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Balmer discussed iPhone...he is right...frighteningly so

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
Steve Balmer (the guy who acctually runs MS, Billy G hasn't for years) gave an interview about the iPhone to CNBC and made a great point...it is the most expensive phone in the market, and, it isn't in any serious way aimed at business men, the only ones who spend $$$$$ on a handset outside of a few geeks.

Watch it and discuss
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post #2 of 48
Not to mention, that ALL of those folks who might be in line to purchase this phone, may not if they live in any of these states

"Customers in several states WILL NOT be able to take advantage of Apple's new iPhone, because of lack of a network offered by the carrier -AT&T's Cingular Wireless



Alaska
Colorado
North Dakaota
South Dakota
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Minnesota
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hamphire
upstate New York
Oregon
Utah
Vermont and
Wyoming among other states!

Now these may seem like small states, or not that big of a deal to some folks, but I don't see how this can possiblie be the best way to announcing a new product. Maybe this is why Steve Jobs has said they hope to sell only 10,000,000 the contract / service doesn't offer the service to the other 30 + million buyers out there?

If, (and he had to know the coverage that is available) Steve knew this, maybe he should have had an special announcement / SelectMacExpo / just for those folks who are going to be able to enjoy, purchase and use this new phone.

Sure seems short sighted of Apple / Mr. Jobs, and a great job (but a bad one as well) - by AT&T to be the only source for the iPhone at this time.

If (and I suspect it will) - this issue comes to the for-front, I can't see Apple not adding carrieers ASAP - they can't afford the bad press they get enough of that already.

And what about that special ad for the SuperBowl? Let's hope it isn't for the iPhone (and is for the Beatles & iTunes) - as it WOULD be a hugh waste of money to tell so many folks about something, they can't use.

Skip
post #3 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

Maybe this is why Steve Jobs has said they hope to sell only 10,000,000 the contract / service doesn't offer the service to the other 30 + million buyers out there?

There will be 3-400 million potential buyers in Europe.
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #4 of 48
Ballmer has a good point: currently millions of phones are sold with MS software. Many of those phones have most of and even more features than the iPhone.

BUT...

Are they beautiful? Are they elegant? Has the UI been scrutinized to reduce the number of clicks to do common functions. How many of those MS running phones are locked down by the carriers? Or the features are tightly tied into a revenue stream for the carrier making the features a pain to use?

Ballmer gave a feature list comparison. Jobs offers a user experience comparison.

A few quotes from a review of the Q phone Ballmer mentioned I pulled up from Google:
"discomfort is caused by the angular edges and a large ridge designed to protect the scroll wheel. The width of the phone forces you to grip it a bit more tightly and really dig in to these hard edges."

"No matter how much we used the Q, we never were able to type accurately with the keyboard for more than a few words at a time."

"The keyboard layout leaves much to be desired. Other than letter keys, nothing is where you expect it to be"

"As a warning it is very easy to activate the speakerphone mode, even when not in a call by pressing the voice dial key for a second. This can easily happen in your pocket without you knowing and can cause a bit of shock and a great deal of discomfort if you hold the phone up to your ear in this mode."

"The home screen of the Q is packed with so much data by default that you actually have to scroll down to see it all. However there is no scroll bar, arrow or any other sign to indicate you can or should scroll down to see more."

"The new message window begins with addressing the message, which is far more difficult than on the Pocket PC. Typing a name into the address field does not accomplish anything, it is not matched with the contact list. Instead you have to press select on the D-pad to be taken to the contact list, where typing a name will filter the entries. Pressing select again will add a recipient to your message. Entering the beginning of a phone number or email address instead of a name in the address field in hopes of the Q auto-completing the address does not work either."

"Unfortunately no relevant information about the shot you are taking is displayed, so it is difficult to know what the camera is capable of and what your current settings are. "

The review also had a number of nice things to say about the phone, and I'm sure the iPhone will have issues; but this is the example Ballmer pulled out of his hat to compare with the iPhone, I believe a few of those concerns above were directly addressed by Steve J. in the keynote.

- Jasen.
post #5 of 48
its not even here yet, i don't get the comparisons or downplay. until it's in a reviewers filthy little hands with 'insert cell provider here', i don't think it merits discussion beyond the stated functionality. i think you need a shipping product to compare to the Q or any other model, things change greatly in a few months.

that said, Ballmer is a genius, genius, genius! (throws chair).
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post #6 of 48
Who cares what Balmer thinks? Balmer will do every thing he can to limit iPhone sales while at the same time working to develope someting else for MS to sell. Why doesn't he critique all the holes in Internet Explorer? Oh because that might cost him money, not someone else. Next time, pick a reviewer who doesn't stand to profit from his negative assessment. He's just a retard. How many people had expensive portable music system's before iPods? iPhone is the same way. The fact that right now only business men use expensive phones doesn't mean it has to be that way. And Balmer knows it as much as anyone else.


You have to remember the MS business model. Wait until someone else comes up with a great product, and then build an inferior product, you can sell at the close to the same price by selling something to the millions of microsft worshippers who will never comparison shop anything. Balmer hates Apple, because they never sell their profitable stuff, to Microsoft, and unlike a lot of smaller companies they have the resources sue his ass if he just rips them off.
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post #7 of 48
You guys are quoting Balmer as a credible source on the potential of the iPhone. He only knows what we know and we all know what Steve wants us to know for right now.
post #8 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

A few quotes from a review of the Q phone Ballmer mentioned . . .

Two of my friends have the Q. It's actually pretty cool, but they both mention how quickly it kills the battery. Even with the extended battery pack it doesn't last for longer than two days without a charge. With the standard size pack -- the one that makes the Q roughly the same size as the iPhone -- the Q doesn't even last a day. For Apple to be able to announce 5 hours of video playback, they have done a very good job cramming in batteries.

And yes, both of them have Verizon and live and work in high signal strength areas. (all CDMA standards I'm aware of reduce output signal strength dynamically when reception is strong). So the battery drain is very severe on the Q. My two year old el cheapo LG (on Sprint) goes for four to seven days without the need for charging.
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post #9 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

it is the most expensive phone in the market

No, it's not. Is there any point to watching the video, considering that one of his main points is completely incorrect?
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post #10 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post

No, it's not. Is there any point to watching the video, considering that one of his main points is completely incorrect?

Exactly. I can't believe the number of morons who laugh at it being a $500 phone. It's a SMARTPHONE. In that market there are loads of devices at that price, a lot of them higher. The GPS ones go up to $800-900.
post #11 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Steve Balmer (the guy who acctually runs MS, Billy G hasn't for years) gave an interview about the iPhone to CNBC and made a great point...it is the most expensive phone in the market, and, it isn't in any serious way aimed at business men, the only ones who spend $$$$$ on a handset outside of a few geeks.

Watch it and discuss

I watched...

1) It's not the most expensive phone in the market, and it goes for about the same price as a phone and an iPod, which people buying anyways even though say... the Motorola Q or the Blackberry Pearl, in the words of Ballmer... "...does email, does music..."

There is currently an article on AI about one Chicago reporter who said that he typed faster on the iPhone's Keyboard then on any other Phone. Those "smartphones" may do Music, but nowhere near as well as an iPod.

2) In the same interview, he said that the Zune "took about 25%, 20% of the market"
You are using Ballmer, as a credible source?

Now you see that link in my Signature that says "Best Article Ever!"
Click it and read it.

Sebastian
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post #12 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

Not to mention, that ALL of those folks who might be in line to purchase this phone, may not if they live in any of these states

"Customers in several states WILL NOT be able to take advantage of Apple's new iPhone, because of lack of a network offered by the carrier -AT&T's Cingular Wireless



Alaska
Colorado
North Dakaota
South Dakota
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Minnesota
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hamphire
upstate New York
Oregon
Utah
Vermont and
Wyoming among other states!

Now these may seem like small states, or not that big of a deal to some folks, but I don't see how this can possiblie be the best way to announcing a new product. Maybe this is why Steve Jobs has said they hope to sell only 10,000,000 the contract / service doesn't offer the service to the other 30 + million buyers out there?

If, (and he had to know the coverage that is available) Steve knew this, maybe he should have had an special announcement / SelectMacExpo / just for those folks who are going to be able to enjoy, purchase and use this new phone.

Sure seems short sighted of Apple / Mr. Jobs, and a great job (but a bad one as well) - by AT&T to be the only source for the iPhone at this time.

If (and I suspect it will) - this issue comes to the for-front, I can't see Apple not adding carrieers ASAP - they can't afford the bad press they get enough of that already.

And what about that special ad for the SuperBowl? Let's hope it isn't for the iPhone (and is for the Beatles & iTunes) - as it WOULD be a hugh waste of money to tell so many folks about something, they can't use.

Skip

Why more FUD??? Seems like there's cingular coverage in all those state.

post #13 of 48


a_greer, go to your room. No ice cream for you.
post #14 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Why more FUD??? Seems like there's cingular coverage in all those state.

As a resident of one of those states (Montana), I've been looking into it a bit, and it's not clear if all those areas in orange will be able to buy the iphone. Many of those areas are covered by Cingular "partners" and from what I've read, therefore might not be able to buy the iPhone.
post #15 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

As a resident of one of those states (Montana), I've been looking into it a bit, and it's not clear if all those areas in orange will be able to buy the iphone. Many of those areas are covered by Cingular "partners" and from what I've read, therefore might not be able to buy the iPhone.

Either way, the list was inaccurate and accurate at the same time, also known as being misleading.

There are areas in about every state that Cingular doesn't cover, however, Cingular has coverage in just about every state.

Sebastian
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post #16 of 48
if Ballmer is so smart....

...why didnt they sell more Zunes?

would i take advice from that man?

NO
post #17 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Ballmer has a good point: currently millions of phones are sold with MS software. Many of those phones have most of and even more features than the iPhone.

BUT...

Are they beautiful? Are they elegant? Has the UI been scrutinized to reduce the number of clicks to do common functions. How many of those MS running phones are locked down by the carriers? Or the features are tightly tied into a revenue stream for the carrier making the features a pain to use?

Ballmer gave a feature list comparison. Jobs offers a user experience comparison.

Agreed, but bear in mind that ease of use and such matters exactly -0- too corporate or even small business markets if they can not, in a native way, get push e-mail from a private server on a private company domain (what would you think if your dr or lawyer or investment banker started e-mailing you from yahoo, would you take him seriously?), also, the ability to look at spreadsheets, word docs and so on,

And MS has the 800LB gorilla locked up... biggie, use all of the features of outlook with an exchange 2003 backend from anywhere in the world.


Apple is banking on a consumer market, a market that already carry ipods, have phone contracts, and, most importantly cant justify spending $$$ on a mobile communicator as easy as a business...and the push e-mail thing: it is useless to me as a consumer if I cant use my gMail accounts with it, and what about all of the bloggers/web site enthusiasts that want (them@theirsite.com) pushed... Also, no downloading of content via wifi SUCKS...What if I am on the road and want to get the latest Diggnation or TWIT, or some new music at the coffee shop?
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post #18 of 48
People who can only crunch numbers are just too dense to understand "innovation". These people do not have the capacity to envision a good product/idea, let alone judge one. The Mac, the iMac, the iPod, to these people, each and every one of these where doomed to fail. Yet, the innovations that these products introduced into the market are all the standard today. I recall Bill Gates saying something to the effect that no one would ever want to use a mouse and drop down menus because it was just to slow an UI. Well, why didn't he stick to his blind vision? One can say that Windows lives because the Mac was born. The iMac revolutionized computer design. Most of the MP3 players today are trying to be like the iPod.

The iPhone is years ahead of anything we now have. And if Apple hadn't done it, cell phones would have continued to be as they are now.

Get a clue and give credit where credit is due Mr. Balmer and company.
post #19 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


The iPhone is years ahead of anything we now have. And if Apple hadn't done it, cell phones would have continued to be as they are now.

Kind of like a race car, years ahead of its time, just not too usefull as it isnt street legal...
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post #20 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Exactly. I can't believe the number of morons who laugh at it being a $500 phone. It's a SMARTPHONE. In that market there are loads of devices at that price, a lot of them higher. The GPS ones go up to $800-900.

Unlocked maybe...surely not $500+ AFTER contract discount...Cingulars MOST expensive handset is $549 BEFORE contract, and the Treo 750 (VZW only at the moment) is aprox $699 before contract...
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post #21 of 48
The iPhone is very aesthetically pleasing, but $500 for a phone with 5 hours of battery life, an easily scratchable surface, and Cingular only is kind of...disapointing. I was in awe for the first couple days after the announcement, but then I came to a realization. Balmer is right about the price--you can get phones that have much longer battery life and are much more durable for less price.


I say "no thank you" to the iPhone. A very good start though.
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post #22 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonndailey View Post

The iPhone is very aesthetically pleasing, but $500 for a phone with 5 hours of battery life, an easily scratchable surface, and Cingular only is kind of...disapointing. I was in awe for the first couple days after the announcement, but then I came to a realization. Balmer is right about the price--you can get phones that have much longer battery life and are much more durable for less price.


I say "no thank you" to the iPhone. A very good start though.

Steve Jobs said that the 5 hour time is for playing video or listentening to music.

Where'd you hear about the surface scratching?

How can you debate the durability of the iPhone when it's not even shipping?


Not at one time during the keynote did Steve Jobs say the iPhone is aimed at the biz sector.
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post #23 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Steve Jobs said that the 5 hour time is for playing video or listentening to music.

Where'd you hear about the surface scratching?

How can you debate the durability of the iPhone when it's not even shipping?


Not at one time during the keynote did Steve Jobs say the iPhone is aimed at the biz sector.

Did he say there would be separate batteries? No. So when you're done watching full length movies on your phone, have fun making calls afterward.

If anyone is serious about making calls, they won't use the iPod functionality much. I wouldn't want to risk not being able to make a call because I was in the mood to listen to every Beatles song I owned.


btw, he said that it was 16 hours for listening to music, 5 hours for video and phone.
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post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonndailey View Post

The iPhone is very aesthetically pleasing, but $500 for a phone with 5 hours of battery life, an easily scratchable surface, and Cingular only is kind of...disapointing. I was in awe for the first couple days after the announcement, but then I came to a realization. Balmer is right about the price--you can get phones that have much longer battery life and are much more durable for less price.


I say "no thank you" to the iPhone. A very good start though.

But you can't get a phone and a Video iPod for the same price with that battery and size footprint.

The easily scratchable surface comment tone make you look altogether too much like a fanboy troll on your very first post, nobody knows how scratchable it is, let alone whether it is any more scratchable than any other phone out there. Now go look at battery life on smartphones. VERY VERY few have better battery times and they are in the same cost stratum. Apple has never been about being the first at anything, just so damn radically better that what came before gets thrown out. Same basic idea here.
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post #25 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

But you can't get a phone and a Video iPod for the same price with that battery and size footprint.

The easily scratchable surface comment tone make you look altogether too much like a fanboy troll on your very first post. Now go look at battery life on smartphones. VERY VERY few have better battery times and they are in the same cost stratum. Apple has never been about being the first at anything, just so damn radically better that what came before gets thrown out. Same basic idea here.


If not scratchable, (which it looks to be) it'll be very easily smudged. Mr. Jobs himself smudged the screen during the keynote, and when you flaunt one of it's best features (and the key to using the phone) as its screen, it defeats the purpose somewhat. 5 hours may be acceptable to a lot of people, but when you factor in that it only has one battery, that time will be reduced greatly because of every other feature the phone offers (if you decide to use those features).
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post #26 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonndailey View Post

If not scratchable, (which it looks to be) it'll be very easily smudged. Mr. Jobs himself smudged the screen during the keynote, and when you flaunt one of it's best features (and the key to using the phone) as its screen, it defeats the purpose somewhat. 5 hours may be acceptable to a lot of people, but when you factor in that it only has one battery, that time will be reduced greatly because of every other feature the phone offers (if you decide to use those features).

5 hours MAY be acceptable?

That's pretty much where phones top out, so if you find that UNacceptable, you might have to invest in a fleet of say, carrier pigeons.
post #27 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

5 hours MAY be acceptable?

That's pretty much where phones top out, so if you find that UNacceptable, you might have to invest in a fleet of say, carrier pigeons.

haha. Yeah, you're right. I stand corrected on that part of the argument.
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post #28 of 48
ya whoever posted this and people that beleive him are obviously the ones that buy every product that is "As Seen On TV!!"....horrible business people

balmers point is to take away as many potential buyers, called brainwashing them back into MS, maybe steve did the same thing to the potential buyers, but it is a new product and he isnt losing anything by doing this....

balmer just wants to take business away from the attacker, like any other company, its a rivalry war and its not going to stop so stick your in in a trashcan and use your brains to think what is right for yourself, and hold up a second, the product isnt out for 6 months theres tons of information and programs they can add, so stop the hyphy about everything and lets wait
post #29 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Apple is banking on a consumer market, a market that already carry ipods, have phone contracts, and, most importantly cant justify spending $$$ on a mobile communicator as easy as a business...and the push e-mail thing: it is useless to me as a consumer if I cant use my gMail accounts with it, and what about all of the bloggers/web site enthusiasts that want (them@theirsite.com) pushed... Also, no downloading of content via wifi SUCKS...What if I am on the road and want to get the latest Diggnation or TWIT, or some new music at the coffee shop?

Haha, you won't get Push IMAP, but the iPhone supports POP3. I just wish Gmail would finally embrace IMAP though... if not I may just drop them -_-

In order to download content, the iPhone would also have to manage content, in order to manage content, it would have to have a way of sorting them into Libraries, Playlists, etc. iTunes does it all for the phone so it makes absolutely no sense to give it WiFi downloads.

Fear not, there is a solution, this wonderful invention called the Laptop/Notebook that allows you to *gasp* carry around an entire computer with you AND download Podcasts or other content Via WiFi

Sebastian
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post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Kind of like a race car, years ahead of its time, just not too usefull as it isnt street legal...

No, kinda like an iPod/Cell-Phone/e-mail/web/maps/digital camera/movie player in your pocket with an easy to use UI. But all things are subjective to one's viewpoint.
post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post

People who can only crunch numbers are just too dense to understand "innovation". These people do not have the capacity to envision a good product/idea, let alone judge one. The Mac, the iMac, the iPod, to these people, each and every one of these where doomed to fail. Yet, the innovations that these products introduced into the market are all the standard today. I recall Bill Gates saying something to the effect that no one would ever want to use a mouse and drop down menus because it was just to slow an UI. Well, why didn't he stick to his blind vision? One can say that Windows lives because the Mac was born. The iMac revolutionized computer design. Most of the MP3 players today are trying to be like the iPod.

The iPhone is years ahead of anything we now have. And if Apple hadn't done it, cell phones would have continued to be as they are now.

Get a clue and give credit where credit is due Mr. Balmer and company.

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Do not be afraid of the Darkness, after all, when watching the Commercial for the First version of Windows on Youtube (afraid to link due to Copyright crap) it's very very hard to be afraid of the enemy.

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post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonndailey View Post

Did he say there would be separate batteries? No. So when you're done watching full length movies on your phone, have fun making calls afterward.

If anyone is serious about making calls, they won't use the iPod functionality much. I wouldn't want to risk not being able to make a call because I was in the mood to listen to every Beatles song I owned.


btw, he said that it was 16 hours for listening to music, 5 hours for video and phone.

5 hours for Video and Talk Time.

Surely you have no reason to watch a full length Movie on the iPhone though, I mean, obviously you can, but it's much more realistic to use it for say, that short Video Podcast (Macbreak) or a quick Episode of whatever TV Show you might have lurking about.

The iPhone will be able to get through the day, obviously not if you're using it as an iPod all the time, but it's fine for that trip on the Bus, or the Train, or to wherever you might be going, and still have plenty of time to talk unless you actually do talk 5 hours or more on the phone every day.

Sebastian
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post #33 of 48
You know

I'm probably going to the the 1st generation iPhone. Not because I'm some Jobs fanatic that buys whatever he pushes but because for a 1st gen product from a company that has never made a phone before the iPhone simply looks amazing.

Smartphones can be had that offer more bullet points but the thing Apple is truly trying to address here is a smartphone that is actually "smart"

I know people that have Treos that don't do anything special with them because they have given up on the UI. Apple's goal her is to start off small..don't overwhelm people and let the product evolve to meet people's needs.

If I get a smart phone I want to use all of its features. I want it to be a focal point of my Digital Lifestyle. I'm not concerned with playing movies personally. I'd like a little music, a lot of organization and excellent phone functionality.

Hell if this is what Apple can offer with its first try let me get on the ground level because by the 3rd generation Apple will be out of sight.
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #34 of 48
Some buisness people will want to use it - what do these people do with their phones?

Email
Callender
View docs
Internet
Calls

iPhone does all thees, and better by the looks of it than any of the smartphones that I have owned.

I am part business & part consumer & will definately get one....the 10m sales target is the international one & if there is enough supply I think this is entirely reachable - I know lots of non-Mac users in the UK who want one & will pay for that privilege.....
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Unlocked maybe...surely not $500+ AFTER contract discount...Cingulars MOST expensive handset is $549 BEFORE contract, and the Treo 750 (VZW only at the moment) is aprox $699 before contract...

But you said (and Ballmer said) "on the market" and not "on Cingular". It is NOT the most expensive phone on the market, making both of you... how shall I say it... WRONG.

Of course Steve Jobs said the iPhone was the thinnest phone on the market, which was equally inaccurate.
post #36 of 48
Actually, however, I think Steve made a huge mistake by releasing this in the US first. People in Europe and Asia spend $$$$$$ on phones, even when they are jobless. The cell phone industry is just not the same in the US.
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonndailey View Post

Did he say there would be separate batteries? No. So when you're done watching full length movies on your phone, have fun making calls afterward.

I'm sure Jobs said it would have two batteries:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...etails_emerge/
http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.c...-thoughts.html
post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Of course Steve Jobs said the iPhone was the thinnest phone on the market, which was equally inaccurate.

He said it was the thinnest smartphone.....
post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonndailey View Post

btw, he said that it was 16 hours for listening to music, 5 hours for video and phone.

First off, there's a thing called a battery meter.

Second off, running the audio decoder is probably about as intense as running the cellular baseband. With modern silicon, this is not much of a drain. The big drain comes from the radio (phone/Wifi) or the backlight (video). As long as the backlight is off, you can expect the iPhone to last quite a while. This probably means several days of charge when used as a phone with occasional iPod usage.
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post #40 of 48
After all that Balmer dance craze... I've never been able to take him seriously. He could be the next President, the next Pope, or Jesus re-incarnate and I'd still snicker every time he walks by.
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
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I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
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