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Pogue offers answers to some burning iPhone questions - Page 2

post #41 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Oh, that truly is a bummer I was so much looking forward of manipulating the Hula Girl widget with my fingers

Maybe they should keep it a closed platform. I can think of a lot of dirty things to do with a multi-touch screen. Interactive porn, anyone?
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post #42 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrik_L View Post

No Outlook-syncing on Windows-computers is a big dissapointment. Sure, I am a mac-user. but as many else I am forced to work with Windows everyday, and on my compay Exchange with Outlook is used for all planning and email. To not being able to sync with Outlook on my job is a huge dealbreaker for me, since it is necessary.

Hopefully David is wrong about this, because if it is correct, I think Apple would sell a lot fewer phones. I mean, even th iPod can today sync with Outlook, via iTunes.

My guess is that this is a misunderstanding; Apple says it won't sync with Outlook directly, but it will sync with iTunes and get data from Outlook through it.

It's pretty easy to set Outlook to forward email, and I believe you are right, since I doubt Apple is going to alter iTunes for Windows to also be an address book and calendar program.
post #43 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Too bad about the GPS. I thought iPhone would do directions too.

I'm sure that before long you'll be able to...
1) buy a small bluetooth GPS receiver
2) turn it on
3) throw it up on your dash
4) get GPS coordinates sent wirelessly to your iPhone.

This solution would still require downloading map data via the cellular connection.
Unfortunately the iPhone's lack of internal storage means you won't be able to carry maps of all of North America.
post #44 of 87
I think a lot of you are hyperventilating..... e.g., no one from Apple has said "no 3rd party apps" (in fact, Jobs has implied the opposite in an interview with MSNBC -- he just wants them to not screw up the software, and hence operation of the phone, that's all); no one has said "no 3G" (in fact, Jobs has said the opposite); if iPods can currently do MS Outlook (a piece of s**t by way way of an email app, but I suppose people still use it), I see no reason why a new iPod shouldn't be able to either (but Jobs hasn't said this yet); if I can sync my wireless keyboard etc via bluetooth in OSX, I expect that I should be able to do the same with iPhone (but Jobs hasn't said this yet); re the phone being unlocked, the law, as I understand it in the US, requires the service provider to unlock it for you after 6 months; no one has said that .Mac won't work;..... and on and on.

Read the many insightful reader responses to Pogue's posts before getting in a tizzy, guys! (See links in my previous post).

However, I suppose some of these (e.g., bluetooth or other OSX-depdendent functionality) could be issues for Vista/Windows users. But they can always switch to a Mac.
post #45 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdj21ya View Post

It's pretty easy to set Outlook to forward email, and I believe you are right, since I doubt Apple is going to alter iTunes for Windows to also be an address book and calendar program.

It already is. http://www.apple.com/ipod/sync.html

iTunes is the multi-headed bloated beast of the Apple world roaming over your peripherals consuming all resources in it's old carbon ways. I wish they'd just fscking stop adding more and more to the thing and do the right thing and pension iTunes off. It badly needs a rewrite. If they did, then they could port iSync to Windows too and expand that instead of putting more crap all in to one program.
post #46 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

...; if iPods can currently do MS Outlook (a piece of s**t by way way of an email app, but I suppose people still use it), I see no reason why a new iPod shouldn't be able to either (but Jobs hasn't said this yet); ....

Sorry.... I meant the calendar program (whatever it's called), not MS Outlook!
post #47 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Sorry.... I meant the calendar program (whatever it's called), not MS Outlook!

It's called MS Outlook.

On Windows you've got

Outlook - includes email, shared addressbook, forms, calendar, todo, meetings all in one groupware application and works with Exchange Server - it's hideous. It comes with the pro version of Office. Late in it's life they added in internet mail too but most corporate types don't use the internet based standards to talk to their mail server (ie. IMAP, POP3 etc). It was MS's answer to Lotus Notes rather than being an internet based thing.

Outlook Express - Totally unrelated to Outlook. Produced by a different team even. No Calendar, no address book (it uses the local WAB address book), no todo and can't work with Exchange other than via IMAP/POP3. This is their entry level mail program.

Both used to have totally different interfaces though they've got more similar over time.

In Vista, Outlook Express is replaced by 'Windows Mail'. I'm not sure what they're doing with Outlook as I've not had the inclination to look.


On the Mac we've not really got the groupware backend yet - the Exchange Server - if you will. That would appear to be changing in Leopard as they've been implementing CalDAV for sharing calendars, a centralised wiki! and Open Directory. All based on internet standards. That doesn't really help anyone stuck in corporate Microsoft land though wanting to sync info from an Exchange server and an IT department that fear for their jobs if something other than Microsoft enters their realm.
post #48 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

It's called MS Outlook.

On Windows you've got

Outlook - includes email, shared addressbook, forms, calendar, todo, meetings all in one groupware application and works with Exchange Server - it's hideous. It comes with the pro version of Office. Late in it's life they added in internet mail too but most corporate types don't use the internet based standards to talk to their mail server (ie. IMAP, POP3 etc). It was MS's answer to Lotus Notes rather than being an internet based thing.

Outlook Express - Totally unrelated to Outlook. Produced by a different team even. No Calendar, no address book (it uses the local WAB address book), no todo and can't work with Exchange other than via IMAP/POP3. This is their entry level mail program.

Both used to have totally different interfaces though they've got more similar over time.

In Vista, Outlook Express is replaced by 'Windows Mail'. I'm not sure what they're doing with Outlook as I've not had the inclination to look.


On the Mac we've not really got the groupware backend yet - the Exchange Server - if you will. That would appear to be changing in Leopard as they've been implementing CalDAV for sharing calendars, a centralised wiki! and Open Directory. All based on internet standards. That doesn't really help anyone stuck in corporate Microsoft land though wanting to sync info from an Exchange server and an IT department that fear for their jobs if something other than Microsoft enters their realm.

aegisdesign,

How does synching work in a heterogeneous environment, with multiple email accounts? I mean does the iPhone act as the lowest common denominator (LCD), synching the various email accounts across several computers (Macs and PC's)?

I do know the Feds are super slow in adopting stuff, are pretty much standardized on the MS Outlook/Office paradigm, and are supercautious WRT security issues. Inotherwords slow as molasses!

And this gets into the seemless-ease-of-use argument which I believe synching is supposed to offer. All I know is that Macs in a PC centric environment are an uphill battle, a go it yourself strategy, you really have to want to use a Mac, and most people I've met in these PC centric environments don't give the Mac a second thought. So it makes me wonder how successful the iPhone will be in the corporate world?
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post #49 of 87
I think AI -- or one of the knowledgeable elders in this group (of which there are many) -- could do a HUGE service to the Apple community, to Apple, and perhaps even to its stock price tomorrow, if they could synthesize and post as a story the great insights from the many reader responses to Pogue's posts.

Almost every one of his major assertions has been challenged, and it would be just great to see it all in one place. It would provide a more rational forum to argue -- right now, much of what I am seeing in many of these forums (AI, Macrumors, cnet.com, etc) are a bunch of "OMFG"-type responses to Pogue.

AI? Please !?
post #50 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by milton.john View Post

full Java engine would only be a "heavyweight ball and chain" no one uses.

This is really strange. I am not sure about USA, but here in Europe Java-based games are big part of mobile business.

The people that I talked to several months ago said that the Java that's on mobile phones is not the full Java engine. There's a chance that the iPhone will have more of the same.
post #51 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

1. Who knows, they might introduce 3G for the european launch. 3G is after all available in Europe. And after all... it's a year from now we're talking about.

That could be a second-generation version. Frankly, I think the rest of the world is lucky in this regard. I hope Apple will take the complaints and improves the product. I think there is more for them to say too, the AppleTV is quite a bit more advanced than what they said about the preproduction version.
post #52 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It looks like Apple is still fighting with Cingular (er, AT&T) over this. They charge $2.49 for a ringtone and really don't to lose that supplemental income.

The exonomics of this are odd to me: lets just do some math herew:

Most people buy 1 or 2 ringtones and use them for a year or maybe even the whole term of the contract, even if you buy 10 ringtones in the life of your contract, that is $25 less whatever they pay the labels. now if I am looking at a $50/M voice and $5/M text pack on a Razor or a $50/Mo voice, $30-ish/Mo data and and a big SMS/MMS pack at ~$12/Mo on an expensive handset. Cingular would be wise to make this consession.
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post #53 of 87
First they take Newton off the market, don't open source it, and now they are intentionally handicapping the one thing that could easily be its successor. That's just irrational. If people want PDA functionality, handwriting data entry, etc., and are willing to pay extra for it, why not let them? Why does Apple think some people's biases against PDAs justifies driving willing Apple customers to other markets? That's not good business, that's obsessive control disorder.
post #54 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I, too, have heard that Apple will not allow 3rd-party developers. Can you please post a link to this fact without calling me a fuckwit or some other pejorative name?

Here's a Jobs quote, you fuckwit :

Quote:
These are devices that need to work, and you cant do that if you load any software on them, he said. That doesnt mean theres not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesnt mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.
post #55 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The people that I talked to several months ago said that the Java that's on mobile phones is not the full Java engine. There's a chance that the iPhone will have more of the same.

Sure, Java has 3 main editions : Micro Edition (Java ME), Standard edition and Enterprise Edition. Phones typically support Java ME. That is enough to open a lot of functionality for 3rd party apps and yet keep the phone safe. I would be happy with it.
post #56 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

aegisdesign,

How does synching work in a heterogeneous environment, with multiple email accounts? I mean does the iPhone act as the lowest common denominator (LCD), synching the various email accounts across several computers (Macs and PC's)?

You're missing the point. The iPhone, like most PDAs and phones now DOESN'T SYNC EMAIL. ie. it doesn't copy email off of your PC or Mac to the iPhone like the old Palm PDAs. It's a full on, connect to the internet, IMAP/POP3/SMTP loving fully signed up net citizen just like Apple Mail is on your Mac. It's actually pretty hard these days to find phones/pdas outside the dumb Palm and Windows world that actually sync data instead of just access it directly.

The easiest way to have your mail available on your phone is to connect via IMAP to your mail server. I've been able to do this for 4+ years with various Symbian phones like a P910i. Microsoft Exchange supports IMAP so the iPhone *IS* compatible with Exchange. The problem is, most Exchange techs do not switch on IMAP support.

Furthermore, IMAP IDLE is supported so it supports a form of 'push' email where the mail server will push any new mail out to the phone, just like a Blackberry. Most Nokia S60 and SE UIQ phones support IMAP IDLE too. Apple's OSX Server mail solution support IMAP IDLE. EXIM Mail transport on Linux supports IMAP IDLE. It's pretty ubiquitous now.

You still need to be able however to sync your address book, your calendar and your todos from your PC/Mac to the phone since those are not stored on a mail server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I do know the Feds are super slow in adopting stuff, are pretty much standardized on the MS Outlook/Office paradigm, and are supercautious WRT security issues. Inotherwords slow as molasses!

And this gets into the seemless-ease-of-use argument which I believe synching is supposed to offer. All I know is that Macs in a PC centric environment are an uphill battle, a go it yourself strategy, you really have to want to use a Mac, and most people I've met in these PC centric environments don't give the Mac a second thought. So it makes me wonder how successful the iPhone will be in the corporate world?

It depends on if the PC corporate types will move to internet based standards such as IMAP or stick with expensive MS products like Exchange and then pay over the odds for Blackberry Connect or ActiveSync when they could instead be using a free IMAP server with free push email. Sometimes I think IT Dept managers justify their existence based on how much money they can spend and how many staff they have. That kind of thinking is why they choose MS over other solutions.
post #57 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That could be a second-generation version. Frankly, I think the rest of the world is lucky in this regard. I hope Apple will take the complaints and improves the product. I think there is more for them to say too, the AppleTV is quite a bit more advanced than what they said about the preproduction version.

Yeah. I was watching the keynote and thinking it's going to be buggy as hell for a v1.0 product. The one plus point for the USA getting it 6 months before Europe is that at least we'll have had 6 months of test-patsies with fat American fingers working out the bugs in the software, scratching the coatings and dropping it on it's end. Apple may also have let 3rd party developers in by then too.

Still though, seriously, it needs a hardware upgrade before launch here. We'll be 6 months into HSUPA never mind HSDPA when it's released here.
post #58 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

You're missing the point. The iPhone, like most PDAs and phones now DOESN'T SYNC EMAIL. ie. it doesn't copy email off of your PC or Mac to the iPhone like the old Palm PDAs. It's a full on, connect to the internet, IMAP/POP3/SMTP loving fully signed up net citizen just like Apple Mail is on your Mac. It's actually pretty hard these days to find phones/pdas outside the dumb Palm and Windows world that actually sync data instead of just access it directly.

The easiest way to have your mail available on your phone is to connect via IMAP to your mail server. I've been able to do this for 4+ years with various Symbian phones like a P910i. Microsoft Exchange supports IMAP so the iPhone *IS* compatible with Exchange. The problem is, most Exchange techs do not switch on IMAP support.

Furthermore, IMAP IDLE is supported so it supports a form of 'push' email where the mail server will push any new mail out to the phone, just like a Blackberry. Most Nokia S60 and SE UIQ phones support IMAP IDLE too. Apple's OSX Server mail solution support IMAP IDLE. EXIM Mail transport on Linux supports IMAP IDLE. It's pretty ubiquitous now.

You still need to be able however to sync your address book, your calendar and your todos from your PC/Mac to the phone since those are not stored on a mail server.



It depends on if the PC corporate types will move to internet based standards such as IMAP or stick with expensive MS products like Exchange and then pay over the odds for Blackberry Connect or ActiveSync when they could instead be using a free IMAP server with free push email. Sometimes I think IT Dept managers justify their existence based on how much money they can spend and how many staff they have. That kind of thinking is why they choose MS over other solutions.

Really appreciate the clarification, thanks.
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post #59 of 87
I think the best quote from the Pogue article is

Quote:
Why is everyone missing the fact that this phone/device will seamlessly switch between Edge and Wi-Fi saving big $$$ on data rates? Because nobody bothers to post about what they LIKE. If Internetters cant say something disparaging, they say nothing at all.
post #60 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

I think the best quote from the Pogue article is

Eeeeeeexcellent. that is great! it's so true and is right up there with that saying of, "People who post and b*tch needlessly on the internet aren't exercising their freedom of speech. Their exercising their freedom from being punched in the mouth."
post #61 of 87
How sure are we about "not syncing wirelessly" includes Bluetooth? I just find it unbelievably...well, unbelievable that Apple wouldn't let you sync data (sans iTunes tracks) via Bluetooth like every other Bluetooth equipped phones out there. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Really.

I have a feeling that "no wireless syncing" means "no iTunes syncing wirelesslys" AND/OR "no syncing via 802.11b/g" and doesn't apply to Bluetooth syncing of data (address book, e-mail settings, etc.).
post #62 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by debohun View Post

First they take Newton off the market, don't open source it, and now they are intentionally handicapping the one thing that could easily be its successor. That's just irrational. If people want PDA functionality, handwriting data entry, etc., and are willing to pay extra for it, why not let them? Why does Apple think some people's biases against PDAs justifies driving willing Apple customers to other markets? That's not good business, that's obsessive control disorder.

Oh, calm down! Several times, both at the Keynote and in subsequent interviews, Jobs noted that there are more devices coming, and intimated more than once that a cell phone- less device is coming that will include much of this technology.

What makes you think that Apple will take 2 1/2 years to research this tech and then fail to use it in as many ways as possible to make money off of it?

I think it is obvious as hell that at least one more device line is coming - something like a PDA/iPod mix - perhaps the high end iPods will get more PDA functionality via the multi-touch technology, perhaps with wifi or bluetooth syncing.

Like he said lots of times last year as well as this: Hold onto yer hats, it's gonna be one hell of a ride!
post #63 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

I think the best quote from the Pogue article is

Quote:
Why is everyone missing the fact that this phone/device will seamlessly switch between Edge and Wi-Fi saving big $$$ on data rates? Because nobody bothers to post about what they LIKE. If Internetters cant say something disparaging, they say nothing at all.

All phones with wifi in that I've used do this already be it HTC, Nokia or SE.

Jobs also said it won't do VoIP. So it would seem it'll switch to wifi for net use, email etc but won't for voice, which is crap, but understandable if they don't support UMA and haven't got Skype, Gizmo or whatever on there already. We're already seeing combined UMA phones and services in Europe yet Apple won't even allow a VoIP client on their phone. So much for reinventing the telephone.
post #64 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrens View Post

Oh, calm down! Several times, both at the Keynote and in subsequent interviews, Jobs noted that there are more devices coming, and intimated more than once that a cell phone- less device is coming that will include much of this technology.

While I'm sure you're right about more devices coming, including the iPhone forming the basis of the next iPod, I don't think I've read anywhere that Jobs has stated that at all and he did not say so during the keynote either.
post #65 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

All phones with wifi in that I've used do this already be it HTC, Nokia or SE.

Jobs also said it won't do VoIP. So it would seem it'll switch to wifi for net use, email etc but won't for voice, which is crap, but understandable if they don't support UMA and haven't got Skype, Gizmo or whatever on there already. We're already seeing combined UMA phones and services in Europe yet Apple won't even allow a VoIP client on their phone. So much for reinventing the telephone.

As had been said many other places, the anology to the iPod introduction should be informing these discussions, and it isn't. Apple has almost never tried to compete on spec lists and features, but user experience, integration and ease of use. "iPod will fail at that price point", "iPod must have an FM radio or its nothing", "Voice recording on the iPod is absolutely necessary", etc. The same is/will be true for the iPhone. We won't know if it will succeed or not until its in the wild and real people can use the interface but its the interface, not the features, that will make this phone fly and will (if successful) reinvent the mobile phone/device. I would feel safe saying that anyone who says that current mobile phone software/interfaces are mature and usable is very much on the geek end of the tech scale (and that's not a bad thing ) This phone is NOT aimed at them.
post #66 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

While I'm sure you're right about more devices coming, including the iPhone forming the basis of the next iPod, I don't think I've read anywhere that Jobs has stated that at all and he did not say so during the keynote either.

If you had paid any attention at all in the last week after the keynote, Jobs or other senior execs have given several interviews to various journalists where they have said exactly that. CNBC had just such an interview later last Tuesday. In one, Jobs specifically referred to devices without phone functions, without divulging which devices he was referring to, of course, but noting the use of similar technology.

And of course, he didn't say so specifically during the keynote - he WAS talking about the iPhone then huh? But he did mention "other devices". In so many words.

It's been all over, maybe you should, like, actually READ stuff before spouting off.
post #67 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrens View Post

In one, Jobs specifically referred to devices without phone functions, without divulging which devices he was referring to, of course, but noting the use of similar technology.

Maybe you ought to provide some links to back up what you say then.
post #68 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The company has not decided on whether or not a user's existing music library can be used for ringtones.

This is the dealbreaker for me. If I can only get ringtones from rogers(I imagine will be the canadian provider) I'm completely uninterested.

There is no reason why on a music playing phone to have to buy ringtones from the cell provider.
I made my own ringtones for my pos Moto L2(don't laugh it was free and my ericson died on me) and transferred them by bluetooth and you're telling me I can't do that on apple's legendary iPhone.

f**k iPhone then.
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post #69 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

As had been said many other places, the anology to the iPod introduction should be informing these discussions, and it isn't. Apple has almost never tried to compete on spec lists and features, but user experience, integration and ease of use. "iPod will fail at that price point", "iPod must have an FM radio or its nothing", "Voice recording on the iPod is absolutely necessary", etc. The same is/will be true for the iPhone. We won't know if it will succeed or not until its in the wild and real people can use the interface but its the interface, not the features, that will make this phone fly and will (if successful) reinvent the mobile phone/device. I would feel safe saying that anyone who says that current mobile phone software/interfaces are mature and usable is very much on the geek end of the tech scale (and that's not a bad thing ) This phone is NOT aimed at them.

QFT.

It's the interface, it's the interface, it's the interface.

I made the rounds over the weekend to phone stores and checked out the latest and greatest smart phones, PDA phones, internet tablets, etc.

Horrifying. I can hardly believe that people are arguing that whatever Palm/Windows Mobile/Symbian thing they're carrying around makes the iPhone irrelevant. Yes, I know you have mastered the interface on your Blackberry and can type 110 words a minute on the thumb board.

Got news for you: the interfaces on these things are horrible. Even the Nokia 770, which has all kinds of room, has a cheap and crummy feeling interface. Not only that, but most of the devices themselves feel cheap and plasticy and crummy.

iPhone overpriced? We know for sure that it will look and feel top notch. We can see that the interface is a whole different order of usability compared to what's out there.

I think the big mistake is assuming at the price point the only market for the iPhone is people who already buy smart phones, i.e. business users, geeks and techophiles.

Looking at the offerings already out there, it's pretty clear why these things are limited to a particular demographic, and I don't think it's entirely about price.

What I think is going to happen is that people are going to walk into the Cingular or Apple store pretty sure that they would never in this world spend $500 on a phone, play with one, and suddenly realize that they will pay $500 for a phone-- the iPhone is going to radically expand the potential market for mobile communication devices.
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post #70 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What I think is going to happen is that people are going to walk into the Cingular or Apple store pretty sure that they would never in this world spend $500 on a phone, play with one, and suddenly realize that they will pay $500 for a phone-- the iPhone is going to radically expand the potential market for mobile communication devices.

The original iPod sold quite well for $400 with only 5GB HDD and a monochrome display, and the original iPod Photo (only two years ago) sold quite well at $500.

A higher price will surely drive away some people looking for a "killer deal", but will bring in many more looking for a "killer solution". Boom!
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post #71 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The original iPod sold quite well for $400 with only 5GB HDD and a monochrome display, and the original iPod Photo (only two years ago) sold quite well at $500. Boom!

Sigh.......\

Both are (sadly, but proudly) displayed on my bookshelf.

Did you have to remind me -- just when I am beginning to come to terms with the fact that another $500 will fly out of my wallet soon.........
post #72 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Maybe you ought to provide some links to back up what you say then.

I've been to dozens of websites in the last week, these interviews (or accounts of them) are not hard to find. Like I said, CNBC did a widely distributed interview with Jobs last Tuesday.

If you can't be bothered to look for yourself, then I won't do it for you. If you choose not to believe me, then, c'est la vie it's your loss for not knowing. Information is easy to find, and these interviews are not hidden or hard to find out about.

Besides, this issue if easy. Look at Apple's past history. They historically put out a new device; kind of "run it up the flagpole" and see what happens. It is rare for them to put out a new device with full functionality. They've got to leave some features for future releases, that is practically an industry standard in consumer electronics. You know, milk the customers for all they'll give?

I'm sorry, anybody that complains about one of Apple's first generation devices being feature scarce hasn't really looked at history, and doesn't understand marketing. The signs are there to see if only you're willing to look.
post #73 of 87
Apple lack of awareness regarding 3G and how Europeans, I mean it's only the biggest market economy after all and you can use 3G almost everywhere including in ex-communist states, using high-end pricey phones with 3G is pretty staggering.

And why would I want to be forced to buy rigtones and applications only from Apple or Cingular when my Nokia can use any regular MP3 and Symbian S60-based application just fine - WTF?
post #74 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioport View Post

Apple lack of awareness regarding 3G and how Europeans, I mean it's only the biggest market economy after all and you can use 3G almost everywhere including in ex-communist states, using high-end pricey phones with 3G is pretty staggering.

Do you know that the phone won't be rolling out to Europe until next year? 3G has been confirmed, all we know is that it probably won't be in the first model that will only be sold in the US. I would not be surprised if the model being sold in the EU will get 3G.
post #75 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioport View Post

Apple lack of awareness regarding 3G and how Europeans, I mean it's only the biggest market economy after all and you can use 3G almost everywhere including in ex-communist states, using high-end pricey phones with 3G is pretty staggering.

You making some very odd conclusions here. As JeffDM pointed out, the phone will have 3G tech by the time it his Europe. Jobs said this feature is coming during the keynote. Since Europe has wide coverage of HSDPA it makes since that it would be included in the non-US phones. However, there are some valid reason as to why this isn't being rolled out in the US right away.
  1. Cingular doesn't have significant HSDPA coverage. When they do, then Apple will release a new phone and get even more money from the early adopters.
  2. HSDPA comes at a cost. It uses significantly more battery life and processing resources than EDGE.
  3. Cingular's media network is already being jeopardized by the iPhone. They may have a contingency in their contract for Apple that prevent HSDPA from being added in the US for the first year (scenario).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ioport View Post

And why would I want to be forced to buy rigtones and applications only from Apple or Cingular when my Nokia can use any regular MP3 and Symbian S60-based application just fine - WTF?

There are many reasons why the iPhone is closed. The iPod is closed and that seems to do well. Since it does run a version of OS X, you may see there are many hacks for the it coming along.

As for ringtones, this isn't Apple's doing. Apple would rather you buy a song for song on the iTS for $.99 instead of paying $1.99 - $2.49 for a ringtone at Cingular. This is clearly Cingular trying to maintain one of its overly inflated services.

Come June, you may fine Cingular has special plans (especially data rates) for iPhone customers. Unless their contract with Apple specifically states otherwise, they will probably try to charge more to make up for there other loses of supplemental income and the revamping of their network that was required to get the iPhone contract in the first place (i:e: Visual Voicemail).
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post #76 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrens View Post

If you had paid any attention at all in the last week after the keynote, Jobs or other senior execs have given several interviews to various journalists where they have said exactly that.

Please cite, otherwise I'll just assume you're being shitty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrens View Post

CNBC had just such an interview later last Tuesday. In one, Jobs specifically referred to devices without phone functions, without divulging which devices he was referring to, of course, but noting the use of similar technology.

I'm in the UK so I'm not likely to have seen CNBC. I generally read Macworld, the various rumour sites, Daring Fireball (and the links from that to the NYTimes, WSJ and Time amongst others), Ars Technica, TUAW, Engadget and BBC News. None of which have mentioned any other devices. So, it's strange that the tech sites have all missed these mentions of other devices you say Apple have made. The BBC Click program I've just watched even went as far as pointing out that Apple had made NO mention of a widescreen iPod and interviewed Phil Schiller and people annoyed that Apple hadn't mentioned a new device - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ne/default.stm

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrens View Post

And of course, he didn't say so specifically during the keynote - he WAS talking about the iPhone then huh? But he did mention "other devices". In so many words.

'In so many words?' - ie. he didn't make any specific claims at all. He sure did mention 'other devices' but those were competitors other devices like a Treo or Blackberry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrens View Post

It's been all over, maybe you should, like, actually READ stuff before spouting off.

I have, I've read way too much this past week, and I've quite possibly not read everything still. It's been a media deluge but maybe I've been looking in the wrong places and so have all the journos that write the tech sites. If you can point me out to where Jobs, Schiller, Joswiak or whoever at Apple in any of the interviews they've given have mentioned other devices then please do. That's all I was asking.
post #77 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As JeffDM pointed out, the phone will have 3G tech by the time it his Europe.

Until it ships in Europe, nobody can actually be sure of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

HSDPA comes at a cost. It uses significantly more battery life and processing resources than EDGE.

I think this is overstated. 3G/HSDPA only consumes more power when you're actually using it. For the most part, 3G phones drop back into non-3G GSM mode when they aren't doing data. Where I live, I've marginal 3G coverage sometimes and my phone is always dropping in and out of 3G. I've even a hack to permanently set it to the slower non UMTS 3G speeds since it's actually quite annoying waiting for it to switch.

Even still, I didn't notice that much difference in power consumption between my 2.5G p910i and 3G p990 - both similar phones and simlarly specced to the iPhone. The p990 being better specced comms wise at least. Its possible the battery is bigger in the p990 of course to cope but I've not checked. Apple's obsession with making things uber-thin sometimes stops them from offering useful features - like 3G and a long replaceable battery life.

Aside from that, it's got WiFi built in. My p990 drained much quicker with WiFi enabled than running 3G. I think the power argument is a red herring thrown into the mix by Apple to compensate for the cock up of the missing 3G features. Designing things in California is maybe too insular.

I once had a chat with a product designer for bike shoes based in California who'd gone through 3 generations of 'Winter Boot' that had a terrible low-tread sole and no studs in it. His excuse was 'It's never muddy here'. I was tempted to send him a box of UK mud via FedEx and explain it's like that 9 months of the year in the UK and we wear winter boots in Spring and Autumn (sorry 'Fall') too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There are many reasons why the iPhone is closed. The iPod is closed and that seems to do well. Since it does run a version of OS X, you may see there are many hacks for the it coming along.

I'm sure there will be but if Apple has 'fixed' it so that only signed apps work on the iPhone like Symbian have done in SymbianOS9 then the propensity for 3rd parties to write software is much lessened even with a hack to get them on there. The iPod isn't a Smart Phone so isn't expected to have applications installed on it. Most people expect smart phones to have installable apps and geeks expect to be able to write software for them.

When Jobs mentioned Widgets, my first thought was 'Cool! I can port the Nabaztag widget over and send it messages from my phone'. I'll be thoroughly disappointed if I can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As for ringtones, this isn't Apple's doing. Apple would rather you buy a song for song on the iTS for $.99 instead of paying $1.99 - $2.49 for a ringtone at Cingular. This is clearly Cingular trying to maintain one of its overly inflated services.

Come June, you may fine Cingular has special plans (especially data rates) for iPhone customers. Unless their contract with Apple specifically states otherwise, they will probably try to charge more to make up for there other loses of supplemental income and the revamping of their network that was required to get the iPhone contract in the first place (i:e: Visual Voicemail).

So much for "Apple being Apple and Cingular being Cingular". It would seem they're already tripping over each other. Of course, this is complete nonsense here in Europe and I hope Apple have more room to be Apple when they aren't tied to typical US carrier behaviour.
post #78 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Please cite, otherwise I'll just assume you're being shitty.

Sorry, assume what you wish.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

I'm in the UK so I'm not likely to have seen CNBC. I generally read Macworld, the various rumour sites, Daring Fireball (and the links from that to the NYTimes, WSJ and Time amongst others), Ars Technica, TUAW, Engadget and BBC News. None of which have mentioned any other devices. So, it's strange that the tech sites have all missed these mentions of other devices you say Apple have made. The BBC Click program I've just watched even went as far as pointing out that Apple had made NO mention of a widescreen iPod and interviewed Phil Schiller and people annoyed that Apple hadn't mentioned a new device - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ne/default.stm

You don't have to see it on TV. The interview was streamed from several sites, including YouTube.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

'In so many words?' - ie. he didn't make any specific claims at all. He sure did mention 'other devices' but those were competitors other devices like a Treo or Blackberry.

Sure he did, you just didn't listen. He didn't mention specific devices. since when has Apple done that, anyway? I said "in so many words", and I mean just that he said they would be releasing other devices just as cool as iPhone - extrapolate from that what you will.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

I have, I've read way too much this past week, and I've quite possibly not read everything still. It's been a media deluge but maybe I've been looking in the wrong places and so have all the journos that write the tech sites. If you can point me out to where Jobs, Schiller, Joswiak or whoever at Apple in any of the interviews they've given have mentioned other devices then please do. That's all I was asking.

Sorry, you should go to such places as MacWorld, or World of Apple, or MacObserver, or MacDailyNews, or MacRumors, The Apple Blog, Looprumors, or any of a dozen other Mac centric sites. Look back in their entries from last week, and you'll see mention of those interviews. Job's comments have been talked about, picked apart and analyzed in hundreds of thousands of words.

Like I said, I don't care if you don't believe me or not. It's not my problem, and you can call me shitty, stinky, or any other crappy name you wish. I've read it, and I've given good reasons why it makes sense anyway, so go look for it if you are really curious. If you don't, you aren't really interested in learning anything, you're just blowing smoke.
post #79 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrens View Post

Sorry, assume what you wish.

You make claims that no on else has heard and then call people names for not locating these "easily" found news articles themselves. You don't sound credible if you can't back these claims up. Luckily, you have an entire database of databases ready to help you search for whatever you want.

It's logical to assume that this touchscreen technology will be introduced to the next iPod Video. After all, we've all seen the fake iPod Video pics long before the fake iPhone pics came around.
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post #80 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrens View Post

If you can't be bothered to look for yourself, then I won't do it for you. If you choose not to believe me, then, c'est la vie it's your loss for not knowing. Information is easy to find, and these interviews are not hidden or hard to find out about.

Haha.
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