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2008 - Page 3

post #81 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The only place that it has been "proven so time and time again" is in the tortuous rationalizations of supply side apologists, which I suppose accounts for why you are asserting as true here.

You might take a moment to read this article.

I imagine you'll find the source to be some kind of ghastly liberal lie-machine, but please note that the figures and quotations cited have footnotes and links, so you can check up on their math at your leisure.

It's not from a lie machine, it's just misguided written from an obvious anti-tax cut point of view.

Tax cuts stimulate the overall economy. You can quote per capita revenue growth all you want. the fact is that each time we've had major tax cuts in the last 50 years, there has been an economic expansion that follows. Revenues have gone up dramatically (overall revenues). Comparing the recent recovery, as the article does, to other recoveries is ridiculous. There is nothing that says a recovery is going to look the same each time.

From an ideological standpoint, I want to jump through my screen when the article says this:

Quote:
Deficit-Financed Tax Cuts May Cost Even More than Official Estimates

Cost? Cost? Tax cuts do NOT cost money. Jesus. If I hear one more liberal (or really anyone for that matter) tell me about about how we have to "pay for" a tax cut, I'll lose my mind. That's like saying I have to pay for the extra $50 a week I put into my savings account.

But I'm digressing. The pro-tax cut argument is not hard to understand. We have an economy that is based 2/3 on consumer spending. When people are allowed to keep more of their own money, they are able to spend and invest it. This caused economic growth. It really is that simple.
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post #82 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The only place that it has been "proven so time and time again" is in the tortuous rationalizations of supply side apologists, which I suppose accounts for why you are asserting as true here.

You might take a moment to read this article.

I imagine you'll find the source to be some kind of ghastly liberal lie-machine, but please note that the figures and quotations cited have footnotes and links, so you can check up on their math at your leisure.


Sorry but things like this just aren't present in SDW's universe.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #83 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Oh come on, this economy is awful! Unemployment is way way down, home ownership is up, real wages have increased, inflation is low, the DOW is running, people are investing, and treasury receipts are up. Those damn tax cuts have screwed up the country! Nothing could be more awful for a liberal democrat- the numbers that prove TAX CUTS WORK.


We're headed toward another serial recession according to Greenspan.

And the price of gas will make people poor again this summer. Well with the exception of the rich. Little things like this don't bother them. Especially if they own stock in an oil company.



Ps. Don't tell me you're talking to me again?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #84 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Ps. Don't tell me you're talking to me again?

I was conversing with the mostly-conversable BR, Thank you. You no longer rate. Good day.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #85 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

I was conversing with the mostly-conversable BR, Thank you. You no longer rate. Good day.

Mostly?

Funny. My quote was on your response.

Like on the movie " Aliens "?

" They come out at night. Mostly. "

Hehe!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

It's starting way, way too early, and I agree people are going to be so sick of it.

The only part where I disagree with you, Cosmonut, is where you refer to the parties being the same. I don't think anyone can look at where we are today and think it would be the same if Gore had been president.

Yea, we would be really fucked then!
post #87 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish1978 View Post

Yea, we would be really fucked then!


Or we might be a lot better off.

I pick the last one.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #88 of 107


Thread Quasi-Necromancy, on the next GERALDO...
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #89 of 107
Oh, right, like the Republicans would be fine with the armies of the dead getting all the jobs and getting paid in brains.

Wait, I think that might have already happened.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #90 of 107
" Brains! "
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post #91 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

" Brains! "


jimmac

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #92 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

jimmac



God what a missed opportunity!

You could have put the " Strawman " who wants a brain!
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post #93 of 107
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/....ap/index.html

The republicans still support it. Bush will likely veto the troops coming home. They're still spewing rhetoric like " You don't support the troops ". When actually they do in wanting to bring them home and out of this meaningless conflict that we shouldn't even be in.

The democrats want them home. The american people have indicated they are fed up with Iraq. Do the math and guess which party will have a president in the Whitehouse next time?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #94 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You have to be kidding.

"George Bush is the biggest terrorist in the World" (Bellafonte)

That all depends on how one defines 'terrorism'. The FBI definition reads "Terrorism is the use or threatened use of force designed to bring about political change". The Iraq war, being based on a series lies for "justification, fits neatly into that definition, especially when considering that the vast and overwhelming majority of Iraqi injuries and fatalities were/are innocent civilians (ie non-combatants), and the US military, on the orders of the Pentagon and Commander in Chief, deliberately targeted civilians and civilian infrastructure. The attack on Iraq was undoubtedly an act of international terrorism with a massive budget.. but George Bush being the "biggest" terrorist? That's a meaningless statement.

Quote:
"Republicans are evil" (Dean)

A stupid, idiotic piece of school-boy overgeneralization. And patently false.

Quote:
"Republicans have never made an honest [living]" (Dean)

Another ridiculous blanket overgeneralization.

Quote:
"George Bush hates black people" (K. West)

That sounds like a statement made in an unguarded moment of extreme anger and frustration, but not quite realistic. What he could have said, was "the Bush Administration's sickening role in ignoring the plight of the mostly black population of New Orleans hints at institutional racism. Homeland Security chief Chertoff should have been fired so many times for his part in one of the grossest pieces of deliberate and criminal negligence on the part of a government department in US history". But thats kinda unrappable, unless he likes to sing in odd time signatures like 29:16 (!)

Quote:
"He betrayed this country. He played on our fears" (Gore)

Spot on. And his statement remains relevant.

Quote:
"The President concocted a war for political gain" (Kennedy)

Almost. The Iraq war was planned long before 9/11, as was the war against Afghanistan.

Quote:
"He is lying bastard".

Lying, yes. But why include invective?

Quote:
He's filth-spewing.

Oh please....

Quote:
A terrorist.

Undoubtedly.

Quote:
Fuehrer.



Quote:
"Guilty of blatant genocide."

I would love to see him and his thugs in front of the International Criminal Court, so they could determine that verdict but the US doesn't recognize this court... hmmmmm, I wonder why? Yes, I would love to see him (and the rest of the Neocon thugs) have their day in court.

Quote:
"Death of a President." Oh but hey...it's art.

Imagine that "Death of a President" featured Bill Clinton's demise, or a possible Democrat successor to Bush. O.M.G! Now that would be art, wouldn't it... I can hear Ann Coulter and the legions of hate-mongers on talk radio saying stuff like: "Oh, get a life you liberal wimps, its just a movie".
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #95 of 107
post #96 of 107
Sammi:

Quote:
That all depends on how one defines 'terrorism'. The FBI definition reads "Terrorism is the use or threatened use of force designed to bring about political change". The Iraq war, being based on a series lies for "justification, fits neatly into that definition, especially when considering that the vast and overwhelming majority of Iraqi injuries and fatalities were/are innocent civilians (ie non-combatants), and the US military, on the orders of the Pentagon and Commander in Chief, deliberately targeted civilians and civilian infrastructure. The attack on Iraq was undoubtedly an act of international terrorism with a massive budget.. but George Bush being the "biggest" terrorist? That's a meaningless statement.

1. There has not been evidence offered that demonstrates the Bush Administration lied with respect to WMD. There has been conjecture, accusations, etc. There has been nothing that demonstrates the notion as fact.

2. We do not delibrately target civilians. That is patently false.

3. Terrorism by its nature is not carried about by the armies of nations. It's carried out by rogue factions. You can oppose the war, decry civilians deaths and even make the accusation that it was based on lies, but calling it "terrorism" is absurd.

Quote:
A stupid, idiotic piece of school-boy overgeneralization. And patently false.....

Another ridiculous blanket overgeneralization.

It's more than that...both attacks are indefensible.

Quote:
That sounds like a statement made in an unguarded moment of extreme anger and frustration, but not quite realistic. What he could have said, was "the Bush Administration's sickening role in ignoring the plight of the mostly black population of New Orleans hints at institutional racism. Homeland Security chief Chertoff should have been fired so many times for his part in one of the grossest pieces of deliberate and criminal negligence on the part of a government department in US history". But thats kinda unrappable, unless he likes to sing in odd time signatures like 29:16 (!)

Again, it's indefensible and goes far beyond any of the "racist" statements made by Republicans as of late. I think your characterization of the administration playing a "sickening role" is totally off base, but I realize I'll never change that perception you hold.

Quote:
Spot on. And his statement remains relevant.

He betrayed the country? Really...betrayed. You mean, because you disagree with the administration? But beyond that..it's not so much about whether you and I agree on the statement, it's about whether or not it's appropriate and in good taste for the immeidate past VP of the United States to make it...screaming all the way.

Quote:
Almost. The Iraq war was planned long before 9/11, as was the war against Afghanistan

Oh stop. Even if that was true, it's not the same as concocting a war for political gain. Oh, and once more...this was a sitting US Senator making that charge in a time of war. I suppose that's perfectly fine with you though.

Quote:
I would love to see him and his thugs in front of the International Criminal Court,

Thugs? Not sure there's any response to be offered to that other than...
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post #97 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Sammi:Oh stop. Even if that was true, it's not the same as concocting a war for political gain. Oh, and once more...this was a sitting US Senator making that charge in a time of war. I suppose that's perfectly fine with you though.

I won't re-reply to all points... its gone too many stages (!).. but here's a link to the invasion of Iraq being on the Bush Administration's "wish list", or "things to do" a long, long time before "a time of war": some 10 days after Bush's inauguration, and a full 8 months before the 9/11 attacks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in592330.shtml
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #98 of 107
Well alot of what dubbya does in response will reflect in the next election.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18269912/

And at this point it may not make a difference anyway.

The clock's ticking.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #99 of 107
post #100 of 107
Hillary Clinton's lying on Myspace when she sent out a bulletin tonight saying she had more Myspace friends than any other candidate. Obama has more than 3 times the number of Myspace friends than she does. Sheesh.
post #101 of 107
Well since yesterday's veto I guess you all know which party will be in the Whitehouse next time.
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post #102 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well since yesterday's veto I guess you all know which party will be in the Whitehouse next time.

Libertarian?
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #103 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

Libertarian?

As a realist and even though I'm regisitered independent and my parents were Libertarians I'd have to say Democrat.
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post #104 of 107
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18496484/

This is something that I've been afraid of.

Some people don't like Clinton simply because she's a woman or Obama because he's black.

So instead of letting the people decide and vote for change they'll settle things with a gun.

It says alot about the mentality of some of the people out there.

Ps. It was a real toss up either this thread or the gun thread.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #105 of 107
Don't all cream in your pants at once.... MSNBC vote poll says that Ron Paul ran away in the debate.

In other news: Libertarians hang out on the World Wide Web and skew online polls. Film at 11.
post #106 of 107
A telling poll and article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18505030/site/newsweek/

Like I've been saying it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.
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post #107 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18496484/

This is something that I've been afraid of.

Some people don't like Clinton simply because she's a woman or Obama because he's black.

So instead of letting the people decide and vote for change they'll settle things with a gun.

It says alot about the mentality of some of the people out there.

Ps. It was a real toss up either this thread or the gun thread.

Now that's a profound observation.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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