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DigiTimes: Apple may delay Leopard release till October - Page 2

post #41 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuku View Post

Wasn't it stated by Apple that BootCamp would not be intergrated into Leopard....I think this rumor is a little far fetched.

No. It was stated by Apple that they weren't going to integrate virtualisation - that they'd leave that to Parallels and VMware.

The first paragraph on Apple's Boot Camp page clearly states that Boot Camp will be included in Leopard.
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post #42 of 101
What!! Leopard dealyed???? From the day Steve said "Spring," I have been waiting to upgrade, now this?????

Digitimes?

Uh, nevermind.
post #43 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToe View Post

The list goes on. Many of these are major applications that never saw the light of day until their 1.0 was unveiled.

Why does everyone assume that Apple has to run Leopard's secret features past developers before revealing them?

History proves just the opposite. When Apple has something really juicy to reveal, they keep it hidden until they release it. And then they release a 1.0.1 and so on to address anything that the public discovers after the release.

Agreed. To take it a step further: didn't everyone say that Vista RC1 was really unstable, and then a "stable" RC2 came out a short time later? If MS can pull something like that off, certainly Apple can as well. Ultimately, you never know what's really going on behind the doors in Cupertino.

I think the DigiTimes prediction is total BS, too. If Apple released Boot Camp as an update to Tiger, surely they can release a patch for Vista if one was necessary - for Tiger as well as Leopard. There's no reason to wait six months for such a trivial feature. Talk about incompetent journalism. What is DigiTimes, the tabloid of tech?
post #44 of 101
Ridiculous. Apple isn't trying to win XP -> Vista Switchers, they're trying to prevent XP -> Vista Switchers. Recall Apple's scare-tactic "I'm a Mac" ad where PC is undergoing surgury... They're using OS X as an alternative to the treacherous switch to Vista.

People who have already switched to Vista are likely the die-hard Windows fanboys (or the ignorant) who would never consider switching to OS X.

My father, although historically die-hard, is hesitating to upgrade to Vista. Now would be Apple's time to strike in order to win people like him. If, on the other hand, he had already upgraded, he would say, "I just upgraded to Vista, I'm not switching to another type of computer altogether. Also, I'm diappointed in you for following that hippie, son," and I would say, "I'm an adult now, dad, I can make my own choices!!" and he would say, "You're still a naive fool! I'm a failure for raising you like crap. Get out of my house!"

*tears well up*

Daddy never loved me!

-Clive
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post #45 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToe View Post

Some features and applications that Apple has released without ANY public testing, even by developers:
  • GarageBand
  • iPhoto
  • iTunes
  • Pages
  • Backup
  • Keynote
  • iMovie
  • Aperture
  • iWeb
  • Photo Booth
The list goes on. Many of these are major applications that never saw the light of day until their 1.0 was unveiled.

Why does everyone assume that Apple has to run Leopard's secret features past developers before revealing them?

History proves just the opposite. When Apple has something really juicy to reveal, they keep it hidden until they release it. And then they release a 1.0.1 and so on to address anything that the public discovers after the release.

A bit of a difference between applications and the entire OS.

Features that are apparently secret are going to be fully integrated into the OS. They WILL need testing.
post #46 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Can anyone point to any rumour story ever, about anything from Digitimes that has turned out to be correct?

What?! You mean that I should stop waiting for my G5 PowerBook?
post #47 of 101
They better not hold off until October because of Vista, the heck with Vista, do that in version 10.5.1 or 10.5.2.

Delay for other reasons, but not for Vista.
post #48 of 101
Eh, I don't even care anymore. It is what it is.
post #49 of 101
People have been booting Vista in Boot Camp for almost a year now. And the whole point of Boot Camp is that you are booting an entirely different OS - there is no "integration" between the two OSes (unlike Parallels, where they run side-by-side).

The idea that Apple would delay their flagship product to add functionality to Boot Camp that already exists is completely absurd. Fortunately, Digitimes has a historical track record of 0% accuracy. You might as well quote something Mac OS Rumors - it's that unreliable. Why Appleinsider sees it fit to publish is beyond me. Must be a really slow Friday.
post #50 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by abrooks View Post

A bit of a difference between applications and the entire OS.

Features that are apparently secret are going to be fully integrated into the OS. They WILL need testing.

It's hard to say without knowing the scale and impact of the features, assuming the secret features do exist. A lot of apps are included with the OS that don't have an impact on the OS itself. The extra secret features could be major updates to iCal, address book, iSync, or some other app that doesn't need a new or modified framework to operate, or that it might need a new framework that's not needed by other apps.
post #51 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I think it will be deayed but for other reasons. It just ain't gonna be ready.



I really hope that Apple does not start to follow M$ by delaying its OS for months and months because they cant get it right...

Im thinking that theres either got to be a really top rated special feature that will be worth waiting for ( using .exe within OSX native ) or even "SWITCHING" between OS like switching users ??

If theres not a top rated feature that makes us go Wow! I will be really disappointed.
Ben

"I'm Still waiting for Leopard before i buy a new mac"
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Ben

"I'm Still waiting for Leopard before i buy a new mac"
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post #52 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

They don't. Or at least, I don't. What I was pointing out is that builds that are released to developers are betas.

More like Alphas
post #53 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Nelson View Post

using .exe within OSX native

That's highly unlikely*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Nelson View Post

or even "SWITCHING" between OS like switching users

and Apple have unequivocally stated that virtualisation won't be in Leopard, so that'd rule that out.


*
1.) Since apple aren't interested in virtualisation, that'd suggest they aren't interested in this either.

2.) Have you used crossover? It's not pleasant. The idea basically involves developing a whole new OS from scratch according to design specifications that you have to reverse-engineer. Not a recipe for a quick development with low bug levels and high compatibility rates.
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post #54 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

More like Alphas

Good point, given that they don't have all the features.
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post #55 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

What?! You mean that I should stop waiting for my G5 PowerBook?

I would cancel the order, according to secret sources (???), The G7 PowerBook is coming, It will run at 6 Ghz, and ue Hidrogen cooling.
post #56 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by abrooks View Post

A bit of a difference between applications and the entire OS.

Features that are apparently secret are going to be fully integrated into the OS. They WILL need testing.

Where did you get that? I didn't hear Steve say "fully integrated." Only "secret features."

Things like iSync, Mail.app, and iChat technically features of the OS. But IIRC they were not revealed until release.
post #57 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Nelson View Post

top rated special feature that will be worth waiting for ( using .exe within OSX native )

Tiger already has full and complete support for .exe and .com files. have you ever tried double clicking on one of those?

It is perfect, it always does the right thing, which happens to be nothing.

Why would I want to run a set of virus infested, flea infested set of exe files?
post #58 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

Tiger already has full and complete support for .exe and .com files. have you ever tried double clicking on one of those?

It is perfect, it always does the right thing, which happens to be nothing.

Why would I want to run a set of virus infested, flea infested set of exe files?

On my Mac, clicking on an .EXE launches the application inside Windows. Been doing that since Jaguar on a G4.
post #59 of 101
Speaking of Vista, this article is a GEM
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...licensing.html
post #60 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

On my Mac, clicking on an .EXE launches the application inside Windows. Been doing that since Jaguar on a G4.

I guess your G4 is infected, LOL.
post #61 of 101
I'd rather them delay the release rather than put out a OS release that isn't quite ready. I don't like being a beta tester for Apple. Tiger is working just fine, no need to rush.
post #62 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

Why would I want to run a set of virus infested, flea infested set of exe files?

That's assuming they are. I have never infected a Windows computer, with exes or otherwise.
post #63 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

They don't. Or at least, I don't. What I was pointing out is that builds that are released to developers are betas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

They don't. Or at least, I don't. What I was pointing out is that builds that are released to developers are betas.

Not necessarily. By definition beta means "The last software testing phase before a production rollout"

Obviously it doesn't or is not required that a developer conduct external testing. As we know, Apple has been quite secretive about most things until they are ready to and whether or not any external testing is every done is either not divulged or limited in nature. Either way, we really don't know. However, if the developer doesn't call them betas, I wouldn't. It is not my job to do so.

For sure, if there are more features of the product as Job's stated that are being kept secret, the current set of builds does not fit the definition. Unless of course, Apple has already tested them and has blocked their functionality from the group of testers.

As well, I would be hard pressed to take anybody's word that they have seen or are part of the builds that have been released for testing. I feel assured that you, like me, having the privilege to be part of that program would certainly curtail us from disclosing any informatin that would expose ourself to possible litigation for not complying to the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) that we would have had to sign.

Like you, I too agree they are more like alphas. And until the summer solstice, Leopard is on schedule.
post #64 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Nelson View Post

Wow!

Only Microsofties wow!! Please make sure you save the WWDC07 date.


So, what's gonna happen in October?:

1- my Bday!
2- an all new video iPod with touchscreen!!
post #65 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

By definition beta means "The last software testing phase before a production rollout"

I disagree.

A beta is a build of a codebase with a particular set of intended functionality. If that build turns out to be perfect, it is no longer a beta and can be released/used etc. If not, changes to the code are made, it's rebuilt, and the cycle continues.

The 9A builds of OS X (Leopard) have a particular set of intended functionality. This set of functionality is the same whether it's build 9A1 or 9A8479, the difference between these builds is that 9A1 didn't achieve the intended set of functionality due to bugs in the code or due to poor implementation. The seeds being released to developers are 9A codebase betas.

Strictly speaking, the 9A builds that have been released to developers are alphas (i.e. pre-beta) of 10.5.0 because they don't have the full intended functionality set of the 10.5.0 release.
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post #66 of 101
I'm assuming DigiTimes beat it's writer day and night for a month with a stupid stick before they wrote that bit of speculation.

They have some ulterior motive they are trying to serve with this bit of BS.
post #67 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I disagree.

As I stated, "Not necessarly."

As the saying goes, "a rose by any other name is still a rose."

My point was that only the developer can call it beta or alpha or anything else that they may want. Some define alpha for versions being tested by third-parties but being conducted internally vs. beta if the testers are doing it off site. Go figure. So I take back my previous definition in part.

Either way, there is no set ground rules and definitions vary considerably. For sure, there is no requirement or law that the software be completely functional as planned for a release to be called a beta version.

So, I can also state, I don't necessarily disagree.
post #68 of 101
Leopard will ship by June people. Unless Apple wants to delay the iPhone also, which is obviously running Leopard, and have tremendous egg on their face I don't see reason for concern. I never expected Leopard at Macworld, or any time shortly thereafter. Spring, which just started btw is when Apple said they'll ship, and what reason do we have to doubt them? The notion that Apple would delay their OS to support Vista in some fashion is patently absurd!
post #69 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevalierMalFet View Post

I'm assuming DigiTimes beat it's writer day and night for a month with a stupid stick before they wrote that bit of speculation.

They have some ulterior motive they are trying to serve with this bit of BS.

The motivation is that anytime they post something about Macs, they get kajillions of hits from Mac fanatics.

It's a proven (if slimy) business/marketing tactic in the tech world... Mac users have a, ahem, bit of a reputation.
post #70 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

Apple never said Leopard would be ready by April. They said "Spring", which is anytime between two days ago and June 20th. If they release it prior to June 20th, there's no delay.

Which Spring? Apple's 4th Quarter ends in August, but that is the end of Summer. We'll go with seasonal Spring conditions to make your statement have validation, but don't confuse the two.

Either way, the WWDC sessions chalk full of new Cocoa for Leopard exposed APIs makes it clear that the teams are comfortable with the development of these APIs and that they are reaching a level of maturity that will satisfy GM.
post #71 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I disagree.

A beta is a build of a codebase with a particular set of intended functionality. If that build turns out to be perfect, it is no longer a beta and can be released/used etc. If not, changes to the code are made, it's rebuilt, and the cycle continues.

The 9A builds of OS X (Leopard) have a particular set of intended functionality. This set of functionality is the same whether it's build 9A1 or 9A8479, the difference between these builds is that 9A1 didn't achieve the intended set of functionality due to bugs in the code or due to poor implementation. The seeds being released to developers are 9A codebase betas.

Strictly speaking, the 9A builds that have been released to developers are alphas (i.e. pre-beta) of 10.5.0 because they don't have the full intended functionality set of the 10.5.0 release.

I don't think your original poster realizes that one can have several Release Candidates that reach Gamma level and that the public dev builds being on par with Betas.
post #72 of 101
For anyone looking for clarification on what Beta is generally understood to mean, may I suggest...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwar...ase_life_cycle

post #73 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToe View Post

For anyone looking for clarification on what Beta is generally understood to mean, may I suggest...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwar...ase_life_cycle


Compounded by others as stated in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing
post #74 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToe View Post

The motivation is that anytime they post something about Macs, they get kajillions of hits from Mac fanatics.

It's a proven (if slimy) business/marketing tactic in the tech world... Mac users have a, ahem, bit of a reputation.

So what does that say about sites that pick up these stories?
post #75 of 101
I personally think this rumor is bunk! There is no way Steve Jobs or Apple would delay the release of it's Next Generation operating system for the sole purpose of interoperating/integrating more Microsoft functionality. To even suggest such a notion is laughable. Thousands of people are switching to the mac platform every month, not because it runs some variant of Windows, but rather the functionality of Mac OS X. Switcher's do appreciate the ability to dual boot, or virtualize windows on a Mac, but ultimatly they've switched for the Mac OS X experience. If you're utilizing the dual OS functionality of an Apple system, its for one or two programs you can't seem to find for Mac OS X. I don't think switcher care whether they can run the latest Windows varient, just so long as they can access some data or functionality from some software that won't "currently" run on Mac OS X.
post #76 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

So what does that say about sites that pick up these stories?

The thing about AppleInsider is that its forum allows the story to be debated. Digitimes appears to be a significant publication, even if it is always wrong. I think it's good that AppleInsider picks up on their stories, so that we can all point out what a load of rubbish they all are.
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post #77 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by toneloco28 View Post

Leopard will ship by June people. Unless Apple wants to delay the iPhone also, which is obviously running Leopard, and have tremendous egg on their face I don't see reason for concern. I never expected Leopard at Macworld, or any time shortly thereafter. Spring, which just started btw is when Apple said they'll ship, and what reason do we have to doubt them? The notion that Apple would delay their OS to support Vista in some fashion is patently absurd!

There is nothing about the Leopard that would cause a delay of the iphone. Just because the big cat is delayed doesn't mean the version of the software for the phone also has to be delayed. Leopard for the iPhone isn't being released as a general product.

And also remember that most iPhone users will probably be Windows users, so there's no need for software specific in Leopard for it to work.
post #78 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It's hard to say without knowing the scale and impact of the features, assuming the secret features do exist. A lot of apps are included with the OS that don't have an impact on the OS itself. The extra secret features could be major updates to iCal, address book, iSync, or some other app that doesn't need a new or modified framework to operate, or that it might need a new framework that's not needed by other apps.

I never have considered the apps that Apple includes with OS X to be part of the OS (sorry, but a Mail app is a Mail app, its not something that should be tied to an OS release).

But your list a great example of why even separate 'apps' need to go to developers. A super-secret update to Mail or iCal can easily break third-party add-ons to such products that can cause a world of hurt. There could be changes that break communications to certain servers that don't get tested until its out the door.

And look at iSync. Maybe something like that might be a great feature, but without giving developers time to get the software to work with their peripherals, it just sits in the Apps folder doing nothing.

And what is the point of keeping the so-called super-secret features super-secret? If they're any good, the ideas are going get duplicated for Tiger and Windows. You can't stop it. And if they aren't good, you're just setting yourself up to be mocked.
post #79 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

I never have considered the apps that Apple includes with OS X to be part of the OS (sorry, but a Mail app is a Mail app, its not something that should be tied to an OS release).

But they are so they're candidates for these features. They're tied to the release because they require the release and they help sell the OS and hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

And what is the point of keeping the so-called super-secret features super-secret?

The Buzz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

If they're any good, the ideas are going get duplicated for Tiger and Windows. You can't stop it.

But they can be delayed - significantly - therefore creating more potential sales for Leopard for the people who want those features.
post #80 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


"Boot Camp is an Apple software application that currently assists in the installation of Windows XP on computers using Apple's latest OS," the publication said. "The company hopes with support for Vista, Mac computers using the new OS can grab more market share, according to the sources."

DigiTimes, whose accuracy in prediction Apple's future directions is mediocre at best, cited its sources in saying that if Leopard supports only Windows XP, then the chances of the new OS attracting Windows users to buy an Apple computer decreases.
][/url][/c]

This is total nonsense. Vista works today and works well. I'm running Vista x64 with absolutely no problems, and have been since December. If they are going to delay it, it won't be because of Vista.

K.W.
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