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post #41 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No. Why?

I was just curios if our local demagogues/remote control warriors, speculating about "support military action against" Eastasia (or is it Eurasia?) have actually spent time in a besieged city bombed for several days and then stormed by tanks ... Because if they haven't, perhaps they should stick their head back in their a$$e$, and remain silent.
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post #42 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100mph View Post

I was just curios if our local demagogues/remote control warriors, speculating about "support military action against" Eastasia (or is it Eurasia?) have actually spent time in a besieged city bombed for several days and then stormed by tanks ... Because if they haven't, perhaps they should stick their head back in their a$$e$, and remain silent.

That's original. I just wanted to see you post it. Because, clearly, one can't support any military action or the military in general unless he's actually served. Gotcha.
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post #43 of 200
Islam was 800 years more advanced than the Christian West check it out

personally, while I feel Islam is well past its prime, perhaps its not terribly clever to blow the shit out of it, before we have learned all we can from it.

Contrast the 13th Century Islamic discovery of Penrose tiles (RE-discovered 1970) to Christians of 2007

Quote:
"I saw Jesus standing on top of the mast. (Cellphone Transmitter) He was standing between two people and was putting on a white cloth. His hair was black,"

For a start, when was Jesus' hair BLACK? FFS, everyone knows its golden just like Zeus, and what the fuck is he doing in Uganda? FFS, everyone knows when he's going to return, his first port of call is the Whitehouse.

And for hardeharhar - conclusive proof that EMF radiation effects peoples behavior....
post #44 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

Islam was 800 years more advanced than the Christian West check it out

This Article is Embargoed

And so are you for trying to access it - you have been identified as a Terrorist - step aside from the New Scientist - a Neutralization Team will be smashing your door down shortly - do not display impatience.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #45 of 200
Thread Starter 
Islamic Science

Islamic Inventions

Quote:
Flight

In 9th century Islamic Spain, Armen Firman invented the parachute, followed by Abbas Ibn Firnas who built one of the earliest gliders. Knowledge of their flying machines spread to other parts of Europe from Arabic references. According to Philip Hitti in History of the Arabs:
Ibn Firnas was the first man in history to make a scientific attempt at flying

Glass mirror

Glass mirrors were being used in Islamic Spain from the 11th century.

Mechanical devices

Al-Jazari described fifty mechanical devices in six different categories, including water clocks (one of his famous clocks were reconstructed successfully at the london Science Museum in 1976), combination locks, hand washing device, machines for raising water, double acting pumps with suction pipes and the use of a crank shaft in a machine, accurate calibration of orifices, lamination of timber to reduce warping, static balancing of wheels, use of paper models to establish a design, casting of metals in closed mould boxes with green sand, and more.

Clocks

Weight-driven mechanical clocks were produced by Muslim engineers in Spain, and this knowledge was transmitted to other parts of Europe through Latin translations of Islamic texts on mechanics. Accurate astronomical clocks were also constructed by Muslims for use in observatories. Al-Jazari invented some of the first mechanical clocks, driven by water and weights, including a water-powered scribe clock. This water powered portable clock was a metre high and half a metre wide. The scribe with his pen was synonymous to the hour hand of a modern clock. This is an example of an ingenious water system by al-Jazari.

Watch

According to Will Durant, Abbas Ibn Firnas invented a watch-like device in the 9th century which kept accurate time.

Pinhole camera

The ancient Greeks thought that eyes emitted rays, like a laser, which enabled us to see. The first person to realise that light enters the eye, rather than leaving it, was the 10th century Muslim mathematician, astronomer and physicist Ibn al-Haitham (Alhazen). He invented the first pinhole camera after noticing the way light came through a hole in window shutters. The smaller the hole, the better the picture, he worked out, and set up the first Camera Obscura (from the Arabic word qamara for a dark or private room). He is also credited with being the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one.[4]

Muslim Heritage
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #46 of 200
http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~matc/...sson6math.html


well it was an article about the Islamic discovery of the pattern (or something similar) above and how they used it in their architecture. Whats the Islamic name for it again??
post #47 of 200
Here we go again..Muslims were/are smart!

Of course they are. Did you also know that:

Three-quarters of 400 al-Qaeda members, “came from the upper or middle class. Ninety percent came from caring, intact families. Two-thirds had gone to college; two-thirds were married; and most had children and jobs in science and engineering,” discovered forensic psychiatrist Marc Sageman. In fact, he concludes that, "these are the best and brightest of their society."

Terrorists are the best and Brightest of Their World

Doesn't matter if they are intelligent. What matters is what their teachers (Imams) are teaching them to make them leave their family, their jobs and go off and become martyrs of Allah.

Similar in case with the USA ("Crusade"), Israelis or the Palestinians...it all boils down to good old time religions. Muslim, Christian and Jewish religious stupidity.

Most religious people just want to worship in peace but for some reason fundamentalists want to push their version of religion on everyone without question. There is the problem.

Sorry, went off topic. I think. Continue...
post #48 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Doesn't matter if they are intelligent. What matters is what their teachers (Imams) are teaching them to make them leave their family, their jobs and go off and become martyrs of Allah

But they are too stupid - and hyper intelligent - to see this right?

ANd are these the same Imams that taught Atta to drink, blaspheme, hang out with hookers and snort coke?

I guess so because that is in the 'Al Qaeda Undercover Operative's Handbook" section 23.a:

Quote:
Members of hidden sleeper cells must draw attention to themselves by breaking the laws of the infidels so that they come to the attention of the kaffir authorities before the scheduled time of any operation that has been planned for years....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #49 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

But they are too stupid - and hyper intelligent - to see this right?

ANd are these the same Imams that taught Atta to drink, blaspheme, hang out with hookers and snort coke?

I guess so because that is in the 'Al Qaeda Undercover Operative's Handbook" section 23.a:

You make a good point but the Imams probably spin this behavior off as the spoils of the Western World they had to subjucate themselves to carry out their mission.

Humans are one inch of world history. We are still morons believing in fairy tales.

BACK ON TOPIC.

I just found an article written by Douglas Herman, USAF veteran who predicted the aftermath of the attack on Iraq in his column Shock & Awe Followed by Block-To-Block.

Here it is:Day One - The War With Iran.

The war began as planned. The Israeli pilots took off well before dawn and streaked across Lebanon and northern Iraq, high above Kirkuk. Flying US-made F-15 and F-16s, the Israelis separated over the mountains of western Iran, the pilots gesturing a last minute show of confidence in their mission, maintaining radio silence.

Just before the sun rose over Tehran, moments before the Muslim call to prayer, the missiles struck their targets. While US Air Force AWACS planes circled overhead--listening, watching, recording--heavy US bombers followed minutes later. Bunker-busters and mini-nukes fell on dozens of targets while Iranian anti-aircraft missiles sped skyward.

The ironically named Bushehr nuclear power plant crumbled to dust. Russian technicians and foreign nationals scurried for safety. Most did not make it.

Targets in Saghand and Yazd, all of them carefully chosen many months before by Pentagon planners, were destroyed. The uranium enrichment facility in Natanz; a heavy water plant and radioisotope facility in Arak; the Ardekan Nuclear Fuel Unit; the Uranium Conversion Facility and Nuclear Technology Center in Isfahan; were struck simultaneously by USAF and Israeli bomber groups.

The Tehran Nuclear Research Center, the Tehran Molybdenum, Iodine and Xenon Radioisotope Production Facility, the Tehran Jabr Ibn Hayan Multipurpose Laboratories, the Kalaye Electric Company in the Tehran suburbs were destroyed.

Iranian fighter jets rose in scattered groups. At least those Iranian fighter planes that had not been destroyed on the ground by swift and systematic air strikes from US and Israeli missiles. A few Iranian fighters even launched missiles, downing the occasional attacker, but American top guns quickly prevailed in the ensuing dogfights.

The Iranian air force, like the Iranian navy, never really knew what hit them. Like the slumbering US sailors at Pearl Harbor, the pre-dawn, pre-emptive attack wiped out fully half the Iranian defense forces in a matter of hours.

By mid-morning, the second and third wave of US/Israeli raiders screamed over the secondary targets. The only problem now, the surprising effectiveness of the Iranian missile defenses. The element of surprise lost, US and Israeli warplanes began to fall from the skies in considerable numbers to anti-aircraft fire.

At 7:35 AM, Tehran time, the first Iranian anti-ship missile destroyed a Panamanian oil tanker, departing from Kuwait and bound for Houston. Launched from an Iranian fighter plane, the Exocet split the ship in half and set the ship ablaze in the Strait of Hormuz. A second and third tanker followed, black smoke billowing from the broken ships before they blew up and sank. By 8:15 AM, all ship traffic on the Persian Gulf had ceased.

US Navy ships, ordered earlier into the relative safety of the Indian Ocean, south of their base in Bahrain, launched counter strikes. Waves of US fighter planes circled the burning wrecks in the bottleneck of Hormuz but the Iranian fighters had fled.

At 9 AM, Eastern Standard Time, many hours into the war, CNN reported a squadron of suicide Iranian fighter jets attacking the US Navy fleet south of Bahrain. Embedded reporters aboard the ships--sending live feeds directly to a rapt audience of Americans just awakening--reported all of the Iranian jets destroyed, but not before the enemy planes launched dozens of Exocet and Sunburn anti-ship missiles. A US aircraft carrier, cruiser and two destroyers suffered direct hits. The cruiser blew up and sank, killing 600 men. The aircraft carrier sank an hour later.

By mid-morning, every military base in Iran was partially or wholly destroyed. Sirens blared and fires blazed from hundreds of fires. Explosions rocked Tehran and the electrical power failed. The Al Jazeerah news station in Tehran took a direct hit from a satellite bomb, leveling the entire block.

At 9:15 AM, Baghdad time, the first Iranian missile struck the Green Zone. For the next thirty minutes a torrent of missiles landed on GPS coordinates carefully selected by Shiite militiamen with cell phones positioned outside the Green Zone and other permanent US bases. Although US and Israeli bomber pilots had destroyed 90% of the Iranian missiles, enough Shahabs remained to fully destroy the Green Zone, the Baghdad airport, and a US Marine base. Thousands of unsuspecting US soldiers died in the early morning barrage. Not surprisingly, CNN and Fox withheld the great number of casualties from American viewers.

By 9:30 AM, gas stations on the US east coast began to raise their prices. Slowly at first and then altogether in a panic, the prices rose. $4 a gallon, and then $5 and then $6, the prices skyrocketed. Worried motorists, rushing from work, roared into the nearest gas station, radios blaring the latest reports of the pre-emptive attack on Iran. While fistfights broke out in gas stations everywhere, the third Middle Eastern war had begun.

In Washington DC, the spin began minutes after the first missile struck its intended target. The punitive strike--not really a war said the harried White House spokesman--would further democracy and peace in the Middle East. Media pundits mostly followed the party line. By ridding Iran of weapons of mass destruction, Donald Rumsfeld declared confidently on CNN, Iran might follow in the footsteps of Iraq, and enjoy the hard won fruits of freedom.

The president scheduled a speech at 2 PM. Gas prices rose another two dollars before then. China and Japan threatened to dump US dollars. Gold rose $120 an ounce. The dollar plummeted against the Euro.

CNN reported violent, anti-American protests in Paris, London, Rome, Berlin and Dublin. Fast food franchises throughout Europe, carrying American corporate logos, were firebombed.

A violent coup toppled the pro-American Pakistan president. On the New York Stock Exchange, prices fell in a frenzy of trading--except for the major petroleum producers. A single, Iranian Shahab missile struck Tel Aviv, destroying an entire city block. Israel vowed revenge, and threatened a nuclear strike on Tehran, before a hastily called UN General Assembly in New York City eased tensions.

An orange alert in New York City suddenly reddened to a full-scale terror alarm when a package detonated on a Manhattan subway. Mayor Bloomberg declared martial law. Governor Pataki ordered the New York National Guard fully mobilized, mobilizing what few national guardsmen remained in the state.

President Bush looked shaken at 2 PM. The scroll below the TV screen reported Persian Gulf nations halting production of oil until the conflict could be resolved peacefully. Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, announced a freeze in oil deliveries to the US would begin immediately. Tony Blair offered to mediate peace negotiations, between the US and Israel and Iran, but was resoundingly rejected.

By 6 PM, Eastern Standard Time, gas prices had stabilized at just below $10 a gallon. A Citgo station in Texas, near Fort Sam Houston Army base, was firebombed. No one claimed responsibility. Terrorism was not ruled out.

At sunset, the call to prayer--in Tehran, Baghdad, Islamabad, Ankara, Jerusalem, Jakarta, Riyadh--sounded uncannily like the buzzing of enraged bees.
post #50 of 200
When put like that, an attack on Iran seems like such a good thing, and that isn't sarcasm.
post #51 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

When put like that, an attack on Iran seems like such a good thing, and that isn't sarcasm.

The only thing I would pull out of this scenario is this:

"An orange alert in New York City suddenly reddened to a full-scale terror alarm when a package detonated on a Manhattan subway. Mayor Bloomberg declared martial law. Governor Pataki ordered the New York National Guard fully mobilized, mobilizing what few national guardsmen remained in the state."

In some ways I would think this would happen before we'd attack...
post #52 of 200
still, it a shame the only thing people would actually care about is the price of Oil
post #53 of 200
I could buy tickets to watch you morons go back and forth.
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post #54 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I could buy tickets to watch you morons go back and forth.



post #55 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That's original. I just wanted to see you post it. Because, clearly, one can't support any military action or the military in general unless he's actually served. Gotcha.

You are still posting on the topic?
Relocate with your family to Mogadishu for a year or two, then we'll talk.
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post #56 of 200
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/6389157.stm

the original NS article is back, and the story is hitting the web on quite a few sites.
post #57 of 200
Tick. Tick. Tick...

" Israel seeks all clear for Iran air strike"
post #58 of 200
US accused of drawing up plan to bomb Iran

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story...src=rss&feed=1

Quote:
President George Bush has charged the Pentagon with devising an expanded bombing plan for Iran that can be carried out at 24 hours' notice, it was reported yesterday.
An extensive article in the New Yorker magazine by the investigative journalist Seymour Hersh describes the contingency bombing plan as part of a general overhaul by the Bush administration of its policy towards Iran....

That new strategy, intended to reverse the rise in Iranian power that has been an unintended consequence of the war in Iraq, could bring the countries much closer to open confrontation and risks igniting a regional sectarian war between Shia and Sunni Muslims, the New Yorker says.
Elements of the tough new approach towards Tehran outlined by Hersh include:

· Clandestine operations against Iran and Syria, as well as the Hizbullah movement in Lebanon - even to the extent of bolstering Sunni extremist groups that are sympathetic to al-Qaida

· Sending US special forces into Iranian territory in pursuit of Iranian operatives, as well as to gather intelligence

· Secret operations are being funded by Saudi Arabia to avoid scrutiny by Congress. "There are many, many pots of black money, scattered in many places and used all over the world on a variety of missions," Hersh quotes a Pentagon consultant as saying.

As in the run-up to the Iraq war, the vice-president, Dick Cheney, has bypassed other administration officials to take charge of the aggressive new policy, working along with the deputy national security adviser, Elliott Abrams, and the former ambassador to Kabul and Baghdad, Zalmay Khalilzad.

Of course everything the US has done and intends to do in middle east over the last 40 years is not terrorism as they are on the side of good against evil. Mutherfsckers.


We have classic tactic here put up a BIG barrier so that there is no DANGER in having negotiations (see. Iraq and Palestine). Demonize the other side. Pretend that all other avenues have been exhausted and pre-emitive action is the only rational course of action.

Result: Bomb the fsck out of another state and call it giving freedom.

Result 2: Said state now left in anarchy - with little power to resist US exploitation.

Such as: Iraq poised to hand control of oil fields to foreign firms

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/busin...src=rss&feed=1

Quote:
Baghdad is under pressure from Britain and the US to pass an oil law which would hand long-term control of Iraq's energy assets to foreign multinationals, according to campaigners.
Iraqi trades unions have called for the country's oil reserves - the second-largest in the world - to be kept in public hands. But a leaked draft of the oil law, seen by The Observer, would see the government sign away the right to exploit its untapped fields in so-called exploration contracts, which could then be extended for more than 30 years....
post #59 of 200
People are making a big mistake in thinking all these policys are coming from 1 or two govts, they are not. They are coming from multinational corporations with no borders,no rules and govts are simply tools to be manipulated and directed. Our problem in the U.S is that the few in power Bush/Cheney and republicans work for these same corporations just as many others do across this planet.
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post #60 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora View Post

People are making a big mistake in thinking all these policys are coming from 1 or two govts, they are not. They are coming from multinational corporations with no borders,no rules and govts are simply tools to be manipulated and directed. Our problem in the U.S is that the few in power Bush/Cheney and republicans work for these same corporations just as many others do across this planet.

A Clinton Presidency would solve all that though!
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post #61 of 200
Only if you say so though Im not a democrat, but on a side note I doubt many would be upset if we woke up the next day and read that Irans Nuclear installations have been wiped out. Iran shouldnt be allowed to have these things and its far easier to do something now vs later. Iran saying its only for energy is like Bush saying Iraq has WMDs. All fud, all lies. This would be one thing that would help Bush Co's sorry poll numbers.
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post #62 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

A Clinton Presidency would solve all that though!

No. Let's not live in the past or make believe "what if...?"

What is this administration doing, right now? This president and especially this vice president?
post #63 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora View Post

People are making a big mistake in thinking all these policys are coming from 1 or two govts, they are not. They are coming from multinational corporations with no borders,no rules and govts are simply tools to be manipulated and directed. Our problem in the U.S is that the few in power Bush/Cheney and republicans work for these same corporations just as many others do across this planet.


Last sensible President US had wrt to middle east was Carter.

Without him you wouldn't have got the peace deal between Israel and Egypt and Jordan. It only occurred because he was prepared to stand-up to the Israelis and force them to move (on settlements etc). Also I take my hat off to him for declaring (at the time) that the then new illegal settlement (colonization) towns in the west bank should be torn down - clearly identifying the obvious malignant intent with which they were constructed - and from whom the majority of the regions problems still originate today.

However, in the weird world of US this guy is apparently the worst president ever. LOL!

The blood thirsty US nation prefers to support and herald those responsible for many a regime change/war/terror in South America/South East Asia/Middle East. Or plumps for an idiot parrot a la Regan/Bush
post #64 of 200
Title: US generals ‘will quit’ if Bush orders Iran attack...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1434540.ece


Quote:
SOME of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.

Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.

“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. “There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible.”

A British defence source confirmed that there were deep misgivings inside the Pentagon about a military strike. “All the generals are perfectly clear that they don’t have the military capacity to take Iran on in any meaningful fashion. Nobody wants to do it and it would be a matter of conscience for them.

“There are enough people who feel this would be an error of judgment too far for there to be resignations.”

A generals’ revolt on such a scale would be unprecedented. “American generals usually stay and fight until they get fired,” said a Pentagon source. Robert Gates, the defence secretary, has repeatedly warned against striking Iran and is believed to represent the view of his senior commanders.

The threat of a wave of resignations coincided with a warning by Vice-President Dick Cheney that all options, including military action, remained on the table. He was responding to a comment by Tony Blair that it would not “be right to take military action against Iran”.

Quote:

But General Peter Pace, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said recently there was “zero chance” of a war with Iran. He played down claims by US intelligence that the Iranian government was responsible for supplying insurgents in Iraq, forcing Bush on the defensive.

Pace’s view was backed up by British intelligence officials who said the extent of the Iranian government’s involvement in activities inside Iraq by a small number of Revolutionary Guards was “far from clear”.

Hillary Mann, the National Security Council’s main Iran expert until 2004, said Pace’s repudiation of the administration’s claims was a sign of grave discontent at the top.

“He is a very serious and a very loyal soldier,” she said. “It is extraordinary for him to have made these comments publicly, and it suggests there are serious problems between the White House, the National Security Council and the Pentagon.”

Mann fears the administration is seeking to provoke Iran into a reaction that could be used as an excuse for an attack. A British official said the US navy was well aware of the risks of confrontation and was being “seriously careful” in the Gulf.

The US air force is regarded as being more willing to attack Iran. General Michael Moseley, the head of the air force, cited Iran as the main likely target for American aircraft at a military conference earlier this month.
post #65 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerDigby View Post

US accused of drawing up plan to bomb Iran

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story...src=rss&feed=1



Of course everything the US has done and intends to do in middle east over the last 40 years is not terrorism as they are on the side of good against evil. Mutherfsckers.


We have classic tactic here put up a BIG barrier so that there is no DANGER in having negotiations (see. Iraq and Palestine). Demonize the other side. Pretend that all other avenues have been exhausted and pre-emitive action is the only rational course of action.

Result: Bomb the fsck out of another state and call it giving freedom.

Result 2: Said state now left in anarchy - with little power to resist US exploitation.

Such as: Iraq poised to hand control of oil fields to foreign firms

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/busin...src=rss&feed=1





Of course there is a plan. The US Gov would be delinquent not to have a plan.
"some catch on faster than others"
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post #66 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski View Post

Of course there is a plan. The US Gov would be delinquent not to have a plan.

The plan is, of course, VICTORY! OMG, Southside, you are priceless.
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post #67 of 200
There are lots of plans. China, NK, Ven and so on. Need plans. Plans don't mean impending war.
"some catch on faster than others"
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post #68 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerDigby View Post

Last sensible President US had wrt to middle east was Carter.

Without him you wouldn't have got the peace deal between Israel and Egypt and Jordan. It only occurred because he was prepared to stand-up to the Israelis and force them to move (on settlements etc). Also I take my hat off to him for declaring (at the time) that the then new illegal settlement (colonization) towns in the west bank should be torn down - clearly identifying the obvious malignant intent with which they were constructed - and from whom the majority of the regions problems still originate today.

However, in the weird world of US this guy is apparently the worst president ever. LOL!

The blood thirsty US nation prefers to support and herald those responsible for many a regime change/war/terror in South America/South East Asia/Middle East. Or plumps for an idiot parrot a la Regan/Bush

Carter was an abject failure of a President in nearly every respect. His incompetence is half the reason the middle east looks like it does today.
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post #69 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerDigby View Post

Title: US generals will quit if Bush orders Iran attack...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1434540.ece

Unsubstantiated crap.
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post #70 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Unsubstantiated crap.

That's true - Bush has already sacked any personnel with a brain or conscience (those with both never made it in the first place) so I guess the Generals will be chomping at the bit to start sticking decals of turbans on the side of the tanks.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #71 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

That's true - Bush has already sacked any personnel with a brain or conscience (those with both never made it in the first place) so I guess the Generals will be chomping at the bit to start sticking decals of turbans on the side of the tanks.

Uhh..that point aside, it's unsubstantiated crap.
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post #72 of 200
Quote:
Carter was an abject failure of a President in nearly every respect. His incompetence is half the reason the middle east looks like it does today.


Post some of your versions of historical facts to back up your theory relating to Middle-East History. tia ;-)
post #73 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerDigby View Post

Post some of your versions of historical facts to back up your theory relating to Middle-East History. tia ;-)

My "version" is that Carter was one of the worst Presidents this nation has ever had. The economy was terrible...he did nothing about it. The Iranian revolution happened and hostages were taken...he ordered an impotent rescue attempt ending with a smoking helicopter in the desert. He backed off the Soviets as they invaded Afghanistan. Military morale was at all time low. He was Mr. Malaise from a personal standpoint. Oh, and I'm pretty sure he is and was an anti-semite.

Have a nice evening.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #74 of 200
The left is just chomping at the bit for something to happen in Iran. If we awake to news of an escalation with Iran, the liberals will be dancing in the streets.
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #75 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski View Post

The left is just chomping at the bit for something to happen in Iran. If we awake to news of an escalation with Iran, the liberals will be dancing in the streets.

OMG YOU CRACK ME UP!!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #76 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

OMG YOU CRACK ME UP!!



but I'm right. Just like you get that little rush everytime a bomb goes of in Iraq.
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #77 of 200
Douglas Herman's scenario seems pretty fanciful. The odds of even this president using mini-nukes is zero. The odds that even this president would attack a country supplying oil to China is zero.

There are also some fanciful technical details. I really doubt the Iranians have air-launched Sunburns. I don't believe the Russians ever deployed the Moskit and you only get one per aircraft.

Nice missile though. Big beastie and fast. Give Aegis a run for the money for sure...which is why the Navy aint going to be anywhere close to the straits (100 miles) or in the gulf with the Iranians have preplaced launch pads all over the place. If the Iranians managed to buy Yakhonts that's even worse. Iffy. The Russians don't REALLY want a cold war with the US again.

So again, not even this President is dumb enough for war with Iran.

Vinea
post #78 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Douglas Herman's scenario seems pretty fanciful. The odds of even this president using mini-nukes is zero. The odds that even this president would attack a country supplying oil to China is zero.

There are also some fanciful technical details. I really doubt the Iranians have air-launched Sunburns. I don't believe the Russians ever deployed the Moskit and you only get one per aircraft.

Nice missile though. Big beastie and fast. Give Aegis a run for the money for sure...which is why the Navy aint going to be anywhere close to the straits (100 miles) or in the gulf with the Iranians have preplaced launch pads all over the place. If the Iranians managed to buy Yakhonts that's even worse. Iffy. The Russians don't REALLY want a cold war with the US again.

So again, not even this President is dumb enough for war with Iran.

Vinea

It's not a question of "dumb enough." It's a question of whether or not there is an option other than allowing them to develop a nuke. I believe that if diplomacy continues to go nowhere and we believe that they are developing a nuke, Bush will order a strike before he leaves office. Hate it, love it, whatever...that's what seems likely.

As for Iranian retaliation: They'll try, but there will be no sinking aircraft carriers or destroyers. You can be your bottom dollar the military will be prepared for anti-ship missiles. I also doubt the Iranians have anything that can hit a US ship at those distances.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #79 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

It's not a question of "dumb enough." It's a question of whether or not there is an option other than allowing them to develop a nuke. I believe that if diplomacy continues to go nowhere and we believe that they are developing a nuke, Bush will order a strike before he leaves office. Hate it, love it, whatever...that's what seems likely. ..
... ...

I have got an idea.
How about starting some negotiations? We all know this is what Iran wants.

US we want negotiations, but first Iran must
(i) stop developing it's own technology.
(ii) drop its draws and bend over for some Uncle sam action.

Everyone else in the world knows it's bullshit: Iran stops it's nuclear (power) program, US says OK prove it. Wait for 6 months. US says OK maybe we can discus about this in 2009 when we are convinced more thoroughly of Irans intentions.
post #80 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

It's not a question of "dumb enough." It's a question of whether or not there is an option other than allowing them to develop a nuke. I believe that if diplomacy continues to go nowhere and we believe that they are developing a nuke, Bush will order a strike before he leaves office. Hate it, love it, whatever...that's what seems likely.

As for Iranian retaliation: They'll try, but there will be no sinking aircraft carriers or destroyers. You can be your bottom dollar the military will be prepared for anti-ship missiles. I also doubt the Iranians have anything that can hit a US ship at those distances.

Well they certainly have Silkworms. And they should have a few Sunburns if they got sold some the same time the Chinese picked up a few. And unlike us the Iranians don't likely care about collateral damage so if they can get a decent OTH solutions they'll launch em and let the missiles hit what they find. Whether they sink anything will depend on luck. Leakers can always happen and unlike the west the Soviets built their missiles big. They need to only get a little lucky and for us to get a little unlucky to have a bad headline on CNN if they really have operational Sunburns.

Betting that your untested weapon system works as designed against their untested weapon system is a good way for losing some ships if you have a bad day.

A nuclear Iran isn't all that different than a nuclear Pakistan. There's no certainty they'll ever use one. And they aren't dumb enough to just hand one off to jihadists because they have no more desire to glow than we do. Unlike terrorists Tehran is easy to find.

We DO know that China has nukes and Iran is the second largest source of oil for China.

There's no bleeding way even someone with as questionable judgement as our President will order a strike on Iran. A nuclear Iran we can live with. Pre-emptive unilateral strike on a country strategic to a nuclear nation that's one of our biggest trading partners not so much.

If nothing else, China will invade Taiwan and dare us to respond. We won't and we'll look like bigger idiots and a failed world power. Which at that point we will be as much as France and the UK were at Suez. Historians will point to this and say "This is where the US stopped being a world power"...that's if we're lucky and they won't point at Iraq and say that already.

You and other "conservatives" may be dumb enough to hope your kids grow up in a declining world power. I'm not. Much more of the old guard "conservatives" that figure denying reality doesn't work well and winning a peace a more profitable deal in the long run for everyone.

Vinea
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