or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Briefly: 802.11n fee, Jobs' mansion woes, Apple targets British firm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Briefly: 802.11n fee, Jobs' mansion woes, Apple targets British firm

post #1 of 69
Thread Starter 
Apple has lowered the price of entry for recent Intel Mac owners who want 802.11n access. At the same time, Steve Jobs' initially approved demolition of a classic home has been denied. And yet another device maker has suffered the wrath of Apple's legal team over alleged trademark misuse.

Apple confirms, lowers 802.11n Enabler fee

Apple tonight confirmed a circulating story that it would charge owners of recent Airport-equipped Macs for a patch that will enable 802.11n wireless in Mac OS X. The company, however, appears to have changed its mind about the privately documented $4.99 fee following customer reaction and will now plans to charge just $1.99

Apple spokeswoman Lynn Fox additionally confirmed that the Sarbannes-Oxley Act was largely to blame for the fee. The law's provisions require that companies charge for significant features added to already-purchased products, Fox said.

Speculation about retroactive updates to the faster Wi-Fi standard arose when dissections of the MacBook Pro and other computers released since August revealed hidden 802.11n support in their chipsets.

Jobs denied demolition rights

In a surprising turn of events, local authorities last week revoked the permit initially granted to Apple chief exeuctive Steve Jobs that would have let him demolish a decaying mansion on his property.

The First District Court of Appeal in San Francisco overturned a previous decision that was to have seen the Jackling estate -- which Jobs infamously characterized as an "abomination" -- razed in favor of building a new, smaller home.

In explaining its decision, the court claimed that Jobs had not shown proof that it would be unfeasible to bring the 1926 building back to its former glory, drawing in part on the arguments made by a preservation group named Uphold Our Heritage.

Although the permit had been granted dating back 2001, just a year after Jobs moved out of the property, UOH successfully blocked the demolition last January when presiding Judge Marie Weiner agreed with the group's argument that Jobs had not proven restoring the house was beyond his means.

British firm in hotseat for alleged iPod trademark violation

Apple is continuing to squeeze companies it believes are treading on its coveted iPod trademark, AppleInsider has learned. A young British company named Securipod Ltd. said on Thursday that it received a Cease and Desist letter from the Cupertino firm, claiming that the inclusion of "ipod" in its name might create confusion.

The Watford, UK-based startup flatly rejected the notion, saying that its upcoming first product had very little to do with Apple's signature music device and that the legal action was ironic given Apple's current lawsuit troubles. "[Our] directors are bemused as to how a biometric wallet could be confused with an iPod MP3 player, but an Apple iPhone could not be confused with a Cisco iPhone," Securipod said in a statement.

Though the fledgling company still hopes for a June release of its wallet, named Biouno, design and marketing manager Mark Watson observed that Apple's flippant attitude towards trademarks was potentially ruinous for smaller companies. "The 'silly tiff' [of a trademark dispute] as referred to by Apple can cost businesses tens of thousands of pounds in legal fees to fight for the right to protect their names," he said.
post #2 of 69
How is this article dated for Friday? I live on the East coast and it's only 8:30 here. Are you guys located in England???
post #3 of 69
I wonder if Uphold Our Heritage has any connection to Greenpeace?
post #4 of 69
Quote:
Although the permit had been granted dating back 2001, just a year after Jobs moved out of the property, UOH successfully blocked the demolition last January when presiding Judge Marie Weiner agreed with the group's argument that Jobs had not proven restoring the house was beyond his means.

That bugs me. Where do they get the right to tell Jobs that he has to restore a house that he doesn't want just because it's old? That's just stupid.
post #5 of 69
Red Tape Karma gonna get you... Steve's company sends out legal red tape to stop some startup from using and ipodish name... but what goes around comes around... Steve's house stopped by "heritage" red tape, and a stupid 802.11n fee assessed due to accounting red tape. It's Red Tape Karma.
post #6 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaPeaJay View Post

That bugs me. Where do they get the right to tell Jobs that he has to restore a house that he doesn't want just because it's old? That's just stupid.

If it is a historic house, he must preserve it.
post #7 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Apple spokeswoman Lynn Fox additionally confirmed that the Sarbannes-Oxley Act was largely to blame for the fee. The law's provisions require that companies charge for significant features added to already-purchased products, Fox said.

Speculation about retroactive updates to the faster Wi-Fi standard arose when dissections of the MacBook Pro and other computers released since August revealed hidden 802.11n support in their chipsets.

Will someone please explain to me why applying a software patch to a piece of already included hardware just to enable a function that it was capable of when it was purchased is any different than me downloading the latest OS X.4.48 that makes the widgets on my destop do something new and better than what it did when I first paid for it? I am clearly getting a better OS experience without having to pay for it. Are we introuble and will never see another free update again?
post #8 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts View Post

Will someone please explain to me why applying a software patch to a piece of already included hardware just to enable a function that it was capable of when it was purchased is any different than me downloading the latest OS X.4.48 that makes the widgets on my destop do something new and better than what it did when I first paid for it?

Yes:

Apple did not advertise or make public in any way that the Apple hardware you were buying contained 802.11n-capable wireless, let alone imply that the feature may be enabled in the future. They advertised and sold to you a 802.11g-enabled computer - you got exactly what Apple said you would get.

Moving from 802.11g to 802.11n is a significant upgrade, Apple have never provided a similar significant upgrade in a 10.x.y update.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
Reply
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
Reply
post #9 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Yes:

Apple did not advertise or make public in any way that the Apple hardware you were buying contained 802.11n-capable wireless, let alone imply that the feature may be enabled in the future. They advertised and sold to you a 802.11g-enabled computer - you got exactly what Apple said you would get.

Moving from 802.11g to 802.11n is a significant upgrade, Apple have never provided a similar significant upgrade in a 10.x.y update.

Ok, the OS was just an example and I can't disprove your really generic 'never a significant up grade in a 10.x.y' statement as 'significant upgrade' is highly subjective.

Did not apple have the two fingered track pads in some early PowerBooks only to later enable them with an os upgrade? This is a significant change in the behavior of my trackpad, yet no money was charged for it. Why this time?

And more to my point, what is to stop Apple from now charging $4.99 for each System Update for the percieved 'significance' of the patch?
post #10 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts View Post

Ok, the OS was just an example and I can't disprove your really generic 'never a significant up grade in a 10.x.y' statement as 'significant upgrade' is highly subjective.

Did not apple have the two fingered track pads in some early PowerBooks only to later enable them with an os upgrade? This is a significant change in the behavior of my trackpad, yet no money was charged for it. Why this time?

And more to my point, what is to stop Apple from now charging $4.99 for each System Update for the percieved 'significance' of the patch?

According to MacWorld.com, the fee is--at least partially--used to pay for royalties of using an 802.11n device. I'm sure more info is to come.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #11 of 69
Quote:
Apple spokeswoman Lynn Fox additionally confirmed that the Sarbannes-Oxley Act was largely to blame for the fee. The law's provisions require that companies charge for significant features added to already-purchased products, Fox said.

'Cause we all know that Apple would never be greedy!
post #12 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A young British company named Securipod Ltd.

Bah! they can just add another 'o' to their name. It would go well with the typical storage location of their product.
A Conclusion is the place where you get tired of thinking. - Lesicus Stupidicus
Reply
A Conclusion is the place where you get tired of thinking. - Lesicus Stupidicus
Reply
post #13 of 69
I have seen and applied mainboard firmware updates that give us more features, like the ability to use the hyper threading that was built into the CPU, new driver+firmware combos that improve the speed and efficacy of onboard graphics and such...and intel and the mainboard makers give them away...is that illegal???
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #14 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelix View Post

If it is a historic house, he must preserve it.

Says who? It's an f-ing building, not a person.
I always have the right answers; you just sometimes ask the wrong questions.
Reply
I always have the right answers; you just sometimes ask the wrong questions.
Reply
post #15 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by damiansipko View Post

Says who? It's an f-ing building, not a person.

Three words: court of law
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #16 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

How is this article dated for Friday? I live on the East coast and it's only 8:30 here. Are you guys located in England???

Backdating and Forwarddating is all the rage these days 8)
post #17 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm16601 View Post

I wonder if Uphold Our Heritage has any connection to Greenpeace?

Heh. The Environment conservationists are very different from the older, quilt-making, nosy geriatrics crowd that comprises the SuburbanHeritage conservationists. Gotta give those old people something to whine about... ...I *am* a bit divided on the issue though, the heritage conservationists show recent pictures of the house and it looks like ass. I don't think Steve is living in it, he bought it and it's been sitting around for years, I reckon... (mainly because he was trying to demolish it and ran into years and years of red tape???)
post #18 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts View Post


Did not apple have the two fingered track pads in some early PowerBooks only to later enable them with an os upgrade? This is a significant change in the behavior of my trackpad, yet no money was charged for it. Why this time?

I don't remember this, which OS upgrade was this? I mean, I do know that certain PowerBooks (like my PowerBook 12" I had before my MacBook) shipped with a trackpad that could do that and later I was able to apply a third-party patch (or was it a modification to the OF?) that let me utilize it. BUT, I don't remember Apple officially giving us a solution to this.


Quote:
And more to my point, what is to stop Apple from now charging $4.99 for each System Update for the percieved 'significance' of the patch?


Umm, isn't that what an OS upgrade is? I mean, we're talking $129 instead of $5, but it's the same idea. So basically, it's just like bitching about Leopard costing $129, because all Leopard does is "enhance the hardware that is already there".

In direct answer to your question, no, there isn't anything to stop Apple from charging $4.99 for each .1 System Update. There never was. It's just that they don't.



I guess some people are just too used to getting stuff for free. So this one thing happens where for one reason or another Apple needs to (or feel strongly that they should) charge a very minimal fee for the update, and people go bonkers. Amazing.


If you don't approve of Apple's practice, don't buy the update. It will cost you no money to not, and your Mac will do everything that it promised to do the day you bought it. Feel free to later add on a Airport Express card w/802.11n for $100. That is your choice.
post #19 of 69
Apple adds support for new cameras and video cameras and/or video/RAW formats to iPhoto, iMovie, Final Cut and Aperture. those are NEW FEATURES...not bug fixes...

hell, just last week, there was an update for iPhoto that added more templates and book/card features...that was a FREE update...
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #20 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

In direct answer to your question, no, there isn't anything to stop Apple from charging $4.99 for each .1 System Update. There never was. It's just that they don't.

Um, yes there is. If they were to charge for these fixes, you could sue for exactly the same thing. They sold you something that was less than the specification. Most of these are bug fixes which means the software does not behave in a way that was suggested at the time of sale.
post #21 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Three words: court of law

Like I say in the real estate business "it's nothin' 5 gallons of gas and a match won't cure!"

Not technically a historic building. Google Jackling Estate. I think the town of Woodside needs to pony up and buy it if they want to keep it.
OMG here we go again...
Reply
OMG here we go again...
Reply
post #22 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Apple adds support for new cameras and video cameras and/or video/RAW formats to iPhoto, iMovie, Final Cut and Aperture. those are NEW FEATURES...not bug fixes...

hell, just last week, there was an update for iPhoto that added more templates and book/card features...that was a FREE update...

That's all software enhancements. None of those updates did anything to the hardware. Did it suddenly make your USB1.1 port into a USB2 port? Firewire 400 into a Firewire 800? Or, perhaps, a 100Base-TX ethernet port into a Gigabit? A CD-RW drive into a DVD-RW drive? An XGA monitor into a UXGA monitor?

Those are the parallels you should be drawing. You bought a machine that does 802.11g, and suddenly you're going to have 802.11n.
post #23 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts View Post

Um, yes there is. If they were to charge for these fixes, you could sue for exactly the same thing. They sold you something that was less than the specification. Most of these are bug fixes which means the software does not behave in a way that was suggested at the time of sale.


You're talking about bug fixes. I'm talking about "enhancements" that are introduced in .1 updates. Completely different.


Unless you're trying to argue that this patch that will make your wireless card 802.11n is actually a bug-fix
post #24 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

That's all software enhancements. None of those updates did anything to the hardware. Did it suddenly make your USB1.1 port into a USB2 port? Firewire 400 into a Firewire 800? Or, perhaps, a 100Base-TX ethernet port into a Gigabit? A CD-RW drive into a DVD-RW drive? An XGA monitor into a UXGA monitor?

Those are the parallels you should be drawing. You bought a machine that does 802.11g, and suddenly you're going to have 802.11n.

As I have said, there have been free BIOS updates to enact such things as hyper threading or compatibility with new hardware.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #25 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

Those are the parallels you should be drawing. You bought a machine that does 802.11g, and suddenly you're going to have 802.11n.

I'll bet Apple will charge big $$ to update their 2.5G iPhone to a true 3G phone 1 hour after Cingular rolls out their larger 3G network.

This is brilliant - they can turn a $600 phone into a $700 phone with zero effort.... That is BS.
post #26 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

You're talking about bug fixes. I'm talking about "enhancements" that are introduced in .1 updates. Completely different.

So you are agreeing with me that there are 'enhancments' that we don't have to payfor with in the OS system updates? But that is what you were saying didn't exist and would have to be paid for if they did?

You rest my case.
post #27 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts View Post

I'll bet Apple will charge big $$ to update their 2.5G iPhone to a true 3G phone 1 hour after Cingular rolls out their larger 3G network.

This is brilliant - they can turn a $600 phone into a $700 phone with zero effort.... That is BS.

Why are you getting upset about something that hasn't happened to a product that hasn't even been released?
post #28 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

As I have said, there have been free BIOS updates to enact such things as hyper threading or compatibility with new hardware.


OK, it's not that I don't believe you, but what I want to see is a clear-cut example of a (in this case) motherboard that shipped without any indication that it can or will be able to in the future (through a BIOS update) allow HT to be turned on or become compatible with future hardware, and later provided that to you for free.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm always buying M/Bs under the premise that BIOS updates will be provided in the future for compatibility with future hardware.

In this case, NOBODY bought a late 2006 iMac (or whatever) under the premise that there was an 802.11n (draft) chip in it that will become activated. Some people (e.g., ppl who frequent these boards) may have known about that chip, but nobody SHOULD HAVE expected Apple to switch it on. So if they never did, none of us would have had the right to complain.

And Apple could have done that, if they wanted to make more dough through selling 802.11n cards. They simply would not have provided us with that patch. But they decided to, and suddenly people start bitching. I really don't get it.
post #29 of 69
Because that is the extreme that this trend could go.
post #30 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celemourn View Post

Bah! they can just add another 'o' to their name. It would go well with the typical storage location of their product.

Yeah!!!!1!! Then it would be like PoooOO!!22!
post #31 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts View Post

I'll bet Apple will charge big $$ to update their 2.5G iPhone to a true 3G phone 1 hour after Cingular rolls out their larger 3G network.

This is brilliant - they can turn a $600 phone into a $700 phone with zero effort.... That is BS.


You know what? As someone who's already made up my mind to buy the iPhone as soon as it comes out, I will be ECSTATIC to pay Apple $100 to make it a 3G phone in the future -- if that's even possible, which it most certainly is NOT.



Quote:
So you are agreeing with me that there are 'enhancments' that we don't have to payfor with in the OS system updates?


Of course there are. And those "enhancements" are nothing like what this patch will do.
post #32 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts View Post

I'll bet Apple will charge big $$ to update their 2.5G iPhone to a true 3G phone 1 hour after Cingular rolls out their larger 3G network.

This is brilliant - they can turn a $600 phone into a $700 phone with zero effort.... That is BS.

I believe that HSDPA is a hardware upgrade over EDGE, not just a software update.

As for your "sky is falling" scenario, chances are that Apple will add features like HSDPA, a 2nd, face mounted camera for iChat video conferencing, and double the NAND of the iPhone while keeping the same price point, if not making it slightly lower, when it "refreshes" it's iPhone product line.

Another, less certain possibility, is that Apple's iPhone's price will fall faster than the iPod originally did as the market is much more competitive. I foresee manufactures and carriers scrambling to add future forward services, like Visual Voicemail and a redesigned UI to their higher end lineup. Just like with it's Mac line, Apple doesn't need to have a majority marketshare to take a big chuck of the profits away from PC manufactures and, indirectly, the cell carriers.

I'd also like to see Apple allow other manufactures to use its patents on the multi-touch tecbology. They could make a killing off the royalties, and yet without Leopard's frameworks in place the UI of these 3rd-party phones would still suffer. A win win for Apple.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #33 of 69
so when are they implementing on newly purchased machines ... they're still listing g, i.e.

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html
post #34 of 69
I work in the financial services sector and I'll say one thing...the SOX (Sarbannes-Oxley) law, while originally had good intent, is a pain in the ass and a typical federal government attempt to "protect us" (thanks to Enron). It is very vague and subject to great variation in interpreting what must be done to avoid very significant fines. Most companies I am aware go far and above what was probably intended by the law in order to ensure compliance. (It also provides great job justification for all those high-priced consultants who help us interpret SOX and then ask for even more money to help make sure we are in compliance).

SOX is a relatively new law, which is why many of the examples given above may not apply because they happened pre-SOX, and also why companies are still trying to figure out how to implement the regulation in a reasonable manner.

Finally, given Apple's recent legal issues around stock options grants, I'm not surprised they are trying to be squeaky-clean in all their accounting. Heck, it's probably costing them more than $1.99 just to administer the program.
post #35 of 69
"1926 building" ... "Uphold Our Heritage"

How cute.
In Europe we wouldn't exactly consider a building dated 1926 "heritage".
If you would like to waste a 1626-1726 building you *might* get a reaction though.
post #36 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Apple adds support for new cameras and video cameras and/or video/RAW formats to iPhoto, iMovie, Final Cut and Aperture. those are NEW FEATURES...not bug fixes...

hell, just last week, there was an update for iPhoto that added more templates and book/card features...that was a FREE update...

there was an iphoto update?
post #37 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendoka View Post

"1926 building" ... "Uphold Our Heritage"

How cute.
In Europe we wouldn't exactly consider a building dated 1926 "heritage".
If you would like to waste a 1626-1726 building you *might* get a reaction though.

That is reasonable.
post #38 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celemourn View Post

Bah! they can just add another 'o' to their name. It would go well with the typical storage location of their product.

I think this one is is really inappropriate of Apple. In the Uk, no one is going to see the name as 'secur' 'ipod' they will read it as 'securi' 'pod' because there is a large and well known security firm called Securicor and the products intended function is obviously more closely related to a security function than an audio one.
post #39 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendoka View Post

"1926 building" ... "Uphold Our Heritage"

How cute.
In Europe we wouldn't exactly consider a building dated 1926 "heritage".
If you would like to waste a 1626-1726 building you *might* get a reaction though.

Steve's mansion isn't considered historic due to its age but because it was designed by famed architect George Washington Smith.
post #40 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

That's all software enhancements. None of those updates did anything to the hardware. Did it suddenly make your USB1.1 port into a USB2 port? Firewire 400 into a Firewire 800? Or, perhaps, a 100Base-TX ethernet port into a Gigabit? A CD-RW drive into a DVD-RW drive? An XGA monitor into a UXGA monitor?

Those are the parallels you should be drawing. You bought a machine that does 802.11g, and suddenly you're going to have 802.11n.

Irrelevant.

If you just want to talk networking firmware, in the past Apple have also added WPA2 support and not charged for it. IMHO that's a more direct parallel.

If the SOX law is basically saying that you can't now add extra features to a product post sale without having to recognise some of the revenue in the quarter the new feature shipped then I can't see how anyone can ship new features in a software update rather than just corrective bug fixes to already advertised capabilities. If so, this is a stupid law but IANAL.

If that's the gist of it, then I'm so glad my router is from Taiwan as it's had regular free updates with new features in the last six months including adding WDS and a really nice Multi-NAT page.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Briefly: 802.11n fee, Jobs' mansion woes, Apple targets British firm