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Apple TV said to be worthy of overtaking both TiVo and Netflix - Page 2

post #41 of 115
Everyone here is focussing only on video/movies. There is music and photos and internet video content. Netflix/Tivo, etc. don't address these at all and my eyeHome does a shtty job on these. I thing ATV will be a success (don't know how large) because it unifies access to all of these. Like the iPod version 1 will grow based on experience and feedback of actually users.
post #42 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Everyone here is focussing only on video/movies. There is music and photos and internet video content. Netflix/Tivo, etc. don't address these at all and my eyeHome does a shtty job on these. I thing ATV will be a success (don't know how large) because it unifies access to all of these. Like the iPod version 1 will grow based on experience and feedback of actually users.

I am sorry. I can't imagine a market for a product that allows a user to play internet video clips (from YouTube, Break, Google, AOL, etc.) on your television.

Dave
post #43 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Am I the only one who thinks the Apple TV might be a huge flop? After the initial coolest factor of Apple's newest toy is gone, I can't really see the point of this product.

- Nobody is going to cancel their Netflix/BlockBuster DVD subscription over this.
- Nobody is going to cancel their TiVo/Cable Company DVR service over this.
- I can't imagine that many iTunes users buying as much TV/Movie content as they do Music content.
- At best the iTunes/Apple TV is an awkward solution to a personal on-demand DVD center.

Even if Apple adds a DVR and rental services (and that is a very big if) will they be enough for you to cancel your membership to another service?

I just don't get it?? What I am missing?

Dave

You're not missing anything, Dave. I've made the same points since AppleTV's introduction. It's a product that cannot stand alone and is hare-brained in it's current form.

Once (and might I add, "if") Apple has the leverage to offer DVR, rentals and some the other fine suggestions that have been made on these boards, it will have a competitive product. Right now, it is not.

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post #44 of 115
So many people seem to be looking at the AppleTV for what it is NOT. It plays music and movies streamed from other computers. I've had a Mac Mini on my TV for a year which does this fine. The Mini plays many more video formats than the AppleTV, and is a real computer to boot.

I think the AppleTV could be Apple's "toe in the water" towards some of these really cool things. But at least per announced specs, it's just an easier way of doing a very limited number of things.
post #45 of 115
for me the only interesting thing about AppleTV is whenever they support 1080p and 5.1 audio, I would record using Elgato hdtv content from my satellite provider and then watch it in my entertainment room hdtv set streaming from my computer at my office . Also same applies to my music on itunes to my stereo on the living room.

I have no desire to buy TV Shows and Movies on ITMS at this time. The quality is low and I rather purchase the physical media and have there a back up, hi-quality and the artwork. (blu-ray anyone?)

I think the AppleTV needs to evolve in something bigger and more interesting on the next versions to become a huge success IMHO.
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post #46 of 115
This first gen seems to be a 'toe in the water' as stated. Just making some usually 'complex' things for non-computer people easy. I know it isn't hard to just network a computer and connect it to a TV, but most non-technophiles can't get this through their heads. They use things as labeled on the box and/or how it was set up for them.
post #47 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravedeer View Post

It's obvious that Apple TV is a device for a niche market. It offers no competition to Netflix/DVD because the iTunes store only has 500 movies or so, they are not for rent but for sale and it takes awhile to download them (4-5 hours for the average dsl/cable customer).

Unless Apple unveils a movie rental service where you can schedule iTunes to rent 3 movies a week and pay $20/mo, there's really no competition. Movies are not like tunes, most movies we watch are crappy and not even worth seeing once and most of the ones worth seeing are only worth seeing once.

There'll be a small number of people buying Apple TVs compared to the people buying iPods.

I've downloaded movies from iTunes before via DSL, and it only takes 45 minutes or so, and the AppleTV will start viewing the movie BEFORE the download finishes - that's what the HDD is for! That won't be a problem at all.

However, I tend to agree on the own/buy thing - I don't usually want to actually buy a movie - I'd rather rent it then delete it when done.

This analyst has the same problem a lot of people have when they look at this device. they see it and don't see what Apple wants you to see, but what they WANT to see!

Apple wants this to be a connector from your Mac to your TV. Period, end of story.

Ever heard of the Digital Hub? That's what Steve calls the Mac. This thing is supposed to bring content from your Mac to your TV, and they want to sell you the content using the web and your Mac.

Although, Steve and Apple aren't completely stupid. I think that eventually, they'll get the rent issue and will start doing that. After all, they aren't really in the content arena, they want you to buy their products - and to rent you'll still have to own the right mix of products to get their rental stuff!

So - TiVo? No, it won't kill that one, but Netflix? Maybe in a few years they'll be in a good position to compete.
post #48 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by EruIthildur View Post

This first gen seems to be a 'toe in the water' as stated. Just making some usually 'complex' things for non-computer people easy. I know it isn't hard to just network a computer and connect it to a TV, but most non-technophiles can't get this through their heads. They use things as labeled on the box and/or how it was set up for them.

IMO, and speaking as an Apple stockholder , I would have much preferred that Apple would have targeted a larger audience for AppleTV and make it work for non-computer owners also as a DVR containing tons of additional functionality and incentive for the buyer to eventually upgrade to a Mac. This would provide an upgrade path that would multiply iTunes and iPod purchases.

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post #49 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Everyone here is focussing only on video/movies. There is music and photos and internet video content. Netflix/Tivo, etc. don't address these at all and my eyeHome does a shtty job on these. I thing ATV will be a success (don't know how large) because it unifies access to all of these. Like the iPod version 1 will grow based on experience and feedback of actually users.

Tivo already does music (mp3's and supposedly unprotected AAC's with an install of LAME) and photos from your computer. It also now has TV and movie purchasing and movie rentals via Amazon's Unbox, although you have to do the purchasing from a computer (just like AppleTV). It also plays a couple basic games and allows some access to basic internet content like weather and traffic reports via Yahoo. Listening to music is painless on the Tivo (except that I encoded most of my content as AAC).
post #50 of 115
TIVo is a nice package. Can't see iTV pulling me away from it.

Besides it doesn't even have an ATI x1900xt gpu.
post #51 of 115
At the risk of flogging a deceased equine, the number of movies I really want to own is limited, nearly all of them concert videos.

I listen to music over and over... I want to 'own' those (however the recording industry lets me define that.)
I really don't want to spend massive memory and $$ on owning Movies. I watch them once, maybe twice for director's narrative. A few kids movies may get repeated viewing.

But what's with this obsession on buying movies? I want to DVR and rent.
Just curious.
post #52 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Tivo already does music (mp3's and supposedly unprotected AAC's with an install of LAME) and photos from your computer. It also now has TV and movie purchasing and movie rentals via Amazon's Unbox, although you have to do the purchasing from a computer (just like AppleTV). It also plays a couple basic games and allows some access to basic internet content like weather and traffic reports via Yahoo. Listening to music is painless on the Tivo (except that I encoded most of my content as AAC).

Actually everyone in my family finds the Tivo Music interface (series 2) very bad and not worth it since it doesn't play the ACC (I assume your talking about installing LAME on TiVo which is beyond the scope of most). I find ACC much better quality than MP3. Also, the photo quality on TiVo I find unacceptable. Color is bad and contract too high. I'm hoping (don't know I'll be the first to admit) that given component out on the ATV that photos will actually be nice to look at. So I don't count Tivo for this function.
post #53 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

At the risk of flogging a deceased equine, the number of movies I really want to own is limited, nearly all of them concert videos.

I listen to music over and over... I want to 'own' those (however the recording industry lets me define that.)
I really don't want to spend massive memory and $$ on owning Movies. I watch them once, maybe twice for director's narrative. A few kids movies may get repeated viewing.

But what's with this obsession on buying movies? I want to DVR and rent.
Just curious.

You just said the truth.
I don't understand why people buy tons of movies. I only buy music videos, concerts, kids movies and hardly ever some sports dvds. Those, I have interested to watch more than two times.

Everything else, movies and tv shows I rent.
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post #54 of 115
The banners at MacWorld hinted towards something big, You ain't seen nothin' yet stylee. This IS just the beggining of a new, mass consumer market product stategy at Apple. It's obvious, it started with the Mini, most affordable mac ever. now iPhone, everyone wants one, TV is just the begining, and i'm sure there is LOADS more from where they came from... i Hope....
post #55 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Um, Jobs didn't found Pixar. He bought it from George Lucas. I mean yeah, he founded it in the sense that he renamed the newly independent company Pixar, but it's not like he made it from scratch. This nitpick brought to you by the letter 7 and the number Q.

The people who made PIXAR before it was PIXAR were Catmull amongst others who all formed PIXAR so in essence, PRMan and the rest was done at PIXAR. What tools they developed at Lucas later either merged or were scrapped when Lucas formed ILM.

ILM Faq: http://www.ilmfan.com/main/index.php...on=8:6:7#ILM10

Clearly, such language about Lucas letting Catmull find a buyer makes it clear he didn't control the intellectual property over Catmull.

Yes, Jobs founded PIXAR. Catmull wasn't the boss. He found his partner, in Steve, who ran a company while sharing a vision amicable to Catmull's dreams.
post #56 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

I am already starting to encode my entire DVD (300 plus movies) collection to get ready for the AppleTV but it will be some time before I get one.


I'm doing the same and re-importing my music at a higher bit rate also. I installed four 400GB SATA drives in a G4 tower and made two 800GB drives, one being a backup of the other, to be my media center for when I get an AppleTV and HDTV.
post #57 of 115
I'm a huge Apple fan (with a huge list of Apple products), but you must be kid'n me! My Tivo isn't going anywhere... Especialy since I can now buy/rent and send "Amazon Unbox" movies/TV shows over to my Tivo (not to mention Tivo's ability to play music and view photo from my Mac. I can also send MPEG-2 Video from my Mac to my Tivo. Oh yah... It even records TV shows)... Apple TV is a little overpriced for the things it does. If it was around $150.00 maybe I would consider buying one...
post #58 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post

Hmm. you mean like this ?

And some more cool stuff.

MPEG-4 Encoding
post #59 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

He who laughs last ....

...is the only one left laughing.


Apple WILL do whatever it takes to upgrade this thing. I do hope we see movie rentals soon.
post #60 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post

Hmm. you mean like this ?

That's one potential buy the Apple would be wise to make with their big wad of cash.
post #61 of 115
Someone, go on youTube and search for very first ipod keynote. It's very low key. iPod did not get much attention at first. AppleTV won't either. A couple generations down the road, yes AppleTV will be the dominant computer/tv integration, especially once all televisions will require at least a analog to digital converter in 2009. Tivo will be held in the same regards as sansa or creative. AppleTV will have the 'cool' appeal. This factor is a very underestimated power among buyers' decisions. All of us that read this blog are educated consumers and usually don't care much about cool. We need to think about the fact that a majority of consumers are uneducated and they count on the cool factor. The 'cool' appeal is something Apple does better than every other company.
post #62 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianus View Post

While you may be correct about the tech geekery of the naysaysers getting in the way of their analysis (no tech geek, myself included, thought much of the iPod when it was released), the trouble here is that Apple TV is supposed in the article to be a "Tivo killer" or a "Netflix killer". Unlike the early, clunky MP3 players the iPod replaced, these two services are very easy to use already and they fill needs that Apple TV simply can't (DVR and rental, respectively).

Also, while Apple could conceivably add a rental service with a simple software patch, or perhaps not even that, I would think adding DVR functionality (which would benefit the iTunes store.. how??) would require a hardware upgrade, which again falls into the "tinkering tech geek" category.

Apple is trying to do an end run around Tivo. If you are ABC TV, which is more attractive to you, viewers time shifting your programming using a DVR or viewers time shifting them by BUYING them off iTunes? If you are a TV content producer, there is no downside to making your shows available for sale on iTunes since anytime somebody time shifts your programs using a DVR you get paid the princely sum of zero, that's zero, dollars. An additional advantage for iTunes is that yo don't need to determine in advance what shows you wish to time shift. And episodes that were broadcast weeks ago are available.

I also wonder whether Apple can resist offering a Movie subscription service. My guess is they'll try sales first but Plan B is waiting in the wings. But long as the bandwidth is not there, movie downloads will remain a niche market, sales or rental. When the bandwidth becomes available though, Netflix's DVD mail service will die its long expected natural death and whoever has his internet infrastructure in place and offers the simplest user experience will take over.

This is where iTunes earns its keep. Seemingly little individual consumer decisions driven by 'laziness' becomes a near insurmountable barrier for Apple's competition. Yes, it's sheer inertia. People are comfortable with iTunes. They don't want to bother having to familiarize themselves with another content and device management site as long as iTunes remains fairly simple to navigate and stays current by continually expanding its media scope. This is the boat that Sony, Samsung, Creative, Sandisk, Microsoft Zune, and all the other failed MP3 mfrers missed. [If you don't believe me, ask Yahoo and MS how hard it is to get people to try something else other than Google for their internet searches.]

Yeah Netflix has a nifty website that can easily transition to a full-on download service. But compare the 8.8 million subscribers that Netflix reports on their website to the 100 million iPods whose owners are regularly accessing iTunes to manage all those iPods. Okay, if it's an overestimate, let's say 50 million iPod owners. Once the high bandwidth spigots are turned on, Netflix will suffer AOL's fate. Subscribers will start leaving because "I can get movies at iTunes but I can't configure my iPod on Netflix. So why bother with Netflix?"
post #63 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Actually everyone in my family finds the Tivo Music interface (series 2) very bad and not worth it since it doesn't play the ACC (I assume your talking about installing LAME on TiVo which is beyond the scope of most). I find ACC much better quality than MP3. Also, the photo quality on TiVo I find unacceptable. Color is bad and contract too high. I'm hoping (don't know I'll be the first to admit) that given component out on the ATV that photos will actually be nice to look at. So I don't count Tivo for this function.

Um, if you hate the Tivo music interface, you're not going to like AppleTV's any better. I just did a comparison between the Tivo and Front Row interface (which clearly seems to be the basic interface used for AppleTV). They are essentially identical except that Tivo doesn't display album artwork. Basically, you're navigating an iPod interface. Otherwise navigation is the same except that Tivo allows the use of page up and page down to faster move through the selections. Maybe Apple has added a Coverflow mode.

I haven't gotten AAC to work with LAME, but most of what I've read has been fairly technical and I'm new to the Mac to begin with. I doubt I'd use it very much regardless (I have an Airport Express and just use AirTunes) but it's there for people if they want it. To me, both MP3 and AAC sound lacking coming out of real speakers to begin with.

As for photos, they looked okay on my TV via Tivo. I don't know if it matters, but I'm using an S-Video connection to the TV so that might help. The only photos I had handy are fairly low-res images from the web, but I was fine with it. Photos aren't a feature I'd really ever use on AppleTV or Tivo.
post #64 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnaina View Post

Hold on there billybob. This is still version 1.0 and the game has just begun. Once content distribution systems have matured, fast (>30 Meg) broadband adoption rate goes up, and more households have HDTV, you will HD quality offered on ITMS. It's about addressing the major segment of your market.

For example, I'm geeked up beyond your average home. I've got a 60" Panny 1080P plasma, a DLP 1080I capable projector, Blu-Ray, Mediacenter, 100Meg DOCSIS 3.0 cable based broadband (FTTH coming soon) etc, etc. Apple is not targeting folks like me. Most folks have standard def CRT's still with perhaps component video inputs at best. This is where Apple is targeting. Once the HD owners segment increases (along with faster broadband speeds) you bet that Apple will have AppleTV HD edition for sales. It is part of the plan.

first off, keep billybob to yourself.

2nd , even though this is v1.0 of AppleTV , does anyone think Netflix/Tivo is going to just sit there for another 1-2 years waiting for Apple to upgrade while doing nothing ?

AppleTV once released and reviewed , and is in a state we're told ( ie. will play only your iTunes library , etc ), will take beating like there's no tomorrow( in my opinion). They're pretty much making widescreen TV a must , which in most instances are also HD sets. Why would anyone accept less than SD on HD when they can have much better if they go other route. (Netflix and Tivo ) This is no iPod where design sells , nobody looks at their set up box , they look at the TV.
post #65 of 115
This is going to end up looking like the other thread. iTunes TV Show iPTV subscription service is on the way - I soooo know it
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post #66 of 115
I actually agree that IPTV is likely Apple's eventual move to cut off the call for PVR services and/or live TV content. Whether Apple TV will be the device to enable it or it will take Apple TV 2.0 I don't know, but I think Apple is betting on the long term viability of live TV over the web in HD.

IPTV negates the need for a PVR, a small local HD is all that's required to cache the content and allow for rewind/pause/ff. The data resides on the web and can be started/stopped/ff/etc. in IPTV without a local HD.

TV programming as we know it will change forever. Forget about the Monday night premiere of the new Heroes at 9PM (set your PVR), it will become the Monday night posting of the new Heroes next to a ton of other content from that week. Watch what you want when you want - with each show coming at a fee (much like iTunes today).
post #67 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Am I the only one who thinks the Apple TV might be a huge flop? After the initial coolest factor of Apple's newest toy is gone, I can't really see the point of this product.

- Nobody is going to cancel their Netflix/BlockBuster DVD subscription over this.
- Nobody is going to cancel their TiVo/Cable Company DVR service over this.
- I can't imagine that many iTunes users buying as much TV/Movie content as they do Music content.
- At best the iTunes/Apple TV is an awkward solution to a personal on-demand DVD center.

Even if Apple adds a DVR and rental services (and that is a very big if) will they be enough for you to cancel your membership to another service?

I just don't get it?? What I am missing?

Dave

The only thing that you are missing is that, unlike this analyst, Apple doesn't care about DVD's, so don't knock down that strawman. aTV ain't about DVD on-demand, it IS about ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET or ANYTHING ON YOUR COMPUTER to be made available on-demand - on your TV. Maybe that doesn't account for much for many people right now, but this has nothing to do with competing with NetFlix or BlockBuster.

Except for the strangely small harddrive, the aTV is for synching media of all types from your computer to the TV and stereo. It is not just an expensive iPod cable as described above, it is an Airport Extreme, iPod-like box that wirelessly synchs everything EXCEPT rental video on to the number one entertainment device of the home, the TV.

This will only be useful for music, podcasts (vidcasts will get better and better), TV subscriptions, and movies you already know you want to own. Video rental makes more sense to me with physical media that can be reused over and over, for a while longer. Eventually this will not be true.

The BlueRay box that Apple will make next year will be a part of this - for your rental needs. And the Miglia DVR device (MaxTV) as pointed to above will deal with your DVR needs. Those are all content that are best done as physical media and as streaming cable signals (separate from the computer) ... for now. However in a few years when bandwidth and DRM's become better and more sophisticated, NetFlix and TiVo will be less efficient and everything will move to permanent or temporary downloads. THAT is when the small market of aTV owners will be the foundation for Internet 4.0. THAT is when streaming media and files will truly scale from iPhone, to iPod, to HDTV. The future is in getting media to be transparently available across all of the devices (iPod, iPhone, iTV and who knows what else). That is the true goal, I believe, and that transparent transportability with iTunes-like ease of use will give Apple the long term advantage.

The aTV only needs to be useful to early adopters and Linux hackers and lazy folks with the extra money - basically the iPod buyers of a few years ago - until content hits a critical mass in a couple more years.

Until then Apple gets to tweak the GUI and play with its pay-to-own business model and try out new contracts with content providers - especially the growing Indie industry - and all the while Apple will get marginal profits and hopefully good customer response. Then once it has created some de facto standards for the infrastructure, the aTV ecosystem will be ready for the broader market.

Apple needs to wait it out a few years to jump past NetFlix, not try and compete with it head-to-head.

Apple needs to see how the DVR/TiVo market evolves in parallel to its own pay-to-own market and as long as it lets Miglia make boxes that fit beautifully with the aTV and MacMini, so much the better. Apple can walk side by side TiVo until the bandwidth makes TiVo redundant.

BTW, C-SPAN today is showing a Commerce Department Public Hearing regarding the future industry transition to digital TV and the digital TV coupon program. This transition will be putting alot of things up in the air with stores like Best Buy, etc., trying to educate their customers regarding where their broadcast source comes from and what it means. Best Buy gets alot of returned HDTV's because they don't automatically work with their cable provider. This point of education and making the transition painless is another point for Apple to exploit!
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post #68 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Apple is trying to do an end run around Tivo. If you are ABC TV, which is more attractive to you, viewers time shifting your programming using a DVR or viewers time shifting them by BUYING them off iTunes? If you are a TV content producer, there is no downside to making your shows available for sale on iTunes since anytime somebody time shifts your programs using a DVR you get paid the princely sum of zero, that's zero, dollars. An additional advantage for iTunes is that yo don't need to determine in advance what shows you wish to time shift. And episodes that were broadcast weeks ago are available.

That isn't quite true, networks don't make money off of the average person watching a program, they make money off of the Nielson families (or whatever) ratings which as I understand it determine the some form of sliding scale that advertisers pay by, and is not a full representation of the American viewing audience. Even if they did have a chip in every TV, OTA/Cable/Satelite, then you would still be counted as "viewing" the program if you recorded it because there is a tuner somewhere in your system that is tuned to the program to do the recording. The advantage for the networks in selling their shows via iTunes, DVD, or some other means is that it is an additional revenue source to the traditional advertising and syndication that they are able to take advantage of. In fact it is a source of revenue in between the original airing (paid for by advertising) and syndication, which usually doesn't happen for a few years after the show has been out allowing for reruns by the original network during off season which gains more advertising revenue.
post #69 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

I am already starting to encode my entire DVD (300 plus movies) collection to get ready for the AppleTV but it will be some time before I get one.

How do you encode it (what quality/Codec) and how much space do you need for it? I've got 400+ DVDs and think i will need to wait 2more years for a 2TB Harddisk
post #70 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally007 View Post

Why would anyone accept less than SD on HD [...]

Paraphrasing Gretzky, "Skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it is."

That is the current state of things. iTunes video started 09-MAY-2005, the G5 iPod (video) was released 12-OCT-2005 with 320x240 (QVGA) resolution. That was fine for the small device. On 12-SEPT-2006 Apple quadrupled its iTS video resolution to 640x480 (VGA) with the release of movies.

I think it's pretty obvious that Apple is planning to increase the max resolution even higher for the release of the AppleTV. I even feel that the delay of the appliance was not a manufacturing on, but a software and/or content related issue. I expect the resolution to go to 1280x720 (720p HD) the day of the AppleTV release.
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post #71 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

ROTFLMAO!

I mean please folks. April Fools Day isn't for two more weeks.

The possibility of Apple overtaking Tivo and Netflix is April Fools material?

Hmm, let's see... Tivo has a market cap of about $580 million and competes in a market with cable and satellite carriers that all have their own DVR boxes.

Netflix, which has a market cap of about $1.5 billion, is bleeding market share to Blockbuster and is trying to rework its business plan to do exactly what Apple is already doing, which is deliver movies to customers online.

If Apple thought these two companies were such threats, why hasn't it bought either of them? Both are relatively cheap and have been for more than a year. Answer: Neither have intellectual property that Apple needs to carry out an Apple TV strategy, Apple doesn't need a DVR to record programming broadcast by its competitors or 30 mail drop centers.

Put some facts where your mouth is.
post #72 of 115
i had no idea tivo only has 4.4m users, while ?tv is not equal it its specifications, it has the potential to capture a larger global market, and as others have said, it will be improved,
from what i see, it looks like apple could become a "cable content provider" on a world wide scale, huge potential there if they get it right, i mean here in oz we have 2 cable providers, optus and foxtel/austar, and soon ?tv via itunes, what a sneaky way to get in the cable industry without paying the license fee, and again on a world wide scale......wow
post #73 of 115
I am surprised by the number of responses. ThinkEquity seems to be totally ignorant of what Netflix and TiVo represent. Although there are some overlaps and potential for greater overlap exists, Apple TV, Netflix, and TiVo serve different needs.

As it currently stands, Apple TV is designed for:
  • Those wanting to stream music and/or photos to TV/home theater
  • Heavy iTunes Store video users
  • Die hard Apple fans
Markets it does not set out to serve (not in the present form anyway):
  • Home theater enthusiasts: lack of multi-channel surround sound (e.g., AC-3) and 1080p
  • Video streaming: does not support DiVX/XViD, FLV (YouTube), WMV, Real, MPEG-2 (DVD) -- you can transcode many of these, but often tedious process
  • Joe-six-pack: does not support older TV sets, no video rental model -- Netflix addresses this need better
  • Media server: limited hard disk space without expansion capability
  • DVR: Apple will not be make Apple TV to record TV shows.
post #74 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

I am surprised by the number of responses. ThinkEquity seems to be totally ignorant of what Netflix and TiVo represent. Although there are some overlaps and potential for greater overlap exists, Apple TV, Netflix, and TiVo serve different needs.

As it currently stands, Apple TV is designed for:
  • Those wanting to stream music and/or photos to TV/home theater
  • Heavy iTunes Store video users
  • Die hard Apple fans

Markets it does not set out to serve (not in the present form anyway):
  • Home theater enthusiasts: lack of multi-channel surround sound (e.g., AC-3) and 1080p
  • Video streaming: does not support DiVX/XViD, FLV (YouTube), WMV, Real, MPEG-2 (DVD) -- you can transcode many of these, but often tedious process
  • Joe-six-pack: does not support older TV sets, no video rental model
  • Media server: limited hard disk space without expansion capability

What is stopping Apple's QuickTime embedded in the AppleTV from transcoding to the system, on-the-fly?

HDMI Audio out handles the multi-channel support.

http://www.monstercable.com/MonsterW...icle_hdmi.html
post #75 of 115
I think these analysts are getting way ahead of themselves. Makes me worry that the stock is overpriced in a bubble.

The analyst is smoking something or a total idiot if he thinks a firmware update will give it DVR capability. You need a tuner, for either analog or digital TV. You need horsepower to encode the video (if from analog) which means hardware encoding or a much more powerful CPU than is included in the aTV. Current HDTV tuners for the Apple run $150. Hardware compressing analog tuners run $200. Hardly a trivial price increase for a $299 device.

I agree with others, that given no rental model there isn't much aTV is really going to affect. I'm afraid it will show up tomorrow as a non-event. Lots of hype that is likely going to fall flat. I hope I'm wrong.
post #76 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally007 View Post

They're pretty much making widescreen TV a must, which in most instances are also HD sets. Why would anyone accept less than SD on HD when they can have much better if they go other route. (Netflix and Tivo ) This is no iPod where design sells , nobody looks at their set up box , they look at the TV.

Yes...since we assume Apple is composed of bright folks they might have come to the same conclusion...SD on HDTVs suck.

So the logical answer is?

Granted Apple might end up not being able to offer 720p movies for whatever reasons, in which case aTV will be a fairly niche product at launch.

However, if they can offer 720p movies at a reasonable price (ie less than HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, not much above DVD) then it becomes a nice product with the potential of offering HDTV owners the ability to own (rather than rent or subscribe to) "good enough" HD content in comparison to HD-DVD/Blu-ray with a lower cost of entry than HD-DVD/Blu-Ray and Apple branding/iPod halo effect. 720p Cars is a nice title with lots of replay potential.

Niche vs Nice hinges on the H of HD.

Vinea
post #77 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

What is stopping Apple's QuickTime embedded in the AppleTV from transcoding to the system, on-the-fly?

Where is stated that AppleTV uses Quicktime's frameworks? We have yet to know what OS AppleTV has. Is it a beefed up iPod oS or a slimmed down OS X, or something altogether new. I, like many, do hope that it does use Quicktime as we will then be able to play the vast many audio and video formats not directly supported by iTunes.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #78 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

What is stopping Apple's QuickTime embedded in the AppleTV from transcoding to the system, on-the-fly?

HDMI Audio out handles the multi-channel support.

Transcoding audio on-the-fly is (1) resource intensive, (2) requires Apple to pay encoding license with each Apple TV sale, and (3) degrades audio quality unnecessarily.

HDMI is just a link not the solution.
post #79 of 115
Netflix has 8.8 million paying subscribers. Apple has sold 88 million ipods, 50 million TV episodes and over 1.3 million movies. So yes many itunes users but not as many itunes paying users, so there is a ways to go.

If anything, I think people are going to keep their Netflix, rip the movie and watch it through their Appletv.

All this talk about Appletv, it has gotten me interested in getting an ipod.
post #80 of 115
I think the biggest clue to these questions comes from Apple itself. Look at the lack of oomph with which this product is being rolled out. I live in New York City - which is inundated with iPod ads - I've yet to see a single public ad for AppleTV. During his keynote, Jobs himself seemed unconvinced of the product's usefulness and even hardcore Apple fans were baffled by the product's handicaps.

Apple IS just testing the waters for a new venture. They WANT this to ONLY be bought by Apple fanatics with money to burn. That allows them a small beta period during which they can earmark all of the products successes and failures and use them as a roadmap towards building the real killer app.

As many, many people have said - movie rental is going to be the single most important key in making this thing huge. People can live without DVR - I get it through my cable company for only $6 more a month. What I really want is to have movies at my fingertips.

Netflix has it's download service, which I've used and which, nicely, comes for free as part of their package. The movie selection is predictably crappy and it only works on Windows -- but I was able to boot my MacBook into Windows and watch a movie. The experience was similar to that of iTunes movies - mediocre.

Tivo sort of has a download service through Unbox - haven't used it yet, but I'm sure it's similar.

People NEED to be able to rent movies. Unless they really love a movie - people don't feel the need to own it. It's just clutter. And, unlike digital music which offers the convenience of portability -- digital movies ONLY offer the convenience of downloadability. Nobody needs portable movies, it's just a gimmicky iPod add-on (though portable TV shows are more palatable, since they are commute-length).

I would only consider buying about 5% of the movies I see. I RENT them precisely because I don't want to buy them and didn't want to pay $11 to see them in theaters. There is no sensible reason to buy them -- why own something I don't want or get stuck owning something I didn't even like?

If Apple launched this product with major deals for renting downloadable movies, I would have been an early adopter. If they had gone whole-hog and made it a DVR too - I would have ordered it the first day it was announced. As it stands, I'll let other folks help Apple work out the kinks. I think they DO have the opportunity to make a big impact, but I think that even they know that this isn't the time or the product for that.
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