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Apple delays Leopard release until October - Page 5

post #161 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by AISI View Post

Well, it depends what you mean by 'communicating.' Last month Apple basically lied to us: Apple says Leopard won't be delayed. \

Sounds like the form of comunication is called lying. First they say that there will be no delay, then they blame the ^@#$ phone. Come clean, lying to the market and customers is not a good thing.
post #162 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage&Onion View Post

ALSO! One disc can be used on ALL your computers!!! The upgrade cost is about 25 per comp if you are replacing 5 macs!

And if you just go into an Apple Store and steal it off the shelf, it costs $0 per Mac!!!!

You are meant to buy one copy per Mac you wish to upgrade. For families, there is the 5-pack for $199 (a fantastic deal).
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post #163 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Great news. I'll be picking up another handful after the short-sellers irrationally knock AAPL down... hope it drops to around 65 to 70!... if it does, probably buy another 10-20 thousand worth.

You're a smart guy, Spam old chap!
post #164 of 505
Face it. It's Apple, not Apple Computer anymore.

OS will come in second because of the loyal customer base.

Betting big on iPhone ... we shall see.
post #165 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

And if you just go into an Apple Store and steal it off the shelf, it costs $0 per Mac!!!!

You are meant to buy one copy per Mac you wish to upgrade. For families, there is the 5-pack for $199 (a fantastic deal).

But we both know how common this is. I hope Apple monitors it's install base based on update requests and not purchases + retail sales of OS X.
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post #166 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucina View Post

Face it. It's Apple, not Apple Computer anymore.

OS will come in second because of the loyal customer base.

Betting big on iPhone ... we shall see.

Or a relatively satisfied customer base. There is far more pain in my ability to find an
adequate smartphone than in getting my daily affairs done with current OS X.
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post #167 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucina View Post

Face it. It's Apple, not Apple Computer anymore.

OS will come in second because of the loyal customer base.

Betting big on iPhone ... we shall see.

How is changing the name mean that Apple is somehow defaulting on their commitment to offer a good computer? The iPhone is a computer. Leopard for Mac is only being delayed until Leopard for iPhone is out.

No need for us to drink the Kool-Aid just yet.
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post #168 of 505
Apple will loose a good deal of educational market share for this year because of this.
post #169 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by webmail View Post

Heh, I still hold 100,000 shares. 10,000 of those were at about $14.00 while the other shares were around $60.00

Wow and congrats Webmail! You da man!
post #170 of 505
As soon as the new Adobe CS is released, Apple needs to start including a free OS upgrade with every computer sold or the professional community may delay their purchases another six month.
post #171 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.wannan View Post

Well... I'm not so bothered about the delay in Leopard's release... the only thing for me is Boot Camp... this is timed beta software, due to expire at least in part in September - if we don't get Leopard (and the 'full' version of Boot Camp) till October now, what's going to happen to those of us heathens running Windows on Boot Camp on our Macs?

Stop running Windows?
post #172 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by webmail View Post

So Apple is not viable because of a 3 month delay, however Microsoft is viable for your company when it released details about the OS, then completely changed it, stripping it of all good features, then delayed it 1.....2......3.... years...

Glad I don't work with your logic.

Ditto!
post #173 of 505
I just registered so I can post this.

Please people keep a little perspective here. Leopard has been delayed four months - not four years.

As somebody posted earlier, good developers don't just grow on trees. They had to move some people from Leopard to get the iPhone finished. Which is understandable since the IPhone is undoubtedly one of the most important products Apple has ever shipped. If iPhone shipped and the software sucked Apple would loose much credibility.

I'm a software developer and I can tell you Leopard will easily be the best release of OSX ever. You are going to see some amazing stuff for it. It's a programmers dream OS.

Remember, it's only four months.

And BTW, if you need new hardware, just buy it!!!!!!

Sheesh.
post #174 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.wannan View Post

Well... I'm not so bothered about the delay in Leopard's release... the only thing for me is Boot Camp... this is timed beta software, due to expire at least in part in September - if we don't get Leopard (and the 'full' version of Boot Camp) till October now, what's going to happen to those of us heathens running Windows on Boot Camp on our Macs?

No need to worry. When the beta expires, it does not stop working. You just won't ever get support for it from Apple, and there won't be any updates. It is rumoured that Apple will offer Boot Camp final as a stand-alone product for Tiger users.
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post #175 of 505
So, I've been a member of AI for quite a long time. In the past 2 years or so I really haven't visited much, as my interest in rumors is slowly decreasing. I'm a professional grapic designer who sees a computer as just another tool, like a pencil or marker. My infatuation with the latest and greatest has waned, as I see a lot of it now as gimmickey and just another reason to get users to upgrade. Now, after all of these years of not really caring or having any inside information, I finally heard some news from a very reliable source. I don't know anything more than what I'll state below, so I won't be able to answer any more follow up questions, or quite frankly, have any more access to additional info. It was a one-time spilling of the beans by someone who should have kept their mouth shut I'm guessing. Choose to believe me or not, but as you can see from my posting history, I'm not much of a speculator these days. I'm posting this because for once, I actually know a little somthing. It's not ground-breaking, but it may shed a little light on the situation.

Here goes:

-The iPhone is indeed a huge drain on Apple right now. Engineering efforts are intense around the new product due to various reasons.

- The iPhone was originally was designed with a plastic LCD screen - it has been switched to glass at the last minute. I am not certain of the reason behind the switch, but engineering is struggling to implement the last-minute change.

-There are worries within engineering about the durability of the new glass screens.

-Projections for the phone are huge. Over 1 million units a month.

-The interface of the iPhone is really shaking up Leopard. Many of the new interface paradigms are being folded into the OS.

-Touch-everything. A massive rethinking about how people interact with hardware will be introduced.

-There is a huge amount of R&D regarding multi-touch. It's resulting in some amazing new interface opportunities.

That's all I really know as being factual. Some of it is rather obvious, but the impact that the phone is having on Apple is perhaps the most interesting nugget. If one were to speculate, it seems Apple is telling a half-truth about the Leopard delay. yes, the phone is a drain on Apple, but the delay is most-likely related to rolling new interface features into Leopard and developing the hardware to drive it. Needless to say, it will interesting to see what Apple unveils in October.
post #176 of 505
Well I hope that they aren't using Leopard as an excuse to delay major hardware upgrades. They need to do something groundbreaking with hardware.
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post #177 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

It's a bummer that Leopard is delayed but let's be honest Tiger hasn't even hit its 2nd birthday. It's not like we have a rapidly growing defunct OS. Unlike others ...I do want the iPhone to have tremendous success because it's platform agnostic and iTunes/iPods shows us that when Apple nails this they make a lot of cash and that funds cool new Mac products. A few more months is trivial to wait IMO.

Well said, H!
post #178 of 505
so what does this mean for hardware upgrades? i can wait for leopard, but i could really do with a new machine...
post #179 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker View Post

Woah, man, get a sedative. Is 10.4 really suddenly so awful?

As always, Chucker, the voice of reason!
post #180 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by disco View Post

So, I've been a member of AI for quite a long time. In the past 2 years or so I really haven't visited much, as my interest in rumors is slowly decreasing. I'm a professional grapic designer who sees a computer as just another tool, like a pencil or marker. My infatuation with the latest and greatest has waned, as I see a lot of it now as gimmickey and just another reason to get users to upgrade. Now, after all of these years of not really caring or having any inside information, I finally heard some news from a very reliable source. I don't know anything more than what I'll state below, so I won't be able to answer any more follow up questions, or quite frankly, have any more access to additional info. It was a one-time spilling of the beans by someone who should have kept their mouth shut I'm guessing. Choose to believe me or not, but as you can see from my posting history, I'm not much of a speculator these days. I'm posting this because for once, I actually know a little somthing. It's not ground-breaking, but it may shed a little light on the situation.

Here goes:

-The iPhone is indeed a huge drain on Apple right now. Engineering efforts are intense around the new product due to various reasons.

- The iPhone was originally was designed with a plastic LCD screen - it has been switched to glass at the last minute. I am not certain of the reason behind the switch, but engineering is struggling to implement the last-minute change.

-There are worries within engineering about the durability of the new glass screens.

-Projections for the phone are huge. Over 1 million units a month.

-The interface of the iPhone is really shaking up Leopard. Many of the new interface paradigms are being folded into the OS.

-Touch-everything. A massive rethinking about how people interact with hardware will be introduced.

-There is a huge amount of R&D regarding multi-touch. It's resulting in some amazing new interface opportunities.

That's all I really know as being factual. Some of it is rather obvious, but the impact that the phone is having on Apple is perhaps the most interesting nugget. If one were to speculate, it seems Apple is telling a half-truth about the Leopard delay. yes, the phone is a drain on Apple, but the delay is most-likely related to rolling new interface features into Leopard and developing the hardware to drive it. Needless to say, it will interesting to see what Apple unveils in October.

Great stuff. Thanks.
post #181 of 505
iCry!
post #182 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgNuke1707 View Post

So many mad and disheartened people out there. I'm a little bummed, but it's not a show stopper. I'm running 10.4.9 on the last iMac G5 and it's still strong with no noticeable slowdown (and I can still run CS2 and Office natively on PPC ).

I think Apple is sort of at a crossroads right now, trying to deal with their meteroic rise as a recognizeable consumer electronics brand. Everyone wants the iPod to evolve. Lots of people want the iPhone to get here. There's the foray into DRM-free music next month. Not to mention the development of an entirely new GUI with Multi-touch. It seems like a lot is going on behind the scenes out in Cali, but Steve has always been a shrewd businessman. We can sit here and speculate all we want and drive ourselves nuts, but truth be told, I'd much rather give Apple a break and let them iron everything out. I think we'll see some revolutionary stuff from Apple down the stretch this year ... right in time for the holidays so they you know ... make lots of money off of all this pent up craziness from people waiting to buy buy buy...

So, take your time Steve ... I'd rather you get a solid and mind-blowing OS out the door than a mind-blowing OS that we can't use because of the bugs. I've always been an early OS adopter for Apple ... I'll continue to be this time around...

Finally, we're starting to get words of wisdom and concrete analysis on this thread.
post #183 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by disco View Post

So, I've been a member of AI for quite a long time. In the past 2 years or so I really haven't visited much, as my interest in rumors is slowly decreasing. I'm a professional grapic designer ... it will interesting to see what Apple unveils in October.

Taking you at your word, an interesting and leveling post.

They are only human - we all know that right?
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post #184 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How about 10.4.10? If you think that it shouldn't past nine then the current version would be 1.0.4.9.

Moving on...

Positive things that we now know.
1) The iPhone will not be delayed.
2) I will have all the features of !0.5 at the WWDC.

S,

2 excellent points.
post #185 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

This is an odd situation. Will they work on a 10.4.10, or just leave us hanging for 6 months?

Really, that sums the situation up, who would have thought! I am looking forward to 10.9.9!
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post #186 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porchland View Post

Maybe... Steve will be cracking the whip the next two months, by June Apple will miraculously be ahead of schedule, and Apple will announce an earlier ship date at WWDC.

Yep, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.

AAPL stock will see $80 again before it sees $100.
post #187 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by disco View Post

So, I've been a member of AI for quite a long time. In the past 2 years or so I really haven't visited much, as my interest in rumors is slowly decreasing. I'm a professional grapic designer who sees a computer as just another tool, like a pencil or marker. My infatuation with the latest and greatest has waned, as I see a lot of it now as gimmickey and just another reason to get users to upgrade. Now, after all of these years of not really caring or having any inside information, I finally heard some news from a very reliable source. I don't know anything more than what I'll state below, so I won't be able to answer any more follow up questions, or quite frankly, have any more access to additional info. It was a one-time spilling of the beans by someone who should have kept their mouth shut I'm guessing. Choose to believe me or not, but as you can see from my posting history, I'm not much of a speculator these days. I'm posting this because for once, I actually know a little somthing. It's not ground-breaking, but it may shed a little light on the situation.

Here goes:

-The iPhone is indeed a huge drain on Apple right now. Engineering efforts are intense around the new product due to various reasons.

- The iPhone was originally was designed with a plastic LCD screen - it has been switched to glass at the last minute. I am not certain of the reason behind the switch, but engineering is struggling to implement the last-minute change.

-There are worries within engineering about the durability of the new glass screens.

-Projections for the phone are huge. Over 1 million units a month.

-The interface of the iPhone is really shaking up Leopard. Many of the new interface paradigms are being folded into the OS.

-Touch-everything. A massive rethinking about how people interact with hardware will be introduced.

-There is a huge amount of R&D regarding multi-touch. It's resulting in some amazing new interface opportunities.

That's all I really know as being factual. Some of it is rather obvious, but the impact that the phone is having on Apple is perhaps the most interesting nugget. If one were to speculate, it seems Apple is telling a half-truth about the Leopard delay. yes, the phone is a drain on Apple, but the delay is most-likely related to rolling new interface features into Leopard and developing the hardware to drive it. Needless to say, it will interesting to see what Apple unveils in October.


Excellent Post! Thanks for the info and insights!

I too was thinking that today's annoucement was probably a half truth--here's why?


- I think Apple/Jobs have been quite surprised by the emptiness and issues with Vista.

- I believe as a couple of months passed, more and more reviewers were saying Vista needed huge memory and had many security vs. practical usability drawbacks.

- Finally, Vista has not been selling that well...

- On the other hand, despite Vista, Mac sales since Vista launch has not been hurt and the Intel Macs and Boot Camp/Parallels have been getting greater traction due to Vista's weaknesses.


If you are a corporate strategy guy and you see this competitive opening then you could very well rethink, reconsider, look at the Intel Chips, sense greater Microsoft vulnerability and say to yourself: " Well, lets do even better than we planned with Leopard, not just Apple TV and Iphone integration but Vista BootCamp integration, leverage latest Intel Chips and take an additional 4 months and go for the knockout Punch!

So, I think that this could very well be the latest thinking....lets take a little more it, beef it up even more, make Vista look ancient by fall of '07 and go for the Microsoft/Vista knockout punch and let the Iphone and Apple TV all then work in synergy to really make a quantum jump in the consumer mindset and create a huge powerball effect.

Maybe I thinking this too much but something tells me the above thoughts may have some reasonable probability of being reasonably on target.

In the process, Mac sales may come roaring back once Adobe PS3 ships......and Apple will actually optimize by making this strategic timing change.
post #188 of 505
Over reaction.

We have been relatively spoiled as of late with Apple meeting or beating its self imposed deadlines. All the posts about Apple neglecting the mac and osx is totally a knee jerk reaction. Using the iPhone as an reason may just be an excuse because it's just still too buggy for primetime. Think about this: if Apple always announced Leopard would be available Fall '07 no one would be complaining right now. Think about this.

I am a small time mac developer. If any of you know software, last minute problems will make you want to tear your hair out. You'll spend a disproportionate amount of time fixing them. I always seem to miss on general my self imposed deadlines by a month. Apple must have good reason to stall the release - people email me thinking they know better about why something doesnt work this way or why it cant do this or that in my program. They think they're the first to think of it and in reality, I did think about it extensively, weighed the pros and cons and made the best decision. It's probably true the iPhone sucked away some programming but the bug list was probably too prevailing.

Think of the bright side: This stall infers a part of complexity of Leopard which hints of some spiffy unannounced features.

Calm down. Hopefully if Apple is wise they'll offer free Leopard coupons June forward.
post #189 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The new iLife will drop it's yearly naming scheme for good, and become part of Leopard, iWork may very likely do the same.

I wouldn't have thought so. Rolling iLife and iWork into the OS would cause quite a stink with competitors and drop them revenue. Maybe they'll just do 'Leopard Edition' or something like that or start using version numbers again like the good old days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post

Pure jibberish!

It demonstrates the exact opposite to the corporate community--a responsible company that is not going to panic and pull a 'Vista" by releasing a product that is not ready for prime time.

IT managers in Wintel Wonderland understand this and are waiting until Vista matures enough, if ever, before they deploy it.

Exactly. Most of corporate Wintel land are still ordering computers with XP on them so that they get a stable computer and are waiting for SP1 or even SP2 of Vista before even thinking about it.

In the same way, the smart people will be looking at OSX 10.4 which has had TEN releases in the last two years and is as stable as they come by now. I can't imagine any company of any size delaying for an x.0 product.
post #190 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Well you still do. Hardware updates are still expected irrespective of this.

I know people are quick to defend Apple but marketing suggests Leopard competes with Vista. Vista will be 10 months old when Leopard gets out. I think this will put off switchers for a while because they like to look for reasons not to make a platform change.

Apple touts itself as being a company that delivers and therefore had the right to make fun of their rivals. These constant slips make them less and less deserving of their position. People are not just overreacting to this news, Apple have been making more and more mistakes and they seem to point to their attempts at new products. Perhaps they feel that after the ipod success, they can do nothing wrong.

I actually believe them when they blame the iphone because it seems like a pretty complicated device to make, especially if you are entering a new market because you have to make a great first impression. I don't have many hopes for the iphone either because I think that at the end of the day, it's a gadget that is too expensive for the majority of people and it doesn't offer enough in terms of storage. I would rather get a phone and an ipod than an iphone.

I'm not sure whether I dislike the iphone entirely though. It seems like it is being used to improve OS X and I really think it needs some streamlining. I'm not happy about the recurring reports about Leopard updates still being full of bugs though. How can this be if they still plan to have it ready for final testing by early June, just two months away?

If it will reach final by the same time we expect then I don't suppose there's all that much of a problem because we should still hear about secret features and see all the improvements.



You sure it's not judging how pissed off everyone is? Red seems so appropriate in this case. As soon as I saw mention of the iphone, I knew that would just get people going.



I can see it now:

*Jobs walks on stage*
Ok, we've got some great things for you developers over the next few months but I want to talk about the iphone...
*sound of guns being cocked*

Growing pains, Marvin, growing pains. Apple is undergoing massive growth in its product portfolio and managing that growth properly is crucial for the continued long term success of the company. This is a small moment in a time of exponential growth. Many companies have faltered big time by not correctly managing their growth.

___________________________________________

Here are 3 examples of tech companies that did not manage their explosive growth very well, CSCO, IOM and CNXT. One, CSCO, has finally overcome their failure and is just now back to being the powehouse they once were. Two others, Iomega (IOM) and Conexant (CNXT) are hanging on by a thread. Go to Google finance, type in their symbols in the search box and check out their lifetime charts (click Max on the chart)

http://finance.google.com/finance
post #191 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball View Post

Apple will loose a good deal of educational market share for this year because of this.

Why? Schools and students still need to buy computers. It really doesn't matter if it's 10.4 or 10.5 to getting your work done.
post #192 of 505
I'm disappointed, not all that surprised. If Leopard was on time, we would have heard something about back at Mac(less)World.
post #193 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

So what does this means to iLife, iWorks, and the rest of the software?????

Holy Crap!

I would expect to skip '07 and go right to '08.
post #194 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsbeme View Post

As soon as the new Adobe CS is released, Apple needs to start including a free OS upgrade with every computer sold or the professional community may delay their purchases another six month.

Why? Adobe CS3 doesn't depend on Leopard. Once you're in Photoshop or Illustrator you don't see the OS or care about it.
post #195 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

I would expect to skip '07 and go right to '08.

Good point. Microsoft are calling Office 'Office 2008' even though it's released this year. Apple could go mano y mano with them if they get that spreadsheet application in there this year and brush up the features in Pages.
post #196 of 505
I am sure Apple Inc. feels bad about being late with 10.5. The Windows crowd is going to take full advantage and point figures in light of the 5 year wait for Vista. I certainly would hope that Apple learns and does not allow this to re-occur.
It is my sincere wish that I am very wrong, but I cannot wonder if this will have a damaging effect on the over-all sales for Apple Inc. this year. Take into consideration they already note a sales slump because of people awaiting 10.5 . Will they wait or will they just buy Windows instad?
Is there not going to be a bit of a problem with the lateness of 10.5 and the expiry of BootCamp? perhaps it should be extended for six months.
post #197 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Good point. Microsoft are calling Office 'Office 2008' even though it's released this year. Apple could go mano y mano with them if they get that spreadsheet application in there this year and brush up the features in Pages.

Microsoft does that to differentiate between the Mac and windows versions of office.
post #198 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorMatt View Post

Over reaction.

We have been relatively spoiled as of late with Apple meeting or beating its self imposed deadlines. All the posts about Apple neglecting the mac and osx is totally a knee jerk reaction. Using the iPhone as an reason may just be an excuse because it's just still too buggy for primetime. Think about this: if Apple always announced Leopard would be available Fall '07 no one would be complaining right now. Think about this.

I am a small time mac developer. If any of you know software, last minute problems will make you want to tear your hair out. You'll spend a disproportionate amount of time fixing them. I always seem to miss on general my self imposed deadlines by a month. Apple must have good reason to stall the release - people email me thinking they know better about why something doesnt work this way or why it cant do this or that in my program. They think they're the first to think of it and in reality, I did think about it extensively, weighed the pros and cons and made the best decision. It's probably true the iPhone sucked away some programming but the bug list was probably too prevailing.

Think of the bright side: This stall infers a part of complexity of Leopard which hints of some spiffy unannounced features.

Calm down. Hopefully if Apple is wise they'll offer free Leopard coupons June forward.

So true. I'm actually amazed at the people who think that because an OS doesn't have new blinking lights and swoosh sounds that it's a subpar upgrade. Even the stuff that Apple has made public on the WWDC sight is significant. Leopard has a lot of stuff that needs to work right and when it does we are all going to have wonderful applications. I pray they get take their time and get it right. I don't even need the Top Secret features to know I want the OS.
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post #199 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Microsoft does that to differentiate between the Mac and windows versions of office.

I know. It's still bizarre though.

I've had time to think more about this now and though it's disappointing, especially as the iPhone isn't even being released here in the UK till the end of the year anyway, I think it's a good thing.

If Apple are giving out a near feature complete 10.5 beta at WWDC this year and then 3rd party developers have got 3-4 months to sort out their bugs and also to tell Apple about their own bugs, that's a very good thing. I didn't really like the idea of Apple springing surprise features on everyone in June and calling it done.

I imagine that many developers both at Apple and elsewhere are breathing a huge sigh of relief that it's been delayed for a little more and they can relax the caffeine levels a bit and see the kids a bit more often now.
post #200 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

A certain percentage of people are waiting for Leopard. But, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that most of them will now go out and buy a machine rather than wait.

The waiting will start again in August.

I agree. I was going to wait, but Im purchasing a new mac within a week. 6 months is just too long to wait. At least its not 5 years
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