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Barack Obama is in! - Page 6

post #201 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by rageous View Post

There is no limit. No lines. There is nothing my government should not have unchallenged authority over in my life.

Just checking.
post #202 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkmeister View Post

Well, where is the line then? What is the criteria for knowing it has been crossed? At what point do we know that they have gone too far?

Geez man, that's what government is all about, deciding where the line is. I really don't think you and rageous fundamentally disagree all that much, and yet you argue with him.
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post #203 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

Geez man, that's what government is all about, deciding where the line is.

Interesting point of view. Government is the one that gets to decide where the line is drawn in terms of it making decisions for it citizens and intruding on the privacy of its citizens?

Wow. We're a long way from the founding fathers there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

I really don't think you and rageous fundamentally disagree all that much, and yet you argue with him.

I think not. He said: "There is no limit. No lines. There is nothing my government should not have unchallenged authority over in my life." That is not what I think at all. I think the role of government is to protect people's freedom from infringement from others including itself.
post #204 of 214
Chris:

I think I'm being sarcastic, and I think you don't get it.
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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post #205 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkmeister View Post

Interesting point of view. Government is the one that gets to decide where the line is drawn in terms of it making decisions for it citizens and intruding on the privacy of its citizens?

Oh for crying out loud. Yes! Who else is going to decide it? The constitution provides the framework for how those decisions are made. Who wrote up our constitution? I mean, I think the founding fathers constituted a government. The basic scope is defined, but we all the know the meaning of everything in the constitution is vociferously debated.

If not the "governent", the limited options we're left with include royalty and god (ie other forms of government). We elect our representatives and if we don't like where they draw the line, we vote for different ones.

Hell, that's what just happened a few short months ago.
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post #206 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

Oh for crying out loud. Yes! Who else is going to decide it?

Each of us individually? As long as I am not infringing on anyone else's right to freedom. What would it matter what I choose to do (including what employment arrangements I chose to enter into...which is where this began)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

The constitution provides the framework for how those decisions are made. Who wrote up our constitution? I mean, I think the founding fathers constituted a government.

Indeed, and they seemed to recognize the need for some government but also appeared to be rather wary of too much. They were quite concerned about individual freedom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

The basic scope is defined, but we all the know the meaning of everything in the constitution is vociferously debated.

A large part of the debate is over how government's control over its citizens can be expanded but still TECHNICALLY remain inside the boundaries of the constitution. What is interesting to me is to find people argue both sides of this. On one issue it is all about the government not have any right to invade our privacy or tell me what I can do with my life or body. But on some other issue those concerns vanish like dust in the wind. This issue of minimum wage is fundamentally a privacy and freedom issue. I am shocked at how people don't see that and even MORE shocked that those who finally do, don't seem to care. In THAT case privacy and freedom aren't important any more.
post #207 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkmeister View Post

Indeed, and they seemed to recognize the need for some government but also appeared to be rather wary of too much. They were quite concerned about individual freedom.

And I'm not concerned?

Again, just as with Rageous, we aren't even disagreeing that much. I'm a proponent to the proposed minimum wage increase, you are not. We're just drawing our lines differently.
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post #208 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

I'm a proponent to the proposed minimum wage increase, you are not. We're just drawing our lines differently.

I understand that we are drawing the lines in different places. But do you or do you not see the privacy and freedom implications of it? If you do, do you think they don't matter much in this case? Why? If you believe in privacy free from government intrusion and freedom from government intrusion into the decisions you make for yourself then why is this case special? What makes it so different?
post #209 of 214
So, a conservative is opposed to the minimum wage, no shocker there. But a conservative touting privacy and freedom? A conservative? Touting privacy and freedom?
post #210 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

So, a conservative is opposed to the minimum wage, no shocker there. But a conservative touting privacy and freedom? A conservative? Touting privacy and freedom?

A real conservative, yes.
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post #211 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

A real conservative, yes.

Is that like a unicorn?
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #212 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Is that like a unicorn?

A Real Conservative, an Intellectually Honest Liberal, the Yeti, Atlantis, ya know...
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post #213 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

A Real Conservative, an Intellectually Honest Liberal, the Yeti, Atlantis, ya know...

I condemn your use of Atlantis in your list of examples.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #214 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by rageous View Post

I condemn your use of Atlantis in your list of examples.

My apologies.
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