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Apple's Leopard reported to be nearing final candidate stage

post #1 of 88
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Concerns that Apple Inc.'s next-generation Leopard operating has fallen behind schedule are overblown, according to one Wall Street analyst, who says checks indicated the software is rapidly approaching completion.

In a report distributed to clients on Monday, American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu downplayed a recent report from Taiwanese-based DigiTimes, which speculated that Apple may push the release out to October in order to increase support for dual-booting Microsoft Corp.'s Windows Vista.

"From our analysis, we believe these concerns are overdone and believe that Mac OS X Leopard will ship on time in the 'Spring' timeframe, or Apple's June quarter," he wrote. "Our sources indicate that Apple's latest beta build has made noticeable improvements in stability and functionality from previous builds and that Apple is likely one or two upcoming builds away from reaching 'final candidate' stage to be released for manufacturing."

Wu noted that Spring technically runs from around March 20 to June 20 every year, which would give Apple nearly three more months to meet its self-imposed ship deadline. However, he acknowledged that a concerns amongst developers is that they are still in the dark on the software's "top secret" feature set.

"At some point, we believe Apple needs to 'publish' or enable these so-far undocumented features for wider beta testing," Wu wrote. "Many are hoping, including us, that it is virtual machine technology similar to that offered by Parallels, Inc. that allows seamless operation of Mac OS and Windows simultaneously. If so, we believe this would serve as a major catalyst for Mac sales."

For its part, Apple has publicly maintained that it will not introduce its own embedded virtualization technology with Leopard, indicating instead that it is very pleased with Parallels' solution and doesn't feel the need to compete. The company, however, has been known to intentionally mislead with some of its forward looking statements, as was the case in the lead up to the launch of the Mac mini.

In October of 2004, Apple chief financial officer told a teleconference of analysts and members of the media that Apple had decided not to compete in the sub-$800 PC market and instead would focus its efforts on its then booming music business and related products.

"We don't think we can make a lot of money there," the exec said. He must have missed the memo, because less than three months later Apple gave birth to the sub-$600 and sub-$500 Mac minis.

In his note to clients on Monday, Wu reiterated a Buy rating on shares of the Cupertino-based Mac maker, emphasizing his belief that the company is morphing into a four-prong (Mac, iPod + iTunes, Apple TV, and iPhone) vertically integrated consumer electronics firm.

"We see several catalysts in the quarters ahead, including Mac OS X Leopard, new Macs, new iPods, new movie and carrier partners, and lower cost cell phones," the analyst wrote.
post #2 of 88
...development wrapping up faster than expected...no, wait! leopard delayed until october to be compatible with vista!! ...sorry, disregard bogus rumor! leopard actually nearing final candidate stage....leopard exposed to be vaporware, never intened to be released...and the rumor mill churns on and on and on...

--------------------
the count
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post #3 of 88
This guy is such crap. he is one of those the sky is blue - except when its rainy - then our analysis tells us that we may get wet...

If this is what it takes to have a job like his.....sign me up!
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post #4 of 88
And such is the world of Apple rumors. Why not do something better than reading the tea leaves; maybe you could take up a hobby?

Delayed until October, coming out in a few weeks... you hear both sides, and there is no reason to trust either one. After all, what does it mean to be right 50% of the time?
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #5 of 88
If Leopard is still on track to come out this spring, it's getting a little late to add those "top secret" features into the product, isn't it?
post #6 of 88
Quote:
"We don't think we can make a lot of money there," the exec said. He must have missed the memo, because less than three months later Apple gave birth to the sub-$600 and sub-$500 Mac minis.

He was right about one thing. There's no money in the Mini and last I heard it's the worst selling Mac.

Quote:
If Leopard is still on track to come out this spring, it's getting a little late to add those "top secret" features into the product, isn't it?

They either already enabled them and you missed it or Apple isn't going to enable them in the Developer Builds because Developers may not need them.

Sebastian
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post #7 of 88
I say Wu and Digitimes get in the cage for a Leopard smackdown cage match. The looser gets his head shaved.

Let's hope the top secret features get tested and aren't released on the unsuspecting public without proper development.
post #8 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

If Leopard is still on track to come out this spring, it's getting a little late to add those "top secret" features into the product, isn't it?

Depends on the feature(s) that are top secret.

They say they are pleased with what Parallels has done for virtualization. What if they are bundling that as one of their top secret features? Or for that matter, they could be bundling some other existing product(s) as their top secret feature(s).

I guess only time will tell.
post #9 of 88
ooops
post #10 of 88
I'm tired of hearing on these TV shows...
"The results.....after the commercial"!

Apple is starting to get old with me on their announcements
of new products. Yes, I was in marketing "before I retired"
and understand the value of the lead up to a new product
and how it's important to keep your competition guessing.

BUT>>>> "all the time" starts to get old.

A build up for the new iPhone... I understand.

BUT, for a launch of O7' operating system and iLife,
please....can we know the results before the commmercial?

OLD MAC GUY

P.S. reporters are just doing their jobs, it's the manufacturer
who is making them jump thru hoops to get information.
post #11 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mac Guy View Post

I'm tired of hearing on these TV shows...
"The results.....after the commercial"!

Apple is starting to get old with me on their announcements
of new products. Yes, I was in marketing "before I retired"
and understand the value of the lead up to a new product
and how it's important to keep your competition guessing.

BUT>>>> "all the time" starts to get old.

A build up for the new iPhone... I understand.

BUT, for a launch of O7' operating system and iLife,
please....can we know the results before the commmercial?

OLD MAC GUY

P.S. reporters are just doing their jobs, it's the manufacturer
who is making them jump thru hoops to get information.

I think Apple just doesn't see the value in talking about your new products all the time, or making random announcements on random products on something like a Blog. On that note I don't see it either.

Sebastian
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #12 of 88
Hello to everyone!

Is this old or am I one of the first to view this? http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

I noticed that iCal to Core Animation presentations seem not yet finished, so is this fresh?

If this is a scoop, yes!!! Hope Im one of the first to spread this good news! =)
post #13 of 88
bring it on!!!!
post #14 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by doraemon2007 View Post

Is this old or am I one of the first to view this? http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

Old....
post #15 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by doraemon2007 View Post

Hello to everyone!

Is this old or am I one of the first to view this? http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

I noticed that iCal to Core Animation presentations seem not yet finished, so is this fresh?

If this is a scoop, yes!!! Hope Im one of the first to spread this good news! =)



Thanks... I hadn't noticed this.... 7 months ago.


Don't worry, it's still good news. Anyways I'll let you in on a secret, if you go to the Mail.app Leopard page, and look at the notes section (or To Dos, I forgot which, just look at both) you'll see a note/to do talking about a new iCal Icon.

Sebastian
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post #16 of 88
Um - I don't think this is Apple's doing. They said pretty plainly that Leopard is coming out in the spring, and have been keeping the developers well fed with beta updates ever since that announcement.

Apple can't help the fact that the rumour mill goes crazy - but at the same time they aren't about to try and quiet it down because it generates TONS of free publicity. Genuine grass-roots publicity too - not the astroturfing that Microsoft has to resort to.
post #17 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mac Guy View Post

I'm tired of hearing on these TV shows...
"The results.....after the commercial"!

Apple is starting to get old with me on their announcements
of new products. Yes, I was in marketing "before I retired"
and understand the value of the lead up to a new product
and how it's important to keep your competition guessing.

BUT>>>> "all the time" starts to get old.

A build up for the new iPhone... I understand.

BUT, for a launch of O7' operating system and iLife,
please....can we know the results before the commmercial?

OLD MAC GUY

P.S. reporters are just doing their jobs, it's the manufacturer
who is making them jump thru hoops to get information.

Pray tell what commercials of the new OS have you been apprised of? Even so at this stage, what would you be concerned of?

So you as a marketer wouldn't post a line-up for the fall TV season, Monday Night Football, Movies, your daughter's impending wedding, etc., until the day of the event. I would only be concerned if it where your obituary.
post #18 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post

Um - I don't think this is Apple's doing. They said pretty plainly that Leopard is coming out in the spring, and have been keeping the developers well fed with beta updates ever since that announcement.

Apple can't help the fact that the rumour mill goes crazy - but at the same time they aren't about to try and quiet it down because it generates TONS of free publicity. Genuine grass-roots publicity too - not the astroturfing that Microsoft has to resort to.

Of course they won't. They'll make the line "We don't approve of the Rumor Community" and when no one is looking, laugh about Apple's latest Marketing Scheme, you know, the one where Apple made absolutely no investment and generated tons of publicity.

Come to think of it I'm laughing too.

Sebastian
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post #19 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by doraemon2007 View Post

Hello to everyone!

Is this old or am I one of the first to view this? http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

I noticed that iCal to Core Animation presentations seem not yet finished, so is this fresh?

If this is a scoop, yes!!! Hope Im one of the first to spread this good news! =)

Keep your job. It's old.
post #20 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by redison View Post

bring it on!!!!

It would seem that iCal is not presented because it is probably going to take on the look and feel of the new iLife appas that may also be integrated with Leopard. I think iLife is probably THE major new thing in Leopard, although it would be nice to see some UI refinement (even though Tiger is the best looking and working OS out there).

Bootcamp we have known about. The only really shocking thing that they could include would go beyond having some kind of Parallelsesque app, but instead to have a VMWareish inclusion of Windows APIs that can run on Mac OS natively (I also think that Apples legal right to use these is the primary reason why MS has broken so many things with Vista so that Apple cannot natively use the new stuff.

Anyway, these are the things I am hoping for and would cause me to upgrade my last Rev Powerbook to a shiny new Macbook Pro. I don't use windows apps at all anymore except for one program at work. It would be nice to do all from my Mac without putting money in Mocrosofts pocketbook.
post #21 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post


Bootcamp we have known about. The only really shocking thing that they could include would go beyond having some kind of Parallelsesque app, but instead to have a VMWareish inclusion of Windows APIs that can run on Mac OS natively (I also think that Apples legal right to use these is the primary reason why MS has broken so many things with Vista so that Apple cannot natively use the new stuff.

Anyway, these are the things I am hoping for and would cause me to upgrade my last Rev Powerbook to a shiny new Macbook Pro. I don't use windows apps at all anymore except for one program at work. It would be nice to do all from my Mac without putting money in Mocrosofts pocketbook.

You know, I'm having a lot of trouble stomaching the idea of having Win32/.NET 3 run on a Mac. One reason could be the reason I have a Mac is because I hate the way Windows runs, right down to and including the APIs and the .exe format which makes Windows so prone to viruses to begin with.

Sebastian
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post #22 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post

Um - I don't think this is Apple's doing. They said pretty plainly that Leopard is coming out in the spring, and have been keeping the developers well fed with beta updates ever since that announcement.

"Well fed" is up to debate. Unless all developers are so super secret that the rumor sites don't even know they've got the latest builds without all those pesky issues in them. Keep in mind that developers need to test the OS with their software. You can't just hope its going to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear View Post

They say they are pleased with what Parallels has done for virtualization. What if they are bundling that as one of their top secret features? Or for that matter, they could be bundling some other existing product(s) as their top secret feature(s).

Ooh, bundling existing third-party software! Wow, how exciting. Certainly would be something spectacular for everyone to talk about after all the hype of the 'top-secret' features. (Which would more lead people to believe Jobs just made that up last year and they've been trying to come up with something ever since).

And Parallels won't be bundled. First, not everyone needs Windows support and won't want to pay for it. And parallels wouldn't just give their software away without taking a good hunk of cash back, and they wouldn't still be selling it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Let's hope the top secret features get tested and aren't released on the unsuspecting public without proper development.

Or that the secret features are just stupid separate apps that don't affect the OS to its core.
post #23 of 88
Did anyone actually believe that Apple would delay Leopard for Vista? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

He was right about one thing. There's no money in the Mini and last I heard it's the worst selling Mac. [] They either already enabled them and you missed it or Apple isn't going to enable them in the Developer Builds because Developers may not need them.

Mini sells pretty well. And besides, it is a gateway drugI mean computer.

The secret features arent appearing in the developer previews because if they did, they wouldnt be very secret. Wed have a more thorough dissection of their capabilities in a day than Apple would ever provide in a public announcement. Developer Previews are designed specifically to aid developers in testing their software for the next-generation OS. It is not meant to be a technology preview. The final product may look different, have different features, and yes, may be more stable and have fewer bugs (but it will also have its own bugs in product elements left out of the previews weve been seeing).
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post #24 of 88
I boy, 100+ post of pontification about something most of know nothing about. Besides, I don't give a flip over when 10.5 is being released, as I'm waiting for 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 to happen before upgrading.
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post #25 of 88
I'd love to know what 'checks' these analysts do. Half the time I'm sure they're just reading digg.com.
post #26 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

It would seem that iCal is not presented because it is probably going to take on the look and feel of the new iLife appas that may also be integrated with Leopard. I think iLife is probably THE major new thing in Leopard, although it would be nice to see some UI refinement (even though Tiger is the best looking and working OS out there).

Well, that's not saying much, since the competition is what? Vista? XP? Linux? Hell, as long as it didn't look like dog poo, it would take the top spot. And I hope if they tweak it, they fix the inconsistencies and issues everyone has with it, and not just change it just for change sake (and still leave all the inconsistencies and problems people have with it).

I also don't imagine iLife is the major new thing in Leopard. Apple makes a pretty penny suckering $$$ from users to upgrade every year. Why give that up and include it in OS X? Unless they change the OS pricing and charge $200+ for it (up from the projected $150 Leopard will list for). And how many people would not upgrade because they don't want to fork over the extra money for an update to iLife (Leopard at the moment is an iffy upgrade anyway, adding even more to the cost for upgrades to iLife would certainly sway myself and a bunch of others to the "wait and see" camps).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

Bootcamp we have known about. The only really shocking thing that they could include would go beyond having some kind of Parallelsesque app, but instead to have a VMWareish inclusion of Windows APIs that can run on Mac OS natively (I also think that Apples legal right to use these is the primary reason why MS has broken so many things with Vista so that Apple cannot natively use the new stuff.

First, I don't think VMWare mimics the Windows API. Its an emulator/virtual machine, like Parallels. I think you're thinking of WINE (which, in general, is a hit or miss proposition, as it only works with selected apps they've tested it with).

Second, Apple always had a legal right to use WINE (they have no right to use VMWare or Parallels, without an agreement that is), so I don't see how Microsoft can suddenly go "Oh crap, let's break vista so Apple's hardware won't work with it!". Keep in mind that Vista has been available for years to developers, and apple should have no problem getting their software to work. I think the main problem is that Apple is just filled with lousy Windows programmers who just hack their way into the system to force their will on the OS, and vista doesn't like that anymore (for example, there's no way to disable the iPod service on windows, regardless of whether you have an ipod or not, unless, perhaps, you only use the computer in limited mode). And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).

Third, I can't imagine MS would think it would be in their best interest to break iTunes/iPod support. Most iPod users are windows users. If the ipod won't work with vista properly, then there's a huge set of their user-base whose NOT upgrading. Add that to the other groups not upgrading, and its just another bullet in the foot.

Anyway, these are the things I am hoping for and would cause me to upgrade my last Rev Powerbook to a shiny new Macbook Pro. I don't use windows apps at all anymore except for one program at work. It would be nice to do all from my Mac without putting money in Mocrosofts pocketbook.[/QUOTE]
post #27 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

(for example, there's no way to disable the iPod service on windows, regardless of whether you have an ipod or not, unless, perhaps, you only use the computer in limited mode). And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).

The iPod service appears under services in msconfig, and can be disabled.
This is standard functionality. Unless there is something strange going on?
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post #28 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Delayed until October, coming out in a few weeks... you hear both sides, and there is no reason to trust either one.

No, but there's reason to trust NEITHER one

Delaying a finished OS X for half a year for the sake of better VIsta support is utterly absurd.

And expecting just a couple more test releases before Final Candidate ignores the history of much more frequent updates preceding completion of past versions.
post #29 of 88
Hi I'm Shaw Wu

http://www.amtechresearch.com/compan...0&Sidebar=True

Nice to know all his contact information is public so people could send him inside info
post #30 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Hi I'm Shaw Wu

http://www.amtechresearch.com/compan...0&Sidebar=True

Nice to know all his contact information is public so people could send him inside info

Oooh.... a local phone number. Maybe I can pay him a visit

Sebastian
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post #31 of 88
[/I]Wu noted that Spring technically runs from around March 20 to June 20 every year, which would give Apple nearly three more months to meet its self-imposed ship deadline. [/I]

I am not sure if 'self-imposed' was the proper term. All Steve said in his keynote at the 2006 WWDC was, "“Now we plan to get done with Leopard, and ship it this coming spring. So we working very hard on this, and we think we are going to get it out next spring.” Nothing has been said to change it.

"[/I]However, he (Wu) acknowledged that a concerns amongst developers is that they are still in the dark on the software's "top secret" feature set."[/I]

First of all, I would be very surprised if there is much of a concern amongst many developers. I for one am not. When he gave out the Leopard Developer Preview, most would feel quite comfortable that they had all they need for now. And if more were required it would come.

Remember all Steve said was, “There’s some top features to Leopard that we are going to keep close to the vest and not going to show you today. I just want you to know that they are there. We don’t want our friends to start their photocopiers any sooner than they have to, and so we are going to keep a few things secret…” Nothing else.

As for Appleinsider's statement that, "Apple had decided not to compete in the sub-$800 PC market," I am not sure that is reference is quite accurate. I do recall that it was said that, "…we don't think we can make a lot of money there." There is a difference was not actually stated.

As an analyst, I find Wu quite knowledgeable and his stock recommendations well worth considering. However, for Apple product announcements, there is nothing more accurate than that that comes from the horse's mouth and/or the Apple officialdome. From anywhere else is basically hearsay and/or conjecture…perhaps enough to perk my interests, but insufficient to hang my life on.
post #32 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Pray tell what commercials of the new OS have you been apprised of? Even so at this stage, what would you be concerned of?

So you as a marketer wouldn't post a line-up for the fall TV season, Monday Night Football, Movies, your daughter's impending wedding, etc., until the day of the event. I would only be concerned if it where your obituary.

Come on, you know what I am talking about... the constant tease for every Apple product is getting old !

Old Mac Guy
post #33 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).

Well, given the way the Windows interface works, I can't think of any better place to put the iTunes for Windows menus... Short of forcing iTunes to run in maximized mode all the time. Let's give Apple's Windows developers the benefit of understanding that they have to work within the limits of the OS they're coding for.
post #34 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Oooh.... a local phone number. Maybe I can pay him a visit

Sebastian

I was thinking the same! How bout all us locals go down and pay him a visit?
post #35 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

As for Wu's comment that, "Apple had decided not to compete in the sub-$800 PC market,"

That wasn't Wu saying that. It was AI pointing out that Apple have in the past said one thing, and then done the opposite not very much later.
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post #36 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

Well, that's not saying much, since the competition is what? Vista? XP? Linux? Hell, as long as it didn't look like dog poo, it would take the top spot.

dog poo!!!11!!!! it's brown, like a Zune!!!!11!!!!1!
post #37 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

That wasn't Wu saying that. It was AI pointing out that Apple have in the past said one thing, and then done the opposite not very much later.

Thank you for pointing it out. I made the correction to my original post.
post #38 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

The iPod service appears under services in msconfig, and can be disabled.
This is standard functionality. Unless there is something strange going on?

Oh, you can TRY to disable it, but run itunes, and it re-enables (not just turn it off and watch iTunes turn it on, but literally re-enable it after disabling it). Even more heinous, if you delete it (to maybe go "Hey, let me just remove this crap from my computer, then they can't start it!"), itunes just reinstalls it, and then turns it on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

Well, given the way the Windows interface works, I can't think of any better place to put the iTunes for Windows menus... Short of forcing iTunes to run in maximized mode all the time. Let's give Apple's Windows developers the benefit of understanding that they have to work within the limits of the OS they're coding for.

It was fine in a previous version, where it wasn't in the title bar, per se, but below it. Now it just looks stupid (then again, Apple slapping the brushed theme on a windows app just doesn't work well either, but since that stop apple from applying it in OS X, so I guess it wasn't going to stop them in Windows, either).

Then again, if you've ever used Media Player and they're appearing/disappearing menu, you know MS is completely screwed up in this as well.
post #39 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

Oh, you can TRY to disable it, but run itunes, and it re-enables (not just turn it off and watch iTunes turn it on, but literally re-enable it after disabling it). Even more heinous, if you delete it (to maybe go "Hey, let me just remove this crap from my computer, then they can't start it!"), itunes just reinstalls it, and then turns it on.

Haha nice. Ill have to play around with this.
I guess it is no big deal. It isnt very resource-intensive (though iTunes is on Windows) and iPods were the entire reason why Apple ported iTunes over to Windows. The iTunes service is vital to a great deal of iTunes and the iPod Software Restores iPod-related functionality so it makes some sense to maintain it. Have you noted problems that would make the service a concern?
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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post #40 of 88
I really hope iCal and Mail are integrated into 1 application. That would be REAL upgrade!
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