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Apple's next-generation iMacs to add a touch of grace - Page 3

post #81 of 284
"AppleInsider has learned that Apple's popular line of iMac personal computers are about to undergo a substantial facelift that will showcase striking new industrial designs..."

Does this mean that technicians who have to repair these iMacs would rather strike them with a sledgehammer than waste time with the difficult to service design and overly complicated disassembly procedures? And whose idea was it to place the serial number labels UNDERNEATH the base of the unit, requiring people to turn the iMac upside down to read it?
post #82 of 284
This is certainly a popular thread. I just get here, and there are already 80 posts!

I'm also waiting for a "new" iMac to come out.
post #83 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

"AppleInsider has learned that Apple's popular line of iMac personal computers are about to undergo a substantial facelift that will showcase striking new industrial designs..."

Does this mean that technicians who have to repair these iMacs would rather strike them with a sledgehammer than waste time with the difficult to service design and overly complicated disassembly procedures? And whose idea was it to place the serial number labels UNDERNEATH the base of the unit, requiring people to turn the iMac upside down to read it?

Many serial numbers are in difficult to read places. Many devices have them on the bottom, or even inside the unit.
post #84 of 284
Maybe they could turn the chin area into a multi-touch control surface? Then we could keep our pristine 24" screens free from unsightly fingerprints! Just a thought.
post #85 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf the Semi-Coherent View Post

2. It's a great place to hang yellow sticky notes on occasion.

hmmm. You've seen my computer.

Something cooler is what we all hope for, but I still have nightmares of another ilamp or mac-cube. Having it a bit lighter would be nice. Carting the 20" to the store for repairs is no picnic. Read somewhere also Apple will be putting decoding/encoding chips into Macs - maybe we'll see them here first???

- J
post #86 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

new design coming.

heck it could just be 'black'. This says nothing.

Agreed. They could have saved a lot of type space and just said "New iMac design coming".

post #87 of 284
2004 was not the last redesign... When the iSight iMacs came out (G5's first, then put intel chips inside) they were MUCH lighter and skinnier. Very different. They removed the midplane to facilitate this. The backs were curved as opposed to the original iMac G5's, etc...

While a totally new redisign would be nice, I couldn't imagine how to make them smaller (leave it to Apple though!). As it is right now, it looks like a nomal LCD with a slot loading optical in it's side.

Can't wait...
post #88 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post

My quick call on specs:

17-inch 2GHz
1GB of RAM
Intel GMA X3000 graphics
DVD/CD-RW Combo drive
No Bluetooth or Front Row remote
$999

20-inch 2GHz
1GB of RAM
256MB ATI X2600 graphics
Superdrive
Bluetooth + Front Row
$1299

24-inch 2.2GHz
2GB of RAM
256MB GeForce 8500 GT grpahics
Superdrive
Bluetooth +Front Row
$1799

And before you think the prices are crazy: display prices are coming down, memory prices are coming down, and the next-gen graphics should cost somewhere in the ballpark of the old models.


Edit: 200th post.

$999 for a system with on board video is a joke.
post #89 of 284
Really, the iMacs are just giant white plastic squares, and the base completes the IKEA look...

I hope the redesign involves making them look more like a standard plasma tv, and less like giant plastic squares that you can clean with a garden hose.... (MacBook Pro finish, quality tv-style base)
post #90 of 284
I'd bet it will look like an ACD, with a small choice of colors like the iPod Nano. Metal is the logical choice, given it will act as a nice heatsink and it looks great.
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post #91 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

$999 for a system with on board video is a joke.

Joke_the_dragon
post #92 of 284
They will probably need somewhere to put the Apple logo, though. I can't see Apple entirely doing away with that prominent mark.
post #93 of 284
The "fat" in the current design is in the fact that it was originally built around the smaller screens and a desktop processor. It has a laptop processor now, and much more area to distribute the cruft.

Visually, it does make the screens look smaller, and it makes things look downright goofy if you try to mount in portrait mode.

My hopes is in much more of a "floating" feeling from all angles, and a VESA mount option across the size range. Touch screen would be a waste, unfortunately.
post #94 of 284
Apple has got some really cool new products. I just went to www.insaneplayers.com, and they have apple products as there prizes you can win. The i phone is awesome. check it out.
post #95 of 284
Yeah they have the logo on. It is just really hard to see. I guess it is the new thing to have it be the same color. Have you seen the apple tv? I saw a preview of it in my members control panel on insaneplayers.com. It is sweet.... [






QUOTE=melgross;1057547]They will probably need somewhere to put the Apple logo, though. I can't see Apple entirely doing away with that prominent mark.[/QUOTE]
post #96 of 284
I don't get what the joke is. I am an idiot though. Maybe you can explain it to a newbie. Thanks


Kris
insaneplayers.com





Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

Joke_the_dragon
post #97 of 284
I posted earlier on about hoping the 17'' model isnt removed too soon. Does anyone have any ideas when this could possibly happen?
post #98 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaiaquake View Post

I posted earlier on about hoping the 17'' model isnt removed too soon. Does anyone have any ideas when this could possibly happen?

Apparently the next iMac wont have a 17" version is what I gather. Remember = Rumor Mill. Nothing is concrete until Steve Jobs says there is no more 17 inch model ever, and then there is still the possibility of one used for the educational market. So it's too hard to say anything at this point. .
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post #99 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So even if new iMacs are using the latest Intel chipset, I don't recall reading about radical reductions in power consumption/heat, so how do you make everything smaller without it melting?

It's not about the latest intel chips being less hot than previous. It's about the current case being designed for g5 chips. Apple was very wise in transitioning most of their computers to Intel without changing the case - it made people less nervous (on both sides of the fence). Now they are free to continue with new designs.

Lets look at Apple's laptops.
1) Apple could not put a G5 into a laptop because of heat/power consumption issues.
2) Apple was able to put a Core2Duo into a laptop (though it's warm).
... and the Intel-iMac is currently the same form factor as the original G5-iMac

Also, Steve said that the Intel chips had more power per watt - it was a big reason for switching.
So certainly the iMac could be made smaller.
post #100 of 284
Hmm i've seen the suggested specs for the educational one and they dont look good. Maybe i should just get one pronto before they get rid of it.
post #101 of 284
We know the headless midrange tower won't appear anytime soon.
So I hope Apple will at least give us an iMac that will...

a) have an upgradeable video card (ha ha ha...yeah I know)
b) have a thin bezel like the cinema displays
c) more USB ports
d) give us the ability to use the internal display as a secondary monitor (ie. with a laptop).
post #102 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Apparently the next iMac wont have a 17" version is what I gather. Remember = Rumor Mill. Nothing is concrete until Steve Jobs says there is no more 17 inch model ever, and then there is still the possibility of one used for the educational market. So it's too hard to say anything at this point. .

as long as the 20" has the same price of the 17" I am fine with that.

20" is the new 17"!
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post #103 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

In order to get the intel transition done in a timely fashion, Apple outsourced much of the design of the iMac CoreDuo to intel. The iMac G5 was all done in house, hense the difference in design. My guess is that this revision might be done in house again and will clean up the insides to meet Apple's high stadards.

That would be a lovely theory but for one thing: it wasn't the PPC --> Intel move that produced the "un-serviceable" iMac.

The very first G5 iMac did not have an iSight built-in, and was highly serviceable. The back of the machine was flat and it was Vesa-mount compatible.

The redesigned G5 iMac that brought built-in iSight also introduced a thinner case with curved back, lost the Vesa-mount compatibility, and made the machine significantly harder to service. The Intel iMac kept this case design.
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post #104 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

We know the headless midrange tower won't appear anytime soon.
So I hope Apple will at least give us an iMac that will...

a) have an upgradeable video card (ha ha ha...yeah I know)
b) have a thin bezel like the cinema displays
c) more USB ports
d) give us the ability to use the internal display as a secondary monitor (ie. with a laptop).

I don't think the ability to upgrade the graphics card is particularly useful, but I think iMac users should have a few more choices in terms of which graphics cards to use. I would like to see a high-end card in there.
post #105 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

I don't think the ability to upgrade the graphics card is particularly useful, but I think iMac users should have a few more choices in terms of which graphics cards to use. I would like to see a high-end card in there.

Would indeed be nice to have more GPU options.
Something like a three step good(enough)/better/best option in the 24" model: 128MB/256MB/512MB (and corresponding better GPU) or skip the 128MB card entirely.
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post #106 of 284
Keeping the current 17" as an entry all-in makes financial sense for Apple and would be great for consumers.

I think that Apple could possibly go back to the first iMac LCD design or something similar, with the base as the main machine and an ultra-thin LCD.
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post #107 of 284
And what if the iMac also included some induction electronics to wirelessly recharge wireless keyboard & mouse?

The current problem with wireless keyboard & mouse is that they are not wireless: you have to plug in a sensor and plug the mouse/keyboard from time to time to recharge it.

The iMac with induction-recharging and included-receptor would free the iMac of two more connectors, more beautiful, more useful (it just works), like they integrated the webcam. Only Apple can do such seamless integration.

I do not know if this is technically doable. Perhapse not.
But there was a patent filled by Apple for wireless devices recharging, so one can dream :-)

Well, at least, of Apple is not studying this solution, I propose someone should tell them.
post #108 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebien View Post

And what if the iMac also included some induction electronics to wirelessly recharge wireless keyboard & mouse?

The current problem with wireless keyboard & mouse is that they are not wireless: you have to plug in a sensor and plug the mouse/keyboard from time to time to recharge it.

The iMac with induction-recharging and included-receptor would free the iMac of two more connectors, more beautiful, more useful (it just works), like they integrated the webcam. Only Apple can do such seamless integration.

I do not know if this is technically doable. Perhapse not.
But there was a patent filled by Apple for wireless devices recharging, so one can dream :-)

Well, at least, of Apple is not studying this solution, I propose someone should tell them.

It's certainly doable. The base would have to contain the charger. The keyboard would have to be pushed to the base, and perhaps lifted over a small bump at the front for it to overlap slightly, so that it would be in proper position. The mouse could be put flat on the base further back.

Apple's models don't plug in. They have to have the batteries changed every few months. I use the keyboard.

It's a matter of will on Apple's part.
post #109 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Everything except SLI. I doubt any Mac programs would be compiled specifically for it so it would be largely useless.

It doesn't look as good as Sony's 'iMac', which has no chin and the same spec as the iMac. Even if they get rid of it, you can still hang stickies off the bottom like other LCD owners.

I suspected that they would get rid of the 17" iMac after seeing the insides. I don't think they could design the 17" without a chin but the 20" and 24" are easy. All they have to do is reduce the price of the 20" by £300. Now if they offer GMA and a combo drive and a smaller HD in the lower model, I think they'd be able to pull that off. Even if it was just £200 cheaper, I'm sure people wouldn't mind paying an extra £100 for a 20" machine.

My only concern over losing the chin is that the iMac may sound worse. ATM, the iMac is the best sounding machine in Apple's lineup.

Ack! We have a chance to lose the chin and you're worried about sound?!? If you cared at all about sound you'd be using external speakers.

I agree that it should be possible to offer an entry level 20" and expect to see the 17" last no longer than this year's education buying season.

I realize desktop sales are falling and notebook sales are rising, but I still want a mid-tower. I honestly think its absence from the Mac lineup has held back a significant number of switchers who want neither an all-in-one nor a $2500 tower that needs server RAM.
post #110 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's certainly doable. The base would have to contain the charger. The keyboard would have to be pushed to the base, and perhaps lifted over a small bump at the front for it to overlap slightly, so that it would be in proper position. The mouse could be put flat on the base further back.

Apple's models don't plug in. They have to have the batteries changed every few months. I use the keyboard.

It's a matter of will on Apple's part.

I had in mind to keep the keyboard and the mouse on the desk, so the user do not have to do anything: devices are charged automatically, as you use them. It just work: you do not have to know that those devices need power ;-) Moreover, you can put a next-generation-still-to-be-revealed iPod near your screen and it wirelessly sync and charge (what a very good dream!).

I asked if it was possible for that: how far away the device can be from its charger?

But what you propose seams a good compromise. When you shutdown your Mac, once a month, you "dock" the keyboard and the mouse on the iMac. Not that disturbing.

But from a design point of view, the iMac would need to have something to dock the keyboard on, and that is not aestetical at all. So perhapse they will not do it.

Perhapse an iMac like that (the points are to take spaces into account:

Code:


....|
....|
....|\\
....|.\\
....|..\\
.......|
.\\_____/



The big "|" is the screen, the rest is the foot of the iMac.
You could box your keyboard in like that (the second "|" line):

Code:


....|
....|
....|\\
....|.\\
..|.|..\\
..|....|
.\\|___/



Just ideas
post #111 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's certainly doable. The base would have to contain the charger. The keyboard would have to be pushed to the base, and perhaps lifted over a small bump at the front for it to overlap slightly, so that it would be in proper position. The mouse could be put flat on the base further back.

Apple's models don't plug in. They have to have the batteries changed every few months. I use the keyboard.

It's a matter of will on Apple's part.

Whilst it's doable, it is IMHO a waste of engineering effort. For the process to work, the charging device (containing the primary coil that will couple to the coil in the device to be charged, e.g. a keyboard) and device to be charged have to be in physical contact, or at least, very very close to each other. Even then, the process is inefficient (you lose about 30-40% of the energy put into the charging device, i.e. only 50-60% of the input energy goes into actually charging the device to be charged).

Given this poor level of efficiency, the use of inductive charging for keyboards/mice is not only inelegant, it is environmentally irresponsible. Since you have to bring the charging device and device to be charged close together anyway, you may as well use a proper physical connection. Something along the lines of an electric kettle where the charging base has a male connector and the kettle a female connector would make charging the keyboard/mouse straightforward. Indeed, I fail to see how the use of inductive coupling instead makes the process any easier for the user.

In the case of toothbrushes, there is an advantage to inductive coupling due to the presence of water. With inductive coupling, there are no exposed metal contacts to get wet. Keyboard and mouse recharging has no such requirement.
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post #112 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Whilst it's doable, it is IMHO a waste of engineering effort. For the process to work, the charging device (containing the primary coil that will couple to the coil in the device to be charged, e.g. a keyboard) and device to be charged have to be in physical contact, or at least, very very close to each other. Even then, the process is inefficient (you lose about 30-40% of the energy put into the charging device, i.e. only 50-60% of the input energy goes into actually charging the device to be charged).

Ah... The devices need to be in physical contact each together...
That's where the magic is uncovered.

Forget the idea, then
post #113 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebien View Post

I had in mind to keep the keyboard and the mouse on the desk, so the user do not have to do anything: devices are charged automatically, as you use them. It just work: you do not have to know that those devices need power ;-) Moreover, you can put a next-generation-still-to-be-revealed iPod near your screen and it wirelessly sync and charge (what a very good dream!).

I asked if it was possible for that: how far away the device can be from its charger?

But what you propose seams a good compromise. When you shutdown your Mac, once a month, you "dock" the keyboard and the mouse on the iMac. Not that disturbing.

But from a design point of view, the iMac would need to have something to dock the keyboard on, and that is not aestetical at all. So perhapse they will not do it.

Perhapse an iMac like that (the points are to take spaces into account:

Code:


....|
....|
....|\\
....|.\\
....|..\\
.......|
.\\_____/



The big "|" is the screen, the rest is the foot of the iMac.
You could box your keyboard in like that (the second "|" line):

Code:


....|
....|
....|\\
....|.\\
..|.|..\\
..|....|
.\\|___/



Just ideas

While constant "trickle charging" is possible, the device has to be right on the charger. Induction requires almost total contact for it to be efficient. The power loss occurs as the square of the distance.

Most of the circuitry could be in the computer itself, with just the wires coming down in the foot. The coils could be in the foot. They wouldn't have to be thick, so the foot wouldn't have to be too thick, and the bump would only have to be an eighth of an inch high, just enough to lock the two together. not too much of a design esthetic problem.

But, the idea of a wireless keyboard and mouse is to allow them to be used somewhere else than the standard position. On your lap, for example.
post #114 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Whilst it's doable, it is IMHO a waste of engineering effort. For the process to work, the charging device (containing the primary coil that will couple to the coil in the device to be charged, e.g. a keyboard) and device to be charged have to be in physical contact, or at least, very very close to each other. Even then, the process is inefficient (you lose about 30-40% of the energy put into the charging device, i.e. only 50-60% of the input energy goes into actually charging the device to be charged).

Given this poor level of efficiency, the use of inductive charging for keyboards/mice is not only inelegant, it is environmentally irresponsible. Since you have to bring the charging device and device to be charged close together anyway, you may as well use a proper physical connection. Something along the lines of an electric kettle where the charging base has a male connector and the kettle a female connector would make charging the keyboard/mouse straightforward. Indeed, I fail to see how the use of inductive coupling instead makes the process any easier for the user.

In the case of toothbrushes, there is an advantage to inductive coupling due to the presence of water. With inductive coupling, there are no exposed metal contacts to get wet. Keyboard and mouse recharging has no such requirement.

I know all of that. That's why I said they had to be in contact. We discussed this issue in a previous thread, you might remember, about an induction charger that was constructed as a flat surfaced block. We didn't like that one.

Your reply should have been directed to Sebien, rather than to me.
post #115 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I know all of that. That's why I said they had to be in contact. We discussed this issue in a previous thread, you might remember, about an induction charger that was constructed as a flat surfaced block. We didn't like that one.

Your reply should have been directed to Sebien, rather than to me.

Sorry dude. Of course I'm aware of your background so would have thought you already knew all that. The only part of my post that was intended for you directly was the first short sentence. The rest was more of a general-information-for-everyone-who's-reading-the-thread sort of a thing rather than intended solely for your consumption. After all, this is a forum .
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post #116 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by gar View Post

Would indeed be nice to have more GPU options.
Something like a three step good(enough)/better/best option in the 24" model: 128MB/256MB/512MB (and corresponding better GPU) or skip the 128MB card entirely.

I'm not keen on having a "good/better/best" method. I really hate how the popular PC makers excessively long pages of options. I'm very involved with technology and I find it overwhelming, I can't imagine what the average consumer thinks.

However, I do think Apple should have two (and only two) GPU options for the iMac. I'd also like to see a new Quad2Duo Mac Cube with 3 or 4 options for a GPU, space for 2 HDDs and the ability for easy access to the afore mentioned hardware.
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post #117 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Sorry dude. Of course I'm aware of your background so would have thought you already knew all that. The only part of my post that was intended for you directly was the first short sentence. The rest was more of a general-information-for-everyone-who's-reading-the-thread sort of a thing rather than intended solely for your consumption. After all, this is a forum .

That's ok. It's just that he asked the question.
post #118 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm not keen on having a "good/better/best" method. I really hate how the popular PC makers excessively long pages of options. I'm very involved with technology and I find it overwhelming, I can't imagine what the average consumer thinks.

However, I do think Apple should have two (and only two) GPU options for the iMac. I'd also like to see a new Quad2Duo Mac Cube with 3 or 4 options for a GPU, space for 2 HDDs and the ability for easy access to the afore mentioned hardware.

Here's an interesting article on Apple's philosophy about designing systems and products vs Microsoft and the PC industry. The article starts with a product from a totally different company, then moves on.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/16/maga...ce=yahoo_quote

This next one gives another view of the same thing.

http://www.blackfriarsinc.com/blog/2...t-marketing-it

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post #119 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

It's not about the latest intel chips being less hot than previous. It's about the current case being designed for g5 chips. Apple was very wise in transitioning most of their computers to Intel without changing the case - it made people less nervous (on both sides of the fence). Now they are free to continue with new designs.

Lets look at Apple's laptops.
1) Apple could not put a G5 into a laptop because of heat/power consumption issues.
2) Apple was able to put a Core2Duo into a laptop (though it's warm).
... and the Intel-iMac is currently the same form factor as the original G5-iMac

Also, Steve said that the Intel chips had more power per watt - it was a big reason for switching.
So certainly the iMac could be made smaller.

The G5 iMacs ran pretty hot. People that had both the Intel and G5 units generally seem to say that the Intel based ones are cool and pretty much nearly silent, and the G5s weren't. I think the current limitation on the iMac thickness is the hard drive. I can see Apple switching to the notebook style drives in a year or two, that can knock out half an inch right there, as well as reduce the cooling needs a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

We know the headless midrange tower won't appear anytime soon.
So I hope Apple will at least give us an iMac that will...

a) have an upgradeable video card (ha ha ha...yeah I know)

The 24" units supposedly use MXM cards, but I hadn't found the pictures of the guts of the 24" model yet to know for sure.
post #120 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is certainly a popular thread. I just get here, and there are already 80 posts!...

You need to sleep less than the 2 hours a night you do, ya lazy bastard..!! 8)
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