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post #81 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

umm most businesses don't want you watching tv, buring dvds, connecting to a xbox, or playing PC games.

Ummm... at my business (a very large multinational corporation, btw), the ability to burn DVDs in order to archive some pretty big media files is crucial in my group.

Looks like we won't be upgrading to Vista any time soon, in part because of stuff like this.

.
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post #82 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

umm most businesses don't want you watching tv, buring dvds, connecting to a xbox, or playing PC games.

You didn't actually read my message, did you?

I said for a home power-user.

Of course, no business will care about the media features.

But a home user can't use either of the home editions if he telecommutes, because those editions don't allow you to connect to a domain-based network, and they don't support encryption (which a lot of businesses require for off-site computers.) Home users will want all of the media features, forcing them to buy the Ultimate edition (which is my entire point.)
post #83 of 116
http://www.informationweek.com/windo...leID=197001418

LOL... no wonder Microsoft refers to Apple as 'R&D South'. They're always playing catch-up to the Cupertino boys.

And what's the current count on how many times has MS been humiliated by their internal e-mails anyway?

.
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post #84 of 116
I was just replying to the business end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

You didn't actually read my message, did you?

I said for a home power-user.

Of course, no business will care about the media features.

But a home user can't use either of the home editions if he telecommutes, because those editions don't allow you to connect to a domain-based network, and they don't support encryption (which a lot of businesses require for off-site computers.) Home users will want all of the media features, forcing them to buy the Ultimate edition (which is my entire point.)
post #85 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdawso View Post

You appear to be somewhat new here - welcome! As far as supporting development on the Mac, Apple is terrific! When you join ADC, you get all sorts of developer resources, including a development environment (Xcode), SDKs, how-to's, videos, and a whole lot more.

I think it needs to be augmented with a third party book to start out, even for intermediate programmers. The Apple docs I've tried to use are often confusing or inadequate. It doesn't help that their downloadable examples are often not compilable on the latest version of Xcode, I had to get to a different computer to see how or if it works.
post #86 of 116
I use both Mac and PC, because there are somethings online that just dont work with the Mac. If it werent for that I wouldnt even use windows. All this talk about which operating system is the best and all the new features has me puzzled. Mostly cause, I hardly ever use the features of either OS. Most everything I a do has to do with the internet. Now I must say that I like little features like widgets, and spotlight, and I really like expose. But if they really want people to flock their OS, they need to make one that is almost totally web based and improve the ways you search and browse the internet. Just my opinion, Clyde
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post #87 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdawso View Post

You appear to be somewhat new here - welcome! As far as supporting development on the Mac, Apple is terrific! When you join ADC, you get all sorts of developer resources, including a development environment (Xcode), SDKs, how-to's, videos, and a whole lot more. If you are meaning the iPhone and iPod, I woiuld counsel patience before slamming Apple.

More than that.

Every copy of Mac OS X comes with a full suite of developer tools, including an IDE, compiler, debugger, resource editors, and on-line reference manual.

The documentation is (as someone else mentioned already) meant for use by people who already know what they're doing, but there are plenty of good books for the developer who wants to get started. I would recommend new developers start with Cocoa Programming For Mac OS X, available at most good book stores. It assumes you know C, and some basic object oriented concepts. It teaches the rest of what a Mac OS X programmer needs to know - the Objective C language, the developer tools, and the most important object classes.

I learned from this book and found it extremely useful. The only real problem I had was that the Xcode tools bundled with Tiger (Mac OS 10.4) are a little different from those bundled with Panther (10.3), which the book is based on. But there aren't that many differences, and it shouldn't be that hard to figure them out.
post #88 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

http://www.informationweek.com/windo...leID=197001418

LOL... no wonder Microsoft refers to Apple as 'R&D South'. They're always playing catch-up to the Cupertino boys.

And what's the current count on how many times has MS been humiliated by their internal e-mails anyway?

.

It might also have something to do with the fact that the real money is made microsoft's copies.
post #89 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post

Vista will sell millions as it is bundled with almost all new personal computers. But anyone with a clue will avoid the product unless they can afford to get the ultimate edition which provides functionality similar to that of OS-X. Microsoft has seriously curtailed the functionality of the system with the "lesser" editions.

At the end of the day, what M$ doesn't seem to understand is that it is selling a f!@#ing operating system. Don't tell me what the f!@#! I am allowed to do with my computer. I don't plan to upgrade to this trash on my PC until XP support is stopped after the next five years. I will probably switch to Linux at that point in time.

I like the tone of your post, angry young man.

Btw, either M$ is unbelievablely stupid or totally smug about their customers.
Either way, the day M$ releases a product that doesn't suck
is probably the day they release a vacuum cleaner.

Sorry guys, i couldn't resist.
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post #90 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

It might also have something to do with the fact that the real money is made microsoft's copies.

Bully for them, but a copy is a copy is a copy.

Always makes me laugh when MS says that someone or another must 'innovate', when they themselves so seldomly do.

.
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post #91 of 116
I think the computer industy as a whole is down. I mean there is only so much one can do with computer software right now. I dont see any innovation coming from the computer industry right now, Apple included.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Bully for them, but a copy is a copy is a copy.

Always makes me laugh when MS says that someone or another must 'innovate', when they themselves so seldomly do.

.
post #92 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

I think the computer industy as a whole is down. I mean there is only so much one can do with computer software right now. I dont see any innovation coming from the computer industry right now, Apple included.


hmm - http://www.apple.com/iphone/ ?

Not innovative enough for you ?
post #93 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

... I dont see any innovation coming from the computer industry right now, Apple included.

Yeah, sure... that's why everyone is always copying/following Apple.

iPod, iPhone, OS X... everyone kind of waits around for Apple 'to do it right', then follows along right after. Its a great industry, following Apple, kudos to Microsoft on doing it so well. Anyone want to hook up their iPod-clone Zune to their OS X-clone Vista PC? 8)

Even my PC zealot friends admit that's pretty much the case... finally.

.
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post #94 of 116
Nothing on this phone is new or innovative. These features have been around, even visual voice mail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobM View Post

hmm - http://www.apple.com/iphone/ ?

Not innovative enough for you ?
post #95 of 116
You guys are making my point for me. I say there is no innovation in the computer industy and u all say "look at the iPod and the iPhone." They changed their name from Apple computer and Apple Inc for a reason. Nothing new in innovation in the computer area. Consumer electronics, innovation is everywhere, not just Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Yeah, sure... that's why everyone is always copying/following Apple.

iPod, iPhone, OS X... everyone kind of waits around for Apple 'to do it right', then follows along right after. Its a great industry, following Apple, kudos to Microsoft on doing it so well. Anyone want to hook up their iPod-clone Zune to their OS X-clone Vista PC? 8)

Even my PC zealot friends admit that's pretty much the case... finally.

.
post #96 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

Nothing on this phone is new or innovative. These features have been around, even visual voice mail.

Yawn. Another "it's the features" apologist.

It's the interface. That's the product. And yes, what is essentially a palm top computer running a multi-touch interface with the kind of integration and attention to detail that Apple brings to the party is "something new". Just the beginning of quite a few "something news" it seems pretty obvious.

And when Apple once again shakes up the UI world with a different idea about how to interact with their computer and MS gets around to making a fairly clunky copy, people like you will reliably be around to carry on about how Apple fan boys have no right to cry foul if MS adopts some bastardized version of multi-touch because you remember seeing that Jeff Han video and so it was "nothing new" and they "stole it" in the first place.
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post #97 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

You guys are making my point for me. I say there is no innovation in the computer industy and u all say "look at the iPod and the iPhone." They changed their name from Apple computer and Apple Inc for a reason. Nothing new in innovation in the computer area. Consumer electronics, innovation is everywhere, not just Apple.

What point would that be again?

You're speaking so vaguely and briefly that no one really knows what you're trying to say here, except that you seem to want to lump the entire worldwide computer tech industry into the same 'innovate-less' boat, which is a bit laughable, unless you're the kind of person who believes that only 'once every 20 years' inventions like the the GUI and the transistor count (and even by that measure, Apple was the first to bring the GUI to the mass market, even if they didn't actually invent it).

I guess if the goal is to make Apple and MS seem on par, innovation-wise, that's about the only way to make the case, but I think most folks know that Apple innovates, and MS follows said innovations. Been that way for 20 years now, why change now? 8)

Seriously though, there are good reasons why that's the case. Its just not in Microsoft's corporate DNA to operate in this way, but it is in Apple's. Apple is a much more design- and UI- and customer-experience focused company than MS is. Unless and until that changes, Apple will continue to innovate, and Microsoft will continue to be a follower.

.
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post #98 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Ummm... at my business (a very large multinational corporation, btw), the ability to burn DVDs in order to archive some pretty big media files is crucial in my group.

Looks like we won't be upgrading to Vista any time soon, in part because of stuff like this.

.

You can burn DVD/cd's from Explorer. WMP, Itunes, Nero...as for the card games, chess, they're there, but you have to install them from the DVD, which I can understand, as I'd rather not have employees screwing around with Freecell if I was boss.

MS is attempting (very expensively) to create different market segments, and if in doing so, makes them buy Business or Ultimate, they'll make some extra money.

I look at this way - MS ties you to the OS, because everything is so Windows-centric or Apple ties you to the hardware. Still hoping Apple comes out a new Macbook with dedicated video when Leopard comes out, that's the only thing really holding me up - I despise integrated video. That or a mid-range tower for $1200-1500. I think that would over really well.
post #99 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

Nothing on this phone is new or innovative.

Yeah dude, I'm using a Treo smartphone with a multi-touch interface right now. Oh wait... I'm not.

Maybe something like the LG Prada you could try to point to, but its going to be a mere shadow of the iPhone's UI, because Apple patented all the good stuff.


.
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post #100 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

You can burn DVD/cd's from Explorer. WMP, Itunes, Nero...as for the card games, chess, they're there, but you have to install them from the DVD, which I can understand, as I'd rather not have employees screwing around with Freecell if I was boss.

MS is attempting (very expensively) to create different market segments, and if in doing so, makes them buy Business or Ultimate, they'll make some extra money.

I look at this way - MS ties you to the OS, because everything is so Windows-centric or Apple ties you to the hardware. Still hoping Apple comes out a new Macbook with dedicated video when Leopard comes out, that's the only thing really holding me up - I despise integrated video. That or a mid-range tower for $1200-1500. I think that would over really well.

I think MS trying to make everyone pony up for Ultimate will 'ultimate-ly' backfire. Its just too expensive, and folks will resent them for being railroaded so obviously. \

.
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post #101 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

You guys are making my point for me. I say there is no innovation in the computer industy and u all say "look at the iPod and the iPhone." They changed their name from Apple computer and Apple Inc for a reason. Nothing new in innovation in the computer area. Consumer electronics, innovation is everywhere, not just Apple.

I can sorta see what you're saying.
However, what you point out above about the name change to "Apple Inc" - I'd call that a hugely innovative change in a business. A change in direction and focus.
Computers are part of the product matrix and if it means utilising and incorporating that tech into developing products that are called "consumer", what the hell. Do it.

So many areas of tech are converging that Apple have to go there - a wide open field of cash cows waiting to be milked.

God - look at the iPhone - jeez those other companies have what, a 20 year march on Apple. Apple shouldn't even be able to touch their product offerings.
They have tho' - first time up, too with something that is better suited to what the market actually wants from a handheld device, imo.

edit; we're heading way ot here, so to bring it back to Vista.
I can't even begin to think how M$ or a third party dev might start to use Vista in some of these areas.
I guess it will be used in some form - but once again they'll ride on apple's coat-tails with alternative products.
post #102 of 116
I installed Vista Home Premium last night.
Needed to reinstall anyway so I thought I'd give it a chance. So far so good, but I dont have Internet until next week so no point in using computer until then
post #103 of 116
The article shows that Microsoft doesn't entice - they bludgeon, force, and coerce.

They have not had to compete based on the excellency of their product for years.
post #104 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Won't matter that much for awhile though, right? You'd need both a 64-bit OS and 64-bit applications to address/use any memory beyond 4GB? Or am I mistaken?

Oh, and welcome to the AI forums. Relatively nice place, all things considered. 8)


.

Oh. Yeah. you are right. we still would need a 64-bit OS but may not be 64-bit apps.

Thanks. I have been reading AI forums from quite sometimes, just that I took too much time to post. You guys rock BTW.

EDIT: I am Sorry. Didnt notice shamino's response. Please discard this post.
post #105 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Won't matter that much for awhile though, right? You'd need both a 64-bit OS and 64-bit applications to address/use any memory beyond 4GB? Or am I mistaken?

Oh, and welcome to the AI forums. Relatively nice place, all things considered. 8)


.

Oh. Yeah. you are right. we still would need a 64-bit OS but 64-bit apps may not be a must.

Thanks. I have been reading AI forums from quite sometimes, just that I took too much time to post. You guys rock BTW.

EDIT: I am Sorry. Didnt notice shamino's response. Please discard this post. And i accidentally repeated my post (using the forum for the first time. )
post #106 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

It's a 32-bit limitation, not a chipset limitation.

Its both. Though the processors supported 64bit, the memory controllers in chipsets older than 965 were not capable of supporting beyond 4GB.
post #107 of 116
I see on the net that they have found a hole in Vista after just one day. That has got to be a record even for Microsoft!
post #108 of 116
I heard a rumour that Mac 10.5 will actually be able to run PC applications natively on the Mac without having to install a Windows OS much like Rosetta runs PPC apps on the Intel-Mac's. Is this true?

If so... why or oh would anyone buy a PC ever again.
post #109 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEatMaKeR View Post

I heard a rumour that Mac 10.5 will actually be able to run PC applications natively on the Mac without having to install a Windows OS much like Rosetta runs PPC apps on the Intel-Mac's. Is this true?

Not in any way true.

If you want to run Windows apps, you need to buy Windows. You can either boot your Mac into Windows (using BootCamp), or you can run it under Mac OS X using a virtualization environment like Parallels or VMWare.

There are some people who would like Mac OS X to directly run Windows apps, but that's all there is. Some people who want the feature. Apple has said nothing, there have been no leaks from developers with pre-release copies, and there are no reliable rumors.
post #110 of 116
$7 billion in development, they didn't think of this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6320865.stm
post #111 of 116
I think we may have tracked down the source of Microsoft's woes over the past couple of years... its obvious from this photo that their CEO, is, in fact, the Missing Link:




On the plus side, he is very good at throwing chairs and eating bananas.
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post #112 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Windows Vista Ultimate = $400 + Security software = Priceless.
Mac OS X (Ultimate) = $129

Will all Windows Vista Features work on my 3 year old machine = Most likely not.
Will all Mac OS X Features work on my 3 year old machine = Yes.

Will I have all the drivers I need to run Windows Vista comfortably = No.
Will I have all the drivers I need to run Mac OS X comfortably = What drivers? :P

Will Windows Vista's Features make OS X look dated = No.
Will Mac OS X.5 Leopard's Features make Windows Vista look dated = Most likely yes.

Will the new look of Windows Vista make it easiers to use then its predecessor = In practice the opposite is true.
Will the new look of OS X make it easiers to use then its predecessor = Most likely yes.

Will you switch back to Windows now = No.
Will you buy Leopard = Most likely yes.

Are you glad to be rid of Windows = Hell yes.
Are you glad to be a Mac user = Hell yes.

Was there a point to all this = Yes.
What was the point = Switch.

Funny? = Yes! Well done.
post #113 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker View Post

and don't bother trying to use both Spotlight and Dashboard unless you use the absolute maximum of RAM.

Funny, Im able to use both Dashboard and Spotlight on both an iBook G3 900MHz (512MB RAM) and a Power Mac G4 867Mhz (640MB RAM) without any problems. Granted, the ripple effect is not present, but both are from 2003.
post #114 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4fx View Post

Funny, Im able to use both Dashboard and Spotlight on both an iBook G3 900MHz (512MB RAM) and a Power Mac G4 867Mhz (640MB RAM) without any problems. Granted, the ripple effect is not present, but both are from 2003.

I have an iBook G3 with 700 MHz and 640 MBs of RAM. It shipped with 10.1.4. Tiger was certainly not optimized to be used on it.
post #115 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker View Post

I have an iBook G3 with 700 MHz and 640 MBs of RAM. It shipped with 10.1.4. Tiger was certainly not optimized to be used on it.

In my experience, the biggest bottleneck on those older systems is the amount of memory. Unfortuntely, none of the iBook G3s can be expanded enough to be comfortable with Tiger.

With 10.3, the minimum memory I would consider was 256M (Apple said 128M, but I strongly disagree.) I considered 512M to be sufficient for most tasks.

With 10.4, Dashboard and Spotlight significantly increased the memory footprint. With 10.4, I wouldn't use it with less than 512M, and I recommend 1GB.

Unfortunately, no iBook G3 supports more than 640M. So some things are going to be slower than they should be. But this is memory, not the G3 processor. I've found performance acceptable (not fast, but acceptable) on a PowerMac G3 with 1G of RAM. Ditto for those iMac/G3 models that can be upgraded to 1GB.

So yeah, I agree with you. Don't run 10.4 on an iBook/G3 unless you max out the RAM. And even then, don't use Dashboard (it doesn't load into memory until you activate it the first time after logging in.) Disabling Spotlight is much more of a PITA, but might also be a good idea on such a computer.

It's probably a good thing that (if the rumors are true) 10.5 won't install on G3 systems.
post #116 of 116
Yep, why anyone wants to go for Vista is beyond me. I work for a large company (over 100000 workers worldwide) and we're still on windows 2000. Is there any current need to update? When all vista is is a shiney new interface with basically still the same internals, probably not.
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