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Mac Blu-Ray notebook upgrade shows Apple lagging behind - Page 2

post #41 of 109
4/7/07 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The first iMacs, the ones that dropped the floppy, only had CD-ROM drives. It wasn't until a couple years later that a CD writer was even offered with those machines, IIRC, a writer wasn't standard until the G5 iMac. They didn't have any included built-in means of recording removable media either. It was odd to have an all-in-one solution that required external, separately purchased products to do any media writing. This was well before a USB flash drive was even heard of.



Obviously, some professionals have been making that investment already, with the numerous BR and HDVD titles that are available and selling now. Those discs didn't just make themselves. I'm pretty sure that the cost of the hardware is factored into the job bid. Stuff like that depreciates quickly either way, but that should be factored into the price of doing the work, and thus not really a loss but a gain for being able to take on a lucrative project.

The problem is that Apple likes to pretend that it's professional editing suite is leading-edge but they fail to properly support either leading-edge format. Right now, Apple-using pros don't have any means to tap that growing market because their software won't do proper BR/HDVD authoring, and the hardware options are scant. Contrast this when in Jan 2005, their consumer software can capture and edit HD, but even now, their pro software and hardware doesn't offer recording or distribution capabilities for that captured and edited HD.

The Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are not recorded on computers, but instead are sent to a manufacturer that "presses" them. The authoring software is all that is needed by professionals. Only us amateurs need the burner, and I expect them as a BTO shortly.
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post #42 of 109
4/7/07 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

You're right, in fact the optical drive can easily become obsolete within 10 years if everything switches to downloads. Personally I don't see the need in one for sub notebooks if they use a dock. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm still after a Macbook Something with no moving parts built into it, which is no doubt wishful thinking on my part...

Sebastian

No moving parts is my dream too, and it may happen soon! Flash storage + external optical would do the trick.

Opticals are still needed, for installation, and file sharing and $^&%$^%& game copy protection, and sometimes for movie playback... but you don't need an optical drive ALL the time, so making it external for the sake of a smaller portable is perfect in my view.

The 12" PB is gone. What will replace it? I think something will

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post #43 of 109
4/7/07 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

No moving parts is my dream too, and it may happen soon! Flash storage + external optical would do the trick.

Opticals are still needed, for installation, and file sharing and $^&%$^%& game copy protection, and sometimes for movie playback... but you don't need an optical drive ALL the time, so making it external for the sake of a smaller portable is perfect in my view.

The 12" PB is gone. What will replace it? I think something will

Going along with you are saying about "no moving parts" and giving it a couple years to happen, wouldn't it be cheaper and more minimalist in design to offer an optical drive as an extra accessory and put the OS X boot/recovery disc on a special Apple-branded USB flash drive?

I really hope Apple doesn't do what pretty much every other PC OEM does. They put the recovery disc on the HDD; taking up 5GB of useful storage.
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post #44 of 109
4/7/07 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new drive swap offered by FastMac is giving hope to Mac owners riding the cutting edge of movie editing and playback, but is leaving many others wondering why Apple hasn't been willing to help of its own accord.

It's pretty simple, boys: there's a format war still on. Apple's decided to go with Blu-Ray because of higher data storage, but there's a poisoned apple (not Apple) attached to this, too: DRM. The MPAA Nazis have managed to make Vista nearly unusable. There is incredible copy protection all up and down the chain. If the MPAA decides they don't like your video card because it has component out -- piracy city -- they can simply revoke the key, and then you're video card plays EDTV, not 1080p. Sure, there are hacks, but the key nazis have already revoked one key, and there will be more to come.
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post #45 of 109
4/7/07 at 3:53pm
here's why apple hasn't leapt on board:

1. it's $799.
2. There is no clear winner between blu-ray and the HD-DVD formats (although Blu-ray is much, much better suited for computing applications)

it'd make more sense to add blu-ray as a mac pro or xserve option. but as far as options for consumer applications, doesn't make sense yet due to the cost.
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post #46 of 109
4/7/07 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeat View Post

who cares about Blu-Ray discs, they are EXPENSIVE

Not really. Go to Amazon, you'll find plenty of Blu-Ray movies for around $20-25, which ain't bad. And of course, as Blu-Ray becomes more popular, those prices will drop.

Quote:
Its all about HD-DVD.

Again, not really. In recent months Blu-Ray has been handily outselling HD-DVD, due in large part to Blu-Ray being included with the Playstation 3. Some anaysts expect HD-DVD to disappear all together by next year.


Quote:
And most people download movies that are ripped from warez sites and stuff anyways so it really doesn't matter.

If by 'most people' you mean teenagers and college students, ok, maybe. But most people don't have fat enough pipes to download HD content efficiently yet... choking down a 10+ GB HD movie file on DSL takes all day. And illegal downloading of standard def movies sure hasn't killed DVD, now has it?

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post #47 of 109
4/7/07 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdawso View Post

The Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are not recorded on computers, but instead are sent to a manufacturer that "presses" them. The authoring software is all that is needed by professionals. Only us amateurs need the burner, and I expect them as a BTO shortly.

I know that the final product is replicated.

How are the discs tested to make sure that they work in real players before going through the expense of making a glass master? Incidentally, I wonder if there are official emulators and official test discs to help validate discs and machines. That was one thing that would have been nice for early DVD years because I've seen several cases where the DVD authoring house blamed some popular brand DVD player for getting it wrong, and I've seen some cases where the DVD authoring was clearly wrong too. Both Bly-Ray and HD-DVD are a lot more complex than DVD. Right now, one big compatibility issue has already creeped up, Children of Men on HD-DVD doesn't work on the XBox 360.

Either way, Apple doesn't offer the authoring software, so if a Mac is used to edit or encode a video, they'll likely have to hand it off to someone else to do the authoring work.
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post #48 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

It's pretty simple, boys: there's a format war still on. Apple's decided to go with Blu-Ray because of higher data storage, but there's a poisoned apple (not Apple) attached to this, too: DRM. The MPAA Nazis have managed to make Vista nearly unusable. There is incredible copy protection all up and down the chain. If the MPAA decides they don't like your video card because it has component out -- piracy city -- they can simply revoke the key, and then you're video card plays EDTV, not 1080p. Sure, there are hacks, but the key nazis have already revoked one key, and there will be more to come.

Good points.

.
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post #49 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:04pm
there is a wide spread Mac press/blog misperception on apples commitment to Blu-Ray. Its been suggested ever since Jobs was seen on stage with Sony Japan president, and Apple becoming a member on the Blu-Ray Associations Board. Apples only commitment of public record is to
H.264 codec standard. Maybe someone can find a quote i missed somewhere. Apple is on the fence official as far as i can see...and if you read this press release they seem more slanted toward HD-DVD.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html
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post #50 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

here's why apple hasn't leapt on board:

1. it's $799.
2. There is no clear winner between blu-ray and the HD-DVD formats (although Blu-ray is much, much better suited for computing applications)

it'd make more sense to add blu-ray as a mac pro or xserve option. but as far as options for consumer applications, doesn't make sense yet due to the cost.

"Give the man a cigar!"

It is far from clear that either Blu-ray or HD-DVD will prevail in the market place, especially with the price bias that will keep them from being in the homes of any but the bleeding edge early adopters. A few discs on the shelf at your friendly neighborhood Best Buy does not spell success (for either of them).

There will continue to be a market for media based movies & etc for a very long time to come. The dream of downloads is just that, a dream, for huge portions of the country. Many people remain saddled with dialup and have trouble even keeping their operating systems up-to-date because of it. (Neither Apple nor Microsoft have adequately addressed this problem.)

If someone has an urgent professional need for either of these formats it is quite simple to install one in their Mac Pro or attach it as an external SATA drive.

Consumers, on the other hand, will wait for the situation to resolve itself. Very few people believe that the current pricing of these drives is cost driven...try simple gouging/greed as a pricing factor. That is not a compelling combination.
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post #51 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut View Post

there is a wide spread Mac press/blog misperception on apples commitment to Blu-Ray. Its been suggested ever since Jobs was seen on stage with Sony Japan president, and Apple becoming a member on the Blu-Ray Associations Board. Apples only commitment of public record is to
H.264 codec standard. Maybe someone can find a quote i missed somewhere. Apple is on the fence official as far as i can see...and if you read this press release they seem more slanted toward HD-DVD.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html


From that (early 2005) press release, seems like Apple was keeping its options open:

Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

Of course, that was back in early '05, two years ago, and long before it became apparent that Blu-Ray was pulling ahead in disc sales, as it has been over the past few months.

Apple will likely jump in once there's a clear winner, and that's increasingly looking like it'll be Blu-Ray. But it's still early days yet. The problem is the PS3... it will increasingly tilt the playing field Sony's way here.

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post #52 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

The 12" PB is gone. What will replace it? I think something will

SUBNOTEBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK!!!!! Booyah!!


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post #53 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Personally I don't see the need in one for sub notebooks if they use a dock.

Sebastian


I agree with you I have an ultra portable that I take on long trips with a travel battery and I love it. For home use (when I use it at home which is not often) I can and do use an external DVD writer with it.
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post #54 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

The dream of downloads is just that, a dream, for huge portions of the country. Many people remain saddled with dialup and have trouble even keeping their operating systems up-to-date because of it. (Neither Apple nor Microsoft have adequately addressed this problem.)

I agree but Microsoft generally does better than Apple in this respect. For one, they offer stuff like service packs on CD, but they charge $5-$10 handling fee. Microsoft's non-service pack updates are usually smaller too. Most of Microsoft's updates patch the offending files. Apple's application updates basically mean that the entire application is re-installed with the new version.

I do have satellite internet and sometimes it's problematic. Their full download of the MW07 keynote is 1GB and I only managed to get half the file. Apple's Quicktime streaming just doesn't work. I've usually done OK with Apple's updates though, I just try to keep them in under 100GB batches per night when they update more than one program.
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post #55 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:27pm
There is no, to use a hackneyed phrase, there is no killer app yet.

CD: Killer app was clear audio, less corruption of data, and large data capacity, no more multi-disk installs

DVD: Killer app was significantly clearer video, portable movies w/ a laptop, no more multi-CD installs.

HD-DVD / Blue Ray: TBD
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post #56 of 109
4/7/07 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

From that (early 2005) press release, seems like Apple was keeping its options open:
Of course, that was back in early '05, two years ago, and long before it became apparent that Blu-Ray was pulling ahead in disc sales, as it has been over the past few months.

Apple will likely jump in once there's a clear winner, and that's increasingly looking like it'll be Blu-Ray. But it's still early days yet. The problem is the PS3... it will increasingly tilt the playing field Sony's way here.

.

I agree blu-ray is selling slightly more discs-with direct correlation to PS3. This market is still very small compared to DVD. Its still very much in the air. I feel as if whatever format apple decides will offer a tremendous amount of marketing momentum because of its high profile as an innovative lifestyle brand. HD-DVD offers better backward compatible DVD speeds at a lower price and has a clear marketing message DVD+HD.
BURN Speeds for legacy formats CD, CD-RW, DVD & DVD-DL are important because they will remain the main stream for the foreseeable future and will likely become more popular as prices for these formats will fall even lower.
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post #57 of 109
4/7/07 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I do have satellite internet and sometimes it's problematic. Their full download of the MW07 keynote is 1GB and I only managed to get half the file. Apple's Quicktime streaming just doesn't work. I've usually done OK with Apple's updates though, I just try to keep them in under 100GB batches per night when they update more than one program.

Too bad about your satellite internet. I'm always able to see the 'Stevenotes' with no problem on streaming Quicktime, and I d-loaded the last keynote off iTunes, again with no prob. But I do have a cable modem, not satellite.

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post #58 of 109
4/7/07 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacillus View Post

There is no, to use a hackneyed phrase, there is no “killer app” yet.

CD: Killer app was clear audio, less corruption of data, and large data capacity, no more multi-disk installs

DVD: Killer app was significantly clearer video, portable movies w/ a laptop, no more multi-CD installs.

HD-DVD / Blue Ray: TBD

Umm... high-definition video, just maybe?

People do watch movies on their laptops, after all, as you yourself note. Games will take advantage of the increased space too.

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post #59 of 109
4/7/07 at 6:21pm
A few people have touched on this before, but I think the thing to keep in mind that sticking a Blu-Ray drive into a Mac does not equate to playing next-gen (bought) content- read the page at FastMac, they don't dare to claim that; all this product really is is a fatter DVD-R. I think this makes the report, and the 'lagging behind' tagline, a non-story.

The extreme lengths that both next-gen format consortia have gone to to protect their data when played inside a computer (ie HDCP, High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) mean that having an add-on like this will never allow an upgraded mac to play that content, unless someone cracks the encryption scheme wide open.

To be certified to play HD content, there must be an end-to-end encrypted data path through the machine, even down to the digital connection to the display. As such, it requires a new platform (such as Santa Rosa for notebooks) to even consider it. Sure, Apple could also offer a Blu-Ray burner in their existing lineup, but I think people would be more than a bit miffed that they couldn't offer early adopters the ability to play HD content off it. They are much better off waiting until the tech is more settled before they try to implement it.
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post #60 of 109
4/7/07 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

It's not just a case of Apple putting a new drive in. They have to rip the guts out of OS X to make it check hundreds of times per second for voltage irregularities along the video card bus, to ensure the data is not being pilfered.

The day OS X can play HD is the day OS X is ruined.

Not sure I follow you. My 2 GIG Mac Dual G5 can burn an Hi Def DVD using DVD Pro HD using footage I shot on my Sony FX1 HDV Camera and can play it. I fully appreciate this is not a true HD DVD since it uses a standard DVD disk and only a Mac can play it but it is, sure as heck, true 1920 x 1080i HD output.
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post #61 of 109
4/7/07 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdawso View Post

The Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are not recorded on computers, but instead are sent to a manufacturer that "presses" them. The authoring software is all that is needed by professionals. Only us amateurs need the burner, and I expect them as a BTO shortly.

This is true of SD DVDs for mass duplication but you can also burn them for low volume. The same will be true of HD whatever format you choose (or wins out) , you will be able to burn them once we have burners or send disk away (or data on hard drive) to a pressing plant.
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post #62 of 109
4/7/07 at 8:38pm
Some insight for AI, BD drives = Insane Markup, just thought you all should know it is technological cost, but the markup is also crazy. Price is not an item in my opinion in Apple's decision.
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post #63 of 109
4/7/07 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by floccus View Post

Lets also not forget that most people still use a standard def. CRT TV... the HD revolution is more slow evolution. CD rom drives first appeared in the 80s, but they didn't start taking off till the 90s. Give it time folks..

LOL, and I'm sure not one of them own a Mac (jking). While I understand standard def. CRT TV's are by far dominant in existence, they are at this point obsolete. I personally know no-one under the age of 40 that does not own at least one HD TV.

Still any disc technology is yesterdays, it doesn't matter in five years no-one will be buying either, it reminds me of when all the talk was of how MD's were going to be the next step in music storage, just before the iPod took over the music industry and we learned we didnt need any disc storage (for music).
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post #64 of 109
4/7/07 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judgegavel View Post

CRT TV's are by far dominant in existence, they are at this point obsolete.

Labeling a tech "obsolete" just because it's not the newest technology available is a pet peeve of mind. CRT TVs are still being sold, their installed base holds the majority, and they use the same digital and analog inputs as plasma and LCD.
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post #65 of 109
4/7/07 at 9:12pm
Even if Apple offered a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive built-in, their Cinema Displays would be unable to play movie titles do to copy protection, right? You need a display with HDMI/HDCP, not DVI?

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post #66 of 109
4/7/07 at 9:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judgegavel View Post

I personally know no-one under the age of 40 that does not own at least one HD TV.

I only know three people that own an HDTV. All are well over 40. Only one has any sort of HD content available for their HDTV.
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post #67 of 109
4/7/07 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Even if Apple offered a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive built-in, their Cinema Displays would be unable to play movie titles do to copy protection, right? You need a display with HDMI/HDCP, not DVI?

For this reason and the others enumerated above, prosumers are in a major holding pattern. But the next sixteen months are likely to bring definitive changes and standards that will hold up for a while — HDMI/HDCP displays, graphic chipsets built into and augmenting the core cpu, an OS that balances DRM with the needs of creative professionals, increasingly common (and simplified) RAID setups, a sorting out of the 15+ Gig optical disc question, and so on. We're on the cusp of it all.
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post #68 of 109
4/7/07 at 10:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Obviously, some professionals have been making that investment already, with the numerous BR and HDVD titles that are available and selling now. Those discs didn't just make themselves. I'm pretty sure that the cost of the hardware is factored into the job bid. Stuff like that depreciates quickly either way, but that should be factored into the price of doing the work, and thus not really a loss but a gain for being able to take on a lucrative project.

The problem is that Apple likes to pretend that it's professional editing suite is leading-edge but they fail to properly support either leading-edge format. Right now, Apple-using pros don't have any means to tap that growing market because their software won't do proper BR/HDVD authoring, and the hardware options are scant. Contrast this when in Jan 2005, their consumer software can capture and edit HD, but even now, their pro software and hardware doesn't offer recording or distribution capabilities for that captured and edited HD.

The Blu-Ray and HD-DVD you are seeing today is made by DVD duplicators by using DVD pressing -- which is not the same as DVD burning in computers.

At any rate, Apple does not have the software to support HD-DVD or Blu-Ray yet. This may very well come at NAB. If so, you may then see blu-ray or hd-dvd drives in macs. Get my drift?

Apple likes complete eco-systems.
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post #69 of 109
4/7/07 at 11:05pm
the 17" and 15" macbook pro are both 1 inch thick so why is it that it is not available for the 15" and the macbook is even thicker,so why is it not available for the macbook
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post #70 of 109
4/7/07 at 11:37pm
Because in the 17-inch, the optical drive can use all of the vertical inch of space, whereas in the 15 inch, the optical has to sit on top of part of the mobo.
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post #71 of 109
4/8/07 at 2:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by highbrow View Post

A few people have touched on this before, but I think the thing to keep in mind that sticking a Blu-Ray drive into a Mac does not equate to playing next-gen (bought) content- read the page at FastMac, they don't dare to claim that; all this product really is is a fatter DVD-R. I think this makes the report, and the 'lagging behind' tagline, a non-story.

The extreme lengths that both next-gen format consortia have gone to to protect their data when played inside a computer (ie HDCP, High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) mean that having an add-on like this will never allow an upgraded mac to play that content, unless someone cracks the encryption scheme wide open.

To be certified to play HD content, there must be an end-to-end encrypted data path through the machine, even down to the digital connection to the display. As such, it requires a new platform (such as Santa Rosa for notebooks) to even consider it. Sure, Apple could also offer a Blu-Ray burner in their existing lineup, but I think people would be more than a bit miffed that they couldn't offer early adopters the ability to play HD content off it. They are much better off waiting until the tech is more settled before they try to implement it.

Well said.

Just to make it crystal clear: you cannot use this drive in a Mac to play commercial HD content. For two reasons:

1.) The Macs you can put it in don't have (to my knowledge) HDCP

2.) OS X doesn't support VC-1 or H.264 High-Profile.

I don't get the point of this drive.
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post #72 of 109
4/8/07 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceTx View Post

I seriously doubt there is much of a market for an $800 notebook optical drive at this point. FastMac won't exactly be selling a ton of these, so that's probably why Apple isn't in any hurry to make their own drives available. Once the prices drop and Blu-Ray becomes more mainstream, you'll start seeing them available BTO from Apple.

I agree. I also suspect that most people using MBs or MBPs are perfectly happy, for the moment, to attach an HD device externally. It's a rather small market at the moment, and as you pointed out, the price of admission is very steep, so whomever opts in is going to really need it.
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post #73 of 109
4/8/07 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Well said.

Just to make it crystal clear: you cannot use this drive in a Mac to play commercial HD content. For two reasons:

1.) The Macs you can put it in don't have (to my knowledge) HDCP

2.) OS X doesn't support VC-1 or H.264 High-Profile.

I don't get the point of this drive.

apples $599.00 - $1,799.00 Cinema Display don't have HDCP as well at a time when cheaper ones do what is apple doing to do with pissed off Cinema Display owners who payed a lot and now have to get rip of them?
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post #74 of 109
4/8/07 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodandimac View Post

Why are people so focused on disc formats when downloads and streaming are clearly right around the corner? If you have an AppleTV, watch a movie trailer. It's streaming from the Apple trailer site and it looks great (and obviously could be improved a little). How hard would it be for Apple to charge $10-20 a month and offer a streaming rental service? Really easy.

I agree that the service is fast and good. I don't think the previews are HD though (I may be wrong). Apple's main challenges with this include
1) Finding a way of handling the immense bandwidth on their servers (perhaps a peer-to-peer file sharing method!)
2) Finding a way of making it easier for ISPs to handle the immense bandwidth (peer-to-peer favouring a local network?)
3) A financial model (this may be solved by #1 and #2). A purchasing model saves Apple bandwidth (users download once only, and pay a premium price) where rental would kill bandwidth. (Apple may be able to partner with individual ISPs to solve this too.)

(btw, though it's usually flawless, I have had 2 hiccups with streaming trailers on a 6Mbps connection, so I'd like the AppleTV to automatically pause if it gets ahead of the streaming and use the TOTAL time so far in its re-estimate of the download time required.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple is clearly supporting Blu-ray as they are on the board. As I recall, commercial HD-DVD discs use both H.264 and VC-1 (Microsoft's codec) while Blu-ray only uses the former.

Both BluRay and HD-DVD use h264 (mpeg-4/10), vc-1, and mpeg-2. Further to that, a BluRay or HD-DVD player MUST support all 3 codecs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

My 2 GIG Mac Dual G5 can burn an Hi Def DVD using DVD Pro HD using footage I shot on my Sony FX1 HDV Camera and can play it. I fully appreciate this is not a true HD DVD since it uses a standard DVD disk and only a Mac can play it but it is, sure as heck, true 1920 x 1080i HD output.

That's excellent. Warner Bros pushed a HD-DVD standard to allow HD films on regular DVDs (I think they called it HD-DVD9??). Is this what you're producing or is it unique to Apple?

ie: Will your Apple Hi Def DVD play in a regular HD-DVD player?
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post #75 of 109
4/8/07 at 10:26am
Quote:
Apple doesn't offer the authoring software, so if a Mac is used to edit or encode a video, they'll likely have to hand it off to someone else to do the authoring work.

I see what you are saying, but HD-DVD and Blu-ray are still pretty much bleeding edge. Of the people I know in the post-production world, I don't know of anyone who has a pressing need to use either format.

Apple will probably offer support in these next updates and I'm sure more people will begin to use the formats but for right now its not a big problem.

Quote:
I fully appreciate this is not a true HD DVD since it uses a standard DVD disk and only a Mac can play it but it is, sure as heck, true 1920 x 1080i HD output.

The disk is just a storage medium. It doesn't determine the resolution or quality of the content. Red laser DVD can store HD content, just not very much of it. The only real advantage the blue laser disks have over standard red laser DVD is the fact that they have higher storage density and can store more data. Because of that fact they are marketed as HD.
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post #76 of 109
4/8/07 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Labeling a tech "obsolete" just because it's not the newest technology available is a pet peeve of mind. CRT TVs are still being sold, their installed base holds the majority, and they use the same digital and analog inputs as plasma and LCD.

You cut off half my sentence, the CRT part is not what makes it obsolete, the SD part is. SD CRT TV are still available, but for the most part are a small fraction of TV's sold, and are obsolete. HD CRT's are still very popular and by far the cheapest way to get HD, and are not at all obsolete, just heavy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

I only know three people that own an HDTV. All are well over 40. Only one has any sort of HD content available for their HDTV.

How many have electricity . Why would you have an HDTV and not get HD content, thats a huge waste of money.

Still stick by my statement, I would say I know well over 10 close friends or couples between 30-40 all of whom have at least one HDTV, all with HD content.
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post #77 of 109
4/8/07 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I see what you are saying, but HD-DVD and Blu-ray are still pretty much bleeding edge. Of the people I know in the post-production world, I don't know of anyone who has a pressing need to use either format.

That's just of the people that you know. The current Final Cut Studio suite has been used to author consumer DVDs for the major studios, such as Disney's Mary Poppins SE. As many new movies are moving towards day & date DVD & HD releases, those using FCS are going to be losing out on those opportunities. True BRD and HD-DVD support is extremely significant, such that if Apple follows its FCS updage pattern, it will be added to FCS this year or in 2009, and that's too long to wait and too big of a potential market to lose and too big of a potential credibility loss as that would mean that Apple is only pretending that its pro tools are cutting edge.
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post #78 of 109
4/8/07 at 11:04am
That may be but for the most part major studios are not really FCS primary market. I guarantee any high end company that maybe using DVDSP is also using a lot of proprietary software and plug ins.

There are whole business devoted to DVD compression. Most of these companies use proprietary DVD compression software and have a compression specialist who will figure out how to get all of the content on the disk with the least amount of artifacts and the best quality picture.

I've been to Technicolor and seen how they make DVD's. This is the type of service most of the studios are using. Technicolor Content Services
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post #79 of 109
4/8/07 at 11:11am
I'm not disagreeing with you that Apple should add Blu-ray and HD-DVD support. We should see full support come April 15th. I would be extremely shocked if we didn't. I'm just saying that the majority of people who use FCS have not had a need for it.
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post #80 of 109
4/8/07 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judgegavel View Post

You cut off half my sentence, the CRT part is not what makes it obsolete, the SD part is. SD CRT TV are still available, but for the most part are a small fraction of TV's sold, and are obsolete. HD CRT's are still very popular and by far the cheapest way to get HD, and are not at all obsolete, just heavy.

I can't get more than a handful of HD channels from my cable company, yet I have several hundred in SD, but somehow it has obsolesced?

Cable, satellite and terrestrial broadcasters are atill primarily using the NTSC (or PAL) SD single. HD content for many satellite and cable companies is an additional fee, not the default package. Once HD becomes the standard and broadcasters stop supporting NTSC (or PAL) then SD will be obsolete.

As for people who own HD set, I personally know of at least a dozen homes that have HD sets and they all have at least two other SD sets in use. Besides that I can think of many more homes that only have SD sets in use.

I have no doubt that SD and CRT will go the way of the dodo, but that day has not come yet nor will it for many years to come.

When broadcasters stop transmitting in SD, and only then, will it have become obsolete. But that won't happen until the install base of HD sets is greater than SD sets.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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