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Moving. . . where should I go?

post #1 of 34
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Recently I quit my job. No stories, it was just time to move on. I moved with the company (which at the time was a startup) from New Jersey to Florida. I'd like to go somewhere new, with the stipulation that there need to be small to medium sized high-tech and/or product design firms in the area. I enjoy my occupation and I'd like to continue with it.

So far, it seems like the two major applicable zones are the Northeast-corridor (DC to Boston) and California. I suppose those would be fine, but I'm also willing to go elsewhere, even overseas if there's a compelling reason to do so. I don't know much about California, except that there's a lot of business for me in Silicon Valley and perhaps a few places in San Diego.
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post #2 of 34
Check out Greenville, SC. The cost-of-living is dirt cheap. Greenville is home to the new Clemson University-International Center for Automotive Research.
post #3 of 34
Take a serious, serious look at Salt Lake City.
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post #4 of 34
I hear Hell is nice. It's warm there.

If you move within 100 miles of Philadelphia, I will be shipping you your Eagles gear. Like it or not.
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post #5 of 34
I should expand on my SLC comment. Right now, Utah's unemployment rate is somewhere in the high 3% to very low 4%, which is essentially full employment. The problem is that companies around here can't find people to work because everyone has a job, so they're actively seeking employees from elsewhere. It's a candidate's state, in other words.
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post #6 of 34
I lived in SLC a decade ago, and while it was a fantastic place in most respects, I was definitely a second class citizen by not being Mormon. (Having a 911 operator hang up on you because of that doesn't give you that warm and fuzzy feeling.) Hopefully that's changed. If so, I would imagine it's a great place.

Research Triangle Park in central NC (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) is another booming high-tech area that we're kind of sorry we left.
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post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

I lived in SLC a decade ago, and while it was a fantastic place in most respects, I was definitely a second class citizen by not being Mormon. (Having a 911 operator hang up on you because of that doesn't give you that warm and fuzzy feeling.) Hopefully that's changed. If so, I would imagine it's a great place.

Research Triangle Park in central NC (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) is another booming high-tech area that we're kind of sorry we left.

I would imagine that SLC *now* is drastically different. Huge chunks of the LDS population have moved away from SLC, leaving a nice bar scene and one of the most liberal mayors in America, who has installed light rail, streetcars, etc. This is the guy who picked Bush up at the airport, greeted him publicly, and then went to an anti-Bush rally. There's a professional soccer team, a professional basketball team, all the winter sports you could want, all the music coming through town you could ever want, an Apple store, as much pollution as you can shake a stick at!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #8 of 34
Check out Harrisburg.

Our susquehanna river was a superfund site in the 70's and the Three Mile Island nuclear meltdown site is just a few miles down the road.
post #9 of 34


I'm prejudiced. The Portland, Oregon area is great. I shouldn't be doing this because many of us don't want Portland to become another LA or Seattle. But for you I'll make an exception.

The winters are mild, but we do get some snow. It rains more than in the LA and San Diego area, but the summers are typically sunny and a little dry.

If you ski, a mountain is two hours drive from here. If you surf or like the ocean coast, it is a little over an hour away. If you like wind surfing, one of the best locations in the world is also a little over an hour away.

If you like hiking, there are trails all over. The Columbia gorge has many picturesque trails with waterfalls all over. That's my favorite, and it's less than an hour away. If you hike but want to stay in the city, we have Forest Park, with over 30 miles of trails in the hills. It is one of the largest city parks in the world I believe.

If you prefer urban living, the core of Portland, downtown, is bursting with places to live. Do you want access to higher education? Portland State University is in the heart of the city, accessible by, bus, street car, and rapid transit train from the suburbs. (The also have parking garages.) My son is a freshman studying computer science, and I have an MBA from PSU.

I moved here from southern California and never regretted it. There are many small and medium sized firms, especially in the electronic field. Intel is here big time, west of Portland in Hillsboro, Oregon. It's about a 40 minute drive on the freeway from where I live, which is just north of downtown. I came here to work for Tektronix, which has fostered many new electronic business ventures. There are also budding software firms around.

If you drink beer, the city has many micro breweries. If you drink coffee, there are many independent roasters in the city, and of course Starbucks is everywhere. There are many very fine restaurants. Portland is very much an urban experience, though it is surrounded by suburbs. Some have said it is a very European-like city. It has a river running through it, dividing the east and west sides. Lot's of bridges. We have the St Johns bridge, near where I live, which was the forerunner of the Golden Gate in San Francisco. The Columbia River is just north of Portland, dividing Oregon from Washington.

Bonneville Dam is just an hour away to the east. If you like forests, Oregon is full of them. It also has many farms too. If you are a pilot, there are several small airports around. There is a flight museum nearby that houses many old planes and is the keeper of the spruce goose, Howard Hughes' famed wooden sea plane, the H-4 Hercules. We also have a very good commercial airport of course.

See you soon.

By the way, I forgot to mention hunting and fishing -- two of Oregon's biggest attractions. There are many state parks, and many with campgrounds for either tent or camping trailer. Motorized campers are welcome too. There are also many national parks, but for campgrounds, state parks have the best facilities. If you like outdoor life, there is plenty to do in Oregon, year round.

Then too, there is boating. Wether you like powerboats or sailboats, the rivers provide lots of room for both, as well as the lakes and reservoirs around here. Last but not least, for those who like the performing arts, Portland is not lacking. There is a fine symphony orchestra conducted by Carlos Kalmar of Vienna, Austria.


Here is the on-line local newspaper, with their classified ads for jobs.

http://www.oregonlive.com/
http://www.oregonlive.com/jobs/


Here is what others have to say about Portland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland,_Oregon
http://www.el.com/to/portland/
http://portlandor.about.com/


Here are a few features and attractions in Portland.

http://www.omsi.edu/
http://www.japanesegarden.com/
http://portlandartmuseum.org/
http://www.allclassical.org/index.php5
http://www.berrybot.org/
http://www.oregonbrewfest.com/
http://www.multcolib.org/
http://www.portlandmarathon.org/


Here are some features and attractions of the state of Oregon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hood
http://www.skihood.com/
http://www.timberlinelodge.com/
http://www.visittheoregoncoast.com/
http://www.aquarium.org/
http://www.roguerivertrips.info/acti...Boat_Rides.asp
http://www.spectacularoregon.com/coa...l/perpetua.htm
http://www.el.com/to/cannonbeach/
http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/volc_i...ater_lake.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam

post #10 of 34
You could come to England: our unemployment rates run around 4-6% depending on which statistical bureau you read.

As you're in IT, your skills will be in great demand, particularly in the Golden Mile of the Canary Wharf sector, where they always need IT analysts to work out why their systems aren't working. The pay is very good, although a lot of IT companies are relocating outside of London in order to improve quality of life; fresh air in the countryside; relative ease to get into work. Otherwise, working in London you get to travel on the most expensive transport system in the world, which simultaneously offers you a free game of squash, or metaphorical analogy to a can of sardines. Breathing in hairy people's armpits on crowded trains is definitely the alternative London scene that you won't find in any other tourist guide book. The restaurants too are exorbitantly priced and generally everything is more expensive, although that's a small price to pay for being a part of this mass delusional system

When you get here, you will be so surprised that the government actually writes to you - there are a variety of taxes to pay, none of which you have any choice about. Mostly, as you are more likely to earn over £40K, you will be taxed at 40% in order to fund the drug habits of the Social Class IV-V, as well as wondering where the rest goes. But here's the best bit: as an ex-patriate, you may be able to escape regulated British tax laws as a working alien.

But don't stop there - things get better! London is an exciting cosmopolitan city which offers you fantastically expensive accommodation; a standard American apartment wil release funds enabling you to take out a mortgage on a toilet seat. This has the advantage of ensuring you have a social life, since it is so intolerable staying indoors. Again, unless you drive (and that might be taxing since you drive on the wrong side of the road ), the countryside and idyllic places would be unreasonable as a location or base - it would mean you'd need to be in a city.

The downside is, that since you have an American accent, you won't be flavour of the month, except for left-wing chicks with a chip on their right wing. Americans like London because there's a large American ex-pat colony out here and enough American influences to ensure they feel relatively at ease. Plus Americans are very well-liked, as long as they aren't conforming to stereotypes and since British people have awaken to the fact that most Americans who immigrate, do so because they are attracted to other places.

Pastimes? Well London offers happy-slapping by groups of teenagers; road-rage during rush hours, as well as picketing Whitehall and Parliament Houses during weekends for a variety of worthwhile causes.

All in all, if you can get a placement for a year, or even a job out here, you'll have a great time
post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post

Breathing in hairy people's armpits on crowded trains is definitely the alternative London scene that you won't find in any other tourist guide book.

Aw yeah. Last train out of Piccadilly Circus on a Saturday night. In the Summer. There's no smell like it. Well, except the Northern Line on any day of the week.*

* As an aside, when Red Ken was soliciting ideas about how to cool the Northern Line, I was devastated that he didn't choose my suggestion that they just stick a window unit air conditioner on the side of each car!
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post #12 of 34
Clearly your suggestion about the air-con unit was way too sensible for Ken.

Tthis is what Londoners all need:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/02/07/the-aircon-2-jacket/

That way the funding comes out of Londoners' pockets. Tourists then become second class citizens (already they will pay £4.00 for a single stop journey if they don't know how to access 'Oyster').

I was shocked to see Ken try to actually help Londoners by arguing for a late train (due to run until 1.00am). Unfortunately he was opposed by the Rail Union staff who wanted more pay. There have been some horror stories about young people getting mugged/killed/ kidnapped/raped when trying to get home from London at night.

That Northern line is legendary! You hear about its trains, but you never actually get to see them
post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post

That way the funding comes out of Londoners' pockets. Tourists then become second class citizens (already they will pay £4.00 for a single stop journey if they don't know how to access 'Oyster').

Hehe. That really isn't advertised very well, is it? Out of sheer habit I bought a zone 1 seven-day pass the last time I was there and kept watching people with their oyster passes wondering how I could get some of that action!

Quote:
That Northern line is legendary! You hear about its trains, but you never actually get to see them

Heh. I don't know what's worse: the trains or the people on them. A few years ago, I was on the Northern Line sweating buckets (it was like 27º that day and hot as hell underground) and a woman got on wearing a FULL LENGTH FUR COAT.
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post #14 of 34
Quote:
Hehe. That really isn't advertised very well, is it? Out of sheer habit I bought a zone 1 seven-day pass the last time I was there and kept watching people with their oyster passes wondering how I could get some of that action!

It's deliberate too. Only a Londoner would know, since the option doesn't come up on the automated machines. It catches out other provincial people too.

There used to be a 'carnet' book of 10 tickets options. Last year I had 7 left out of my book of 10 and they all expired (shows you how frequently I rely on the tube, even though I live here). To get an Oyster Card here's what you need:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...er/general.asp

Funny - I was just talking about oysters, but I think my thread has taken a turn for the worse...

The good news about Oyster is that in the future, it will be accepted on other networks like the DLR (Docklands Light Rail) going to the city, as well as other tram services (Croydon).
The transport system here is way behind every other major European city though...just like our airports.

Yes...those women in fur coats are funny. A lot of them seem heat insensitive - I guess that has something to do with their low-body mass indexes. In winter they don't even go out because the cold just cripples them and their fingers turn icy blue or go into spasm, due to their low metabolic rates. I guess the advantage of a fur coat on the tube is that they don't need to wear any underwear. Or clothes for that matter
post #15 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post

As you're in IT, your skills will be in great demand, particularly in the Golden Mile of the Canary Wharf sector, where they always need IT analysts to work out why their systems aren't working. . . .

But here's the best bit: as an ex-patriate, you may be able to escape regulated British tax laws as a working alien. . . .

The downside is, that since you have an American accent, you won't be flavour of the month, except for left-wing chicks with a chip on their right wing. Americans like London because there's a large American ex-pat colony out here and enough American influences to ensure they feel relatively at ease. Plus Americans are very well-liked, as long as they aren't conforming to stereotypes and since British people have awaken to the fact that most Americans who immigrate, do so because they are attracted to other places.

You go all over the board here, from making me want to go to making me want to stay. The major roadblock is that I'm much more marketable to the small-company job market, and it's harder to arrange the paperwork in these cases. I'm not strictly IT, but there is a decent amount of high-tech R&D in England, and that's not a bad thing for Spline. It would be an interesting journey for sure, although I think most of the folks who know me can back me up when I say that I'm not a big fan of taxes, and due to that I don't think I would manage to reach full ex-pat status.

Although, I will still look into it for short-ish term. I don't think I'd have too much of a problem avoiding stereotypical American misgivings.
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post #16 of 34
check out Omaha
post #17 of 34
Spine, how do quit your job without having another lined up or at least having a plan of action? Had you not thought of that before resigning or was it an impusive move?
post #18 of 34
As long as you've got the time, I'd recommend moving to Shanghai, China. Lots of opportunity there for a gwai lo with time on his hands.

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post #19 of 34
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Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Spine, how do quit your job without having another lined up or at least having a plan of action? Had you not thought of that before resigning or was it an impusive move?

Maybe he's lying, just trying to get a controversial conversation going?

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post #20 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Spine, how do quit your job without having another lined up or at least having a plan of action? Had you not thought of that before resigning or was it an impusive move?

I have a good stock portfolio, and I wanted to spend a few weeks working on my house. I haven't decided if I want to flip it or rent it for a few years until "downtown" Melbourne's (FL) grand 7-year plan is closer to completion. The housing market here never went into much of a decline.

Either way, I'm almost done totally re-doing the bathrooms. Next is the kitchen.
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post #21 of 34
Thread Starter 
For the record, I have applied to a few jobs in Silicon Valley. Oddly, most of them seem to be in Santa Clara. We'll see what happens.
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post #22 of 34
You could always work here in Sacramento and work for Intel or HP. Or even get underpaid at Apple.

You can think of it as a long vacation. You'd only be here a short time since you'd get laid off within 3 years...
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post #23 of 34
Quote:
You go all over the board here, from making me want to go to making me want to stay. The major roadblock is that I'm much more marketable to the small-company job market, and it's harder to arrange the paperwork in these cases. I'm not strictly IT, but there is a decent amount of high-tech R&D in England, and that's not a bad thing for Spline. It would be an interesting journey for sure, although I think most of the folks who know me can back me up when I say that I'm not a big fan of taxes, and due to that I don't think I would manage to reach full ex-pat status.

Although, I will still look into it for short-ish term. I don't think I'd have too much of a problem avoiding stereotypical American misgivings.

Sorry - can't help it - England is a mixed bag of goodies and my suggestions probably reflect my ambivalence about this country well.

If you're in a small-company job market, rather than having a portfolio CV to appeal to larger companies, then it may be very difficult. Short-term work here may be more appealing for you then - think of it as an odyssey. There are loads of ex-pat Americans here (don't know how they manage the tax situation though - maybe invest in offshore Guernsey?) - it's funny 'cos they talk about everything, either completely oblivious to the fact that others are present and hear everything; or they want everyone to hear everything, or they just don't care. That lack of indiscretion makes me think they would be better off in Omaha
post #24 of 34
Come back to Jersey... You never had it better!
Besides, you may qualify for free Eagles gear...
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post #25 of 34
Thread Starter 
What's with everyone trying to give away Eagles gear?

I'm from DC, and hence am a Redskins fan. Since moving to FL I've pretty much been OK as long as the NFC East does well, but if I'm back in Jersey, let's get serious. I'll be back to 100% Skins.
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post #26 of 34
You could always come to Australia plenty of good IT jobs going begging here that no one seems to want.
post #27 of 34
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Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

I'm from DC, and hence am a Redskins fan. Since moving to FL I've pretty much been OK as long as the NFC East does well, but if I'm back in Jersey, let's get serious. I'll be back to 100% Skins.

Yeah, try Austraila...

Actually I lived for a while near RTP in Carolina. Nice place that, but I figured that you wanted something a little more different having been on the East Coast for a while. I envy your freedom.

P.S. I wasn't trying to give away any of MY Eageles stuff. I was working off SDW2001's offer...
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post #28 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob05au View Post

You could always come to Australia plenty of good IT jobs going begging here that no one seems to want.

Australia would be great. I went there once, and it was a great place. The problem is that there's not much electronic product design or R&D there. If I can find a job in Australia doing what I want to do, it's a definite possibility.
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post #29 of 34
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Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


Australia would be great. I went there once, and it was a great place.


Tell us what kind of place you like. City life or outdoor life? Personal sports, or good professional sports? We know you would like electronic product development or R&D for work, but how about after hours?

post #30 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy View Post

Tell us what kind of place you like. City life or outdoor life? Personal sports, or good professional sports? We know you would like electronic product development or R&D for work, but how about after hours?


I run, play soccer, and play tennis. It's nice to be able to do those things, so I tend to appreciate the large town slash small city. It's also nice to be able to easily and cheaply get to a large city via a train in under an hour. I have absolutely no interest in "the outdoors," so far as camping and hiking and those sorts of things. I also like low taxes. Unfortunately, sometimes you can't have it all.

I grew up in DC and Bethesda, and I kind of like that basic ambience, but I'll pass on the frequest freezing rain storms they get in the winter. Northern California and possibly Oregon are probably the ideal climates for me, but then again Melbourne Australia and the UK are probably fine too. I don't mind hot summers or lack of sunshine -- in fact, I'm damn sick of sunshine after two and half years in the sunshine state -- but I hate snow and long-lasting sub-freezing winters.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I absorb myself in my work and in my constant education. I would like to live in an area that's dense with similar kinds of folks. There's a lot of creativity in NY, but there are also a lot of financeers. I prefer hanging out with innovators, entrepreneurs, and at times even artists. The Northeast and Silicon Valley are two spots where I know there are a fair amount of these types. I sure there are other hot spots, however.
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post #31 of 34
Quote:
I would like to live in an area that's dense with similar kinds of folks

There are plenty of areas with dense folk. Maybe some of the Americans here can make some local recommendations for you

Honestly -that's quite a comfort zone you have. You want a social life with low taxation; therefore financial stability, and economic stability is at the core of your values. In that case, immigrating to another country may be too demanding.....or taxing. Since a new country demands an openness to what is essentially, beyond your own comfort zone.

The west coast of the States might appeal more to you; I hear the weather is mostly 21C in San Francisco, and the social life is fantastic. Whereas it isn't sunshine Florida, it is beautiful enough to enjoy tennis and sports. Perhaps NY, like London, is a metropolis of sorts and there are sub-groups within each group - you'll find artists and creative thinkers abounding, as well as financiers and completely rigid types working shoulder to shoulder to each other depending on which street you turn down.

In any case, you're in a fortunate position without too much dependents to anchor you down - that would make a 1 year proposition anywhere very attractive imho....
post #32 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post

Honestly -that's quite a comfort zone you have. You want a social life with low taxation; therefore financial stability, and economic stability is at the core of your values. In that case, immigrating to another country may be too demanding.....or taxing. Since a new country demands an openness to what is essentially, beyond your own comfort zone.

It's not really a comfort zone. More of an ideal. The only thing that's extremely important is that there are smart people around. I've missed that aspect of the human puzzle since I've been in Florida. Other than that, I'm ultimately game for anything.
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post #33 of 34
Quote:
The only thing that's extremely important is that there are smart people around.

Problem solved then!

Appleinsider will always be with you....wherever you go!
post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


I grew up in DC and Bethesda, and I kind of like that basic ambience, but I'll pass on the frequent freezing rain storms they get in the winter.


I lived in Bethesda for a year, working at NSA in Arlington. I drove through DC Monday through Friday. I objected to the summer heat and humidity. I prefer either costal California summers, which are cool, or those in Oregon. Portland is either warm and dry in summer, or in the 70s. We get our rain in winter, but not much freezing rain -- some snow but not every winter. This winter we had five days with snow on the ground and no ice storms.


Quote:

I run, play soccer, and play tennis. It's nice to be able to do those things, so I tend to appreciate the large town slash small city. It's also nice to be able to easily and cheaply get to a large city via a train in under an hour.


What size is 'small' city for you? I guess I'd classify Portland as a medium city with a population of about 560,000 plus a dozen or so suburbs ranging from 30 to 100 thousand each.

Portland has several running and biking events every year -- the Portland marathon, with walkers too, and the bridge event in which bikers cross the river on all seven or eight bridges. Portland is known for being bike friendly, and has many bike lanes on city streets and bike trails too.

The Washington Park tennis courts are in the hills overlooking downtown. My wife and I used to play there when we were dating. Now we live one block away from the tennis courts in Columbia Park. Lots of parks here.


Quote:

I have absolutely no interest in "the outdoors," so far as camping and hiking and those sorts of things. I also like low taxes. Unfortunately, sometimes you can't have it all.


The outdoors here may grow on you. We have many trails and waterfalls. As for taxes, there is no sales tax in Oregon, one of the few such states. However there is an income tax and property taxes. I guess we must pay for government somehow.


Quote:

. . . I absorb myself in my work and in my constant education. I would like to live in an area that's dense with similar kinds of folks.


There are areas of high density living, but also more open spaces too. It has pretty diverse living conditions. Portland State University is in the heart of the city. We live near the University of Portland. Lewis and Clark is in the hills about 10 miles from downtown, and Reed is about the same distance in another direction. BTW, Steve Jobs went to Reed. Everyone here likely knows that already. I knew a fellow, who died a couple years ago, who knew Steve Wozniak here in Portland. He was pretty secretive about where Steve lives or how I could meet him, and Steve was not at his funeral service.

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