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Apple to re-enter the sub-notebook market - Page 5

post #161 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Yep, but the day Apple releases a Notebook that is anywhere from 3/16" to 1/8" thin, I'll pay anything I have to

Sebastian

Let me get this straight: you think that it's possible for a computer company to make a clamshell style notebook that is thinner than an iPod Nano? Even the Motorola RAZR is 1/2" thick! You're completely dilusional! 3/4" might be possible today, and 1/2" might be possible in a few years, but I doubt that you will ever see a notebook that is less than 1/4" thick (unless, perhaps, the screen is completely removed and replaced with a holographic display!).
post #162 of 249
Instead of LED backlights why not go for OLED? Sony showed a couple of 11" OLEDs at CES last month reportedly clearing for mass production this year. (Be sure to check the video clip at the bottom on that link to see how thin these monitors are!) Now with an OLED you could reduce the screen from its current 5mm down to 2mm. This will cause problems with the camera though...

But I guess OLEDs might be in the same league as a flash HD: coming real soon now, but not soon enough.

I think it depends on where Apple wants to place this machine. If it is an 'accessory' Mac Book, one that you carry around next to a Mac Pro or iMac at home, then I can imagine it using merely a 32GB flash HD and nothing more.

A while ago there were rumors of an 8-10" iPod / tablet / iTunes remote control. Maybe this subnotebook and that big iPod is one and the same?

WWDC is far away, though. If anything the release date seems to suggest that it either relies on Leopard technology (resolution independence? multi-touch?) or on some components to be ready (flash HD? OLED?) - otherwise I do not see why Apple couldn't release it already.

I still wish for a subnotebook that has two LCDs (or OLEDs to save battery and thickness) instead of one LCD plus a keyboard. That way a tiny laptop could still have a decent screen space (albeit with a bridge in the middle). And imagine if you could not only open it 180 degree completely flat, but a full 360 degree folding it all the way back to use it tablet style - if you wish.

Now that would be something new in a subnotebook, that Apple - entering this segment late - could people wow with, that hasn't been seen before.
Yet it's likely too expensive.
post #163 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Save Express Card slots and eSATA for that dock

Sebastian

No, I'd like to see SATA E without the dock (if any) In the field, faster transfer will save battery life, and be more pleasant all around.
post #164 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker View Post

Optical drives reach nowhere near the bandwidths to make SATA useful, which is why machines *whether laptops or desktops *typically have a PATA bridge for the optical drive. The one big reason I can think of to have an SATA optical drive is to get rid of that bridge.

SATA E would be better than USB 2 for that purpose, and would allow a small, fast, external HD. USB 2 is too slow for that as well, in my experience.
post #165 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Except PATA is not hot-pluggable. External drives must be hot-pluggable or at least warm-pluggable. This could be circumvented by using Firewire or USB 2.0. Besides, nobody said the eSATA connector would be only for the optical drive. It could just as easily allow you to connect external hard drives, which could definitely benefit from the extra bandwidth. But even Firewire 400 is a too slow for today's 3.5" SATA hard drives. You'd need Firewire 800, and that's nearly dead as an interface. eSATA is the only interface with headroom for drives in the next few years.

But nobody talked about using PATA to connect the drives externally. Naturally you'd use a FireWire or USB bridge, in which case there is plenty of enough bandwidth.

Sure, if you want the flexibility of being able to connect an optical or hard drive with the same port*but that seems silly. USB ports aren't going anywhere.
post #166 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, I'd like to see SATA E without the dock (if any) In the field, faster transfer will save battery life, and be more pleasant all around.

You do realize that eSATA doesn't provide power, so you'll require an external adapter? And that it isn't bootable with Apple's firmware?

Both things that USB 2.0 and FireWire do better
post #167 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Why are you assuming moving parts=fragile? One word: iPod. Thinner than any ultralight, yet the hard drives hold up fine, except when subjected to too much shock. Other, non-moving parts are more likely to give problems with too-thin laptops, for instance the LCD glass, which could break if flexed too much or it the laptop is dropped. 3/4" does not make an subnotebook pointless. Many subnotebooks are thicker than that right now. Sony's TX series is 1" thick. Dell's subnotebook is 1.2. Try to distinguish between what you personally want and what's really necessary.

Hmmm, yeah the Glass would be a problem. I'll have to do more research in that area, but the idea is to not flex it, so if Aluminum (according to my Macbook, plastic would not work, a bit on the bendy side) can be made Sturdy enough at a thin size, or maybe Titanium (OK now I'm guessing materials) then it would work.

But if Dell's Sub Notebook is thicker then my well... Non Sub Notebook, then that's just funny.

Sebastian
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post #168 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

I would guess that computer technology is far more resourse intensive and does more damage to the environment than producing books: save the planet and don't buy computers. \

They save a lot of paper, Laptops these days don't use very much power, and... while I hate to admit it, HP is better than Apple when it comes to recycling. They claimed to have recycled as much as a Jumbo Jet (707 or something like that, I forgot) out of their products.

Sebastian
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post #169 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

Let me get this straight: you think that it's possible for a computer company to make a clamshell style notebook that is thinner than an iPod Nano? Even the Motorola RAZR is 1/2" thick! You're completely dilusional! 3/4" might be possible today, and 1/2" might be possible in a few years, but I doubt that you will ever see a notebook that is less than 1/4" thick (unless, perhaps, the screen is completely removed and replaced with a holographic display!).

Yes I think it's possible. The thickest parts of a notebook: the screen, the battery, the HDD, and the optical drive.

The screen would be made ultra thin hopefully with LED backlights. There would be no HDD or Optical drive in this, and the battery could be made smaller and maybe be wider instead of thicker because it would be consuming far less battery power.

Sebastian
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post #170 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Instead of LED backlights why not go for OLED? Sony showed a couple of 11" OLEDs at CES last month reportedly clearing for mass production this year. (Be sure to check the video clip at the bottom on that link to see how thin these monitors are!) Now with an OLED you could reduce the screen from its current 5mm down to 2mm. This will cause problems with the camera though...

But I guess OLEDs might be in the same league as a flash HD: coming real soon now, but not soon enough.

I think it depends on where Apple wants to place this machine. If it is an 'accessory' Mac Book, one that you carry around next to a Mac Pro or iMac at home, then I can imagine it using merely a 32GB flash HD and nothing more.

A while ago there were rumors of an 8-10" iPod / tablet / iTunes remote control. Maybe this subnotebook and that big iPod is one and the same?

WWDC is far away, though. If anything the release date seems to suggest that it either relies on Leopard technology (resolution independence? multi-touch?) or on some components to be ready (flash HD? OLED?) - otherwise I do not see why Apple couldn't release it already.

I still wish for a subnotebook that has two LCDs (or OLEDs to save battery and thickness) instead of one LCD plus a keyboard. That way a tiny laptop could still have a decent screen space (albeit with a bridge in the middle). And imagine if you could not only open it 180 degree completely flat, but a full 360 degree folding it all the way back to use it tablet style - if you wish.

Now that would be something new in a subnotebook, that Apple - entering this segment late - could people wow with, that hasn't been seen before.
Yet it's likely too expensive.

LED I think would be better for this. OLED has too short of a lifespan to be worth the bother. I admit, those screens are exactly what I'm thinking of, only they look even thinner then I thought. I think manufacturers are just about to give up on OLED though. It doesn't seem possible to extend it's lifespan anymore.

I don't think an 8-10" iPod will ever see the light of day because it's just not practical. They're not one in the same, this thing is a Macbook

Sebastian
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post #171 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, I'd like to see SATA E without the dock (if any) In the field, faster transfer will save battery life, and be more pleasant all around.

It would be rather large though, and increase size.

Sebastian
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post #172 of 249
if all you really need is a screen to read 8,5 inches, with the interface like the iphone you could use a smaller screen and simply zoom things up what about a 9 inch wide screen? what is the minimum size needed given the possibility of the iphone interface??
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post #173 of 249
Quote:
LED I think would be better for this. OLED has too short of a lifespan to be worth the bother.

I don't think it's as bad. Sony quotes 18,000 hours for their blue OLEDs (up to 30-50,000 for red and green resp.). 18,000 doesn't seem much, but think about it, it means that if you use your screen 10 hours every day 365 days a year then they will last exactly 5 years. Meaning after 2.5 -3 years they are about half as bright as they were originally. I don't know about you, but I use my notebooks at best 3-4 years then I buy a new one as it's too old to use then current software. So I'd be happy with today's OLEDs lasting me 3-4 years (until reaching half-brightness). I can live with that. Such a life span might not be acceptable for a TV set, but it is for a laptop monitor.

And there's one thing that I really like about OLEDs: their contrast. Blacks are true blacks - unlike any backlit LCD which is never truly black. That should make for a really nice monitor.

Quote:
I don't think an 8-10" iPod will ever see the light of day because it's just not practical. They're not one in the same, this thing is a Macbook

I didn't literally mean we're talking iPod here. Apple - as a decoy - often assigns projects under false pretense. The iPhone was internally handled as new 'iPod' model - to cover up the fact that it is more than an iPod.
I would not be surprised if the rumors of an 8-10" iPod were in fact diversions for a new subnotebook project. Hardware technicians involved might have been told they're working on a 'big screen iPod' (and spread/created the rumors as such) while in fact their technology was always intended for a secret subnotebook project.
In that sense I meant I wouldn't be surprised if the big screen 'iPod' turned out to be the same as a MacBook subnotebook.
post #174 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

They save a lot of paper, Laptops these days don't use very much power, and... while I hate to admit it, HP is better than Apple when it comes to recycling. They claimed to have recycled as much as a Jumbo Jet (707 or something like that, I forgot) out of their products.

Sebastian

I was talking about the amount of resources that are required to manufacture a computer as opposed to the resourses required to manufacture a book. There is no doubt that a book requires a lot of paper, which means that it requires trees and water for the pulp, metals for the machines in the factory, and coal to power the process (as well as metals, plastics (oil), and trees to deliver the power to the plant). But essentially, making a book is centuries old technology (including the machinery). The amount of resources required to manufacture a computer is much higher; and when you factor in recycling, this is even worse: a book is nearly 100% recyclable, but a computer is not (in fact, computers are toxic waste!).

Now, if you're going to have a computer anyway, then the possibility of having your school texts on your computer may be better. Though, when the text is on your computer, it requires more power (coal, plastics, and trees) just to read the text, whereas no such extra resources are required to read a printed book.
post #175 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker View Post

But nobody talked about using PATA to connect the drives externally. Naturally you'd use a FireWire or USB bridge, in which case there is plenty of enough bandwidth.

Sure, if you want the flexibility of being able to connect an optical or hard drive with the same port*but that seems silly. USB ports aren't going anywhere.

Today's SATA hard drives are speced with transfer rates of up to 3Gb/sec. Even if it was half that under real world conditions, do you really think 480Mb/sec for USB 2.0 or 400Mb/sec that Firewire 400 provides (both theoretical maximums only) is anywhere close? Or even the 800Mb/sec Firewire 800?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Hmmm, yeah the Glass would be a problem. I'll have to do more research in that area, but the idea is to not flex it, so if Aluminum (according to my Macbook, plastic would not work, a bit on the bendy side) can be made Sturdy enough at a thin size, or maybe Titanium (OK now I'm guessing materials) then it would work.

You're definitely inexperienced with Apple laptops, aren't you? Thin metal can be just as flexible as thick plastic. Macbook Pros use aluminum cases, as do their predecessors. They're not ultrarigid. The original Powerbook G4 used a titanium case. It was not ultrarigid. Nothing as thin as you want will be rigid enough. Maybe boron fiber, but it's too expensive to use in a consumer electronics enclosure.
post #176 of 249
If it's a Mac Book I'd want:
11'' Widescreen running 1280x800 (approximately)
1.66 GHz C2D
512MB Ram (however if its released with Leopard I'd suggest 1 GB.
Combo-drive
Ports: 2-USB 2.0, 1-FireWire 400, Power, expresscard 34, ethernet 10/100, Mini-DVI, kensigton security slot. I'm willing to lose a USB port if theres not enough room.
Price Point - $799.00

If its a Mac Book Pro:
13.3'' Widescreen 1280x900
2 GHz - 2.16 GHz C2D
1GB Ram
Superdrive
Ports: probably same as current MB ports but with addition of a firewire 800 port.
Price Point: 1699.00

Please make the glossy screen an option. not everyone likes them.
post #177 of 249
I'd rather keep a USB port and lose the optical drive for weight and battery considerations. I have havd laptops for the past 7 years and only occasionally have I ever burned CDs or DVDs on them. More often than not, the optical drive is just added ballast I have to carry around.

I need, however, to attach a mouse, a printer, my projector (it has a USB mouse function), and my iPod.

 

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post #178 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

I don't think it's as bad. Sony quotes 18,000 hours for their blue OLEDs (up to 30-50,000 for red and green resp.). 18,000 doesn't seem much, but think about it, it means that if you use your screen 10 hours every day 365 days a year then they will last exactly 5 years. Meaning after 2.5 -3 years they are about half as bright as they were originally. I don't know about you, but I use my notebooks at best 3-4 years then I buy a new one as it's too old to use then current software. So I'd be happy with today's OLEDs lasting me 3-4 years (until reaching half-brightness). I can live with that. Such a life span might not be acceptable for a TV set, but it is for a laptop monitor.

And there's one thing that I really like about OLEDs: their contrast. Blacks are true blacks - unlike any backlit LCD which is never truly black. That should make for a really nice monitor.


I didn't literally mean we're talking iPod here. Apple - as a decoy - often assigns projects under false pretense. The iPhone was internally handled as new 'iPod' model - to cover up the fact that it is more than an iPod.
I would not be surprised if the rumors of an 8-10" iPod were in fact diversions for a new subnotebook project. Hardware technicians involved might have been told they're working on a 'big screen iPod' (and spread/created the rumors as such) while in fact their technology was always intended for a secret subnotebook project.
In that sense I meant I wouldn't be surprised if the big screen 'iPod' turned out to be the same as a MacBook subnotebook.

Hmmm... well maybe OLED could work.

However, I did not know that Apple disguised their Products like that
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post #179 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

I was talking about the amount of resources that are required to manufacture a computer as opposed to the resourses required to manufacture a book. There is no doubt that a book requires a lot of paper, which means that it requires trees and water for the pulp, metals for the machines in the factory, and coal to power the process (as well as metals, plastics (oil), and trees to deliver the power to the plant). But essentially, making a book is centuries old technology (including the machinery). The amount of resources required to manufacture a computer is much higher; and when you factor in recycling, this is even worse: a book is nearly 100% recyclable, but a computer is not (in fact, computers are toxic waste!).

Now, if you're going to have a computer anyway, then the possibility of having your school texts on your computer may be better. Though, when the text is on your computer, it requires more power (coal, plastics, and trees) just to read the text, whereas no such extra resources are required to read a printed book.

But in the end, you're printing fewer books anyways, and those things just take up a lot of space when a single computer can hold thousands of them.

Sebastian
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post #180 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

You're definitely inexperienced with Apple laptops, aren't you? Thin metal can be just as flexible as thick plastic. Macbook Pros use aluminum cases, as do their predecessors. They're not ultrarigid. The original Powerbook G4 used a titanium case. It was not ultrarigid. Nothing as thin as you want will be rigid enough. Maybe boron fiber, but it's too expensive to use in a consumer electronics enclosure.

Yes I am actually, my Macbook is actually my first Mac, and even before I would've never considered a Laptop over a desktop, so it's also my first Laptop and I'm in love with not having a single wire, accessing my Printer over my Airport Express, or playing music in the speakers, and soon... backing up my Data (now we just need Wireless Optical Drives and Scanners)

But that's beside the point. If you can't find an alternative for Metal or Plastic in the case, then perhaps an alternative for the glass? Come to think of it... I don't think my screen uses glass... not that I can tell just by touching it if there is glass behind it.

Sebastian
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post #181 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

I'd rather keep a USB port and lose the optical drive for weight and battery considerations. I have havd laptops for the past 7 years and only occasionally have I ever burned CDs or DVDs on them. More often than not, the optical drive is just added ballast I have to carry around.

I need, however, to attach a mouse, a printer, my projector (it has a USB mouse function), and my iPod.

The only reason I ever used my Optical Drive was to get Xcode off the Install Discs.

However, for your Periphreals:
Bluetooth, WiFi, Bluetooth, and USB in that order

Sebastian
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post #182 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Moriarty View Post

While I can see the exclusion of the optical drive useful for conserving battery, this does come at a disadvantage:

- How do you install software that is on a CD/DVD?
- How do you reinstall the OS from its DVDs?

You would need to get an external drive to do both.

Yes, you would need to get an external drive or Apple could let you ethernet to it. So what? How often do you install soft ware or an OS by DVD? Most software and soon backups are done online. Welcome to 2007, MM!
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post #183 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by sthiede View Post

a lot of people (including me) like tactile response when im typing.

I do as well, but I bet you haven't tried typing on a virtual keyboard long enough to really make that assessment. Besides, Apple has patents for map-able keyboards so that you really don't need more than 30 keys to do everything, if you can re-map the keys to numbers and functions, etc.

Lastly if business folks and kids can figure out and be addicted to text messaging on phones, then I think we can adapt to virtual keyboards even easier. If you have seen the TED video on the latest in multi-touch, you would see that the virtual keyboard not only could move with a persons hand movements to compensate for the wandering fingers that tactile keyboards help with, but they can compensate for mistyping on the fly. That may be more important for some (maybe not you) than the warm fuzzy feelings some get with the clicking keys.

It is time to expand our ideas of input beyond the keyboard. Most people do not like keyboards, no matter how efficient they are for word processing they may be. Most people not at work or geeking out online, do not need word processing to that level.

Now my assumption is that a subnotebook WOULD have a real keyboard, but the next new device will not.
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post #184 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post

Yes, you would need to get an external drive or Apple could let you ethernet to it. So what? How often do you install soft ware or an OS by DVD? Most software and soon backups are done online. Welcome to 2007, MM!

How about a Dock connector that has one?

Sebastian
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post #185 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post

It is time to expand our ideas of input beyond the keyboard. Most people do not like keyboards, no matter how efficient they are for word processing they may be. Most people not at work or geeking out online, do not need word processing to that level.

Now my assumption is that a subnotebook WOULD have a real keyboard, but the next new device will not.

I don't use a Keyboard mainly for Word Processing (not that I have a choice at the moment, NeoOffice keeps crashing every time I open it, and sometimes when I close it ), I'm very addicted to Quicksilver and TextMate. Hell, I'm teaching myself the Terminal a bit at a time, so prying me off a Keyboard would be like removing my Eyes and Ears. 8)

Multi Touch alone isn't going to do the trick. A Touch panel just isn't efficient enough for everyone, and nobody wants to remap every one of their keys (like that one Keyboard with removable keys) just to type and give commands.

Multi Touch with usable Speech to Text and System Level Speech Commands may work. But until you can get it system level for administration purposes (basic maintenance like Network management) then it's just not going to work yet. That's leaving out the amount of work you'd have to put in for Basic Human error correction.

I am however, willing to give up my Keyboard for a version of Quicksilver with Speech

Sebastian
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post #186 of 249
I'm going to violently change the direction here, so my apologies in advance.

I've noticed over the years that there is a great deal of enthusiasm here for a sub-notebook. Back in the day (as they say) there was a thread called Powerbook 2400 Dreams or what not. I've never really particpated in the topic, and haven't on this thread until now.

So here it is: I really don't understand the enthusiasm for such a product. I'm sure Apple has done their research and I'm not claiming it will fail, is not a good idea, etc. I just don't see it.

One of the prime arguments has been portability. That makes little sense to me as the Macbook is very portable and relatively light. I can see a pro model perhaps at that size. My ex had two ibooks...a G3 and a G4, and I just can't imagine the need for something even smaller and lighter.

Who this notebook is targeted at is an issue for me too. It can't possibly be powerful enough for a college student, as such a user is likely to want some half decent graphics capability, music and video storage, etc.

The only thing I can come up with is business users. Having a super light mobile work station might make sense for travelers. I know the article speculated on Japan, but it would seem odd for Apple to target one country with a major product like that.

Could someone elighten me on this further? What are the other markets? My apologies for not reading through the entire thread first.

Thanks

SDW
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post #187 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The only thing I can come up with is business users. Having a super light mobile work station might make sense for travelers. Thanks

SDW

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!! It is for the travler that needs portability (use your 15 MBP on an Airplane in Coach, I DARE ya!) or the business guy on the go. I am both.
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post #188 of 249
Quote:
If it's a Mac Book I'd want:
11'' Widescreen running 1280x800 (approximately)
1.66 GHz C2D
512MB Ram (however if its released with Leopard I'd suggest 1 GB.
Combo-drive
Ports: 2-USB 2.0, 1-FireWire 400, Power, expresscard 34, ethernet 10/100, Mini-DVI, kensigton security slot. I'm willing to lose a USB port if theres not enough room.
Price Point - $799.00

Well, I'd say these are reasonable specs. The combo-drive may or may not be present. However, I think your price estimate is all wrong. =( Smaller computers like this are costly, sorry to say, and I'd guess twice that.
Quote:
If its a Mac Book Pro:
13.3'' Widescreen 1280x900
2 GHz - 2.16 GHz C2D
1GB Ram
Superdrive
Ports: probably same as current MB ports but with addition of a firewire 800 port.
Price Point: 1699.00

I'd love to see this. I would really love to see this. I don't know if this would qualify as a subnotebook though. I think the rumor is referring to something more like the Sony TX series.

Quote:
Please make the glossy screen an option. not everyone likes them.

YES PLEASE! Honestly, I hate the glossy screen. Maximum anti-glare for me please. This is a computer for taking everywhere, hence people needing to able to see it as clearly as possible everywhere. I don't buy a small laptop for its incredible glossy colors to improve DVD viewing; that's what my TV and desktop are for.

Edited to add... A response to SDW. I think there are two different markets being represented on this thread.

The first is for the ultra-portable, super long battery life, no frills, ultralight workstation. This sort of computer usually has a ULV (ultra low voltage) processor, meaning no Core 2 Duo, no discrete graphics, and possibly no combo drive. This sort of computer will have a long battery life, weight around 3 lbs, be around an inch thick, and have an 11" screen or thereabouts. It will handle things like word processing, powerpoint presentations, and surfing the internet just fine. A good example is the Sony TX series. This is mainly for the business folks who travel light.

The other type of laptop that people seem to be after is what I'm in the market for. A smallish laptop that weighs about 4.5 lbs, has a 12" or 13" screen, discrete graphics, a powerful processor, and a superdrive. Think Dell M1210. I want a secondary computer that's light and has decent battery life, but I want to be able to do more intense things on it when I'm away. I'm willing to sacrifice a few hours battery life, a few lbs, and an inch or so to get the processor, superdrive, and graphics card.

I think that laptops of 12" or smaller are rarely going to be purchased as a primary computer; most people are going to get one to complement their desktop. I guess it comes down to if you are more interested in battery life and superlight weight, or slightly less portable power.

*shrugs*
post #189 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!! It is for the travler that needs portability (use your 15 MBP on an Airplane in Coach, I DARE ya!) or the business guy on the go. I am both.


Yeah, but you need something more portable than 13.3" Macbook?
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post #190 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

The only reason I ever used my Optical Drive was to get Xcode off the Install Discs.

However, for your Periphreals:
Bluetooth, WiFi, Bluetooth, and USB in that order

Sebastian


I will manage my peripherals, thanks.

 

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post #191 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yeah, but you need something more portable than 13.3" Macbook?

Read (a new concept?) the whole thread and you will see what we are discussing.

Anybody who has a job that requires them to travel a lot and give presentations needs something more portable than a MB. I had the PB 12 and it was too big.

Train and airplane travel can be quite cramped, not to mention some Tokyo coffee shops are standing room only on a typical afternoon.

Business hotels all have TVs that often have S cable connectors. Some newer hotels in Japan have LCD screens with HDMI connectors (aren't we lucky!). If you want to relax with a big screen, plug in. You are going too carry the cables anyways for your presentation.

Just give me portable power.

 

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post #192 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yeah, but you need something more portable than 13.3" Macbook?

Yeah. My 12" iBook G4 is too big, and I mean too big!! I dont need horsepower, just enough to get me by to present, edit doc's, dom some quotes, and write. Business crap that doesn't need a 24" iMac to look at!
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post #193 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

TOO THICK!!
My own Macbook is just over an inch thick, 3/4 of an Inch is too large, especially with a 12" screen. It takes the hold point of a Sub notebook away.
You're still suggesting Moving parts, and that's plain crazy. It even at 3/4" it would be too fragile. To make it successful it has to be really thin, but if it uses any parts that are too large for a thin environment then it just makes it fragile (another reason I decided against Moving parts)
Your idea suggest Santa Rosa, but you make no mention of WiMax. And there is no 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo.

Sebastian

The ULV 2.2 GHz chip I dreamt up isn't available yet since it's intended for the 800 MHz FSB of the Santa Rosa platform. An ultra low voltage chip affords a longer battery life but it's more expensive.

Another energy saving feature is Robson which uses some flash memory to save HD access time.

As for thickness, a standard Ethernet port is a hair more than 3/8" high. Maybe it can be 5/8" thin with the lid closed.
post #194 of 249
please, please, please, please make this subnote book have NO builtin camera.

it's been the major stumbling block to replacing my ibook w/
a more modern apple laptop.

camera's are simply verboten where i work
post #195 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Read (a new concept?) the whole thread and you will see what we are discussing.

Anybody who has a job that requires them to travel a lot and give presentations needs something more portable than a MB. I had the PB 12 and it was too big.

Train and airplane travel can be quite cramped, not to mention some Tokyo coffee shops are standing room only on a typical afternoon.

Business hotels all have TVs that often have S cable connectors. Some newer hotels in Japan have LCD screens with HDMI connectors (aren't we lucky!). If you want to relax with a big screen, plug in. You are going too carry the cables anyways for your presentation.

Just give me portable power.

Thanks for being an asshole right off the bat. I'm done with you.
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post #196 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Yeah. My 12" iBook G4 is too big, and I mean too big!! I dont need horsepower, just enough to get me by to present, edit doc's, dom some quotes, and write. Business crap that doesn't need a 24" iMac to look at!

Why is it too big? Too big for what?
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post #197 of 249
Cheddar:

Quote:
The other type of laptop that people seem to be after is what I'm in the market for. A smallish laptop that weighs about 4.5 lbs, has a 12" or 13" screen, discrete graphics, a powerful processor, and a superdrive. Think Dell M1210.

Or think...Macbook. Not much difference in what you described.
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post #198 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Cheddar:



Or think...Macbook. Not much difference in what you described.

Discrete Graphics is a big selling point for me. Macbook doesn't have that.

Put a proper graphics card in a 13.3" Macbook and I'll settle for that, though I'd prefer more ports and a slightly smaller screen size.
post #199 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'm going to violently change the direction here, so my apologies in advance.

I've noticed over the years that there is a great deal of enthusiasm here for a sub-notebook. Back in the day (as they say) there was a thread called Powerbook 2400 Dreams or what not. I've never really particpated in the topic, and haven't on this thread until now.

So here it is: I really don't understand the enthusiasm for such a product. I'm sure Apple has done their research and I'm not claiming it will fail, is not a good idea, etc. I just don't see it.

One of the prime arguments has been portability. That makes little sense to me as the Macbook is very portable and relatively light. I can see a pro model perhaps at that size. My ex had two ibooks...a G3 and a G4, and I just can't imagine the need for something even smaller and lighter.

Who this notebook is targeted at is an issue for me too. It can't possibly be powerful enough for a college student, as such a user is likely to want some half decent graphics capability, music and video storage, etc.

The only thing I can come up with is business users. Having a super light mobile work station might make sense for travelers. I know the article speculated on Japan, but it would seem odd for Apple to target one country with a major product like that.

Could someone elighten me on this further? What are the other markets? My apologies for not reading through the entire thread first.

Thanks

SDW

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I know exactly why I want one.

Imagine an ultra small ultra thin Notebook you can whip out ANYWHERE. It doesn't even have to be your Main computer, but a companion computer. Since it would have the basics of the Current Macbook family, Bluetooth EDR, WiFi, there would still be that no wires feeling, and more importantly, WiMax, so I might be able to connect to a decent Wireless service on the go without worrying about losing my connection. In fact, if I were to move from one WiMax network to the next, I believe one of the fundamental things about WiMax is that a change in networks on the go is Invisible, though I'm pulling a rather vague memory from something I read in CPU so I may not be entirely correct in that. But again, I expect by the next round of revisions, all Macbooks and Macbook Pros will have WiMax, while I don't believe Santa Rosa will make an appearence exactly as people think, they'll probably end up following the Santa Rosa Pardigm anyways, or most of it, and the single most important feature I can see on that is WiMax.

Currently ISPs are thinking about using it for the "Last Mile" for connecting people, and if this was city wide, then I would have an Ultra Portable Notebook, smaller and much easier to carry around then my Macbook that would have the power of Mac OS X.

The best part would be if it had no moving parts, HDDs are slow, and Optical Drives are near useless, and these are 2 of the most fragile things in any given Laptop. But with no HDD, the Battery life would also be saved. Sure it would have less storage, but I'd probably end up using it as a companion for another Mac, or as an extension of my network.

Now we're probably going to be going a bit into the psychological side of things. I simply hate being slowed down by ANYTHING! Whether it's slightly longer startup and load times, slightly slower connection speeds, or this damn wire I have to attach to my computer. A Dock connector and Optional Magsafe in my opinon would be a much better solution then having to unravel a wire and plugging it into a wall. Also there's the clumsiness of putting my Macbook in my Bag, taking it out, etc. And speaking of not being slowed down, I hate having to carry around anything more then I want. If I go somewhere with my Mac and spend more then 3 hours out, I have to carry my Magsafe with me. With longer battery times, I wouldn't have to constantly charge it.

Then there is the very idea of wires. Spending anymore time messing around with Wires then simply creating a network or adding something to a network is completely unnecessary. In a couple of weeks I was thinking of buying a USB hub and plugging all of my USB devices into that, then whenever I need to sync anyone of those Devices I could just plug one wire in and be done with it.

So an Ultraportable would do this for me:
It wouldn't slow me down by being too large
It wouldn't slow me down by being too heavy
It wouldn't slow me down by having to be carried in a Bag (with the sizes I'm talking about, I'd never consider it)
It wouldn't slow me down with an extra unneeded Wire (speaking of which, I was thinking of looking into Wireless Electricity, but I think even that requires an attachment)
It wouldn't slow me down looking for a WiFi network (because WiMax would serve this purpose better once it's widely deployed)
It wouldn't slow me down during Startup because it would be Flash based
It woudln't slow me down by needing to be charged every 3-4 hours or so
It wouldn't slow me down with this insane Multi Touch Panel that I can barely type on
It wouldn't slow me down by having more buttons then what is actually needed
It wouldn't slow me down by having Fragile and Unneeded Parts

The iPhone is already a Gift from Zeus and Odin, allowing me to be connected to my 2 main forms of Communication 100% of the time (Cell Phone and Email) and I won't have to fuss with Multiple Devices because it will also be my first iPod (unless I do end up opting for a Shuffle sometime soon... still not sure)

Sebastian
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post #200 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo View Post

The ULV 2.2 GHz chip I dreamt up isn't available yet since it's intended for the 800 MHz FSB of the Santa Rosa platform. An ultra low voltage chip affords a longer battery life but it's more expensive.

Another energy saving feature is Robson which uses some flash memory to save HD access time.

As for thickness, a standard Ethernet port is a hair more than 3/8" high. Maybe it can be 5/8" thin with the lid closed.

You know, I don't think you need an Ethernet port in this thing. It's come in handy only once, and that was when Apple screwed up with Software Update and I was force to change my 2WIRE settings over to WPA2 (which as it turns out is better then WEP) which I could've done on my PC but I was lazy and it was easier to just take the Ethernet cord from my Airport Express and change them.

Sebastian
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