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Iran Captures and Holds British Sailors - Page 9

post #321 of 367
4/6/07 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Seg:

Oh, I agree. I'm just saying that it doesn't exactly equate to what Iran's doing.

Which is?
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post #322 of 367
4/6/07 at 10:18am
Hey, I love my country as much as the next guy. That doesn't mean I'm not realistic with the idea that my country has pulled some fucked up shit. So don't get your panties in a bunch when I don't swing my American flag when we take a hypocritical stand on being morally superior.

We all have to live on this planet together. And it's not Planet America.
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post #323 of 367
4/6/07 at 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Hey, I love my country as much as the next guy. That doesn't mean I'm not realistic with the idea that my country has pulled some fucked up shit. So don't get your panties in a bunch when I don't swing my American flag when we take a hypocritical stand on being morally superior.

We all have to live on this planet together. And it's not Planet America.

Oh Blah. Sure we've done "fucked up shit." But compared to Iran, we are morally superior.
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post #324 of 367
4/6/07 at 10:52am
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post #325 of 367
4/6/07 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh Blah. Sure we've done "fucked up shit." But compared to Iran, we are morally superior.

Yeah...tell it like it is bro.....

1) Kidnapping and extraordinary rendition - check
2) Detention without charge and trial - check
3) Invasion of sovereign States on false evidence - check
4) Torture - check
5) Arming and support of terrorist groups while claiming 'moral superiority' - check
6) Support of fascist oppressors - check
7) Supplying Fascist regimes with torture equipment - check

And on and on and on and on......
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post #326 of 367
4/6/07 at 12:13pm
Ho hum. Business as usual. Before anyone takes that out of context, I really do believe what the sailors are saying, er reading, uh...\



Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said.
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post #327 of 367
4/6/07 at 12:34pm
I don't get what Drudge and the rest of the conservative media are getting at. Are they saying, "See, Iran tortures too!" Are they saying, "Their treatment is an outrage!"
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post #328 of 367
4/6/07 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Segoivous View Post

... - thank God the kidnapped sailors were British actually or we would have had Wild Bill Bush 'cleaning up town' with all guns blazing and a body-count that would have the wingers reaching for the Kleenex a bit prematurely....

Much as I hate people selectively taking bits of journalist pieces to form a hotch-potch to support their own arguments.. I just had to do it..

Quote:
As the sailors and marines told their stories, the Guardian learned that the US had offered to buzz Iran with fighter jets during the impasse. Diplomatic sources said that at the height of the stand-off, Pentagon officials offered a series of military options, including for US combat aircraft to mount aggressive patrols over Iranian Revolutionary Guard bases. The British declined and told the Pentagon to calm the situation by staying out of it and tone down military exercises in the Gulf .
Someone said, 'Lads, I think we're going to be executed.


Amen, thank god they were from the UK.
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post #329 of 367
4/6/07 at 6:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I don't get what Drudge and the rest of the conservative media are getting at. Are they saying, "See, Iran tortures too!" Are they saying, "Their treatment is an outrage!"

Iran's actions were outrageous. They entered Iraqi waters and took hostages...people from a uniformed legitimate army. They interrogated them and coerced confessions. They violated they Geneva Conventions, which clearly applied. This was an act of war, Northgate. And they'll be no punishment. In fact, they'll be rewarded. Just watch.
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post #330 of 367
4/6/07 at 6:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yeah...tell it like it is bro.....

1) Kidnapping and extraordinary rendition - check
2) Detention without charge and trial - check
3) Invasion of sovereign States on false evidence - check
4) Torture - check
5) Arming and support of terrorist groups while claiming 'moral superiority' - check
6) Support of fascist oppressors - check
7) Supplying Fascist regimes with torture equipment - check

And on and on and on and on......

1. Kidnapping? You mean Iranian operatives in Iraq? That's "kidnapping?"

2. Brilliant...let's give terror suspects access to the criminal court system. We treated terror like a law enforcement operation during the 1990's...how did that turn out for us?

3. Torture? A dubious claim. Mistreatment perhaps? Yes, in some instances. Tough interrogation? Yes.

4. I feel like everyone who makes this claim has tears in his eyes when he says it for some reason. A sovereign state...Jesus.

5. Oh stop. We've been through this three times now. The MEK does not compare to Iran's support of terror for the last 30 years.

6. Such as?

7. See #6.
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post #331 of 367
4/6/07 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh Blah. Sure we've done "fucked up shit." But compared to Iran, we are morally superior.

That is questionable at best.

Silly at worst.

It' ignores some of the " Fucked up shit " we've been doing. And let's face it we've got more power to do it with.
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post #332 of 367
4/6/07 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Iran's actions were outrageous. They entered Iraqi waters and took hostages...people from a uniformed legitimate army. They interrogated them and coerced confessions. They violated they Geneva Conventions, which clearly applied. This was an act of war

Sounding a bit rabid Mr Wacko from US.

US media don't decide if a border incident (and the ugly rest) between UK and Iran is an act of war or not. Tough luck ;-)..


It's like I can't believe you guys even exist. Seriously, we see Bush and we know what he does. But it's AMAZING to interact with people who see the world the same way (i.e. with their eyes to close together).
The ones who re-elected one of the bigest jokes ever.
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post #333 of 367
4/6/07 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerDigby View Post

Sounding a bit rabid Mr Wacko from US.

US media don't decide if a border incident (and the ugly rest) between UK and Iran is an act of war or not. Tough luck ;-)..


It's like I can't believe you guys even exist. Seriously, we see Bush and we know what he does. But it's AMAZING to interact with people who see the world the same way (i.e. with their eyes to close together).
The ones who re-elected one of the bigest jokes ever.

You take care of Bush-loving Tony-boy and the Queen. We'll take care of Bush on our side of the pond. We promise not to invade you.
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post #334 of 367
4/7/07 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

We promise not to invade you.

And it's one promise that can actually be kept - the UK is already pacified and established as the 51st State long, long ago so there's no need....no need at all.......
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post #335 of 367
4/7/07 at 2:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

And it's one promise that can actually be kept - the UK is already pacified and established as the 51st State long, long ago so there's no need....no need at all.......

Wel my dear Segovious,

It's actually the other way around.

The USA is still tied to the apron strings of mother England.

Why else would those Yanky Colonials show such groveling respect for the Royal Brit Family...(who after all are just a bunch of minor Hun royalty)...?

On a side note...(correct me if I am wrong) but I think the Yanks even had their own Tory and Whig parties..which still exist...

In any case, they're no different than any other jumped up British colony; just like Australia, India and Palestine.

That should get the fur flying....

Aquafire.
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post #336 of 367
4/7/07 at 4:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerDigby View Post

Sounding a bit rabid Mr Wacko from US.

US media don't decide if a border incident (and the ugly rest) between UK and Iran is an act of war or not. Tough luck ;-)..


It's like I can't believe you guys even exist. Seriously, we see Bush and we know what he does. But it's AMAZING to interact with people who see the world the same way (i.e. with their eyes to close together).
The ones who re-elected one of the bigest jokes ever.

And it's hard to believe that such condescending, arrogant asses exist. But apparently...cough....they do. Oh, and secondly...I never said the media decide anything. I was offering my opinion. That's all.
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post #337 of 367
4/7/07 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

And it's hard to believe that such condescending, arrogant asses exist. But apparently...cough....they do. Oh, and secondly...I never said the media decide anything. I was offering my opinion. That's all.

Hey SDW...are you thinking of answering Sammi Jo's question above?
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post #338 of 367
4/7/07 at 4:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Hey SDW...are you thinking of answering Sammi Jo's question above?

It's a loaded question. There's not much point in answering.
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post #339 of 367
4/7/07 at 5:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

It's a loaded question. There's not much point in answering.

Why not give it a go though? I'm generally interested in finding out...I'm sure many others are too....we might all learn something.

You wouldn't want to deny us that would you?
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post #340 of 367
4/7/07 at 5:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Why not give it a go though? I'm generally interested in finding out...I'm sure many others are too....we might all learn something.

You wouldn't want to deny us that would you?

Well played, but no. You (and I suspect everyone else) knows what Iran is doing. I'm not taking that bait, champ.
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post #341 of 367
4/7/07 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Well played, but no. You (and I suspect everyone else) knows what Iran is doing. I'm not taking that bait, champ.

Ok, fair enough - but will you tell us why you won't tell us then?

I mean if I said the world was flat but I had some doubt about it and you said it wasn't but refused to tell me what shape it was then you should tell us why you refuse?

Would it be enough to say 'haha, you are trying to trap me! Good try!' - that sort of response implies that you might not really have any evidence (or knowledge of any description) about the true shape.....

Otherwise why not enlighten us?

Something's not right here....are you sure you do not have an irrational phobia about the near and middle eastern regions which causes you to oppose them regardless of any other consideration?

I read about something like this in the psychological case studies I was talking about a while back.... of course it wasn't geographical locales but equivalent biological locales on the human body but I think there could be a parallel.....
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post #342 of 367
4/7/07 at 5:42am
SDW2001, more than ever you have become a waste of bandwidth tearing down each of your arguments. Get laid or something.
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post #343 of 367
4/8/07 at 8:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Ok, fair enough - but will you tell us why you won't tell us then?

I mean if I said the world was flat but I had some doubt about it and you said it wasn't but refused to tell me what shape it was then you should tell us why you refuse?

Would it be enough to say 'haha, you are trying to trap me! Good try!' - that sort of response implies that you might not really have any evidence (or knowledge of any description) about the true shape.....

Otherwise why not enlighten us?

Something's not right here....are you sure you do not have an irrational phobia about the near and middle eastern regions which causes you to oppose them regardless of any other consideration?

I read about something like this in the psychological case studies I was talking about a while back.... of course it wasn't geographical locales but equivalent biological locales on the human body but I think there could be a parallel.....

You are good. But not good enough. You cannot possibly be making the comparison you did above...wrt to the Earth being flat and what Iran is doing. Well, OK...you can..it's just hilarious.

I'll be perfectly happy to tell you "why" I won't get into it: Beacause the question is one sammi (and you) think she knows the answer to. Sammi believes, as do you once again, that Iran is the moral superior or equal to the United States. Any response I would offer would be picked apart and viewed using that filter of thought. I would present lists of Iran's actions, and you'd present lists of US actions. It's pointless. You and sammi believe what you believe. There is nothing, not even the taking of hostages by Iran, that can change your mind. I said that Iran could pre-emptively sink a US Carrier and you'd still find some way...if ever painstakingly...to take it's side. That as I said is "where you live." I've found that engaging in a pissing contest with people that have such views to be utterly pointless.
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post #344 of 367
4/8/07 at 8:22am
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Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

SDW2001, more than ever you have become a waste of bandwidth tearing down each of your arguments. Get laid or something.



That was funny.
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post #345 of 367
4/8/07 at 6:05pm
Hey gang!

How many of you remember this old chestnut from childhood?

" Well if you don't know I'm certainly not going to tell you! "
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post #346 of 367
4/9/07 at 6:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hey gang!

How many of you remember this old chestnut from childhood?

" Well if you don't know I'm certainly not going to tell you! "

OK, jimmac. Let's play. Why don't you tell us what Iran is doing? Oh, and one rule: You can't use the word "Bush" in your answer...nor refer to him in any capacity.
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post #347 of 367
4/9/07 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

OK, jimmac. Let's play. Why don't you tell us what Iran is doing? Oh, and one rule: You can't use the word "Bush" in your answer...nor refer to him in any capacity.

They're trying to assert themselves without the interference of the western powers.

Sorry I don't have to follow your rules.

Now why don't you answer the question that was put to you so long ago.

( I'm betting you don't even try )
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post #348 of 367
4/9/07 at 8:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

They're trying to assert themselves without the interference of the western powers.

Sorry I don't have to follow your rules.

Now why don't you answer the question that was put to you so long ago.

( I'm betting you don't even try )



"Assert themselves without the interference of Western powers?" ROTFLMAO!

I don't think even Seg would embrace that statement. Assert themselves. Christ.
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post #349 of 367
4/9/07 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post



"Assert themselves without the interference of Western powers?" ROTFLMAO!

I don't think even Seg would embrace that statement. Assert themselves. Christ.


Hey bucko!

Instead of coming across like a vacuous jerk why not answer the question that was put to you ( first! ).

But I'm betting you really don't have anything and are trying to cover that with bravado.

Am I right or are afraid your answer is so lame it'll be torn to shreads by everyone?
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post #350 of 367
4/9/07 at 9:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hey bucko!

Instead of coming across like a vacuous jerk why not answer the question that was put to you ( first! ).

But I'm betting you really don't have anything and are trying to cover that with bravado.

Am I right or are afraid your answer is so lame it'll be torn to shreads by everyone?

You cannot even be serious. And you're the one accusing me of "bravado?" Stop...the hypocrisy is killing me.

I am standing firm on this. I've even explained why I won't answer. It's a question put forth to bait me. Then, just as you say, my response will be ripped to shreds. But it won't be because it's not a decent response, it will be because sammi and seg already "know" the answer. You see, they're interrogating just like a counselor in a court room might. Attorneys generally don't ask questions they don't know the answers to. What they are doing is the same thing. It's a dishonest question. They know full well (and so do you) what Iran is doing. They think it's just fine because the Big, Bad and Evil US of A does things they consider to be just as bad. Therefore, Iran can do whatever it wants. That's how they think. Sammi them asked the question to setup a little slam dunk. To use your phrase, "I'm not buying today."
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post #351 of 367
4/9/07 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You cannot even be serious. And you're the one accusing me of "bravado?" Stop...the hypocrisy is killing me.

I am standing firm on this. I've even explained why I won't answer. It's a question put forth to bait me. Then, just as you say, my response will be ripped to shreds. But it won't be because it's not a decent response, it will be because sammi and seg already "know" the answer. You see, they're interrogating just like a counselor in a court room might. Attorneys generally don't ask questions they don't know the answers to. What they are doing is the same thing. It's a dishonest question. They know full well (and so do you) what Iran is doing. They think it's just fine because the Big, Bad and Evil US of A does things they consider to be just as bad. Therefore, Iran can do whatever it wants. That's how they think. Sammi them asked the question to setup a little slam dunk. To use your phrase, "I'm not buying today."

Fair enough - and there is some (small) element of truth in all that BUT I have to take issue with this:

They think it's just fine because the Big, Bad and Evil US of A does things they consider to be just as bad.

I can't speak for SJ but in my case this is not correct.

I really, really, really do not believe that Iran is as you (read: US Government) claims it is.

I base this on two factors:

One: my knowledge of the region and people.
Two: your - and America in general's - abysmal lack of knowledge of the region and people.

So it is not quite true to say I know 'full well' what Iran is doing and am justifying it - I flatly deny that Iran is doing what you say it is......I mean refuse to say...but you know what I mean.....

There is a big difference. And you should at least show people the respect of accepting they believe something regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

I don't see many lefties saying to you "SDW knows Bush is a fascist but he thinks that the left are just as bad so it's ok", You clearly DON'T believe Bush is a fascist And there is a small chance you may even be right.

But the point is you are entitled to that opinion. Not everyone recognizes 'the truth' as you see it. Hopefully I won't have to reach for any fundie metaphors here.....
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post #352 of 367
4/9/07 at 10:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Fair enough - and there is some (small) element of truth in all that BUT I have to take issue with this:

They think it's just fine because the Big, Bad and Evil US of A does things they consider to be just as bad.

I can't speak for SJ but in my case this is not correct.

I really, really, really do not believe that Iran is as you (read: US Government) claims it is.

I base this on two factors:

One: my knowledge of the region and people.
Two: your - and America in general's - abysmal lack of knowledge of the region and people.

So it is not quite true to say I know 'full well' what Iran is doing and am justifying it - I flatly deny that Iran is doing what you say it is......I mean refuse to say...but you know what I mean.....

There is a big difference. And you should at least show people the respect of accepting they believe something regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

I don't see many lefties saying to you "SDW knows Bush is a fascist but he thinks that the left are just as bad so it's ok", You clearly DON'T believe Bush is a fascist And there is a small chance you may even be right.

But the point is you are entitled to that opinion. Not everyone recognizes 'the truth' as you see it. Hopefully I won't have to reach for any fundie metaphors here.....

OK, fair enough...you may not actually know what Iran is doing. Or, you may feel that Iran's actions are completely justifiable.
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post #353 of 367
4/9/07 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You cannot even be serious. And you're the one accusing me of "bravado?" Stop...the hypocrisy is killing me.

I am standing firm on this. I've even explained why I won't answer. It's a question put forth to bait me. Then, just as you say, my response will be ripped to shreds. But it won't be because it's not a decent response, it will be because sammi and seg already "know" the answer. You see, they're interrogating just like a counselor in a court room might. Attorneys generally don't ask questions they don't know the answers to. What they are doing is the same thing. It's a dishonest question. They know full well (and so do you) what Iran is doing. They think it's just fine because the Big, Bad and Evil US of A does things they consider to be just as bad. Therefore, Iran can do whatever it wants. That's how they think. Sammi them asked the question to setup a little slam dunk. To use your phrase, "I'm not buying today."

" Sammi them asked the question to setup a little slam dunk. "

And in essence by you not answering he's already got it.
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post #354 of 367
4/9/07 at 10:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

" Sammi them asked the question to setup a little slam dunk. "

And in essence by you not answering he's already got it.


Tell you what...I'm going to hold you to that warped logic in all your posts from now on. Anyone who refuses to answer anything is automatically "guilty" as it were. Oh, except for terror suspects. They deserve better.
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post #355 of 367
4/9/07 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Tell you what...I'm going to hold you to that warped logic in all your posts from now on. Anyone who refuses to answer anything is automatically "guilty" as it were. Oh, except for terror suspects. They deserve better.

Ah! But it's the context that matters here SDW.

As any good attorney would tell you.
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post #356 of 367
4/9/07 at 11:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Ah! But it's the context that matters here SDW.

As any good attorney would tell you.

Why the LOL? Sometimes I wonder if you don't just click random smilies after you post.
"It's the context" is a convenient..oh I don't know...DODGE. You're essentially condemning me for not answering--and explaning why not---pronouncing me guilty and stupid for doing so. Oh, but for people accused of plotting destructive acts of terrorism? They get the benfit of the doubt. That's the planet you live on right now.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #357 of 367
4/9/07 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Why the LOL? Sometimes I wonder if you don't just click random smilies after you post.
"It's the context" is a convenient..oh I don't know...DODGE. You're essentially condemning me for not answering--and explaning why not---pronouncing me guilty and stupid for doing so. Oh, but for people accused of plotting destructive acts of terrorism? They get the benfit of the doubt. That's the planet you live on right now.


Huh? What?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #358 of 367
4/10/07 at 9:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Huh? What?

Let me clarify. You're "it's the context" excuse is laughable. I am refusing to answer a question for clearly stated reasons. I am then pronoucned guilty as sin for doing so. Yet, in the same breath, terrorists should have the right to refuse to answer questions is accordance with the 5th Amendment. It's amazingly incosistent on your part. On one hand, I must have something to hide or not have a real answer if I refuse to answer the loaded question that was asked. On another, this standard only applies to whom you wish it to.

Clear enough?
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #359 of 367
4/10/07 at 8:17pm
While you guys continue slapping each other around (which is sadly beginning to be a standard operating procedure on PO), CNN cel news (on my cel phone) reported this morning the Iran wants to publish a book about the issue. Wonder if they are trying to make money form the UK press!

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #360 of 367
4/10/07 at 9:08pm
Just so long as Iran doesn't go on Oprah.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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