. The Nano will continue to add capacity and functionality. Base model Nanos will continue to drop in price.

By this time next year I wouldn't be surprised to see 2GB shuffles selling for $49, 4GB Nanos at $99 and 8 and 16GB models available at $149 and $199 respectively. They'll become "the iPod classic" for all intents and purposes, retaining the simplicity of the click wheel and the focus of purpose. It's only a matter of a year or two before flash players move into the realm formally occupied by the smaller HDD models, at which point the old iPod paradigm is fully replicated by the Nano.

Meanwhile, the HDD based models will migrate to the new UI, add all kind of new functionality, and satisfy a somewhat different market than "music player". 100GB drives and up are overkill for the vast majority of people who want "just" an MP3 player, and that kind of capacity is clearly where the HDD models are headed. The new UI is just the thing for all that video and data and photo stuff you'll be carrying on your "Ultra Pod".
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post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

That will depend a lot on how much Apple believes that the 6Gen iPod will bleed sales from their iPhone in June. If the 6Gen iPod resembles the iPhone, I don't think that they will risk the loss in sales of a new product line, simply to introduce another iPod.

Just think about it: the iPod is already selling well, and will continue to do so for the next year even if Apple doesn't update it. One look at the iPhone and you know that Apple has a potential winner up their sleeves if they introduce it as an iPod.

But what happens if they introduce an iPod that is like the iPhone, only without the smartphone features? Will everyone and their dog just snap up that device immediately because, well, they don't really need the smart phone. In this case, June rolls around, and the people who had the patience to wait for the iPhone are rewarded, but the sales for that device are lower than they could have been because half of the potential customers decided that they didn't want to wait, or decided that they actually didn't need a smart phone. Then Cingular is pissed off because their margins are lower than expected, and they become less willing to work with Apple to make 2Gen iPhone a real knock-out punch!

If you think Apple is this stupid, well... This is why I say that, unless the 6Gen iPod is nothing like the iPhone, we will not see it until iPhone has had a few months to establish itself. There have been updates to iPods in late September / early October each of the last two years. This seems like a good time to introduce the 6Gen iPod.

I have to agree. Apple tends to protect the high margin product to the determint of the low end. The problem, as stated by Wil, is that the iPod can't afford to stand still with MS and the other cell companies trying to move up. Using the iPhone interface and some of its features coupled with the iPods lower price and higher storage would be a winner. Of course Apple being Apple they might force people to pay for the advancements.
post #26 of 31
I think that we will see a 100gig iPod with the iPhone interface within two months. Apple would be foolish to wait on this.

I kind of hope that they keep the physical clickwheel on the 30/40 gig models, as it is probably a lot easier to fiddle with the volume in bed in the dark with a physical clickwheel.
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post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball View Post

The click wheel will not leave us any time soon. The iPod nanos should retain the scroll wheel for at least the 2007 holiday season, and if you ask me, the 2008 shopping season as well. The video iPod is the next click wheel to go multi-touch, but I don't know that will be this year either because Apple wants to make their iPhone more desirable for longer.

I do hope the wheel will stay permanently with all iPods, save for the iTouch of course. I'm reminded of its retro flavour when I twirl my finger on my shirt pocket for Volume.

Also, the click buttons are easily located blind besides, the Bose Soundock's 'Redifussion' look just blends with the click-wheel and oblong screen. You can't go wrong with a wheel design in any era, don't you think?
post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Peters View Post

I do hope the wheel will stay permanently with all iPods, save for the iTouch of course. I'm reminded of its retro flavour when I twirl my finger on my shirt pocket for Volume.

Also, the click buttons are easily located blind besides, the Bose Soundock's 'Redifussion' look just blends with the click-wheel and oblong screen. You can't go wrong with a wheel design in any era, don't you think?

Don't start calling it the iTouch - that was a hoax, and the name sux.
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post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Don't start calling it the iTouch - that was a hoax, and the name sux.

It does suck I agree - Huh, I thought no one would notice - but if Cisco declines the waltz Apple may have no other choice.
post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01 View Post

My guess right now is that the true video iPod will arrive September 2007 as part of the yearly hardware "refresh" of iPod models.

It will have the thickness of the current 80 GB 5.5G iPod, but offer a 16:9 aspect ratio display, touchscreen controls and display resolution about the same as the original Macintosh (around 512 x 342)! 8) It won't be cheap, though--I can guess about US$499 for the 80 GB model and US$599 for the 120 GB model.

I think the Video iPod will use the exact same screen as the iPhone but will be a slightly smaller device not having all the cell phone/wireless stuff in it. It will be thicker due to the 60GB and 100GB hard drives though. It should have many of the iPhone features such as photo viewing, coverflow, etc. Don't forget games. That was not mentioned during the keynote but I'm sure the iPhone will have them too. The interface can mimick various game controllers. I'm thinking $399 and $499.

     197619842014  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

MacBook Pro Retina, 13", 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD

iPhone 5s • iPad mini Retina • Chromebook Pixel • Nexus 7

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     197619842014  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

MacBook Pro Retina, 13", 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD

iPhone 5s • iPad mini Retina • Chromebook Pixel • Nexus 7

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post #31 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I think that we will see a 100gig iPod with the iPhone interface within two months. Apple would be foolish to wait on this.

I kind of hope that they keep the physical clickwheel on the 30/40 gig models, as it is probably a lot easier to fiddle with the volume in bed in the dark with a physical clickwheel.

Apple must consider this. The iPod video as opposed to the iPhone is about minimal handling. On the move its designed to be hung down there with your finger twirling the wheel blind on volume and selection. The wheel is old school I know, but thats the attraction of the whole iPod range. Therefore, should the next iPod embrace the touch interface, you can say goodbye to old school tactile, besides the thing will look like another phone with Nokia and Motorola waiting in the wings to copy the iPhone interface.
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