Originally Posted by segovius
Not quite like them.
I don't have a psychological need to trumpet my beliefs to any other human being at all. In fact, I doubt anyone knows what they really are.
Fundies oth, and yourself to a certain extent, do have this desire in varying degrees.
And after all, as Nietzsche so wisely said; "faith is not wanting to know what is true". If you know something for yourself then there is no need to bolster it with other's support or any need for faith at all.
yes, but its not like I forget all this every time I post something, although it might not be at the forefront of my consciousness.
Whatever the natural or supernatural pecking order is that created me, I have a feeling of my place in it, and there are some who I consider more gifted and some I consider less gifted, I'd like to spend time with the 'more' and less with the 'less' - but then we all feel like that, so you for instance probably dont want to greatly expend effort with me - because there is a sense that I am too stupid to understand - the same feeling I get when conversing with xxx.
When one contemplates the Bible for instance, one might assume that the writers (or god) would have wanted to explain the 'message' to as many people as possible. Assuming the writers or god were of reasonable intellect, they would have realised that most people wouldn't really understand it. But whats more worrying is that they would know that most people would interpret it entirely oppositely to what was intended (im trying to avoid using the word 'wrongly' - because that is yours and my POV)
What would we be to make of these peoples intentions then? Is it a book that the intellectual and spiritual elite wrote for the fellow elite? If it is - then it must
be rejected by the non-elite (thats me) for being grossly unfair. Is God unfair?
Did they write a book that is to be understood by the lowest of intelligence and spirituality? Then it must
be rejected because that is grossly unfair to people of higher intelligence and spirituality.
Did they write a book that could be understood by everyone - to the degree they are capable of? Hmm, a wiser person might think so - but really - isn't that completely unfair for everyone
Afterall, im quite happy to judge people as being 'less' or 'more' - or to put it more crudely - dumber and smarter - I'd consider you smarter - but then if youre so smart - surely you would have been at some point of similar understanding to me - so why then are you implying me as a donkey? - to some extent I'd agree - from your POV i probably am a donkey - maybe thats all I can ever be. Is it fair then that someone who'se more versed in the esoteric understanding of the book, can still fall foul of the same pitfalls as someone like myself? What does that imply about the genuinity and message of the book?
Why is it that with greater understanding - there comes greater elusiveness and reluctance to explain things? Perhaps I've fallen through many 'trap doors' in my quest to find this elusive 'truth' thing. Perhaps you could have prevented some of those - but I get the feeling that you'll stand there and watch - if not pull the lever.
Contemplating this, I wonder if infact the path to truth IS
the process of falling through the trap door - often. I wonder if it is a test of resolve to see how many times you can pick yourself up and carry on - is it a game devised by God that only the people who pick themselves up every time
and carry on are only the worthy to discover the truth? If i gave up after 'truth-1' falls - is it right that someone who picked themselves up at the final hurdle may deem me stupid?
If this MO, were discovered by some other religious or cultist group - you'd immediately call foul and rightly see that infact the group isn't about truth or knowledge - just the impression or illusion of it - and any friends you had watching you fall down these trapdoors would try their hardest to pull you away from the inevitable self inflicted misery.
Therefore I may be a donkey with a lot of books, and I may be stupid and corse - but thats OK with me and I dont have a personal problem with that, because I feel my intentions were honest and genuine. If I have been had over by a few people along the way - then they might be seen as trapdoors I learned something from, maybe some of the trapdoors I am fond of and like to fall through!
Perhaps then, the book is not penned of the 'highest order' after all, because at my level of understanding it is grossly unfair to everyone, if not wholly disgusting to humanity- and within my capability there is not a way to reconsile this belief with the hope that at some point it would all become 'sense' - Therefore because of my inherent 'stupidity' - it has to be by 'default' unfair, the message is a failure and therefore has to be rejected.
I hope humanity could do better than this - If the best we can do was done 2000 years ago, then humanity is over.