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OMFG ! Battlestar Galactica Ep 20!!!! WTF! [Spoiler Warning]

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Major spoiler warning. DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED EPISODE 20.


........


So, after the mucking around of the past 6 or so episodes, the totally bizarre Starbuck suicide, then.


THIS

OMFG.


And that's it for BSG until 2008, so is the rumour. Someone tell me it ain't true...
But in my heart, Ep 20 is the classic no-holds-barred http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_de_gr%C3%A2ce of Season 03.

Word.

Now to *get*, well *continue* my real life - I've got a job, I guess that's a start...
post #2 of 30
I'll be amused to see how they'll explain starbuck not dying.
Then again, we could've seen this coming from a mile away.
post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenWolf View Post

I'll be amused to see how they'll explain starbuck not dying.
Then again, we could've seen this coming from a mile away.

Yeah.... It was pretty obvious. Though I thought they'd bring her back in only in Season 04.
Starbuck is the 5th of the Final Five, I'm guessing....
post #4 of 30
Thread Starter 
I loved the pull out and pull in through the galaxy graphics at the end. Was pretty cool. Gave me the "ooooh" feeling I haven't felt since "Contact".
post #5 of 30
Truly one of their best episodes. It's my gut feeling that this will bring more elements from the original in like the ship of lights etc.

Only done better of course.

After all during " Maelstrom " Leobin said that he wasn't Leobin. Implying he was someone else.

My gut feeling also says they will wrap this up next year and all will be revealed.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #6 of 30
I'm still waiting for the Moore's podcast commentary. Should be good.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #7 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Yeah.... It was pretty obvious. Though I thought they'd bring her back in only in Season 04.
Starbuck is the 5th of the Final Five, I'm guessing....

Considering that in the episode where Lucy Lawless (#3) has the vision of the final five at the temple there's a pan-out of Starbuck right before the credits roll, yeah, I think so.
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post #8 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenWolf View Post

I'll be amused to see how they'll explain starbuck not dying.
Then again, we could've seen this coming from a mile away.

My vote is for Lee having a Head Starbuck!

And IMHO, the four who heard the music are a Red Herring, not the true Final Five. After all, Col. Tigh predates the Cylon revolution, much less the 'skinjobs'; and Adm. Adama has known Tigh for over 40 years, and gotten older together, etc. As far as we know, skinjob cylons don't age...
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #9 of 30
Somebody want to explain what the heck the "All Along the Watchtower" bit was about? I was actually pretty into the episode until I realized that it was a Dylan/Hendrix tune. It seemed so out of place that to some extent it snapped the fantasy, Where are they going with this?

WOOT!: 500th post!
post #10 of 30
I agree about the "All Along the Watchtower" bit. How did music from earth get on a ship of people looking for earth. The Cylons must have done it

Remember that episode where the Chief and Cally get blown out the airlock? The Chief faired so much better than Cally after being decompressed. Well now we know why. He also has a half toaster half human baby.
post #11 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishan View Post

Somebody want to explain what the heck the "All Along the Watchtower" bit was about? I was actually pretty into the episode until I realized that it was a Dylan/Hendrix tune. It seemed so out of place that to some extent it snapped the fantasy, Where are they going with this?

WOOT!: 500th post!

Check out this site for an interesting interpretation of the lyrics VS the show.

And congrats on 500!
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #12 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Check out this site for an interesting interpretation of the lyrics VS the show.

And congrats on 500!

Appreciate the link. Its a nice bit of science fiction that leaves so much room for profound thoughts on a song that has been around in various forms for over 3 decades. In the absence of any "official" commentary by way Ron Moore's podcast, the explanation offered in the link you provided is as good as any.

From an artistic point of view, I maintain that the use of a relatively modern song like "All Along the Watchtower" is jarring in the style that the new BSG has established. I suspect that it must have been done deliberately, but sadly we will have to wait until 2008 to figure out where this is all going.
post #13 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishan View Post

Appreciate the link. Its a nice bit of science fiction that leaves so much room for profound thoughts on a song that has been around in various forms for over 3 decades. In the absence of any "official" commentary by way Ron Moore's podcast, the explanation offered in the link you provided is as good as any.

From an artistic point of view, I maintain that the use of a relatively modern song like "All Along the Watchtower" is jarring in the style that the new BSG has established. I suspect that it must have been done deliberately, but sadly we will have to wait until 2008 to figure out where this is all going.

I'm gonna watch the last 10 minutes again. I think the build-up was quite alright, I understand the "jarring" effect some may feel.

I think though that the "song" they kept hearing had a persian/ middle eastern/ tribal/ ethnic feel to it all along, and then towards the end it evolved to a full on rock-out song, which I personally thought was cool.

Yeah, definitely ethinc/ tribal overlay tones throughout the rockin' .... so some link to the BSG style. IMHO.
post #14 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Check out this site for an interesting interpretation of the lyrics VS the show.

And congrats on 500!

Cool, for the record, Bob Dylan song apparently. Yes, something about the Joker and the Thief ... One referring to Cylons and Humans.

Also, there is a vague reference to Wolfmother's [Grammy Award Winners] "Joker and the Thief" ("....let me tell you the story about the joker and the thief....") or something like that.



...Just throwing in Wolfmother because they're an Australian band and just won a Grammy recently.........
post #15 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

...My gut feeling also says they will wrap this up next year and all will be revealed.

Yeah, a four-season arc. Reasonable, and very contemporary science fiction. I still say Babylon5 and DeepSpaceNine had more solid, longer story arcs, though in this day and age (2005 onwards), they would be considered "too cheesy".

BSG has been fun but pretty confusing, creative, but somewhat confusing and open-ended.
post #16 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

My vote is for Lee having a Head Starbuck!

And IMHO, the four who heard the music are a Red Herring, not the true Final Five. After all, Col. Tigh predates the Cylon revolution, much less the 'skinjobs'; and Adm. Adama has known Tigh for over 40 years, and gotten older together, etc. As far as we know, skinjob cylons don't age...

Heh. Lee's hallucinating Starbuck. Nice.

Red Herrings? Possibly. But given that the "final five" are progenitors of sorts, we don't know how they came about. Tigh's pretty old, so it dates back quite far. It is possible that because they are the progenitors, they could have been "created" a long while back during cylon wars where all the humans saw were toasters not skinjobs...

From how "primitive" the humans are [besides spaceflight and faster-than-light travel ] it is possible they invented and refined cylons hundreds of years ago. And the cylon revolt could have happened a hundred years ago in this scenario (BSG reimagined not BSG original).

OK. Enough nerding out for now.
post #17 of 30
Is there any rule where I Cylon can't take over someones identity? Maybe Tigh has been replaced.
post #18 of 30
We're told...

The Cylons were created by humans.
They evolved.
They have a plan.

The Temple that Chief found, and D'Anna activated was what, 3000 years old? So how did she manage to see the Final Five from it? Unless...

Who says that the chrome Cylons are the original ones? The colonies were a diaspora from somewhere else, so maybe, just maybe, the humanoid Cylons have been around much, much longer than suspected. They *were* created by humans, pre-diaspora, they *have* evolved, and they've been waiting for a very long time to engage their plan.

The chrome Cylons, a recent re-invention of lost technology, were just adopted by them as their dumb little cousins when they met somewhere 'out there' after the First Cylon War, a couple decades ago. An opportunity was seen, and voila. Plan engages.
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post #19 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

We're told...

The Cylons were created by humans.
They evolved.
They have a plan.

The Temple that Chief found, and D'Anna activated was what, 3000 years old? So how did she manage to see the Final Five from it? Unless...

Who says that the chrome Cylons are the original ones? The colonies were a diaspora from somewhere else, so maybe, just maybe, the humanoid Cylons have been around much, much longer than suspected. They *were* created by humans, pre-diaspora, they *have* evolved, and they've been waiting for a very long time to engage their plan.

The chrome Cylons, a recent re-invention of lost technology, were just adopted by them as their dumb little cousins when they met somewhere 'out there' after the First Cylon War, a couple decades ago. An opportunity was seen, and voila. Plan engages.

mua ha ha hah ha . Yay. This dovetails nicely into my "progenitor" concept above.
Thanks Kickaha

The big questions are
(A) What is earth now,
(B) if humans started from earth, then left, then why did the 13th tribe go "back" to earth?
(C) What has Kobol got to do with their "origins" -- was it the first colony after some exodus from 21st-century earth 4,000-5000 years ago?
(D) When exactly were Cylons made, what models, how they evolved, chromes, skinjobs, "final five" (first "five") first who?? How many wars with them??

Well, the producers are probably making things up along the way anyway.
post #20 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

Is there any rule where I Cylon can't take over someones identity? Maybe Tigh has been replaced.

Good idea. I think this could be an ace up the sleeve of the writers/producers ...The show has a lot to do with memory, consciousness, downloading/ uploading, "ecosystem" awareness, "activation" by a "childhood tune", some cylons aware, some not, some hallucinate, some don't.... wooo
post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

My vote is for Lee having a Head Starbuck! ...

I am no South Park fan by any stretch of the imagination, but for some reason this popped into my head [heh, pun unintended] when you said "Head Starbuck".

post #22 of 30
I watched the first 4 or 5 episodes again last night, and a few things jumped out:

1) In the Boomer/Chief arc, the furtive glances, Boomer's only trusting Chief with the explosives, the lying, and, most importantly, the idea that these two cylons found one another takes on new significance.

2) In the episode where Starbuck crashes on the moon and has to revive the Cylon ship, her dream of the crash is almost identical to her crash in the penultimate episode of this season. Additionally, the idea that she could revive the cylon raider is interesting.

***

I did have a question, though. Where does the Boomer/Sharon split happen? Presumably they're both stationed on the BSG, but how does one wind up on Caprica and the other on the ship? I don't feel like slogging through the miniseries to sort this out.
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post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

I watched the first 4 or 5 episodes again last night, and a few things jumped out:

1) In the Boomer/Chief arc, the furtive glances, Boomer's only trusting Chief with the explosives, the lying, and, most importantly, the idea that these two cylons found one another takes on new significance.

2) In the episode where Starbuck crashes on the moon and has to revive the Cylon ship, her dream of the crash is almost identical to her crash in the penultimate episode of this season. Additionally, the idea that she could revive the cylon raider is interesting.

***

I did have a question, though. Where does the Boomer/Sharon split happen? Presumably they're both stationed on the BSG, but how does one wind up on Caprica and the other on the ship? I don't feel like slogging through the miniseries to sort this out.

Sharon and Helo fall in lurv on Caprica, while she is trying to set him up in concert with the other Cylons. The Boomer character twists off and shoots Lt. Castillo, and then Callie shoots her -- so that that original Boomer downloads back to the Cylons. Helo and Sharon then make their way back to Galactica.

I think that's what you mean (?)

I read Moby Dick, Gatsby, and Winesburg, Ohio you bastard.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Sharon and Helo fall in lurv on Caprica, while she is trying to set him up in concert with the other Cylons. The Boomer character twists off and shoots Lt. Castillo, and then Callie shoots her -- so that that original Boomer downloads back to the Cylons. Helo and Sharon then make their way back to Galactica.

I think that's what you mean (?)

I read Moby Dick, Gatsby, and Winesburg, Ohio you bastard.

No. My question is which one of the boomer/sharon/agathon ones was NOT on the BSG? And how did she get where she was? If it's the one on Caprica, does she get there with the cylon invasion?

And I'm glad to hear you've read those classic American novels. I read "Tandy" from Winesburg about once a year and routinely teach "Hands," which upsets my students tremendously.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

No. My question is which one of the boomer/sharon/agathon ones was NOT on the BSG? And how did she get where she was? If it's the one on Caprica, does she get there with the cylon invasion?

And I'm glad to hear you've read those classic American novels. I read "Tandy" from Winesburg about once a year and routinely teach "Hands," which upsets my students tremendously.

Hands -- rather prescient, at least as a storyline.

I could be being very dense here.

I just assumed she -- Sharon [now Athena] came in with the invasion of Caprica, and was one of the mass-produced models (like 6 and Xena.) That they just picked one to seduce Helo. Don't forget when pre-shooting Boomer landed on the Cylon ship and was confronted with a bunch of the Sharon model.


Faulkner or Steinbeck?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Hands -- rather prescient, at least from as a storyline.

It's a nice story. I use it to teach demonstrate how narrators can manipulate you (that narrator is obviously on Wing's side).

Quote:
Faulkner or Steinbeck?

Steinbeck is the great American writer. Faulkner is better, for me, but I'm not an Americanist. I wouldn't dive right into something heavy like Absalom, Absalom! or The Sound and the Fury, though. Maybe Light in August or Sanctuary, instead.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

No. My question is which one of the boomer/sharon/agathon ones was NOT on the BSG? And how did she get where she was? If it's the one on Caprica, does she get there with the cylon invasion?...

Hey... This is a pretty good run-down: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Valerii ...Them nerds' are useful..!!

For some reason though I remember while Sharon[Boomer] was going around with Helo on Caprica in Season 1, there was another Sharon Copy talking with Six in the background, scheming..........

Anyway my memory is kinda fracked at this stage though it seems to work in a different way, I woke up this morning thinking of a Get A Mac ad and able to translate it into one of my childhood-learnt languages (other than the English I just speak all the time)...!!
post #28 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

No. My question is which one of the boomer/sharon/agathon ones was NOT on the BSG? And how did she get where she was? If it's the one on Caprica, does she get there with the cylon invasion?...

Yes, Boomer is the "long term plant" on BSG which slowly gained awarness of her Cylon-ness and became "evil"-ish.

The Sharon-Agathon one was inserted into Caprica to seduce Helo but she fell in looove instead... It looks like this non-BSG Sharon is a fresh copy that is on Caprica who arrived with the cylon invasion. Given that they massively nuked major metro areas on Caprica, all existing Cylon "covert agents" would have been killed and re-downloaded to Cylon space ships, then various skinjobs all flying down to Caprica for various purposes.
post #29 of 30
My recollection is that Helo's Sharon was made differently so that she could fall in love with him. Remember the Cylons are trying to reproduce sexually and had no luck. Plus Helo's Sharon is part of "gods plan" or something.
post #30 of 30
"Frak Party" podcast is up...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
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