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John Edwards Hypocrisy

post #1 of 74
Thread Starter 
Well - about the only Democrat that I could see winning in 08 has just moved into his new house, and done major damage to his chances in 08 . He talks a good game about "two Americas", but its hard to say that when moving into a new house like this. If you have the cash - then great - however don't run on the "two Americas" platform and then move into a 6 million $ / 30,000 sq ft. house.

[CENTER] [/CENTER]

Here - I made this using my iMac

Been too busy to post in a forum where I need to think....but I'm back.
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post #2 of 74
Why do you hate capitalism and success?
post #3 of 74
Bacillus hearts class warfare.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #4 of 74
Thread Starter 
I love capitalism and I love success – it’s the American dream and what makes this country so great. What I hate is hypocrisy…the man derives the “two Americas” all the time, one America made of the haves and the other made up of the have nots. However, when push comes to shove – he chooses to build one of the most opulent houses in the area. I would not say a darn thing - if it was not for his "Two Americas" line that he is always pushing.

I hope you can see the distinction

I don't see how he can even have a chance in 08 after this little stunt. I hope he likes his new house. I also hope his wife is in good health as well.
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post #5 of 74
Edwards' two Americas thing is based on structural observation that current policy rewards investments and punishes wages.

He hasn't taken a vow of poverty, he isn't idly decrying the existence of rich people. He's promoting policies that would move the equation back towards rewarding wages.

How big a house he builds doesn't have any bearing on that.

Or are you under the impression that the only politicians that can legitimately critique inequality are themselves poor or working class?
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post #6 of 74
There goes another thread-- its premise killed by the 4th post.

As an aside, bacillus is the bacteria that causes anthrax.
post #7 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Edwards' two Americas thing is based on structural observation that current policy rewards investments and punishes wages.

He hasn't taken a vow of poverty, he isn't idly decrying the existence of rich people. He's promoting policies that would move the equation back towards rewarding wages.

How big a house he builds doesn't have any bearing on that.

Or are you under the impression that the only politicians that can legitimately critique inequality are themselves poor or working class?

But by building a house that's probably greater than John will ever be able to appreciate or make use of, he's supporting this very inequality.
post #8 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

There goes another thread-- its premise killed by the 4th post.

As an aside, bacillus is the bacteria that causes anthrax.

No Bacillus is the genus that included Bacillus anthracis, also called Anthrax. However, Bacillus is not the bacterium (not bacteria) that causes Anthrax.

Also, Bacillus can be used in morphology/shape, although I prefer the term bacilli, Ive seen the term used to refer to rod shaped morphology.
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post #9 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacillus View Post

No Bacillus is the genus that included Bacillus anthracis, also called Anthrax. However, Bacillus is not the bacterium (not bacteria) that causes Anthrax.

Also, Bacillus can be used in morphology/shape, although I prefer the term bacilli, Ive seen the term used to refer to rod shaped morphology.

Ah, typical. Choosing a phallic name.
post #10 of 74
Would you feel better if he lived in a cardboard house?
post #11 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorMatt View Post

Would you feel better if he lived in a cardboard house?

Actually I feel pretty good he is living in the house is now – it blunts his populist message, which is a pillar of his ‘08 bid.

It makes for some great fodder, when on one hand he talks about how middle class America is just getting by, and then on the other hand, he lives in a 30,000! Sq ft. house… with a freakin’ squash court no less!!! To the average voter – this is pure hypocrisy to live in such lavishness, and then rail again the have vs. have not culture.

I know many here are democrats – but take the mule button off for five minutes and analyze the political ramifications of this. Surely you will see how we Republicans can use this to our advantage should Jonny ever find his way onto the ticket. I’m getting all giddy thinking about it right now!
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post #12 of 74
Addabox is right.

Baciilus, populism has nothing to do with not enjoying the benefits of capitalism. It isn't communism. Populist politicians from a century ago were also living it large, as it were...
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post #13 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacillus View Post

Im getting all giddy thinking about it right now!

Well, quite, but you don't really give a reptile's anus how 'your side' wins, as long as someone from 'your side' does. Race, hypocrisy, previous drug use. If it's not one thing, it'll be another.

The election's not for another year, Bacillus.
post #14 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacillus View Post

Actually I feel pretty good he is living in the house is now – it blunts his populist message, which is a pillar of his ‘08 bid.

It makes for some great fodder, when on one hand he talks about how middle class America is just getting by, and then on the other hand, he lives in a 30,000! Sq ft. house… with a freakin’ squash court no less!!! To the average voter – this is pure hypocrisy to live in such lavishness, and then rail again the have vs. have not culture.

I know many here are democrats – but take the mule button off for five minutes and analyze the political ramifications of this. Surely you will see how we Republicans can use this to our advantage should Jonny ever find his way onto the ticket. I’m getting all giddy thinking about it right now!

I knew you were being disingenuous about this hypocrisy charge after the science lecture you gave me, but this post confirms you only care about perception rather than truth.

You know better, Scott.
post #15 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

I knew you were being disingenuous about this hypocrisy charge after the science lecture you gave me, but this post confirms you only care about perception rather than truth.

You know better, Scott.

It's not Scott, I swear, unless Scott has learned how to use the shift key. This was written by someone younger than Scott and, weirdly, more honest (no attempt to hide the aims.) Less spittle-flecked and crazygonuts than Scott, certainly.
post #16 of 74
Supporting the betterment of the poor doesn't mean you have to give your money to charity
post #17 of 74
Who cares about the photo? Edwards makes me sick. "One America that pays the taxes, one that gets the tax breaks." Yes, except he's got it backwards. The top 1% pay 50% of the taxes. The top 10% pay about 85% of the taxes.

"Middle Class America, whose needs Washington has forgotten"

Our needs? Our needs? I'll tell you what I need. I need blowhard, suave-using hillbilly lawyer politicians to stop telling me what I need. I need for someone to figure out that the government isn't here to take care of our "needs" and "happiness." That's what I need.
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post #18 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Who cares about the photo? Edwards makes me sick.
.

I can't get past the photo. The guy's nauseating.
post #19 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Our needs? Our needs? I'll tell you what I need. I need blowhard, suave-using hillbilly lawyer politicians to stop telling me what I need.

You sound like Ed Begley in 12 Angry Men.

Is it just me?
post #20 of 74
I agree: It is hypocrisy... and it's especially noticeable amongst the "elite left" (if there is such an oxymoronic reality). Look at the "limousine liberal" syndrome: politicians living mega-opulent lifestyles whilst calling for social egalitarianism, to make it look on the surface as if they have the interests of the less fortunate, or average earner in mind). To preach "progressive values" while filtered by such wealth to the harsh realities of life endured by the average working class American to whom they are trying to reach (ie those 10s of millions with 2 jobs and no life).... doesn't quite compute. I am not saying that "liberals" don't deserve to earn megasalaries because of their political stance: it just kinda *stinks* that a public figure like John Edwards who claims to speak for "ordinary Americans" goes and purchases a spread like that. For sure, he has every right to to earn what he can and spend it however he wants...but a 30,000 sq ft mansion with all those "extras" is a supremely inappropriate gesture. At least at the other end of the spectrum (the Rupert Murdoch, Enron etc. doctrine and similar), they aren't pretending to be something they are not: in their case, what you see is what you get, in all its sociopathic or even psychopathic ugliness.

I forget whose quote this is, but perhaps John Edwards and the Hollywood elite (for example) should take it to heart:
Quote:
"Money is like fertilizer. Pile it all up in one place and its starts to smell bad.... but if you spread it around, it will grow things"

.
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post #21 of 74
What is George Bush's Crawford "ranch" worth? How much has he spent on renovations and additions since he's become president?

We know it's approximately 1600 acres.

The ranch has a creek, canyon, waterfalls, and meadows for grazing. They also renovated an existing farmhouse and built a new home on the property.

How much did that new home cost?

How much did it cost to have his "private fishing lake" stocked with bass?

[UPDATE]

The Crawford "house" is 10,000 sq. ft, the same size as Edward's main house. There are other buildings on the ranch that would add significantly to the overall square footage of living space. It also includes a very large "indoor private pool" for the Bush twins (of which they loudly demanded). Apparently Bush got a sweet deal on the construction of the home.

Also the horses you see on his ranch. Yeah, not indigenous to the ranch. They were purchased shortly before he moved in to the home in 2000. Problem is...Bush doesn't ride horses. Just ask Vicente Fox. Previously it was a pig farm.
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post #22 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

What is George Bush's Crawford "ranch" worth? How much has he spent on renovations and additions since he's become president?

We know it's approximately 1600 acres.

The ranch has a creek, canyon, waterfalls, and meadows for grazing. They also renovated an existing farmhouse and built a new home on the property.

How much did that new home cost?

How much did it cost to have his "private fishing lake" stocked with bass?

[UPDATE]

The Crawford "house" is 10,000 sq. ft, the same size as Edward's main house. There are other buildings on the ranch that would add significantly to the overall square footage of living space. It also includes a very large "indoor private pool" for the Bush twins (of which they loudly demanded). Apparently Bush got a sweet deal on the construction of the home.

Also the horses you see on his ranch. Yeah, not indigenous to the ranch. They were purchased shortly before he moved in to the home in 2000. Problem is...Bush doesn't ride horses. Just ask Vicente Fox. Previously it was a pig farm.



I love how you use "the main house" - w/o adding the extra 18,000 square feet of under roof space, like his indoor swimming pool and squash court. Real nice, compare an entire house of President Bush with just a third of the total house of John Edwards.

I bet you do it with a straight face to.

Also - its not the size of the house, but the tone of the message of the owner that makes this such a joke. To quote the NYPost: ESTATE OF DENIAL
EDWARDS MANSION CLASHES WITH 'POOR' TALK
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post #23 of 74
Oh yeah, why my family in South Carolina has well over 30,000 square feet alone in car ports... If we're counting area under roofs...
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post #24 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacillus View Post

Actually I feel pretty good he is living in the house is now it blunts his populist message, which is a pillar of his 08 bid.

It makes for some great fodder, when on one hand he talks about how middle class America is just getting by, and then on the other hand, he lives in a 30,000! Sq ft. house with a freakin squash court no less!!! To the average voter this is pure hypocrisy to live in such lavishness, and then rail again the have vs. have not culture.

I know many here are democrats but take the mule button off for five minutes and analyze the political ramifications of this. Surely you will see how we Republicans can use this to our advantage should Jonny ever find his way onto the ticket. Im getting all giddy thinking about it right now!

Good thing the current populist in the White House doesn't have a mansion on 1600 acres! That would have totally destroyed his populist image in 2000 and 2004!
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post #25 of 74
Dammit midwinter, you beat me to it!
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post #26 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Good thing the current populist in the White House doesn't have a mansion on 1600 acres! That would have totally destroyed his populist image in 2000 and 2004!

Or 100,000 acres in Paraguay for that matter...oh wait?
post #27 of 74
Not to mention George Bush completely ran a populist campaign in 2000. He convinced America that "it was their money" and they should have it back. Populist. Only his "two Americas" was "you" and "Clinton's surplus".

But I don't expect guys like Bacillus to reflect too deeply on something like that. He's too busy mocking outrage over John Edwards.
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post #28 of 74
Pretty ironic coming from the party of the Rich, This thread is just more Spin from the masters of spin. Lets not talk issues, lets talk crap like this or how Hillary sings, what do you expect from the republicans? Its not like they can point to any issue and say see we solved this or fixed that, No all they have done is screw the Population as hard as they could while they ran all three branches and sold us out over and over and over. China is happy, Saudi's are happy,Oil companys are happy,Pharmaceutical giants are Happy, Mexico is Happy,, see a pattern? instead we get to hear about an ambulance chaser. Lets talk issues.
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post #29 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Who cares about the photo? Edwards makes me sick. "One America that pays the taxes, one that gets the tax breaks." Yes, except he's got it backwards. The top 1% pay 50% of the taxes. The top 10% pay about 85% of the taxes.

"Middle Class America, whose needs Washington has forgotten"

Our needs? Our needs? I'll tell you what I need. I need blowhard, suave-using hillbilly lawyer politicians to stop telling me what I need. I need for someone to figure out that the government isn't here to take care of our "needs" and "happiness." That's what I need.

It's funny (and sad) how you think it's a shame that the top 10% has to pay about 85% of the taxes, but don't mind that the top 10% has 75% of the tax base.

Oh, and the fact that Edwards (as a rich guy) insists that the rich guys (including himself) should be paying more, strikes me as more credible than a guy like Bush (as a rich guy) who insists that the rich guys (including himself) should be paying less. But maybe that's my European mindset talking...
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post #30 of 74
Republican Americans. Gotta love them.
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post #31 of 74
Republicans aren't bad-- it's the 30 percenters you have to watch out for.
post #32 of 74
Dead enders.
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post #33 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Dead enders.

Suiciders.
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post #34 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpcMs View Post

It's funny (and sad) how you think it's a shame that the top 10% has to pay about 85% of the taxes, but don't mind that the top 10% has 75% of the tax base.

Oh, and the fact that Edwards (as a rich guy) insists that the rich guys (including himself) should be paying more, strikes me as more credible than a guy like Bush (as a rich guy) who insists that the rich guys (including himself) should be paying less. But maybe that's my European mindset talking...

John Edwards, rather then paying his fair share of payroll taxes on all his income - he set himselp up a "S corporation" and from this, and paid himself a salary that was a fraction of his total income, and made the vast remainder free from payroll taxes

Here is the source – Forbes Magazine. I quote…
Quote:
The idea is to do what Democratic vice presidential candidate and former North Carolina Senator John Edwards did back when he was a trial lawyer: Set up your practice as an S corporation, pay yourself a reasonable salary as an employee and then take the rest as S corp profits that are subject to income but not payroll taxes. (S corp profits aren't subject to corporate tax but are all passed through to an owner's return and taxed at ordinary income rates.)


http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0314/046a.html


In your post – you said the following

Quote:
Oh, and the fact that Edwards (as a rich guy) insists that the rich guys (including himself) should be paying more, strikes me as more credible than a guy like Bush (as a rich guy) who insists that the rich guys (including himself) should be paying less. But maybe that's my European mindset talking...


I put it to you sir – how can you make this statement about Edwards who uses tax tricks to save over half a million dollars in one year alone by making his S corporation? Does this make him credible that he knows the loopholes of the tax code, and uses them to his advantage to lessen his tax load substantially? I ask – IS THIS FAIR? I put to everyone here, Republican and Democrat alike - IS THIS RIGHT? IS THIS FAIR? I know its legal - but that does not make it fair!


I maybe some simple American who likes to collect guns and read books about war – but it would never enter my mind to do something like this and not pay my fair share. Its simply not right. I guess I’m a chump and not as smart about taxes as John Edwards is, and for that I’m sorry.
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post #35 of 74
Omg John Edwards Is Rich He Hates America!!!

edit: why the hell did it reduce my all caps to this?
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post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacillus View Post

John Edwards, rather then paying his fair share of payroll taxes on all his income - he set himselp up a "S corporation" and from this, and paid himself a salary that was a fraction of his total income, and made the vast remainder free from payroll taxes

Here is the source Forbes Magazine. I quote



http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0314/046a.html


In your post you said the following




I put it to you sir how can you make this statement about Edwards who uses tax tricks to save over half a million dollars in one year alone by making his S corporation? Does this make him credible that he knows the loopholes of the tax code, and uses them to his advantage to lessen his tax load substantially? I ask IS THIS FAIR? I put to everyone here, Republican and Democrat alike - IS THIS RIGHT? IS THIS FAIR? I know its legal - but that does not make it fair!


I maybe some simple American who likes to collect guns and read books about war but it would never enter my mind to do something like this and not pay my fair share. Its simply not right. I guess Im a chump and not as smart about taxes as John Edwards is, and for that Im sorry.

So, um..... you actually agree with Edwards that the system is unfair, you just want to hear it from someone poorer?
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post #37 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So, um..... you actually agree with Edwards that the system is unfair, you just want to hear it from someone poorer?

Unfair, in so far as loopholes / making dummy companies, like the one John Edwards used, to avoid paying a massive amount of taxes (over half a million dollars in one year alone) - then yes.

If you mean 'unfair' in another context, then that is another topic.

I for one would prefer a consumption tax or some type of flat tax. The current system, which John Edwards used with legerdemain to avoid paying 500,000$+ in taxes in just one year - is broken. The system now in place needs to be replaced with one that is harder to bilk (like John Edwards did).

Again another day, another hypocritical democrat.
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post #38 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacillus View Post

Unfair, in so far as loopholes / making dummy companies, like the one John Edwards used, to avoid paying a massive amount of taxes (over half a million dollars in one year alone) - then yes.

If you mean 'unfair' in another context, then that is another topic.

I for one would prefer a consumption tax or some type of flat tax. The current system, which John Edwards used with legerdemain to avoid paying 500,000$+ in taxes in just one year - is broken. The system now in place needs to be replaced with one that is harder to bilk (like John Edwards did).

Again another day, another hypocritical democrat.

So you do agree with Edwards that there are two Americas. Sounds like you've found your candidate!
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post #39 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

So you do agree with Edwards that there are two Americas. Sounds like you've found your candidate!


Just becase I think the tax system needs an overhall - does not mean I subscribe to this "two Americas" crap he is pushing. In our system, there are levels of worth, some have a lot, some have much and some have little - this is just fine by me.

What is not good is this joker making the claim he wants to fix the "two Americas" - but then moves into a 30,000 square foot/6 million $ estate. Or, someone who claims the tax code is unfair to the poor - but who himself used a loophole to avoid paying half a million dollars in taxes by making a S corp...in a single year!!! That is what I mind, and you should too.
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post #40 of 74
Now you're just repeating yourself. We've already shown you how Bush's similar populist message in 2000 is met with the same level of hypocrisy. Is it hypocritical that politicians are rich bastards while claiming to support the poor? Yes. Do ALL POLITICIANS do this? YES!

Our point is that it seems a bit disengenuous to force Edwards to higher standard then the current fucking president of the United States, his father, Ronald Reagan, et al!!!!!!

You're just wong. Face it.
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