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Apple delays Leopard release until October - Page 7

post #241 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by badNameErr View Post

I do understand your point but remember, some of the non Mac products (iPhone, iPod, ATV) will help Apple sell Macs in the long run. Its all about the "halo effect". The Mac (OSX really) is still the centre of Apple's universe (as seen by iPhone and ATV). Apple shipped an entire new range of Macs last year and I would have been shocked had they released any new Macs at MacWorld in January. That really is just expecting far too much. Developing hardware/software products isn't easy and Apple aren't super human. Yes, a preview of the new iLife products would have been nice at MacWorld.

Also, some people seem to be implying that Apple's excuse for Leopard slipping isn't because they moved developers/testers to the iPhone team. I think your probably mistaken. Porting OSX to an entirely new hardware platform (with lots of limitations) is a non trivial task. It sounds like the truth to me anyway.

Again I understand your points and concerns but I don't think you have any real reasons to be "big time disappointed".
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

(Hey, its my second post - this may become a habit!)

badNameErr,

Very reasonable post with well made points.

Apple is in the midst of explosive growth. Managing that growth is bound to produce a hiccup or two. See the big picture. The iPhone, if done right, means Mega $ to Apple. In the lomg run, those $ will eventually translate into better computer hardware and software for all of us.
post #242 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

I know this is a Leopard thread sorry for bringing up my issues with hardware. I guess Apple will just be late with everything.

Since when has Apple EVER been EARLY when is comes to hardware releases?
post #243 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

LEOPARD DELAYED! IPHONE FAILED! GOV'T BEHIND 9/11! SKY IS FALLING!

If it is all you can say, than you understood that my conclusion was right.
(;
post #244 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Grrr. Still pees me off that everything has to go through iTunes now to sync instead of them porting iSync to Windows.

Me too. I understand Apple's "one app to control them all" model but I personally would prefer not to use iTunes in that way. Honestly, I can't say that I'd do it any differently if I were in Apple's shoes.
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post #245 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by badNameErr View Post

Since when has Apple EVER been EARLY when is comes to hardware releases?

Sorry. I forgot they're late with all of that too.
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post #246 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Like I said, they didn't have to say anyting. Plus, when does changing your mind or finding out new information mean you're lying.

Them changing their mind so late in the project isn't a credible explaination. If they really did change their mind in the last two weeks, then I don't think they knew what they were doing with respect to project management. It was about two months from when they should be "going gold" and three months from their projected official release, they should have been the home stretch and have had a very good idea of where the project was.
post #247 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by badNameErr View Post

Since when has Apple EVER been EARLY when is comes to hardware releases?

Every Intel transition except for Xserve?
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post #248 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

Did you miss their anouncement a few days ago where they stasted that Leopard was not going to be delayed?

Which announcement was that?

IIRC that rumour was an analyst saying that they'd talked to someone at Apple and they'd confirmed it was on schedule. I remember reading it but now can't find it (and it's too general to google for).
post #249 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Them changing their mind so late in the project isn't a credible explaination. If they really did change their mind in the last two weeks, then I don't think they knew what they were doing with respect to project management. It was about two months from when they should be "going gold" and three months from their projected official release, they should have been the home stretch and have had a very good idea of where the project was.

Just think, Apple might be able to stretch Leopard out over two years and bring in the new cat in 2009. With this extra time they're getting they'd better have a flawless launch. If they end up sending out patches right away they'll look even worse. You'll be able to hear laughter everywhere from Microsoft users.
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post #250 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Them changing their mind so late in the project isn't a credible explaination. If they really did change their mind in the last two weeks, then I don't think they knew what they were doing with respect to project management. It was about two months from when they should be "going gold" and three months from their projected official release, they should have been the home stretch and have had a very good idea of where the project was.

Have you never been working on a project, saw the end was close at hand and then something came up that forced a major delay? I'm being general here, but In reference to my personal experience with software it's happened more than once. These Leopard builds are proof that things aren't moving as smoothly as they could.

I still stand by the fact that Apple could have said nothing and merely given us an October release date at WWDC.
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post #251 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Have you never been working on a project, saw the end was close at hand and then something came up that forced a major delay? I'm being general here, but In reference to my personal experience with software it's happened more than once. These Leopard builds are proof that things aren't moving as smoothly as they could.

I still stand by the fact that Apple could have said nothing and merely given us an October release date at WWDC.

Or they could have sent out pictures of a Leopard in the snow wearing a santa hat.
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post #252 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

Or they could have sent out pictures of a Leopard in the snow wearing a santa hat.

Or a pumpkin with leopard spots.

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post #253 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Why? Adobe CS3 doesn't depend on Leopard. Once you're in Photoshop or Illustrator you don't see the OS or care about it.

Maybe not, but Apple depends upon Adobe CS3 to trigger the pro sales that have been slow because the pros are waiting for both CS3 and Leopard.

Why?

It's the EXPENSE. Professionals (corporate/mulit machine graphics and layout houses) are waiting to upgrade when Leopard ships installed. It would not be smart to invest in new hardware then have to spend extra money and installation time for the new OS a few months later.

Offering free upgrades would entice these pros to buy as soon as CS3 is released.
post #254 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

Or they could have sent out pictures of a Leopard in the snow wearing a santa hat.

Is it spring in October in the southern hemisphere?

Too bad they waited until today to make this announcement.
They could have really blown everyone's mind if they made
this announcement on April 1.
post #255 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Or a pumpkin with leopard spots.

I thought that too, but it'd just look like someone took a gun to a pumpkin. I'm sure someone with serious Photoshop skills can put together a Leopard out in the snow with a santa hat on. What's one delay when you can have two? Steve will be to busy counting money made from the iPhone to bother with the pesky full-sized OS or Macs.
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post #256 of 505
Just want to point out that Apple didn’t say that Leopard will be released in October. “Anticipating launching the software in October” can also mean that it will be released in February 08.
post #257 of 505
I hate to say this... but I think Apple made a critical error in judgment, IMO. With all of Microsoft's problems with Vista, they had a very unique opportunity to finaly "nail" them! Now I am not so sure! I think they should have put the iPhone on the "back burner" and concentrated on Leopard - even if it meant delaying the iPhone 'till Christmas, esp if it meant that the 1st gen was going to be a 3G handset. IMO, they should NOT have previewed iPhone 'till it was ready to ship - now since it looks like, possibly, late June or even July for it's release!

PS - edit... I think the iPhone hurt Leopard and vise versa... They allocated their resources incorrectly and, apparently, were stretched too "thin"! I hope this does not hurt them in the long run!
post #258 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by igorsova View Post

Just want to point out that Apple didnt say that Leopard will be released in October. Anticipating launching the software in October can also mean that it will be released in February 08.

Thanks for pointing that out! My snow leopard idea still applies for February, thought the santa hat would be out of season. So perhaps just a leopard sitting out in the snow. \
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post #259 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

Thanks for pointing that out! My snow leopard idea still applies for February, thought the santa hat would be out of season. So perhaps just a leopard sitting out in the snow. \

Wouldnt Leopard be a great Xmas present?
post #260 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by OS X Guy View Post

I hate to say this... but I think Apple made a critical error in judgment, IMO. With all of Microsoft's problems with Vista, they had a very unique opportunity to really "nail" them! Now I am not so sure of things! I think they should have put the iPhone on the "back burner" and concentrated on Leopard - even if it meant delaying the iPhone 'till Christmas, esp if it meant the 1st gen was going to be a 3G handset. IMO, they should NOT have previewed the iPhone 'till it was ready to ship!

Steve can make to much money with the iPhone. He wont delay it. But they seem to be focusing far more on gadgets than they are on their OS or Macs. Fitting that they dropped the word Computer from their name. No need to remind people what they used to be interested in! I suppose that whole OS development thing can get boring after a while so they can mothball that and focus on the cool toys.
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post #261 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by igorsova View Post

Wouldn’t Leopard be a great Xmas present?

Sure it would be. I'd expect it to be properly packaged though. Hopefully someone will come up with the picture I described. I have no skills with Photoshop so I'm not going to attempt it.

There IS a snow leopard.
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post #262 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsbeme View Post

Maybe not, but Apple depends upon Adobe CS3 to trigger the pro sales that have been slow because the pros are waiting for both CS3 and Leopard.

Why?

It's the EXPENSE. Professionals (corporate/mulit machine graphics and layout houses) are waiting to upgrade when Leopard ships installed. It would not be smart to invest in new hardware then have to spend extra money and installation time for the new OS a few months later.

Offering free upgrades would entice these pros to buy as soon as CS3 is released.

Don't be silly. Most creative pros would rather have a stable OS than a brand new unproven OS. And $129 is really nothing when you're spending $4000 on a MacPro and $3000 on CS3 or so. They've got work to do. If they need new hardware, they'll buy it regardless of the OS.
post #263 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

One would hope. By giving the software engineers this extra time do you believe the likelihood of hitting 10.5.9 will be reduced considering that they have this time to get it all right the first time? Perhaps they'll only need to use so much as 10.5.2?

LOL.

Apple will go well beyond 10.5.2, but given the ample time to work on it, I would also doubt that we will see 10.5.9. Expect to see a 10.4.9.5...
post #264 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball View Post

LOL.

Apple will go well beyond 10.5.2, but given the ample time to work on it, I would also doubt that we will see 10.5.9. Expect to see a 10.4.9.5...

Now that's funny! I really do look forward to hearing about Apple's reception at NAB just a few days away. They'll have to explain how all the new pro software they are introducing works perfectly fine on Tiger and that there's no reason to worry about Leopard not being released until there's snow on the ground in the Northern Hemisphere, and not to worry about Mac updates because Ive is so winded from that CPU update in the Mac Pro to be bothered with actually giving us new faster products throughout. But hey, he DID get to talk to Steve on an iPhone in the last keynote.
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post #265 of 505
Quote:
Apple's reception at NAB just a few days away. They'll have to explain how all the new pro software they are introducing works perfectly fine on Tiger and that there's no reason to worry about Leopard

Yes it'll be interesting to see what Apple will do in respect with the pro apps.

Apple could show the new apps and say they will ship when Leopard is shipped. A lot of people and businesses are heavily invested in Apple's pro apps so its unlikely many will switch to something else simply because of a four month delay.

Its possible Apple could launch the new version of the pro apps sooner than Leopard, then offer the functionality that works with Leopard in a software update when Leopard is released.
post #266 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by webmail View Post

Heh, I still hold 100,000 shares. 10,000 of those were at about $14.00 while the other shares were around $60.00

Isn't great how anonymous forums let people lie about things like having 10 million dollars in stock?
post #267 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by disco View Post

So, I've been a member of AI for quite a long time. In the past 2 years or so I really haven't visited much, as my interest in rumors is slowly decreasing. I'm a professional grapic designer who sees a computer as just another tool, like a pencil or marker. My infatuation with the latest and greatest has waned, as I see a lot of it now as gimmickey and just another reason to get users to upgrade. Now, after all of these years of not really caring or having any inside information, I finally heard some news from a very reliable source. I don't know anything more than what I'll state below, so I won't be able to answer any more follow up questions, or quite frankly, have any more access to additional info. It was a one-time spilling of the beans by someone who should have kept their mouth shut I'm guessing. Choose to believe me or not, but as you can see from my posting history, I'm not much of a speculator these days. I'm posting this because for once, I actually know a little somthing. It's not ground-breaking, but it may shed a little light on the situation.

Here goes:

-The iPhone is indeed a huge drain on Apple right now. Engineering efforts are intense around the new product due to various reasons.

- The iPhone was originally was designed with a plastic LCD screen - it has been switched to glass at the last minute. I am not certain of the reason behind the switch, but engineering is struggling to implement the last-minute change.

-There are worries within engineering about the durability of the new glass screens.

-Projections for the phone are huge. Over 1 million units a month.

-The interface of the iPhone is really shaking up Leopard. Many of the new interface paradigms are being folded into the OS.

-Touch-everything. A massive rethinking about how people interact with hardware will be introduced.

-There is a huge amount of R&D regarding multi-touch. It's resulting in some amazing new interface opportunities.

That's all I really know as being factual. Some of it is rather obvious, but the impact that the phone is having on Apple is perhaps the most interesting nugget. If one were to speculate, it seems Apple is telling a half-truth about the Leopard delay. yes, the phone is a drain on Apple, but the delay is most-likely related to rolling new interface features into Leopard and developing the hardware to drive it. Needless to say, it will interesting to see what Apple unveils in October.

Wow, glass screens on a phone. That's a brilliant "reliable source" you've got. Did he also tell you that the next MBPro would be made of balsa wood to lower the weight?
post #268 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Wow, glass screens on a phone. That's a brilliant "reliable source" you've got. Did he also tell you that the next MBPro would be made of balsa wood to lower the weight?

What's so bizarre about a phone having a glass screen? Mine has - Sony Ericsson P910i - It's glass with a touch screen layer.
post #269 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Yes it'll be interesting to see what Apple will do in respect with the pro apps.

Apple could show the new apps and say they will ship when Leopard is shipped. A lot of people and businesses are heavily invested in Apple's pro apps so its unlikely many will switch to something else simply because of a four month delay.

Its possible Apple could launch the new version of the pro apps sooner than Leopard, then offer the functionality that works with Leopard in a software update when Leopard is released.

Don't hold your breath for pro apps. Expect similar "releases" as iPhone 4 months ago and ATv back in the fall. This is now apple's marketing scheme - more hype, earlier announcements, later releases. It didn't exactly work with ATv, we'll see how it goes with iPhone, Leopard, and then FCPro and Logic. It already feels like that initial hype for iPhone is waning a bit, though, so they'll have to crank up the advertising again in a couple of months...
post #270 of 505
I was awaiting Leopard to buy a Mac Book.

I can't until June -- Oct. I must purchase a Mac Book before Leopard. \

Seeking advice:

Do I wait for new Mac Books, or would these be delayed until Leopard?

Do I wait for Certificates for free Leopard upgrades? What are the chances of this and when?

Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
post #271 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post

Well said, H!

Do you get paid by the post?
post #272 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAYOLA View Post

1) Do I wait for new Mac Books, or would these be delayed until Leopard?

2) Do I wait for Certificates for free Leopard upgrades? What are the chances of this and when?

1) No one here can say.

2) No. Slim to none.
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post #273 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

Do you get paid by the post?

Fair point and question. I got a little carried away today by the panic posts on this thread. I'm suspending myself for 24 hours effective tomorrow morning. I'm also fining myself for excessive posting.
post #274 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Have you never been working on a project, saw the end was close at hand and then something came up that forced a major delay? I'm being general here, but In reference to my personal experience with software it's happened more than once. These Leopard builds are proof that things aren't moving as smoothly as they could.

Maybe, but my impression from the reports in the last three months is that the storm clouds were on the horizon. It's possible they were just in a state of denial about it. That and the fact that they admitted to siphoning off talent for another project, that had to have an impact on their breathing room.

Quote:
I still stand by the fact that Apple could have said nothing and merely given us an October release date at WWDC.

I forgot to mention, but I think that would have been better. Having to make a panic press release to refute rumors did them no good. A delay probably would have been clear to the rumor mills by the end of may if there weren't reports of the discs going to replication. I recall that Apple PR used to ignore or not comment on rumors, I don't know what happened here. It sure seems like it backfired.
post #275 of 505
Wow this is extremely disappointing. This has been the slowest year for me since I became an apple user. No crazy new machines, no new OS, no new ipod, no new screens. I guess my wallet is thanking me.
But I've already started visting my usual apple sites less and less. Apple is offically borning to me now.
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post #276 of 505
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Originally Posted by wilco View Post

Do you get paid by the post?

He doesn't, but I do.
post #277 of 505
tell me about it... there really isnt anything to mockup... what a shame
post #278 of 505
Holy comoly! What a ruckus, the news has been out for a few hours and there's already 275 comments! That's gotta be an AI record.

Seems like the MacOS X 10.5 is the new Longhorn... Nah, just kidding. I for my part can't wait to get my hands on the 10.4.10 update!!!
post #279 of 505
see below....
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post #280 of 505
I am disappointed, too, but mainly as a stockholder/apple advocate. But really, this idea of waiting to purchase a computer until Leopard is ready, or worrying about getting it for free, or really thinking you can't do without it, is obsession. What, really, do you need from Leopard to do the work you need to do with your computer. It can't be the secret features, because you don't even know what they are. It can't be Time Machine, because you're using your computer now without it. This obsession with Leopard has been fostered by Steve Jobs, and now it's backfiring a bit, but let's all take a deep breath. Even CS3 won't use the 64 bit capabilities of Leopard, and it's so new it's not even out yet. Leopard is part of a longterm strategy, so four months (not three) is not that big a deal when you think about those terms.
Just buy the computers now, and use the software you have - it's fine. And take a deep breath. Stockholders like me, just HOLD your breath - for a long time - and pretend it isn't happening, cause it will probably hurt for a while, especially if Apple's results in a week aren't stunning....

Anyone agree?
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