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Windows Vista sales figures daunt Apple - Page 2

post #41 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil Maneker View Post

The numbers weren't appropriately framed in the Appleinsider story. The 20 million copies were sold "in" February. With that number the following is now possible.

1) 20 million in one month is double the rate of 17 million in two months.
2) 2 million in four weeks (28 days, a la February) is one tenth of 20 million
3) 20 million Vista's sold in one month > 19 million Mac users

I think you're right.

There is some casual mirth in the comments here that seem like people are looking for any reason at all to bash MSFT. I am not a fan either, but let's be fair. If they sold 20 million in the first month, that is really quite impressive (and certainly much more than anyone in many forums such as AI predicted). It is also consistent with MSFT's typical stategy of managing expectations down (Zune was an exception, but the guy in charge is gone).

Of course the right benchmark is a much smaller number for Leopard, but nonetheless, a doubling. But I am not optimistic about that since 10.5 doesn't seem that radical compared to 10.4.X.

Someone commented earlier about the stock having gone sideways. Broadly, it is up about $6 - $7 since it hit a low during the middle of last year, now trading at about $28+ (it went up by over $10, as high as $31+ pre-Vista release, perhaps because of some overoptimism). That ain't chump change: It's gain of about $60 billion (about three-quarters of the total market cap of Apple).
post #42 of 104
I was at CompUSA today and played around in Vista on one of PC's there, and it is soooo damn convoluted with stuff! The main OS window and all of its organizational functionality is just ridiculous. I can't even begin to explain it all. Its like they have directions written everywhere in the windows and drop down tabs menus etc... anyone else notice this?
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post #43 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

I was at CompUSA today and played around in Vista on one of PC's there, and it is soooo damn convoluted with stuff! The main OS window and all of its organizational functionality is just ridiculous. I can't even begin to explain it all. Its like they have directions written everywhere in the windows and drop down tabs menus etc... anyone else notice this?

Are you saying this as an OS X user or an XP user? Just asking so that I can understand what your benchmark is....... if you are an OS X user, it is a somewhat irrelevant comment, and one that will have little bearing on either Microsoft's or Apple's market share.
post #44 of 104
I've had no such problems with vista running in BootCamp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

I was at CompUSA today and played around in Vista on one of PC's there, and it is soooo damn convoluted with stuff! The main OS window and all of its organizational functionality is just ridiculous. I can't even begin to explain it all. Its like they have directions written everywhere in the windows and drop down tabs menus etc... anyone else notice this?

And for those saying that the install base is larger, which is true, 20 million in 2 monts is very good. Once big business start to get their programs working with Vista, that number will skyrocket.
post #45 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

I was at CompUSA today and played around in Vista on one of PC's there, and it is soooo damn convoluted with stuff! The main OS window and all of its organizational functionality is just ridiculous. I can't even begin to explain it all. Its like they have directions written everywhere in the windows and drop down tabs menus etc... anyone else notice this?

The organization is pretty bad. I was surprised at how many different issues I had getting Vista shares to see/access XP shares and vice versa. I've been using it for many months now--since RC2-- and I'm still amazed at how often I'm googling for a solution to some Vista issue.
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post #46 of 104
If apple and a min-range tower then they should sell more macs.
post #47 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Huh? What does this have to do with my reply? If your company is purchasing these computers with Vista licenses, whoever is making that financial decision should be fired. Period. The only possible exception would be if your company is actually using Vista, which would absolutely astonish me. And this has nothing to do with Apple.

You said "Any hospital big enough to require 2000 PCs, these days, would have a contract with a company such as IBM for their hardware. This hardware would be installed by the providing company (e.g. IBM) and would be pre-configured to meet the customers needs."

To this I call BS. Most companies do not allow whoever they buy hardware from to come in and install the hardware nor do they prefer to have a base image installed for them before the desktops arrive at the dock. Its just not how its done in large companies. Some do, but most don't. End of story.

Then you said "nor would most of the computers meet Vista system requirements". For the last year, every desktop we have been ordering either meets or exceeds the Vista requirements. Every facility Admin I meet at various conferences have been following this same ordering path.

Our entire IT staff is using Vista and we have started deploying to key areas where our Managers of various departments are key "beta" testers for new hardware and OS versions.
post #48 of 104
As a long time Windows user(recently switched to OS X about 2 years ago) I can say Vista is definitely a step forward. I'm not going to be blind and just say "oh Leopard will win, microsoft sucks!". Most people won't be switching from a mac to a pc, it will be a pc user either upgrading to Vista or OS X...and in that case, Vista looks mighty tasty. Confusing/complicated/ugly for us Mac users? Yes...but not for most XP users. There's a lot of pressure on Leopard now which is a good thing, we want competition.

For me, personally, if Leopard just increased the overall speed of my computers and upgraded spotlight that would be enough for me to stay. Why? I can put it into one easy phrase I tell all my pc friends...

To find the preferences in a windows program, you must look around for it. To find the preferences in a mac app, press apple + ,
post #49 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A reported swelling of the former's ranks to 22 million this month, according to analysts' estimates, would still be overshadowed by Windows.

So basically you´re saying that Apple won´t overtake Windows this month or the next. I think that is a conservative estimate, at best.
post #50 of 104
I bought a copy of Vista.

In China.

For 3 bucks.

Was it worth it?

Nope. (Seriously)

I am sure people will brand me a apple-fan-boy, but had I paid real money for Vista, I would have been furious. It's actually very sad to see Microsoft in this state. And it's not good for Apple either since competition is a good thing--just look at what the lack of competition did to Microsoft.
post #51 of 104
I would bet that the number of people who are saying "Where's Windows XP? What is this Vista junk? Everything's in a different place. Can I get XP back?" far outnumbers the people who are thrilled with Vista.
post #52 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

Vista is fine.

All I care about is that Leopard sells enough copies to stick around and is useful enough for Apple to continue development. 2mil copies? bueno.

I don't think that's a problem. If Apple sells a copy of Leopard for half of the existing Macs currently in use, that would be 10M. That's a bit optimistic, but it's not outlandish. There is a chance that Apple could sell 4M+ new Macs with Leopard pre-installed, this year. As such, by the end of this year, there may be 8M+ Macs running Leopard.
post #53 of 104
.....
post #54 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

Once big business start to get their programs working with Vista, that number will skyrocket.

Not so fast on that big business prediction re Vista. There is a raging controversy going on right now in Vista-land which is not going to go away anytime soon. Well known and respected Computer systems Security expert Peter Gutmann published an article entitled "A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection" . Here's the link"

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html

Heres the Executive Summary from that article.

Executive Summary

Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called premium content, typically HD data from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This document analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry.


For those interested, this article is well worth reading (especially the developers in the audience). Gutmann's claims regarding the DRM "Trojan Horse" bomshell contained within Vista are being taken very seriously by the Wintel Business community. According to Steve Gibson,

http://twit.podzinger.com/viewMedia....h_form&index=2

another respected Wintel security expert, the business world will be very slow to implement Vista, if at all, because of the inherent disastrous consequences described in detail in the Gutmann article.

MS of course has tried to downplay the Gutmann claims in its public responses.
post #55 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailmaster308 View Post

You said "Any hospital big enough to require 2000 PCs, these days, would have a contract with a company such as IBM for their hardware. This hardware would be installed by the providing company (e.g. IBM) and would be pre-configured to meet the customers needs."

To this I call BS. Most companies do not allow whoever they buy hardware from to come in and install the hardware nor do they prefer to have a base image installed for them before the desktops arrive at the dock. Its just not how its done in large companies. Some do, but most don't. End of story.

I guess it depends on the type of company. If the company has a trained and specialized IT department that deploys its hardware, that may very well not be the case. But offices, retail stores, and many similar companies have contracts with IT departments to populate their drone-level PCs. These computers may or may not be supported by said company, and they may or may not be under further contract restricting use and disassembly (it depends on the business). I can agree with you in cases, but not to the full extent you seem to present. Maybe were thinking of two different things, here?

Specialized computers are never managed in such a way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trailmaster308 View Post

Then you said "nor would most of the computers meet Vista system requirements". For the last year, every desktop we have been ordering either meets or exceeds the Vista requirements. Every facility Admin I meet at various conferences have been following this same ordering path.

Our entire IT staff is using Vista and we have started deploying to key areas where our Managers of various departments are key "beta" testers for new hardware and OS versions.

Who is using Vista? Managers and the like at their desks? I can see that in some environments, and it would come down to the IT staff. But for general deployment to secretaries and similar staff that isnt cost effective, nor does it present the groundwork one might expect of a secure and stable network (I know at least that IHC and Kaiser do not deploy networks of this kind). As for medical computersthe computers on which lives might depend, it would be absolutely insane to rely on unproven technology like Vista. Every IT guy Ive worked with would prefer to give Microsoft time to work out their bugs before considering such a move (which would have to be cost effective to be considered).

Many of these networks rely largely on Windows 2000 right up to this day.

Again bear in mind Im talking about the rank-in-file computers in these environments. Not the computers used for special staff, management, or other specialized tasks.
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post #56 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

I've had no such problems with vista running in BootCamp.

And for those saying that the install base is larger, which is true, 20 million in 2 monts is very good. Once big business start to get their programs working with Vista, that number will skyrocket.

Or MAYBE NOT... http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/03/...switch.to.mac/
post #57 of 104
I think almost all of the above comments on the various ways these "sales" were made are valid. Manufacturers of all types do this all the time. When I was younger I was a record store manager. Often you'd see ads in Billboard about how so & so's album sold several hundred thousand the first week. But that's just sales to the retailers not the consumer. Later in life I was an analyst for a furniture manufacturer. A part of thier "sales" were based on orders written by retailers, not furniture sold to consumers. don't know that M$ is doing that, my point is just that it is SOP for manufacturers to inflate such claims using little technicalities.

But why is all this "daunting" to Apple per the headline? My own personal belief is that this could be hugely beneficial to Apple. I have yet to hear or read or view a Vista commentary/review without some kind of significant objection to it. These objections are usually price and compatibility issues (I just saw a CNET video that claims you can buy the premium edition but you probably won't be able to use all the features you paid for). I heard a national radio host who is by all means a typical PC consumer go on a rant about what a horrible time they had trying to install Vista and that they were returning it the next day. His co-host said, "I'm so fed up with Windows I really think I'm ready to move to an Apple." I know someone who got a new Windows laptop for Xmas marked "Vista Ready" but after upgrading many of the advanced features do not work on it. I know a Major University IT guy who complained about the headaches just getting their network ready for students using Vista.

Ok, so this is a very small sample and I'm risking a huge generalization here... but I think it's safe to say that many of these people M$ brags about selling Vista to have a very bad taste in their mouths because of it. All the more reason consumers will want a computer that "just works."
post #58 of 104
Doesnt matter how many copies of vista Microsoft said it "sold"
Apple earns way more cash from each box than Microsoft does. Apple OS X users has almost no hardware limitation when they have to upgrade. This hasnt changed a bit with Leopard. So that 19 million user base could migrate in a small percentage to Leopard and still make more than good profit to Apple.
Vista still falls short compared to Tiger, and dare to compared it to Leopard it is just fool and not keen at all. Apple is selling more computers each quarter, half of those buyers are new to Mac. Education market its growing a lot, that no only means that schools prefer Apple, it also expose a whole new generation of future buyers that will buy with close eyes Apple products for life cuase they just like they work. They already have iPods, they get used with iLive and its ease of use. The perfect platform to develop their future.

So, nice joke dude.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FineWine View Post

This is silly. There's no way Apple can compete with Microsoft numbers. This is not exactly news.

What's far more interesting, is to see what Leopard brings to the table. Apple needs a big, big leap right now over Tiger - since the distance between Tiger and XP was pretty big, yet Vista has partially closed the gap with Tiger. Now, if Apple is to get any traction against Vista, they need to make the gap between Leopard and Vista at least as big as the gap between Tiger and XP. Why?

Remember when Win 95 came out? Right. Even though it was barely catching up to Apple's OS at the time, it was "close enough" - and it removed folks motivation for going to Apple "Win95 is almost as good as Apple's OS, so I'm staying with Microsoft". It pretty much gutted Apple. Before that, Apple had a fighting chance because Windows 3.1 etc. was just such a vastly inferior system.

And here we are again. Switching from XP to Tiger makes some sense, cause the differences are pretty big. If Vista is too close to what Leopard can do, Apple will get gutted again. Remeber, Apple cannot sustain their business based on their installed base. They MUST get people to switch to really get the numbers to grow (there are not enough people who have never had a computer before, so the only way to get a bigger market share is to take it away from Microsoft).

I don't know what "secret features" Leopard has, but so far I'm not overly impressed with Leopard (I do like Spaces, though).

It is in this context only that Vista matters - if it is "good enough" compared to Leopard, folks may not want to switch. If you already own a Nissan, you may not go for a Toyota (even if the Toyo is slightly better), but you may go for a BMW. This is why Leopard must blow Vista out of the water. And I fear, it may not. I guess all hope is now in those "secret features". We'll see if that's enough to get folks to switch in big numbers.
post #59 of 104
I am sorry guys - AppleInsider really does a good job, but this was truly a dreadfully written article, which beggars belief in its spin on the Vista sales figures and how they should be directly compared to Apple's for its OS X. Dreadful truly dreadful.
post #60 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by intlplby View Post

also a 3 million increase from 17m to 20m isn't all that great when you think about how many more PCs there are now from when there were when XP was released


17 mil was for 2 months (XP)
20 mil was for 1 month (Vista)

Read twice before posting. Double is accurate.
post #61 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike12309 View Post

17 mil was for 2 months (XP)
20 mil was for 1 month (Vista)

Read twice before posting. Double is accurate.


as mentioned above it was 60 days Vs 56 days
post #62 of 104
Apple won't begin to catch up to Microsoft's market share UNLESS they....

#1) Support Mac OS X to run on all PC hardware - the growth in sales of Mac OS X should totally out-weigh any loss in Apple's hardware sales.

#2) Seriously tackle the Enterprise market and compete with MS technologies such as Active Directory, Exchange, SharePoint, Terminal Services, Outlook, etc.
post #63 of 104
The problem is Apple is losing a great opportunity to make greater inroads into new desktop purchases by not offering a minitower system in the 900-1500 dollar range.
post #64 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugodrax View Post

The problem is Apple is losing a great opportunity to make greater inroads into new desktop purchases by not offering a minitower system in the 900-1500 dollar range.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT ABOUT THAT! I dream every night of such a machine. The current MacPro is too expensive. The iMac is an all-in-one. The MacMini is too little and underpowered. Etc. This is one of Mac OS X's biggest problems - it is supported only on hardware that seems to fit the business model of it's creator, Apple Inc.

Dear Apple, Please release a Bring-Your-Own-Display-Keyboard-Mouse tower Mac in the $800 - $1200 range! It's WAY OVERDUE! This hardware-lock-in crap is enought to make me SWITCH to XP/Vista!

post #65 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailmaster308 View Post

ROFLMAO....I "AM" the Desktop Administrator for two hosptials well into the 3500 node range according to my last AD scan.

We do have a contract w/ Dell but no way in hell would I allow them to pre-install any image to put on our network. Thats what M$ made RIS server for. Rapid deployment with easily configured images and software packages via group policy. O wait thats right, Apple doesn't do that...huh?

You need to do a little more reading on Apple products.
post #66 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchy View Post

I am sorry guys - AppleInsider really does a good job, but this was truly a dreadfully written article, which beggars belief in its spin on the Vista sales figures and how they should be directly compared to Apple's for its OS X. Dreadful truly dreadful.

Agree 100%. And, to add insult to injury, AI articles are frequently cited on major financial sites like Google, Yahoo, Bloomberg, WSJ, etc. Readers there often just look at headlines when searching for the latest news on a stock or sector. Poorly researched and written articles like this one have the potential to do a lot of damage among investors who don't know about many of the points mentioned here e,g. the need to breakout "sales" by category, free upgrade coupons from XP, etc. Some investors only see that one of Apple's top evangelist sites is in a panic about great Vista sales or that the pressure is really on Apple's Leopard sales. Bottom line: AI has to realize that every single word reported by them has to be carefully vetted. Ai articles are not just for this small forum audience of Apple devotees. This is not the first time that an AI article has been this "dreadful". Come on guys, get your act together.
post #67 of 104
I'm purchasing a *shudder* non apple laptop to host a linux distro. Unfortunately you cannot buy a laptop without getting a copy of Vista (wanted or not). The OEM cost of Vista has already been factored into the price of the laptop thus Mscrew gets paid for something that I DON'T want nor am I going to use.

Basically M$ 'sales' figures do not represent Vista's acceptance figures. There are a lot of people out there who are either upgrading computer systems (and are happy with XP) or purchasing systems intended for non-Vista use (like me), these people have not voluntarily bought Vista.....they've had shoved down their throats.

And as has been pointed out by other posters on this thread, how does the fact that Vista sells more in one month than the entire install base of OSX affect Apples sales?? (Answer; it doesn't).

Sopranino
post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post



.......

I can agree with some of what you said. Some companies do have preinstalled images. I would venture to say, in my field, they do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Specialized computers are never managed in such a way.

100% Disagree. Saying specialized computers are not managed in such a way is not true. Take our Radiologist RDT's/PDT's and Cedera Iview stations. These are used to pull read diagnostic images on patients (large greyscale monitors taking place of xray film).They arrive barebones and we install a custom image on each machine. Test. Burn. Test. Burn. Deploy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


Many of these networks rely largely on Windows 2000 right up to this day.

If I were to ever use this phrase around our network engineers I would be sacked and strung up outside at lunch time. They would then pull whatever sharp objects out of their pocket protectors and poke me with them.

Networks do not rely on windows, escpecially enterprise level networks. They rely on core routers and switches; in our case layer-3 networks where the all switches and routers are Cisco. If every Windows server and desktop were to crash, the network would work just fine.

Network guys and Server guys are completely two different teams. And they hate to be compared to each other.
post #69 of 104
vista was the most lukewarm OS release that microsoft has ever had, since windows 1.0.

most reviewers don't hate it, but at the same time, they don't see what the value of it is, especially given the heafty price tag. matter of fact, it's a lot like the zune, in that respect, but where is the zune? i have vista on one of the PCs in my house, mainly for reviewing purposes, and it really just doesn't seem that much different from XP. it's just same ol' windows. slow, buggy, no better or worse than XP.

vista will be a successful product, because microsoft will force it on the community. however, i think this tactic will come back to bite them in the ass next time around, because most enterprises will be ready to resist the gouging.
post #70 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailmaster308 View Post

100% Disagree. Saying specialized computers are not managed in such a way is not true. Take our Radiologist RDT's/PDT's and Cedera Iview stations. These are used to pull read diagnostic images on patients (large greyscale monitors taking place of xray film).They arrive barebones and we install a custom image on each machine. Test. Burn. Test. Burn. Deploy.

You misread, or I worded my reply poorly. I meant to say specialized computers tend not to be deployed or managed by the likes of IBM and Dell. They are rather prepared, deployed, and managed by specialized staff. We do not disagree on this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trailmaster308 View Post

If I were to ever use this phrase around our network engineers I would be sacked and strung up outside at lunch time. They would then pull whatever sharp objects out of their pocket protectors and poke me with them.

Networks do not rely on windows, escpecially enterprise level networks. They rely on core routers and switches; in our case layer-3 networks where the all switches and routers are Cisco. If every Windows server and desktop were to crash, the network would work just fine.

Again, I am talking about the computers deployed to various employees of the company. The computers which make up the bulk of a company’s machines. None of what I have said applies to the server room, or other specialized equipment, where drone machines are (hopefully) never deployed and are (hopefully) maintained exclusively by a competent IT staff in appropriately sized companies. My discussion, to which you replied, was focused on the Microsoft sales numbers, and as such was concerned about the majority of sales going into a company. My point was that companies do not pay for thousands or tens of thousands of Vista licenses when buying machines which will be used as terminals, secretary computers, or many clone-type special purposes. Businesses make arrangements that come with what they need, stripping out costs such as this—something the consumer cannot do.
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post #71 of 104
i don't understand why people compare the release of tiger to the release of XP :dizzy:

apple is selling tiger to the very limited apple hardware customers. microsoft is selling XP to people who buy Dells, HP, Sony, etc...
post #72 of 104
MS has roughly 300M windows users. 20M copies of Vista represents around 6.5% adoption... that's before you consider that a good proportion of those were not sought-after, but rather forced due to MS's fierce pullout of XP in all retail outlets. You will have a hard time purchasing XP or an XP-preinstalled PC anywhere, even if that's what you wanted. MS is literally FORCING Vista upon users. I would hardly call that "adoption."

Another statistic to look at, then, is average PC sales over the course of two months, and see exactly how much Vista's sales exceed this. I don't think it's by much but I don't have any hard numbers.

Yet another factor to consider is whether or not MS considers copies sold to retailers which are still sitting on store shelves as "sales."

I think 6.5% would be a generous figure. Plus, we aren't experiencing blockbuster PC sales. I would interpret that as slow sales for Vista.

-Clive
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post #73 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by iJay View Post

i don't understand why people compare the release of tiger to the release of XP :dizzy:

apple is selling tiger to the very limited apple hardware customers. microsoft is selling XP to people who buy Dells, HP, Sony, etc...

people are excited by the idea of apple succeeding over microsoft. apple is still the underdog, but people forget that. it's not such a bad thing, though. microsoft is clearly losing popularity. in a lot of ways, they've made themselves look like the evil, yet incompetent empire. in time, they will lose their stronghold in the IT industry, but whether or not apple will be the catalyst remains to be seen.

it's just nice to see that for once, there's a viable alternative.
post #74 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by alansky View Post

Daunt? DAUNT??? Surely you jest!

It doesn't seem like the right word, does it?
post #75 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

.... MS's fierce pullout of XP in all retail outlets. You will have a hard time purchasing XP or an XP-preinstalled PC anywhere, even if that's what you wanted. MS is literally FORCING Vista upon users. I would hardly call that "adoption."
-Clive

Windows XP Pro with SP2 is currently a very hot item on eBay. At a recent trip to CompUSA, after I asked if I could get a Wintel without Vista, the sales guy whispered he would give me a good deal on a licensed copy of XP SP2 from "his own" personal store. Just think about it, a black market next year in XP SP2!
post #76 of 104
I agree with those that state:

There should have been even more sales than the 20 mill as the demand should have been peaking for what, two years now with all of the release delays??

There were a lot of free upgrades to Vista included with computer sales of the last holiday season.\

My employer states that it will not move to Vista immediately as there is not any business reason to do so. They do not wish to experience the hardware upgrade issue. In the future it will be rolled out with the normal hardware refresh program unless there is a specific business reason to do so sooner.

So the release of Vista was large but no tidal surge indicating that everyone was on board the microsoft express.
post #77 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Oh, for heaven sakes. I was expecting to see this garbage article, but not regurgitated without challenge by a site like AppleInsider. What is with these crumby articles lately? A Sprint Phone that cannot even compete with the iPod in terms of music playback, while completely missing out on the key innovations of the iPhone, presented as a threat of some sort to the product. Paying homage to DigiTimes ridiculous suggestion that OS X would be delayed for Vista of all things? This is just bad reporting. An Apple website should research these matters so they are comfortable with the sources, then present the story along with the truth behind it.

As for this article, it represents three key considerations:
1) Copies of Microsoft Vista pre-installed on over-the-counter units.
2) Copies of Microsoft Vista theoretically pre-sold in that upgrade program.
3) Copies of Microsoft Vista shippedstuffed into retail channelsawaiting sale.

#1 in particular has been generous to them this time around. Why? Because they have gone to great lengths to strip XP from the retail channel. If you are shopping at big-box stores you are going to have a tough time finding new PCs with Windows XP pre-installed. You are also going to have a tough time buying Windows XP over the shelf. Microsoft is forcing Vista upon its customers, many of whom are not happy about itparticularly elderly who arent ready for more change, and old computer users who are faced with a new system that will not be backward compatible with their peripherals. It is no wonder so many have sold?

How about the actual over-the-counter Vista upgrades? You wont be seeing those numbersthey are selling horribly. Most of the people who are excited enough to run Vista on a pre-Vista system are actually pirating itor cant afford it, and businesses want nothing to do with it.

None of this should come as a surprise though. Microsoft has been doing this for some time now.

Edit: Hell, this probably also includes all the OEM licenses HP, Gateway, Sony, Toshiba, and others have purchased in bulk but havent even shipped yet. All the computers waiting to be shipped, that have been shipped, that are sitting around in warehouses across the world.


Do you really think that Apple states sales figures for new operating systems based only on over the counter purchases? Everybody's doing the same thing to make their system seem like it's selling better, which makes it a control, and useful for comparisons. When Leopard arrives, Apple will also include copies on new systems sold, as well as the free upgrades (if it offers them) to people that bought Macs within a month of the release or something... You seem really upset at Microsoft for using a sales reporting technique which apple will undoubtably also use in a few months' time...
post #78 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post

Windows XP Pro with SP2 is currently a very hot item on eBay. At a recent trip to CompUSA, after I asked if I could get a Wintel without Vista, the sales guy whispered he would give me a good deal on a licensed copy of XP SP2 from "his own" personal store. Just think about it, a black market next year in XP SP2!

More than half of the systems at Dell still ship with XP, and they're one of the big tie-in companies with Vista compatability. The fact is that Vista is great on the top half of currently availiable computers, but XP will stick around on the lower-end models for at least a few more months, I think. Windows 95 was readily available for months after XP.

There's no sense in stores carrying XP, because the next wave of processors and RAM numbers and graphics cards and professional programs and games will all require Vista. Everyone who needs XP already has it. Who the hell would want to buy a new copy of XP in 2 months? Maybe somebody who's trying to build himself a Celeron desktop to save $50 over the bottom end Dell? Why would Microsoft pay to keep stores stocked with XP for those people?
post #79 of 104
What I'm wondering is, how do the 20M 'sales' of Vista compare in proportion to the installed Windows user base, opposed to 2M in sales of Tiger vs. the OSX user base?
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
Reply
post #80 of 104
I have been in offices that did not even buy Tiger and have it on many machines.22 in one office and they bought one copy. I wonder what Apples actual installed base is? Windows is hard to load a single copy to more then one machine but OSX is not. Not saying it is a good thing but just a fact....
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