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Apple ready to flick switch on Apple TV revolution - Page 6

post #201 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk View Post

For storing synched content, basically explained in Apple TV - Sync with iTunes.

That is useful. Thanks. Should have seen that.
post #202 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespr View Post

.....And for that reason Apple won't get my £200.

£200 (= $400, approx)!?

Man, you guys are getting ripped off in Europe. Why do you put up with this sort of cr4p? (In fact, this is the sort of thing that the EU folks and the consumer groups should be going after, instead of getting tangled in their underwear about iTunes and DRM.....)
post #203 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

£200 (= $400, approx)!?

Man, you guys are getting ripped off in Europe. Why do you put up with this sort of cr4p? (In fact, this is the sort of thing that the EU folks and the consumer groups should be going after, instead of getting tangled in their underwear about iTunes and DRM.....)

I'm pretty sure most of that goes to stuff like VAT/duties/taxes and higher operating expenses.
post #204 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch pear View Post

First, the non-US bit torrent crowd isn't into paying simply because outside of the States you can't buy these tvseries online. I strongly disagree with labeling this 'crowd' as cheap, 'free beer' people

Secondly, the advantage would be the general point of the apple-TV: getting content (moving image, pictures and music) easily from your computer to your TV/living room.

Third point: divx/xvid (simply meaning non-h264 mpeg4) is every bit as much a standard as mp3 is. Apple supports mp3. The iPod took off thanks to mp3 support. If they want the apple tv to really take off they need to support the most common format for downloadable video content.

There is a "big" bit torrent contingent here as well. But, it is mostly interested in "free" downloads. That's not a controversial statement.

As far as legal downloads go, very little is available in DivX. I'm not saying that there is none, but the big companies in this area don't use it.

MP3 is much more of a standard than Divx. That could change over time, but it's a long way from it yet.
post #205 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

You get ONE remote from the cable company. It handles all the DVR, navigation, VOD, etc stuff and sometimes even your TV (if its a common brand anyway). Going with TiVO OR any other 3rd party DVR gives you two remotes unless you just chuck the VOD or PPV services ... ... Apple is positioning aTV against the DVD player...not a DVR.

If all that Apple is going after is for ondemand movies, then I guess it would work ok. Though, they'd have to drop prices on all movies to about .99 cents before I would pick it over Netflix. With Netflix, I have 3 movies coming and going constantly for $19.95 (or whatever). In a typical month, I usually get around 20 movies (sometimes more). I've never bought a movie from iTMS, but it looks like their movies are about $9.99 minimum. So with $20/mo I spend on Netflix, I could get just 2 movies on iTMS.

Yes, iTMS movies are "instant", but the Netflix queue works well enough for me that I get so many movies so quickly, a day or two doesn't matter; not for that big of a price difference anyways. So if the iTV is positioned mainly for movie sales, I still think they're are completely beat in price.


"Going with TiVO OR any other 3rd party DVR gives you two remotes unless you just chuck the VOD or PPV services"
I only use the Tivo remote, I haven't touched my cable box remote in years. Actually I have no idea where it even is. It controls my TV (including TV power on/off), channel changing on the cable box via Tivo, and obviously the DVR features. For PPV/VOD services, I rarely use them [again, Netflix is my main source of movies]. But in this aspect, this is exactly where the iTV would step in and get some of my ongoing money. With the iTMS, there is no need for your cable co's VOD/PPV, is there? If I wanted an instant movie, I'd grab it from iTMS. Making it a perfect fit into this whole idea.

I still think it's just a natural fit.
post #206 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

MP3 is much more of a standard than Divx. That could change over time, but it's a long way from it yet.

You keep saying that but i can't help but disagree?? What do you have to back this up?? What other video format is the standard for downloadable content??
Yes I know there is very little legal divx/xvid content, but that is exactly the same with mp3, and certainly was when the iPod was introduced. Also both codecs adhere to the MPEG4 standard. So I keep saying that divx/xvid is for downloadable video exactly what mp3 is for downloadable music.

Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing for piracy, but IT IS a major factor that people will want to use 'non-bought' video content with their apple tv. Right now, I'm convinced that over 90% of that content is in divx/xvid format, most commonly inside an AVI wrapper. When that content won't work with the apple tv it will have a BIG negative impact on sales.

Side note: for this exact reason most current DVD players also support divx/xvid!
post #207 of 260
Please be aware that because of a little technicality called the Image Constraint Token (ICT),
Apple may not offer 720p material for widescreen, but perhaps only 960x540p.
That is, studios can invoke this tag to suppress any > 540p material from exiting
component outputs, which Apple TV has. Called the "analog hole", see:

http://broadcastengineering.com/mag/...cpr_redefined/

for more details.

That is, although the QuickTime Pro 'Movie to Apple TV' setting will happily transcode
much 1080p and 720p material to 720p (within the Apple TV H.264 specs), some
experiments show that this export tab will force a downrez to 540p, for example
for certain EyeTV -> HD Video export -> QuickTime AppleTV content.

Apple might choose to limit all ITunes content to 540p, or they may offer 720p
if they make their boxen sense that only HDMI/HDCP is used to connect to a big screen
and not the analog outputs.
post #208 of 260
I saw another very good comment on another board about this that I hadn't considered. How do you plan to connect your iTV to the net? DSL is horribly slow and wouldn't work, at least not at a reasonable speed. The only other big option besides the few that have sat. connections is through a cable modem.

I get about a 50% discount of my broadband connection from my cable co. by packaging it with my cable TV service. I tried a while back to only get their broadband [was going to get directv instead], but they wouldn't even sell it to me by itself. This probably depends on the location and company you use. But this is a very interesting question.

Anyone have ideas on this?
post #209 of 260
Quote:
You keep saying that but i can't help but disagree?? What do you have to back this up?? What other video format is the standard for downloadable content??
Yes I know there is very little legal divx/xvid content, but that is exactly the same with mp3, and certainly was when the iPod was introduced. Also both codecs adhere to the MPEG4 standard. So I keep saying that divx/xvid is for downloadable video exactly what mp3 is for downloadable music.

Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing for piracy, but IT IS a major factor that people will want to use 'non-bought' video content with their apple tv. Right now, I'm convinced that over 90% of that content is in divx/xvid format, most commonly inside an AVI wrapper. When that content won't work with the apple tv it will have a BIG negative impact on sales.

Side note: for this exact reason most current DVD players also support divx/xvid!

dude you are completely right. DivX is massive. People might not be aware of it, but I'd say a huge majority of AVI's they watch are encoded in DivX/XviD. Heck I saw Notes in a Scandal and the last episode of 24 this week alone, and no surprise they're in XviD.

For example, Sony, the biggest consumer electronics company in THE WORLD, is advertising their new 8" portable DVD player on the sony europe site.

http://www.sonystyle.co.uk/

Navigate to DVD and then Portable DVD player. And what do you see in a big picture right next to the image of the thing "DIVX VIDEO". Note, it doesn't mention H264, WMV. It says DIVX. I wonder why...

Now that's also a £200 a product. What would I rather spend my money on?
post #210 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch pear View Post

Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing for piracy, but IT IS a major factor that people will want to use 'non-bought' video content with their apple tv.

And "bought" video, too, like EyeTV MPEG-2 recordings without the time-consuming export conversion for aTV compatibility that Elgato's FAQ is currently suggesting.

Maybe unsupported video formats won't be as dramatic for aTV as if the iPod hadn't support MP3 but I still think it's an important issue from the perspective of potential customers. Isn't it obvious that aTV has a higher chance of general success by supporting popular formats like DivX/XviD and MPEG-2, regardless of origin? Seems to me both the amount and diversity of aTV-compatible content is currently lacking. And who wants to feel coerced into making iTS purchases, if they even can!?
post #211 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk View Post

And "bought" video, too, like EyeTV MPEG-2 recordings without the time-consuming export conversion for aTV compatibility that Elgato's FAQ is currently suggesting.

Maybe unsupported video formats won't be as dramatic for aTV as if the iPod hadn't support MP3 but I still think it's an important issue from the perspective of potential customers. Isn't it obvious that aTV has a higher chance of general success by supporting popular formats like DivX/XviD and MPEG-2, regardless of origin? Seems to me both the amount and diversity of aTV-compatible content is currently lacking. And who wants to feel coerced into making iTS purchases, if they even can!?

100% agree.
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post #212 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

100% agree.

Wow, seems like forever since anyone replied and agreed with me on this forum thanks! Even if you'd disagreed just an acknowledgment makes me feel like it's worth posting since usually my comments seem drowned out by more prolific posters.
post #213 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Man, you guys are getting ripped off in Europe. Why do you put up with this sort of cr4p?

Yeah we were going to go crying under our desks, but we changed our minds. What the heck are we supposed to do.
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post #214 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yeah we were going to go crying under our desks, but we changed our minds. What the heck are we supposed to do.

At least you have Universal Health Care in most (all?) countries. The increasing health care costs are striking the final blow to US manufacturing and the middle class here and there is nothing we can do but get over it or die trying (sometimes literally). Our politicians are more than useless in this as well as other pressing matters for our country right now.
post #215 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk View Post

Wow, seems like forever since anyone replied and agreed with me on this forum thanks! Even if you'd disagreed just an acknowledgment makes me feel like it's worth posting since usually my comments seem drowned out by more prolific posters.

I just wanted to say hello.
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post #216 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yeah we were going to go crying under our desks, but we changed our minds. What the heck are we supposed to do.

Move? With adequate health insurance in tow? (Ref. @homenow in #214 above).
post #217 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yeah we were going to go crying under our desks, but we changed our minds. What the heck are we supposed to do.

That's what I was wondering LOL
post #218 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribulation View Post

That's what I was wondering LOL

You could elect George Bush as Prime Minister, he will cut your taxes for you.
post #219 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch pear View Post

You keep saying that but i can't help but disagree?? What do you have to back this up?? What other video format is the standard for downloadable content??
Yes I know there is very little legal divx/xvid content, but that is exactly the same with mp3, and certainly was when the iPod was introduced. Also both codecs adhere to the MPEG4 standard. So I keep saying that divx/xvid is for downloadable video exactly what mp3 is for downloadable music.

Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing for piracy, but IT IS a major factor that people will want to use 'non-bought' video content with their apple tv. Right now, I'm convinced that over 90% of that content is in divx/xvid format, most commonly inside an AVI wrapper. When that content won't work with the apple tv it will have a BIG negative impact on sales.

Side note: for this exact reason most current DVD players also support divx/xvid!

If you re-read my post on this, you will see that I'm not talking about people who download from bit torrents, when I talk about Apple's customers for this. We've gone through this already.

MP3 is a format that is used by illegal downloaders, yes, but it is also used on almost every legal device as well, including all of Apple's. MP3 is a format that is used by hundreds of millions of people around the world for legal use.

Divx is also used for legal use. I won't deny that. But, it isn't nearly as prevelant around the world, or even here in the US as MP3.

No one using MS's services for video use Divx. No one using Apple's services for downloads uses it either.

None of Apple's devices natively support it, and I'm not even sure if it can be installed on an iPod at all.

No one buying DVD's use it either, nor Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

Cable and satellite don't use it, nor does broadcast.

You see where I'm going?

The point I'm making is that there is very little legal content encoded in Divx. So, as I said before, those who have Divx files will have to re-encode them to work on the AppleTv. Will they want to go through all that trouble, and possibly lose more quality? I doubt if many will.

I'm just saying, from that, I don't see most Divx users caring about this product much, unless, somehow, the codec can be added however it would be needed to work. There isn't, at least right now, as far as we know at this early time, a way to do that.

So, we actually agree on that, and it is what I have been saying to you.
post #220 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiarius View Post

Please be aware that because of a little technicality called the Image Constraint Token (ICT),
Apple may not offer 720p material for widescreen, but perhaps only 960x540p.
That is, studios can invoke this tag to suppress any > 540p material from exiting
component outputs, which Apple TV has. Called the "analog hole", see:

http://broadcastengineering.com/mag/...cpr_redefined/

for more details.

That is, although the QuickTime Pro 'Movie to Apple TV' setting will happily transcode
much 1080p and 720p material to 720p (within the Apple TV H.264 specs), some
experiments show that this export tab will force a downrez to 540p, for example
for certain EyeTV -> HD Video export -> QuickTime AppleTV content.

Apple might choose to limit all ITunes content to 540p, or they may offer 720p
if they make their boxen sense that only HDMI/HDCP is used to connect to a big screen
and not the analog outputs.

What you are saying is correct.

It's interesting though, that both the Blu-Ray group, and the HD-DVD group have said that they will allow that hole, and the lack od HDCP, to be exploited until at least the Digital turnover date in 2009. So, we'll see what happens with that.
post #221 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespr View Post

dude you are completely right. DivX is massive. People might not be aware of it, but I'd say a huge majority of AVI's they watch are encoded in DivX/XviD. Heck I saw Notes in a Scandal and the last episode of 24 this week alone, and no surprise they're in XviD.

For example, Sony, the biggest consumer electronics company in THE WORLD, is advertising their new 8" portable DVD player on the sony europe site.

http://www.sonystyle.co.uk/

Navigate to DVD and then Portable DVD player. And what do you see in a big picture right next to the image of the thing "DIVX VIDEO". Note, it doesn't mention H264, WMV. It says DIVX. I wonder why...

Now that's also a £200 a product. What would I rather spend my money on?

This is one of the fairly small number of products that do play Divx. Some of the DVD players do have that capability for CD-R/-RW disks, as this one does. For 249£

It doesn't mention H-264 because that's not a DVD or CD format, whereas Divx is.

But, this is not a Divx machine. No one would buy one (well, almost no one). This is a (quote from the web page follows) -

Quote:
DVD-R/-RW (video and VR modes), DVD-R Dual Layer (video mode), DVD+R/+RW and DVD+R Dual Layer
Audio CD and CD-R/RW with audio, MP3 and JPEG files
DVD-R/-RW/+R/+RW and CD-R/-RW with DivX

playing machine.

That should be enough of the worlds dominant formats for the CD-DVD market.
post #222 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by @homenow View Post

You could elect George Bush as Prime Minister, he will cut your taxes for you.

I wish someone would offer him the job. Maybe he would leave here early.

There's always hope.
post #223 of 260
Quote:
You keep saying that but i can't help but disagree?? What do you have to back this up?? What other video format is the standard for downloadable content?? dude you are completely right. DivX is massive.

Admittedly I'm not one of the people downloading lots of pirated content. But I do download video and I feel I rarely download a DivX video.

I would say the far majority of the video I watch on the internet is streamed Flash Video. The majority of the downloaded video is probably split between QT and Windows Media.

The rare times I get something from DivX I get a reminder that I have an outdated DivX player. Which I'd forgotten I even had because I never use it.

Come to think of it most people I know don't know anything about DivX and have not downloaded the player.
post #224 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Admittedly I'm not one of the people downloading lots of pirated content. But I do download video and I feel I rarely download a DivX video.

I would say the far majority of the video I watch on the internet is streamed Flash Video. The majority of the downloaded video is probably split between QT and Windows Media.

The rare times I get something from DivX I get a reminder that I have an outdated DivX player. Which I'd forgotten I even had because I never use it.

Come to think of it most people I know don't know anything about DivX and have not downloaded the player.

that's true. I think that video downloads in general are not very popular around most of the world as yet, because relatively few have hi speed connections, which are, so far, mostly limited to the richer countries.

Even there, while millions use bit torrents for music, video is still in it's infancy.
post #225 of 260
I download Lost using a torrent application because we don't have it available in the UK iTunes store. All the episodes that I have downloaded over the past 3 seasons have been in DivX. I really hope that Apple TV will support the codec (officially or unofficially).
post #226 of 260
It seems that most who use DivX here admit they are using it to obtain content they did not pay for or received from a distributor who had no legal right to distribute.

If AppleTV did support DivX it would also support this activity. Which isn't beneficial to the content creators, ultimately what benefit is that for Apple?
post #227 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

It seems that most who use DivX here admit they are using it to obtain content they did not pay for or received from a distributor who had no legal right to distribute.

If AppleTV did support DivX it would also support this activity. Which isn't beneficial to the content creators, ultimately what benefit is that for Apple?

That's one of the points I'm trying to make.

But, even though we have both stated this, as have a couple of others, it seems as though these Divx posters aren't bothering to read any of the older posts, and so keep posting the same thing.

They just don't seem to understand that with Apple's leading position in the downloadable content industry, and with them attempting to convince other companies to sell them their content as well, Apple can't be seen as supporting pirated content.

Apple was soundly whipped for the original "rip and burn" ads before the iTunes store came online. Apple was forced to explain over and over that they weren't encouraging pirated music, but the burning of their own collections.

They would just give the studios another excuse to refuse them their content.

Other players, who are either small, or who have little sales of others content, can more afford to supply Divx to their customers.

I wish these posters would understand that.
post #228 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I wish these posters would understand that.

Okay, Mr. Know-It-All.

Some of us do understand your points but they don't negate equally valid points that you might exclude or discredit if they don't support your own arguments. I don't think anyone is immune from that sort of selective exclusion that we sometimes accuse others of having, explicitly or implicitly.

Even though I understand and often agree with much of what you write it sometimes leaves little room for others (myself included) to express their own ideas and opinions without being eaten alive if they happen to contradict you or buried alive by your prolific presence.

I kind of doubt your blunt remarks about "DivX posters" will convince them to read more or dissuade any myopic stubbornness about the issues though you certainly can, and possibly will, keep trying.
post #229 of 260
Just got notice that I may see my Apple TV by the 23rd, any other reports?
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post #230 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by @homenow View Post

You could elect George Bush as Prime Minister, he will cut your taxes for you.

The last thing we want is another Hitler in Europe.
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post #231 of 260
Mine is still stuck on 'Ship by 3/20.
post #232 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

Just got notice that I may see my Apple TV by the 23rd, any other reports?

I heard the same, you will. Personally I'm waiting for the Apple TV with a huge hard drive and a 40" display.
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post #233 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The last thing we want is another Hitler in Europe.

Q: And how is a moronic good-ol boy equivalent to a psychopath that decided that he was the best person to rule the entirety of a continent and explicitly ordered the murder of over 6 million people?

A: He's not on any scale. Period.

You just tarnish your credibility by throwing around obviously ridiculous statements meant to inflame.

Yes, he's a moron. But he's not a megalomaniacal psychopathic genocidal murderer.
.
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post #234 of 260
Please let Hiro's comments put an end to the brief political topic drift.
post #235 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk View Post

Okay, Mr. Know-It-All.

Some of us do understand your points but they don't negate equally valid points that you might exclude or discredit if they don't support your own arguments. I don't think anyone is immune from that sort of selective exclusion that we sometimes accuse others of having, explicitly or implicitly.

Even though I understand and often agree with much of what you write it sometimes leaves little room for others (myself included) to express their own ideas and opinions without being eaten alive if they happen to contradict you or buried alive by your prolific presence.

I kind of doubt your blunt remarks about "DivX posters" will convince them to read more or dissuade any myopic stubbornness about the issues though you certainly can, and possibly will, keep trying.

Again, from Mr. Know It All, I'm speaking about the majority of people. No matter what you may say, Divx users are a small minority, even though you might like to think otherwise. Have I left wiggle room? No. because there isn't any.

If you can show that the vast mass of people out there use Divx, I will change my tune. But, remember that I'm talking about people who watch Tv, not those who spend their time downloading movies and whatnot.

What I've been saying, and I haven't been alone on this, is that it's the Divx users who will likely not be interested in this product, and that there aren't enough of them to change Apple's metrics.

So, what DO you think? Are Divx users the majority of those consuming content (not downloading it for free), and will they be customers of this product in significant ways?
post #236 of 260
Personally, I don't care if aTV supports DivX since until earlier today (for brief Toast testing) I didn't have even a single DivX file on my Macs, which also disqualifies me as a "DivX poster" here.

I see several reasons why Apple has chosen (for now) to limit the video formats aTV supports, including not wanting to be perceived as catering to piracy as you mentioned earlier. They want to focus on H.264, especially with it already being the primary video iPod format. And maybe there's even something to Cringley's recent H.264 hardware encoder speculation, although a few of the comments have reasonable doubts of that. Plus they reduce support overhead of trying to figure out why Billy's supposedly supported files, with unknown and suspicious origins, won't play with aTV. But I'm betting they'll get a few people wondering why files they've imported into iTunes that play with iTunes don't play with aTV.

Still, I care that aTV is useless to any customers who'd consider one if it were compatible with more of whatever content is available to them (ignoring Windows Media, which the iPod has already set expectations that Apple won't support even for Windows users). That's really my main point rather than focusing on specific incompatible formats, with any sympathy I've shown for DivX content "owners" in this thread seen in that more general context. I'd rather give people the benefit of doubt that they already or will have legitimately obtained content that aTV won't support, some who've even dabbled in video piracy and chosen not to anymore (like with audio piracy).

Regardless of the reasons right now I'm disappointed how Apple has limited aTV after they'd originally been more liberal and generous with the iPod even though it supported illegally obtained MP3 (mostly) content. And certainly there could be things that eventually change my mind and feelings.

So, that's my indirect response rather than directly addressing what you said that I essentially agree with.
post #237 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk View Post

Personally, I don't care if aTV supports DivX since until earlier today (for brief Toast testing) I didn't have even a single DivX file on my Macs, which also disqualifies me as a "DivX poster" here.

I see several reasons why Apple has chosen (for now) to limit the video formats aTV supports, including not wanting to be perceived as catering to piracy as you mentioned earlier. They want to focus on H.264, especially with it already being the primary video iPod format. And maybe there's even something to Cringley's recent H.264 hardware encoder speculation, although a few of the comments have reasonable doubts of that. Plus they reduce support overhead of trying to figure out why Billy's supposedly supported files, with unknown and suspicious origins, won't play with aTV. But I'm betting they'll get a few people wondering why files they've imported into iTunes that play with iTunes don't play with aTV.

Still, I care that aTV is useless to any customers who'd consider one if it were compatible with more of whatever content is available to them (ignoring Windows Media, which the iPod has already set expectations that Apple won't support even for Windows users). That's really my main point rather than focusing on specific incompatible formats, with any sympathy I've shown for DivX content "owners" in this thread seen in that more general context. I'd rather give people the benefit of doubt that they already or will have legitimately obtained content that aTV won't support, some who've even dabbled in video piracy and chosen not to anymore (like with audio piracy).

Regardless of the reasons right now I'm disappointed how Apple has limited aTV after they'd originally been more liberal and generous with the iPod even though it supported illegally obtained MP3 (mostly) content. And certainly there could be things that eventually change my mind and feelings.

So, that's my indirect response rather than directly addressing what you said that I essentially agree with.

So that's good. We actually do agree.

By the way, I don't always agree with what Apple does. I'm on record too many times in disagreement, to have people who have been here for a while to think that.

I also don't want to be thought of as insulting a portion of the readership. I just write what is known, and written about elsewhere about these numbers. They can be looked up by anyone.

These are the specs for anyone who doesn't know:

Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile
• Audio formats supported: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps); protected AAC (from iTunes Store); MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps); MP3 VBR; Apple Lossless; AIFF; WAV
• Photo formats supported: JPEG, BMP, GIF, TIFF, PNG
• Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz
post #238 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's one of the points I'm trying to make.

But, even though we have both stated this, as have a couple of others, it seems as though these Divx posters aren't bothering to read any of the older posts, and so keep posting the same thing.

They just don't seem to understand that with Apple's leading position in the downloadable content industry, and with them attempting to convince other companies to sell them their content as well, Apple can't be seen as supporting pirated content.

Apple was soundly whipped for the original "rip and burn" ads before the iTunes store came online. Apple was forced to explain over and over that they weren't encouraging pirated music, but the burning of their own collections.

They would just give the studios another excuse to refuse them their content.

Other players, who are either small, or who have little sales of others content, can more afford to supply Divx to their customers.

I wish these posters would understand that.

I accept you're making fair points, and that Apple is leading the way with regards to video content and so it's right they use their model. But this is only in America. One nation out of the entire world. And while other countries scramble to get their content online, they're not all selling their stuff to iTunes.

The BBC recently decided they wanted their own model, and I'm sure whatever codec they use won't be compatible with iTV. End of the day the DivX/Xvid codec is brilliant for what it does, which is encode a video in as good a quality as possible at the smallest possible file size, which has been proven over and over again by most, it not all DVD authoring sites. If I was to back up all my DVD's today, I'd want to do it in XviD. If I wanted to lend a film to a friend, all I'd have to do is burn the AVI onto a Disc and they can watch it on their Sony/Panasonic/Pioneer/Samsung DVD player. They wouldn't if it was in h264.

In all honesty, this is a win/win situation for Apple, coz if it came down to it, I wouldn't buy the iTV for £200. I'd get a used Mac Mini off ebay for the same and a 500gb ministack and use that as a media centre, with front row. I just find it ironic when you say Apple can't be seen to support pirate DVD's by supplying DivX on their machines, when every consumer electronics company that sells a DVD player already does it, including Sony, one of the major film producers.

So let's just agree to disagree as it really is pointless continuing this debate. But one thing is certain there are millions upon millions of DivX files being traded over P2P, torrents, IRC, newsgroups, Rapidshare etc etc. Every single film, tv show, documentary aired on US television is available on the Internet and it is available in XviD. And personally for me who does download this content, if the iTV supported it they'd have got my money.
post #239 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespr View Post

I just find it ironic when you say Apple can't be seen to support pirate DVD's by supplying DivX on their machines, when every consumer electronics company that sells a DVD player already does it, including Sony, one of the major film producers.

Yeah, if Sony (et.al.) can sell DivX-compatible devices what's Apple's real reason not to do it with aTV? Surely it can't be a licensing cost issue because much smaller companies provide DivX support for their products. For example, Elgato's discontinued EyeHome supports these video formats:

MPEG-1 (.mpg)
MPEG-2 (including unencrypted .vob)
ISMA MPEG-4 (.mp4)
DivX (including DIVX, DX50, XVID, DivX 3.x, 3ivX 4 codecs)

No H.264.

And its audio support is mostly a superset of aTV:

MPEG-1 Layers 1, 2, 3 (.mp3)
AAC (.m4a, iTunes Music Store tracks are currently unsupported)
AIFF
WAV
WMA (unencrypted)
PLS (Internet Radio)
Ogg Vorbis
Dolby Digital sound through an S/PDIF port

No Apple Lossless.

EyeHome doesn't support HDTV, the Sigma Designs chip is old, and the UI is weak. But it lets you browse video content under your Movies folder (following links to other folders); aTV seems crippled in comparison without that capability (heck, put it in an Advanced menu or something).

These kinds of aTV limitations aren't technical. Wish I were more enthusiastic about what it can do than disappointed by what it can't.

Quote:
But one thing is certain there are millions upon millions of DivX files being traded over P2P, torrents, IRC, newsgroups, Rapidshare etc etc. Every single film, tv show, documentary aired on US television is available on the Internet and it is available in XviD. And personally for me who does download this content, if the iTV supported it they'd have got my money.

Seems you're not the kind of aTV customer Apple wants.

Maybe they're sell a few to folks who've ripped DVDs to H.264.
post #240 of 260
Quote:
I just find it ironic when you say Apple can't be seen to support pirate DVD's by supplying DivX on their machines, when every consumer electronics company that sells a DVD player already does it, including Sony, one of the major film producers.

You have to understand giant companies like Sony. Often the right arm has no idea what the left arm is doing. Sony Electronics and Sony Pictures are two different divisions run by different people. Sony Pictures is attempting to make as much money as possible from its content. Sony Electronics is attempting to sell as much of its products as possible. The two divisions don't have a cohesive plan.

Apple would negotiate with Sony Pictures for content. Sony Pictures is likely not be too happy about DivX and within that negotiation it doesn't matter what Sony Electronics is doing.
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