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Apple to re-enter the sub-notebook market - Page 2

post #41 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:03am
Wow, it really sounds like Apple really has a lot of cool stuff coming up this year. In fact that was confirmed to me by an apple insider recently. When the computer worlds tends to go flat, Apple is always excited to re-engineer things. The best way to think about Apple in my opinion is: Apple bring integrated solutions for your digital life. If you think about it you will realize that they are not just into a piece of hardware, but into solutions that help digitalizing and improving your lifestyle. You can tell by the way their product is integrated and communicate with each other. And after dropping the word computer from their name, I am convinced that it means something serious...

I can't wait for the announcement that they have coming up next week.
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post #42 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by syklee26 View Post

my prediction for specs

core 2 duo 1.67ghz

1gb ram

32gb Flash drive (this might be split into two drives like typical Vaio notebooks)

no graphics card

10 inch wide screen

isight

2 USB, 1 FW400 (and maybe slots for memory cards)

Superdrive (probably not the DL)

LED based screen lighting

4 hr practical battery life (probably listed as "upto 7 hrs"

for the price of....$1999.

IT COSTS MORE TO STAY THIN. that's true for human beings as well as gadgets.

i like that pricepoint. it doesnt really cut into any other line's sales.

as for your specs, i mostly agree with them exept for the battery. apple is going to slam dunk this product, it is going to be almost perfect. they want to stun the world, so they will make an unbelievable product and im excited to see what the release.
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post #43 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post

This is a little off topic, but you guys can probably stop mentioning in every single article that Apple is based in Cupertino. We don't need the filler; just the news, please. Article's already long enough.

They're doing it for the search engines. Every keyword counts.
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post #44 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirSluf View Post

Yes, i agree with both of you. There is no where else for apple to go.

AS

Tablet?

C'mon, don't tell me Apple isn't thinking about it - the technology in the iPhone UI is just screaming for it. I see a Newton comeback in a few years, maybe sooner.
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post #45 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:28am
sthiede: I agree. Also, no moving parts (ie, no HD or CD) will certainly help the battery life.
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post #46 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

But sleep mode wastes the battery, no matter by how little. It makes me wonder by how much, though. Here's a good test: charge your notebook fully, put it to sleep and then unplug it. Come back in 24 hours and see what charge remains. Maybe I'll do that tonight.

Well right after I bought my Macbook, I accidently put it to sleep when I thought I shut it down (it turns out I put it to sleep in Mid Shutdown ) and came back in about 8 hours, and I think it dropped down to... well I don't think I lost any battery life actually. I can't quite remember though \

Sebastian
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #47 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I can't agree with that one. Very few people have such large hands that typing on these machines is difficult. They are vastly better than a PDA.

1) It has Windows
2) Who uses a PDA these days?

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #48 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by owen81chua View Post

vaio sz still lighter than any macbook or pro.
in fact. there's alot of notebook out there are slimmer and lighter than macbookz..
i think apple still didn't do well enuff for notebook.


The English Language has been DESTROYED!!!


Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #49 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:52am
I've been hammering on this point for the last... YEAR on my blog and other places for a long time. We need this in Japan - desperately. But I have to wonder what took so freaking long?

Japan is the number 2 consumer market in the world, and Apple is getting killed there. It's not just the infatuation with cute. It's the whole way we go to work - without cars. Sure, some people do drive but most of us use mass transportation. So, we gotta carry our laptops. Even the 12" G4 PowerBook is porky by Wintel standards.

To be honest, it doesn't have to have have NAND or all these other features to be light. The tech is already out there. But it should have come around nine months ago, not in June. That's the problem. Hopefully, my own 12" G4 will limp through the next couple months until this thing comes out.
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post #50 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:55am
I'm surprised no one mentioned Apple's patent on the bottom loading Superdrive.... ?

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #51 of 249
2/16/07 at 6:57am
Below are proposed specs:

11" Multitouch Widescreen with LED backlight
Light weight composite clam-shell casing
Intel Core 2 Duo 1.83GHz Mobile CPU
32 GB internal NAND Flash memory
1 GB RAM
64 MB Intel GMA chipset based GPU
Li-ion polymer battery with >5 hour runtime.

Connectivity:

WiFi
Bluetooth

2 x USB 2
1 x Firewire
DVI/VGA
Combined optical digital audio input/audio line in (minijack)
Combined optical digital audio output/headphone out (minijack)

Input Devices:

11" QWERTY keyboard
iSight
Multitouch display
Built-in omnidirectional microphone
Apple Remote

The new MacBook Mini will also have small built in stereo speakers and will come with a compact docking / charging station. Charging will also support MagSafe power adapters for mobile charging. No I didn't forget to mention the back loading CD/DVD drive because it won't have one.
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post #52 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:01am
I remember looking forward to owning a computer with a Hard Disk. Now I'm looking forward to one without one.
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post #53 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:05am
Hi Sebastian. Good to see you again.



So, what form factor does everyone think this thing will have?

A) tablet style with single screen that is touch-sensitive
B) clam-shell
C) slide out keyboard

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #54 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkaise View Post

>As a first order of business, Apple got cracking on localized versions of its "Get a Mac" television ads, which were warmly received by both Japanese consumers and the local media.

. No way.
In Japanese culture, which puts emphasis on the humbleness, advertisements that critisize or attack their opposites are not welcomed.
In Japan, even political parties avoid such TV ads during campaigns!

Really, some Japanese hate the Get a Mac ads, and Apple is being laughed at, not because the CM is funny, but because the company does not notice such ads are not effective, or can result in an adverse result here.

I hope Apple notice soon that "localization" shall include more than just translation.

Hey I am no expert on Japanese culture but from what you say and what I have seen of some Japanese idea of TV entertainment there must be a dual standard. They have the cruelest sense of humor in game shows I have ever seen. Apple ads seem tame next to making contestants crawl through tubes filled with slime and / or insects and so forth. I am not criticizing simply pointing out your generalization of the Japanese reaction to Apple ads doesn't seem to add up to me.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #55 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:08am
It will be of clam-shell design.

The tablet will another product all together.
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post #56 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:10am
Clamshell. This will be an extension of the MacBook line. The tablet mac will be an extension of the iPhone line running LeopardLite™
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post #57 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

I remember looking forward to owning a computer with a Hard Disk. Now I'm looking forward to one without one.

That's funny.

My first was a 'Profile 5 MB' on my Apple ///, wow, was that thing sweet. After years of three floppy disk drives on the Apple ][ I was in heaven with all that space
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #58 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Hi Sebastian. Good to see you again.



So, what form factor does everyone think this thing will have?

A) tablet style with single screen that is touch-sensitive
B) clam-shell
C) slide out keyboard

Hi Bergermeister, just been lurking about

I'm going to say a combination of Tablet, and Clam Shell on this one. I'm thinking about the Thinkpads actually. Hmmm, I'll have to give it more thought though.
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
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post #59 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

But I have to wonder what took so freaking long?

Hopefully Apple has been waiting for "Santa Rosa" to be released to take advantage of Intel's GMA X3000 integrated graphics processor.
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post #60 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Hey I am no expert on Japanese culture but from what you say and what I have seen of some Japanese idea of TV entertainment there must be a dual standard. They have the cruelest sense of humor in game shows I have ever seen. Apple ads seem tame next to making contestants crawl through tubes filled with slime and / or insects and so forth. I am not criticizing simply pointing out your generalization of the Japanese reaction to Apple ads doesn't seem to add up to me.

have you ever seen 'I'm a Celebrity - Get me out of here!' or 'Fear Factor'?
- some of those are pretty cruel - equal of any Japanese TV shows!


But, Japan is a mass of confusing contradictions - simultaneously Polite/Rude, Cute/Ugly, Kind/Cruel, Superficial/Multi-layered etc
- but I would be surprised if Apple didn't run the Japanese versions of the ads past some native Japanese to gauge reactions
- they'd be dumb not to!
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post #61 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

Japan is the number 2 consumer market in the world, and Apple is getting killed there. It's not just the infatuation with cute.

Clearly they should have come out with a Hello Kitty edition of the MacBook.

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     197619842013  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

MacBook Pro Retina, 13", 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD

iPhone 5 • iPad 4 • CR48 Chromebook • ThinkPad X220

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post #62 of 249
2/16/07 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai1999 View Post

have you ever seen 'I'm a Celebrity - Get me out of here!' or 'Fear Factor'?
- some of those are pretty cruel - equal of any Japanese TV shows!

Where do you think they got the idea for these types of shows? There have been such shows in Japan long before they showed up in the US. Most reality TV shows in the US are stolen, er, borowed from the UK and Japan.

     197619842013  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

MacBook Pro Retina, 13", 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD

iPhone 5 • iPad 4 • CR48 Chromebook • ThinkPad X220

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     197619842013  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

MacBook Pro Retina, 13", 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD

iPhone 5 • iPad 4 • CR48 Chromebook • ThinkPad X220

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post #63 of 249
2/16/07 at 8:06am
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post #64 of 249
2/16/07 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by syklee26 View Post

my prediction for specs

core 2 duo 1.67ghz

1gb ram

32gb Flash drive (this might be split into two drives like typical Vaio notebooks)

no graphics card

10 inch wide screen

isight

2 USB, 1 FW400 (and maybe slots for memory cards)

Superdrive (probably not the DL)

LED based screen lighting

4 hr practical battery life (probably listed as "upto 7 hrs"

for the price of....$1999.

IT COSTS MORE TO STAY THIN. that's true for human beings as well as gadgets.

$2000 and gma 950 that is a big ripoff next to other laptop systems. at least use a nvidia or ati card.
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post #65 of 249
2/16/07 at 8:33am
Guys, think about it..32gb of NAND memory would be awfully expensive.. I personally think they'll do this..

Core 2 Duo 2Ghz
1GB RAM
4GB NAND memory (Flash memory)
60GB 5400 HD
12 inch display
DVD-+RW drive on the bottom of the 12 inch MacBook
(preferably) LED Display (probably not)
And the rest of the current apple fancy stuff

and why do i suggest 4gb of NAND memory..couple of reason.

1. 32GB is way overprice and i don't think its ready for use as a main stream hard drive
2. 10.5 has ZFS... ZFS isn't bootable...but NAND memory is (1+1=...)
3. Remember hearing the rumor of Mac Pro's can only use 10.5... this would make sense seeing that 10.4 probably wouldn't see the NAND memory and if it did, it doesn't have a ZFS format option. And apple wouldn't want to add that option to 10.4 because they want to sell 10.5, not 10.4

What am I getting at? You install 10.5 of your 12 macbook, it see's the NAND memory.. installs a boot partition into the NAND(faster booting time)and formats your 60GB HD to ZFS..brand new top of the line file system thats the best out there(ATM). See now.. I think this is more logical for apple to make this move than a 32gb NAND harddrive.

Also 4gb of NAND would "just" be enough to install 10.5 completely on it.. (minus the language files/printer drivers)
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post #66 of 249
2/16/07 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I'll believe it when I see it.

...or hear a lot more reports about it.

I mean c'mon... Shaw Wu hasn't even touched this one.

Good point. DigiTimes is rubbish, on the other end, it seems as though If Walt Mossberg mentions it, it's pretty much a done deal. So we'll have to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syklee26 View Post

my prediction for specs
core 2 duo 1.67ghz

It would be smaller and a little lighter, but any system that uses the LV chips properly won't make much of a scratch in the Japanese market. They pay a premium for the 2-3lb notebooks, and an LV notebook is still around 4 to 5lb region. The systems that win the Japanese market are those that use the ULV chips, and as such, you aren't going to see the 1.66/1.87 GHz chips in a typical subnotebook using current chips. Use the proper chips for the device class, and 8hrs of actual run time would be realistic.
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post #67 of 249
2/16/07 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

$2000 and gma 950 that is a big ripoff next to other laptop systems. at least use a nvidia or ati card.

Out of curiosity, how many subnotes use discrete video chips? The ones I've seen are all integrated video. I think you simply don't have realistic expectations given the device class. Let's just say it to get it out of the way, you probably will never like the the subnotebook class of computers enough to actually buy one.
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post #68 of 249
2/16/07 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasMac View Post

I fall in the camp that believes Apple must increase it's range: 15.4 MacBook, MacBook with a dedicated graphics card, and yes, a smaller MacBook/Pro. Not that I believe in following others, but the PC world offers consumer laptops with 15 and 17" screens, at MacBook prices.

I would also like to see Apple provide docking capability for their 15 and 17 inch laptops. Docking stations are very popular with corporate users.
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post #69 of 249
2/16/07 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

So, what form factor does everyone think this thing will have?

A) tablet style with single screen that is touch-sensitive
B) clam-shell
C) slide out keyboard

I'm thinking Thinkpad X-Series, only with an 11.1" widescreen (so I guess, like the Sony TX-Series). This will not be a tablet (or even a convertable tablet): Apple's not going to fill everyone's dreams all in one product. I would also be surprised if the notebook did not have a hard drive. If it has flash memory, it will be used to augment the hard drive, storing that data that will allow less accesses to the hard drive. In the end, this product (if it really does exist) will be a little Macbook, not a large iPhone -- and so the functionality will follow from the computer end of the spectrum. And if you disagree, I would remind you that the article (which is all we have to go on, so we might as well have this lead our speculation) says,

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Also setting the new model aside from its existing counterparts, those same people say, may be the conspicuous absence of an optical disc drive. Although Apple's original plans for the notebook called for its inclusion, reports are that the daunting ergonomics have recently driven company engineers to make a concession...

You would not even think of putting an optical drive in a device like the Sony UX-Series; that you find one in the Sony TX-Series is amazing. This is about the size that Apple would have to compromise on whether it's worth having the optical drive.
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post #70 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortri View Post

Guys, think about it..32gb of NAND memory would be awfully expensive.. I personally think they'll do this..

Apple buys like half the world's flash supply. They get it at a massive discount. And if they can put 8 GB of it in a $250 iPod, they can put 16/32 in a MacBook. Flash costs Apple like $10 a GB or so, therefore at least 16 GB should be easy to get into a laptop, and 32 GB is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortri View Post

2. 10.5 has ZFS... ZFS isn't bootable...but NAND memory is (1+1=...)

That makes no sense whatsoever. You're equating a software issue with a hardware option. ZFS's boot issues have absolutely nothing to do with being on a hard drive or being on flash. Apple could just as easily stick their bootloader on a separate HDD partition.

And there's no evidence that 10.5 uses ZFS as its primary filesystem or even has that option. It just has support for ZFS. It might only use it for Time Machine drives or compatibility with some forthcoming Apple product that does use it.
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post #71 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post

Where do you think they got the idea for these types of shows? There have been such shows in Japan long before they showed up in the US. Most reality TV shows in the US are stolen, er, borowed from the UK and Japan.

Some of these off topic threads are fun ...

True (Archie Bunker amongst many others too, now that's cruelty to watch lol) but at least Simon didn't get ripped off... he learned from the past and brought Idol here himself (well with some help from the Murdochs)
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #72 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It would be smaller and a little lighter, but any system that uses the LV chips properly won't make much of a scratch in the Japanese market. They pay a premium for the 2-3lb notebooks, and an LV notebook is still around 4 to 5lb region. The systems that win the Japanese market are those that use the ULV chips, and as such, you aren't going to see the 1.66/1.87 GHz chips in a typical subnotebook using current chips. Use the proper chips for the device class, and 8hrs of actual run time would be realistic.

...

Quote:
Out of curiosity, how many subnotes use discrete video chips? The ones I've seen are all integrated video. I think you simply don't have realistic expectations given the device class. Let's just say it to get it out of the way, you probably will never like the the subnotebook class of computers enough to actually buy one.

It's funny that people think that they will be able to replace their desktop with a sub-notebook. The performance of any Apple sub-notebook will be like buying an old iBook G3, only, because it is utilising newer tech, it will be smaller, and have better battery life.
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post #73 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

They're seen as too arrogant by some here too.

Well yeah, 'cause they are. They try an make everyone SEEM humble, and this comes from talking to someone who is constantly going there for business. They really are quite arrogant, and it's just a game they play. Sortof like 'court behaviour', read Machiavelli's forward to the Medici Prince for an example
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post #74 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortri View Post

Core 2 Duo 2Ghz

You got to be kidding, right? Think more like 1.33GHz for a sub-notebook.
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post #75 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski View Post


And there's no evidence that 10.5 uses ZFS as its primary filesystem or even has that option. It just has support for ZFS. It might only use it for Time Machine drives or compatibility with some forthcoming Apple product that does use it.

Oh, I really hope ZFS is an option... 8)

My Airport Extreme has just fired up with it's USB external hard drive and all Macs on the network are working flawlessly. Not one problem in set up. It also allows something previous secondary routers haven't done (for me at least). My Extreme is running DHCP and attached to a Verizon FiOS router / wi-fi device via ethernet and Apple Extreme is quite happily letting me see and mount Macs on the FiOS wi-fi router. This solves what I expected to be an issue. I can simply switch any 11.g machines over to the FiOS wi-fi if and continue without any hassles if Apple TV is in use to preserve the 11.n networks purity when required.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #76 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortri View Post

...and why do i suggest 4gb of NAND memory..couple of reason.

1. 32GB is way overprice and i don't think its ready for use as a main stream hard drive

It would cost Apple about $300. I think that price is enabling.
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post #77 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmardian View Post

It would cost Apple about $300. I think that price is enabling.

So? The price to the customer will be $600. Gross margin is not net margin. Just keep in mind the current stable of flash-based notebooks. I can see it being a viable option if Apple doesn't automatically throw on all the software they can. A stock install on a MBP is about 30GB, at least that's what I saw on mine before I started transferring my system from another computer. I'm pretty sure that a 60, 80 or 100GB 1.8" hard drive would be faster and cheaper.
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post #78 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

You got to be kidding, right? Think more like 1.33GHz for a sub-notebook.

That's pretty much the kind of thing I've been trying to say. A subnote is a very different animal, you get a lighter, smaller machine that might run for 8 hours on a battery at the expense of money and speed. You are very unlikely to get multi-GHz, discrete graphics and other features on a full-size notebook because it isn't one.
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post #79 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

So? The price to the customer will be $600. Gross margin is not net margin. Just keep in mind the current stable of flash-based notebooks. I can see it being a viable option if Apple doesn't automatically throw on all the software they can. A stock install on a MBP is about 30GB, at least that's what I saw on mine before I started transferring my system from another computer. I'm pretty sure that a 60, 80 or 100GB 1.8" hard drive would be faster and cheaper.

If they announce it in June and it ships in August that's half a year of NAND flash price erosion. If you extrapolate the current price trend, that means it will cost about $200 instead of $300. How much do hard drives cost Apple? Probably $50. So the increase in price would be about $150. And the markup isn't 100%. It's around 45% (see iSupplie iMac tear-down). So the extra cost to the consumer will be about $215 - which is well worth it for the power, noise, and space savings.
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post #80 of 249
2/16/07 at 9:54am
My heart jumped after my daily Google for "new apple subnotebook 2007" yielded today's posting on Apple Insider. I eagerly read to get some HINT of a confirmed detail, and found nothing. My heart sank when I realized the post was a whole lotta nothing, talking about the good old days of my Powerbook Duo...with nothing concrete and a photoshopped image showing a mock-up of what the MacBook Nano might look like. I went to the forum to see if someone else had some details, and I see two pages of conjecture on what the specs will be. I thought the rumor community already went through that exercise prior to the MacWorld iPhone extravaganza. Surely someone in the world can give us some more concrete details! sheesh! THIS IS KILLING ME
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