AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Next Generation Intel Platform (Santa Rosa)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Next Generation Intel Platform (Santa Rosa)

post #1 of 29
2/25/07 at 1:22pm
Thread Starter 
TG Daily reports that Intel's next generation mobile platform, code-named Santa Rosa, is currently tracking for a May release.

The platform will feature many improvements over today's incarnation found in the iMac, MacBook, and MacBook Pro. While the processor will remain of the Core 2 Duo "Merom" variety and will top out at 2.4 GHz, the front side bus speed will be increased to 800 MHz.

Also, systems that use integrated graphics (MacBook, Mac Mini) will stand to see a big boost from Intel's latest graphics technology. The GMA X3000 will implement several important graphics features in hardware and support pixel and vertex shader models 3.0, whereas GMA 950 only supports pixel shader model 2.0. This improvement will no doubt be a boost for casual gamers and for Apple's desire to include even more impressive visual effects in their systems.

Lastly, Santa Rosa will feature Intel's flash caching technology, code-named Robson. The technology should bring better system performance, especially in the areas of battery life, system startup, and access of frequently used applications.


- That said, i wonder how much the pricing for the MacBook are going to be...$1399.99 starting price anyone??
Reply
Reply
post #2 of 29
2/25/07 at 1:42pm
The imac needs a desktop chip set and $1300 for a laptop with shared video ram?
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 29
2/25/07 at 1:51pm
i'm not very good at video cards and stuff so how much faster would this be ? than the current macbooks integrated videocard of 64mb
MacBook Pro
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive@5400rpm
SuperDrive 8x
15" Glossy Widescreen Display

with a wireless Apple keyboard

and

iPod Touch
8GB
Reply
MacBook Pro
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive@5400rpm
SuperDrive 8x
15" Glossy Widescreen Display

with a wireless Apple keyboard

and

iPod Touch
8GB
Reply
post #4 of 29
2/25/07 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

The imac needs a desktop chip set and $1300 for a laptop with shared video ram?

The iMac is essentially a Laptop in Desktop form.

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
Reply
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
Reply
post #5 of 29
2/25/07 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-Myster View Post

i'm not very good at video cards and stuff so how much faster would this be ? than the current macbooks integrated videocard of 64mb

It is a faster on board video card.
Intel should copy ati and nvidia and give it some of own ram and take the rest from system ram like that low end ati and nvidia cards.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 29
2/25/07 at 5:18pm
Nothing wrong with Santa Rosa, but I don't think it is worth waiting for like many are. Most of the improvements look like they'll be modest. Time will tell but I'm glad I got my MBP when it got Merom.
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 29
2/26/07 at 2:17am
Nothing wrong with Santa Rosa or Penryn or whatever. But I presently have a 1.42 GHz G4 Mac mini and my rule of thumb is to upgrade only to double my GHz -- Moore's Law (18 months or so). So despite the bells and whistles... I wait and wait for a 3.0 GHz C?D mini.
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 29
2/26/07 at 4:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggy05 View Post

Nothing wrong with Santa Rosa or Penryn or whatever. But I presently have a 1.42 GHz G4 Mac mini and my rule of thumb is to upgrade only to double my GHz -- Moore's Law (18 months or so). So despite the bells and whistles... I wait and wait for a 3.0 GHz C?D mini.

The Mini already has >3 Ghz: 2 * 1.83 Ghz == 3.66 Ghz. If you're waiting for a 3+ Ghz Core ? CPU, I think you may be in for a lo-o-ong wait... currently, CPU technology seems to be moving away from high GHz towards more cores, AFAIK.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 29
2/26/07 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Nothing wrong with Santa Rosa, but I don't think it is worth waiting for like many are. Most of the improvements look like they'll be modest. Time will tell but I'm glad I got my MBP when it got Merom.

I disagree, WiMax is actually worth waiting for, and Robson as well. The rest is just extra fluff.

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
Reply
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
Reply
post #10 of 29
2/26/07 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

I disagree, WiMax is actually worth waiting for, and Robson as well. The rest is just extra fluff.

Sebastian

Well WiMax may be great but I think we're a few years away from widespread adoption of this. Robson may be nice, we'll just have to see. I think the biggest improvement will be the better integrated graphics. I think that may greatly benefit the Macs that uses intel IG.
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 29
2/26/07 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by philby View Post

The Mini already has >3 Ghz: 2 * 1.83 Ghz == 3.66 Ghz. If you're waiting for a 3+ Ghz Core ? CPU, I think you may be in for a lo-o-ong wait... currently, CPU technology seems to be moving away from high GHz towards more cores, AFAIK.

There will soon be a 2.6 GHz Merom, the X7800. That will probably go in the MBP and/or high-end iMacs. Penryn will most probably go above 3 GHz since it will consume much less power with Intel's new high-K and metal gates 45nm process. Penryn has been already pulled in to 2H 07, although there's speculation that it will be used first for the Xeons to counter AMD's new K10 Barcelona chip. Those Xeons will go into the Mac Pro.

Edit: last sentence. The Mac Pro might be refreshed first with Clovertowns.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 29
2/26/07 at 7:55am
Now a 2.6 ghz Merom might be worth waiting for. I just don't see the 2.4 ghz Santa Rosa being even 10% faster than the 2.3 ghz Merom one can get now.
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 29
2/26/07 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Now a 2.6 ghz Merom might be worth waiting for. I just don't see the 2.4 ghz Santa Rosa being even 10% faster than the 2.3 ghz Merom one can get now.

Yeah. Even 1.6 GHz is respectable with Merom. Santa Rosa isn't a high-end platform though. The reason many people want it is the faster, more capable IGP (with DirectX 10 support for Windows). Intel also open sourced the OpenGL drivers for the X3000 and I imagine Apple might benefit from that as well for its own drivers.
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 29
2/26/07 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Well WiMax may be great but I think we're a few years away from widespread adoption of this. Robson may be nice, we'll just have to see. I think the biggest improvement will be the better integrated graphics. I think that may greatly benefit the Macs that uses intel IG.

Well WiMax in Laptops as an industry standard is the first step towards Widespread adoption of it, and that in itself is quite important, and within a year WiMax will be spreading rapidly. This is the year the infrastructure takes off and makes it one of the most important technologies in a laptop by 2008.

Which means by the time I'm shopping for a new Laptop, WiMax will be widespread.

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
Reply
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
Reply
post #15 of 29
2/26/07 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Now a 2.6 ghz Merom might be worth waiting for. I just don't see the 2.4 ghz Santa Rosa being even 10% faster than the 2.3 ghz Merom one can get now.

Don't forget that Santa Rosa will have a 800 FSB vs the current 667 FSB on Napa. This may lead to an overall faster system than just the bump in clock. High-end models may also receive some Robson cache... So you may get more than you think when iMacs and MacBook Pros get Santa Rosa. I believe they will be released at the WWDC, given that Intel said the chips would be shipping in May.

For Penryn, the mobile versions are not expected until early 2008, but they will feature a nice increase in speed (+3.0GHz) and a faster FSB up to 1066, so we are on for another major speedbump for early 2008. As far as I know the first Penryn chips will be Xeons (quad-cores), early Q4 2007, then desktop chips (quad and dual cores), late Q4 2007.
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 29
2/26/07 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Now a 2.6 ghz Merom might be worth waiting for. I just don't see the 2.4 ghz Santa Rosa being even 10% faster than the 2.3 ghz Merom one can get now.

While a 2.4 GHz C2D is only 3% faster than a 2.33, the 800 MHz FSB of Santa Rosa is 20% faster than the 667 MHz of the current MBP. Add to that the benefits of Robson and you have a new MBP that's significantly faster overall with much improved battery life.

The 2.6 GHz chip is 8.3% faster than the 2.4 GHz chip but costs a lot more. Maybe the 2.4 will be Apple's low end MBP and the 2.6 will be the high end.
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 29
2/26/07 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo View Post

While a 2.4 GHz C2D is only 3% faster than a 2.33, the 800 MHz FSB of Santa Rosa is 20% faster than the 667 MHz of the current MBP. Add to that the benefits of Robson and you have a new MBP that's significantly faster overall with much improved battery life.

The 2.6 GHz chip is 8.3% faster than the 2.4 GHz chip but costs a lot more. Maybe the 2.4 will be Apple's low end MBP and the 2.6 will be the high end.

I hear what you're saying Rolo, but I think that the '20% faster' will only be for a few benchmarks where access to cache is critical. For most tests I doubt you'll see much difference. BTW I don't think that Santa Rosa will be bad, I just don't see a big advantage of waiting for new machines that have the Santa Rosa platform. The only exception may be Macs that use Intel IG as the x3000 may be a big improvement over GMA 950. There are lots of folks waiting for Santa Rosa before they get a MBP. I wouldn't wait I'd get one now.
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 29
2/26/07 at 8:55pm
Backtomac,

I am the guiltiest party when it comes to waiting for new hardware. I've had the money but have been holding out for so long (i'm on a 1.25ghz 15" pb). After reading the specs on Santa Rosa, I'm confidently buying a 2.33 MBP this week without being scared of it being totally obsolete during the next rev. The only way I could possibly get screwed, IMO, is if apple releases the next MBP with a much nicer graphics card. I highly doubt they will release a new graphics card. Perhaps more vram, but that is about it. I don't see much advantage to waiting it out any more. Also, I'm not the biggest fan of flash memory. It seems every flash device I have had, has ended up in the trash. I'll wait a few and see how it turns out.

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply
post #19 of 29
2/26/07 at 10:01pm
I, too, have a 1.25GHz 15" PB, bought in September, 2003, but I'm holding out for the Santa Rosa MBP. Here are what I hope and expect could be the differences between the current MBP and the SR version:

Current top 15" MBP:
2.33GHz C2D
667MHz FSB
Mobility Radeon X1600
6x SuperDrive
Fluorescent backlit display

SR top 15" MBP:
2.6GHz C2D
800MHz FSB
Mobility Radeon X1800
8x SuperDrive
1GB flash (Robson)
LED backlit display

X1600:
157 million transistors on 90nm fabrication process
Twelve pixel shader processors
Five vertex shader processors
128-bit 4-channel DDR/DDR2/GDDR3/GDDR4 memory interface
Native PCI Express x16 bus interface
Dynamic Voltage Control

X1800:
312 million transistors using 90nm fabrication process
Up to 16 pixel shader processors
Eight vertex shader processors
256-bit 8-channel DDR1/DDR2/GDDR3 memory interface
Native PCI Express® x16 bus interface
PowerPlay 6.0 power management technology
Avivo Video and Display architecture

Robson should help to improve battery life and make the MBP somewhat snappier in some respects. The 20% faster FSB should be welcome. The CPU is only 11.6% faster per core but for MP-aware apps, it might as well be 23% faster. The memory would be a bit faster, too.

LED backlighing will make for a much brighter display with richer color and will save on battery life. Add that to the benefits of Robson and there should be some overall significant improvement in battery life.

I sure hope I'm right about the X1800 and the 8x SuperDrive. We won't know for another 3 months. Anyway, I think these specs are worth waiting for.
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 29
2/27/07 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo View Post

I, too, have a 1.25GHz 15" PB, bought in September, 2003, but I'm holding out for the Santa Rosa MBP. Here are what I hope and expect could be the differences between the current MBP and the SR version:

Current top 15" MBP:
2.33GHz C2D
667MHz FSB
Mobility Radeon X1600
6x SuperDrive
Fluorescent backlit display

SR top 15" MBP:
2.6GHz C2D
800MHz FSB
Mobility Radeon X1800
8x SuperDrive
1GB flash (Robson)
LED backlit display

X1600:
157 million transistors on 90nm fabrication process
Twelve pixel shader processors
Five vertex shader processors
128-bit 4-channel DDR/DDR2/GDDR3/GDDR4 memory interface
Native PCI Express x16 bus interface
Dynamic Voltage Control

X1800:
312 million transistors using 90nm fabrication process
Up to 16 pixel shader processors
Eight vertex shader processors
256-bit 8-channel DDR1/DDR2/GDDR3 memory interface
Native PCI Express® x16 bus interface
PowerPlay 6.0 power management technology
Avivo Video and Display architecture

Robson should help to improve battery life and make the MBP somewhat snappier in some respects. The 20% faster FSB should be welcome. The CPU is only 11.6% faster per core but for MP-aware apps, it might as well be 23% faster. The memory would be a bit faster, too.

LED backlighing will make for a much brighter display with richer color and will save on battery life. Add that to the benefits of Robson and there should be some overall significant improvement in battery life.

I sure hope I'm right about the X1800 and the 8x SuperDrive. We won't know for another 3 months. Anyway, I think these specs are worth waiting for.


If SR tops out at 2.6 ghz then the wait may be worth it. I thought SR was topping out at 2.4 ghz. As far as the faster FSB, I think that's really overestimated. Intel recently released 4000 series Conroe chips. These are 'budget' chips in the core 2 lineage with 2 mb of L2 cache and an 800 mhz FSB vs. 1000mhz. Clock for clock the original Conroes are only 4% faster in overall performance using the SYSmark benchmark in a recent test at Anand. I would expect similar results with SR in comparisson to the original merom chips. Nothing wrong with 4-5% improvement but I just don't see it as something worth holding out for if you're needing a Mac now. LED backlighting could be a great feature worth the wait but we don't know for sure that the feature will make into the next MB/MBP.

As an owner of a Core 2 MBP, I can say from personal experience that I think you'll be happy. Especially if you're coming from a g4 PB. You'll be impressed with the performance.

Link:http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2903&p=3
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 29
3/2/07 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

The only way I could possibly get screwed, IMO, is if apple releases the next MBP with a much nicer graphics card.

What if the next MBP had built-in BluRay drive and HDMI-compatible output?
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 29
3/2/07 at 9:11am
I have no interest in a blu-ray drive, and as far as I know there aren't any laptop size ones yet. Even if there were, they would cost an arm and a leg. When DVD first came out for desktops and laptops, they were highend only.

The HDMI stuff would be interesting, but why is it needed? There really isn't any difference between HDMI and DVI besides audio being built in.

IMO apple is definitely going to have to do something to get people to buy the new machines. I'd say a new enclosure is highly possible.

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply
post #23 of 29
3/2/07 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by philby View Post

What if the next MBP had built-in BluRay drive and HDMI-compatible output?

I doubt you'll see blue ray drives in any Macs until the battle between Blue Ray and HD DVD is over. While Blue Ray may have the upper hand now it's not over yet and I don't see Apple adding that to machines until it is the de facto standard, especially given the cost of such drives.
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 29
3/2/07 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo View Post

Robson should help to improve battery life and make the MBP somewhat snappier in some respects. The 20% faster FSB should be welcome. The CPU is only 11.6% faster per core but for MP-aware apps, it might as well be 23% faster. The memory would be a bit faster, too.

LED backlighing will make for a much brighter display with richer color and will save on battery life. Add that to the benefits of Robson and there should be some overall significant improvement in battery life.

I sure hope I'm right about the X1800 and the 8x SuperDrive. We won't know for another 3 months. Anyway, I think these specs are worth waiting for.

I wouldn't hold my breathe for the x1800. I suppose it's possible, but apple hasn't always jumped on the graphics card bandwagon immediately with notebooks.

Also, I haven't been hearing good things about the LED backlighting on the LCDs for color calibration. Not good for graphics pros.

I am getting a rev b mac pro for my main workstation, so I won't be too heart broken if they do come out with these features. I just got my refurbed 2.33 mbp for 1999.00 today. I'm still working on the 1.25 because the 2.33 isn't set up, but wow, what a difference.

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply
post #25 of 29
3/2/07 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I doubt you'll see blue ray drives in any Macs until the battle between Blue Ray and HD DVD is over. While Blue Ray may have the upper hand now it's not over yet and I don't see Apple adding that to machines until it is the de facto standard, especially given the cost of such drives.

You're forgetting a little application Apple makes called DVD Studio Pro.

They need to get one drive or another, as an option, ASAP.

You're right that it won't be in the MBP for a while though.
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 29
3/2/07 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Also, I haven't been hearing good things about the LED backlighting on the LCDs for color calibration. Not good for graphics pros.

It depends on the type of LED you're using.

Modern LEDs are capable of producing a much more balanced spectrum, which results in a much wider color gamut, than the current cold cathode fluorescent lamps.

Fucking phenomenal for graphics pros.

This has been the factor holding them back from LEDs before—it's the "whiter" LEDs that are now enabling them to become backlights.
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 29
3/4/07 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

...WiMax is actually worth waiting for...

Somehow I doubt Apple will include the WiMax card if there are no service providers. So even if WiMax is technically included in Santa Rosa, I doubt we'll see it this year.
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 29
3/4/07 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggy05 View Post

Nothing wrong with Santa Rosa or Penryn or whatever. But I presently have a 1.42 GHz G4 Mac mini and my rule of thumb is to upgrade only to double my GHz -- Moore's Law (18 months or so). So despite the bells and whistles... I wait and wait for a 3.0 GHz C?D mini.

Clock speed alone isn't the deciding factor. The system bus speed in the Intels is far higher than the G4 and even the lowest Intel Mini beats the G4 by a factor of 4 at least. I know because I upgraded my G4 Mini as soon as the Core Solo got scrapped and I've tested it thoroughly. Of course, now I'd wait for the next revision but do it soon after it's released and pay no attention the the Ghz number attached to it.
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 29
3/4/07 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmf View Post

Somehow I doubt Apple will include the WiMax card if there are no service providers. So even if WiMax is technically included in Santa Rosa, I doubt we'll see it this year.

Well It's not like I was expecting Apple to follow Santa Rosa down to every chip, but if they are going to integrate the entire platform into even their Macbook line, then WiMax is a requirement. I'm still going to say this year, but either way, I won't be looking for a new Macbook unless I find I need a Macbook Pro for one reason or another, for the next couple of years.

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
Reply
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Next Generation Intel Platform (Santa Rosa)