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Apple delays Leopard release until October - Page 9

post #321 of 505
I am a little disappointed that it's being delayed till October now, but do you really have any problems with the OS now? I do want to see some of the new features and how they actually work, but as of right now, with the new update, I don't think OS X has run any better then it is now. It does everything I want it to, and 99.9% of the time, it runs flawless. I think if Steve feels they need more time, then it's probably a good idea to delay it. A lot of people here have said that they would rather it be delayed then release a bug ridden OS that crashes, can't burn CDs, and a whole other slew of problems. Apple will take some damage by this, but it will probably be better in the long run. Steve and everyone there in upper management know what they're doing, they aren't a bunch of 18 year old chasing cheerleaders around with no pants on. They will do what is in the companies best interest, they want to get out the OS as fast as possible, WITHOUT any problems. Everyone just calm down, relax, and enjoy what you have now. Stop looking ahead and getting pissed about something that will come in time. Take life one day at a time... YEAH!! haha I'm done
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post #322 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Succinct. And a correct summation.

1 billion phone market.

250 million PC market.

30 million Mac market.

Guess which wins? iPhone.

Yeah but Apple *hopes* to sell 10 million iPhones in the first year. It's a big market but without more and cheaper versions of the iPhone it'll be a niche product just like the Mac.
post #323 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by richyfp View Post

Here's my summation of why Leopard's taking so long to develop. I know it doesn't really excuse a delay, but this is undoubtedly a massive update to the OS, certainly beyond what I had appreciated until a couple of weeks ago...

Nice in-depth explanation of Leopard's upcoming features. I must say that most of it well beyond my comprehension and I can't but wonder if you are privy to stuff that should be protected by an NDA.
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post #324 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel View Post

Market closes in 5 hrs. ... well 4.5 now

I think the point Jeff was trying to make was if there was going to be a big drop, it would have materialized from the opening bell. It could certainly wind up down more than the 1.4% it's down now, but I would doubt very much it'll be more than 3%.
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post #325 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Yeah but Apple *hopes* to sell 10 million iPhones in the first year. It's a big market but without more and cheaper versions of the iPhone it'll be a niche product just like the Mac.

And what of it? Marketshare doesn't matter when you have a firm hold of the most profitable market segment.
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post #326 of 505
We're going to have to face the future Apple Inc has a bigger picture set of priorities.

By putting the 'Mac' 2nd? Apple can grow marketshare indirectly. Buzz re: iPods, Apple TV and iPhone will have kickbacks...to the Mac line eventually. More than would by prioritizing leopard.

iPhone is a big bet for Apple and, ironically, the Mac platform. It is using some form of Leopard. So it is a great way of advertising the 'Mac' to non-Apple users. The more they get sucked into using Apple products like Apple TV, iPod, iPhone...sooner or later they will crack and get a Mac. Sooner or later, a tipping point will be reached where Macs will break 2 million plus sales a month.

If the iPod sold 100 million? I think the iPhone and its subsequent family will sell loads more in the long run. And that's a huge market for 'Leopard' to get into. The Halo effect from that? We can only guess.

The iPhone adds a much bigger long term bottom line to Apple's shareholders...and mindshare with consumers. Leopard on a mac shipping June on some bumped Macs wouldn't generate the same sort of Buzz for Apple amongst the general public.

It's ironic. But this is the way it has to be for the Mac to win. It's a long game. And I feel they've made the right choice.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #327 of 505
Quote:
Yeah but Apple *hopes* to sell 10 million iPhones in the first year. It's a big market but without more and cheaper versions of the iPhone it'll be a niche product just like the Mac.

...and that's just Mk I version of the iPhone...what about the rest of the iPhone line? Which is inevitable if you model it after the iPod progression.

Do you really think that this is 'it'? I remember the fuss about the solitary overpriced iPod when it first launched...and Apple have improved the Mac line and their OS beyond all recognition since it first shipped. I predict that by October we'll have a gorgeous new OS, a brilliant new iMac some stunning new latops on Penryn...and the iPhone will deservedly get the lions share of the publics imagination. It looks like something really special.



This is just the beginning.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #328 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And what of it?

Well I hope that iPhone doesn't take priority over the Mac ond OSX. That's what. It shouldn't as I point out it's potentially a niche product with much lower margins than Macs. Yes I hope it succeeds and I hope to get one.
post #329 of 505

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #330 of 505
The delay is an annoyance, its seems no one is interested that in 8 weeks a 'near final copy' of Leopard will be demoed at WWDC. We should finally get to see what all the *top secret* features are.

The secret features better be worth all of hype jobs has given them. I'm hoping it's not purely visual crap like aero and.....well I think thats it with vista, isn't it? Unfortunately if something isn't flashy the media wont be interested. It has to *pop* the way the iPhone did. So I believe we'll see something pretty innovative, a significant shift that has taken a crap load of time to implement.

I do believe the iPhone was a major drain on Apple resources, if the iPhone doesn't work perfectly out of the gate the general public is going to know about it. The Macworld announcement was news everywhere, imagine if the first reviews are average, just average. That will hurt them a lot. I think the battery will be an issue, but the fact is the entire thing has to work flawlessly, no crashes, no errors, no slowdowns. They are entering a very competitive space, creating a completely new product from the ground up, it must be 'Apple perfect' to justify the attention its getting.

Apple expect to sell 10million by the end of 08. So they expect to sell and average of 1.6 millions iPhones per quarter. How is this not significant? The iPhone will probably track with same amount of Macs sold each quarter.

The focus now should be on WWDC and the super duper features
post #331 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Well I hope that iPhone doesn't take priority over the Mac ond OSX. That's what. It shouldn't as I point out it's potentially a niche product with much lower margins than Macs. Yes I hope it succeeds and I hope to get one.

I think you fail to see that the embedded version of Mac OS X that is being used on the iPhone is the cornerstone of Apple's consumer electronics strategy.
So far Apple has released 2 devices with embedded OS X...
- Apple TV
- Airport Extreme
Later this year will get 2 more
- iPhone
- iPod
in 2008 I imagine we will see even more.

It isn't a niche product but rather just the tip of a giant iceberg.
post #332 of 505
Bummer! I had been waiting to buy my first mac ever since last December, but the only thing keeping me from buying it was that the next version of OS X was due in three months. If I knew about it at that time, I'd be posting this message from my iMac. Now the OS is delayed, I still dont own a Mac and the "just around the corner" wait starts over again. They are frustrating potential customers badly.
Now in my opinion what they should do is to start selling every machine with an upgrade coupon to Leopard as soon as it is released. That may sound very optimistic but thats what users were ought to be paying by now; the new version of OS X. If thats not possible, they should atleast give along a coupon by which we can purchase the next version after release for , lets say, 50 bucks, because thats the maximum extra amount anyone will pay for upgrading OS in less than six months.
And if that doesnot happen, we can all rest assured that Apple will have to face dire consequences in both market share and share market.
post #333 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by vale4606 View Post

The secret features better be worth all of hype jobs has given them.

What hype? Jobs mentioned there were additional features they weren't showing yet at last year's WWDC and since then Jobs and Apple have mentioned these secret features exactly........ 0 times to my knowledge.
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post #334 of 505
Anyone remember Tiger OS X 10.4.0? Almost everyone was belly aching about how buggy it was. "Why didn't they wait a few months and work out the kinks? If i'm gonna pay $120 bucks I want the bugs worked out. I don't want to pay for being a beta tester." Well let's hope the release in October is much smoother than Tiger's.
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post #335 of 505
im actually close to tears.... im just going to crawl into a hole until october...
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post #336 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Succinct. And a correct summation.

1 billion phone market.

250 million PC market.

30 million Mac market.

Guess which wins? iPhone.

$600 super smartphone market: not even close to 1 billion and probably even significantly less than the 30 million you quote for the Mac.
post #337 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

$600 super smartphone market: not even close to 1 billion and probably even significantly less than the 30 million you quote for the Mac.

yeh its more like 20million i think, not sure though
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post #338 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Damon View Post

Here's what the headlines have missed: this is Apple's second major software fsckup.

The first one was Aperture 1.0. Aperture's initial release was certainly not what people have come to expect from Apple. From most accounts, this program simply didn't work from the start as Apple intended. The only way Apple could fix it was to pull over help from the Final Cut programming team, get the bugs out, and then release as a 1.5. Sure, the next version of FC was delayed, but no one except video geeks noticed.

This time, Apple's software fsckup is more serious, and a bunch more people have noticed. Sure, Tiger's fine. I really didn't feel the need to upgrade in say, June. With Apple's system software, it's usually a good thing to wait for a couple point releases before upgrading. So, in that sense, this isn't a big deal. What worries me, are the underlying factors behind the delay more than anything else. Sometimes, asking for the impossible gives you the impossible.

The whole delay affair makes me think all is not right in the halls of Cupertino... the pressure cooker can only take so much heat before the steam tries to find a way out.

Sure. A mid-size application versus two Operating Systems with 3 versions. The embedded OS X and the Client/Server flagship OS.

There is no comparison.

If you want to start working on the Darwin XNU kernel and its BSD layers or try your hand at writing applications then I doubt you'll bitch about a 4 month lag time.
post #339 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

Don't be silly. It's three months not three years. Good grief, talk about a juvenile overreaction on these boards... oh wait, its AppleInsider!

So you think that if Vista had only been delayed by 3 months, Apple and all the Microsoft bashers would have stayed silent? Guess again. They would have bashed Microsoft anyway even if Vista was just 1 day late.
post #340 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

So far Apple has released 2 devices with embedded OS X...
{cut}
Later this year will get 2 more
{cut}
- iPod

We don't know this yet. It makes sense but it's not a sure thing that the next iPod will be running OS X.
post #341 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

If you want to start working on the Darwin XNU kernel and its BSD layers or try your hand at writing applications then I doubt you'll bitch about a 4 month lag time.

Bitching is when promised and confirmed dates suddenly pushed back from spring to autumn, this is what I call bitching from top level of Apple. And one more time I want to point out that Apple didn’t say that Leopard will be released in October. “Anticipating launching the software in October” can also mean that it will be released in February 08.
post #342 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder

What hype? Jobs mentioned there were additional features they weren't showing yet at last year's WWDC and since then Jobs and Apple have mentioned these secret features exactly........ 0 times to my knowledge.

Well, anything that comes out of the mouth of Steven Paul Jobs - even once - is a hype in and of itself.
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post #343 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbaynham View Post

yeh its more like 20million i think, not sure though

And how many of those 20 million have the cheapest phone they can get and never use any of the features? Most of the people I know have a cellphone and most don't use it for anything more than making a call, no data usage at all.

I know that Apple is doing its best to get into this market, but I also think that there are far more people out there who want the phone. The biggest group of people I know who want the iPhone is high schoolers. I'll buy one simply because I loath using my POS Nokia and the T-Mobile service.
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post #344 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

And how many of those 20 million have the cheapest phone they can get and never use any of the features? Most of the people I know have a cellphone and most don't use it for anything more than making a call, no data usage at all.

I know that Apple is doing its best to get into this market, but I also think that there are far more people out there who want the phone. The biggest group of people I know who want the iPhone is high schoolers. I'll buy one simply because I loath using my POS Nokia and the T-Mobile service.

i was talking about the mac os x side of things. sorry, should have been more clear
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post #345 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

And how many of those 20 million have the cheapest phone they can get and never use any of the features? Most of the people I know have a cellphone and most don't use it for anything more than making a call, no data usage at all.

I know that Apple is doing its best to get into this market, but I also think that there are far more people out there who want the phone. The biggest group of people I know who want the iPhone is high schoolers. I'll buy one simply because I loath using my POS Nokia and the T-Mobile service.

Last year 1 billion cell phones were sold world wide.
Of that 2% or 20 million were some type of smartphone.
Apple's goal is to capture 1% of the market or 10 million phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

Most of the people I know have a cellphone and most don't use it for anything more than making a call, no data usage at all.

What do you think the reason for this is?
Because people don't want to or because they can't figure out how to?
The market for a smartphone is actually much larger than most people think.
The reality is that most smartphones were design by geeks for geeks.
The iPhone is a smartphone my grandmother could use.
post #346 of 505
It sounds to me like Apple is having an internal corporate traffic jam of sorts. It appears that so much time and effort has gone into Leopard and iPhone that Leopard and AppleTV have ended up being delayed, iLife and iWork '07 may be passed over (at least in title), Mac minis have gone FORGOTTEN in the halls of Cupertino, and most of Apple's software designers haven't seen their own desks in several months because they've been hanging out with other divisions.

Steve Jobs at the end of each keynote usually thanks his employees and their families for their sacrifices to get stuff out, but I'm thinking he's going to need to foot the bill for an iPhone for each of them after this is all said and done. It sounds like they're working their asses off on Infinite Loop. Hell, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if the janitors are helping get the iPhone out.
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post #347 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by igorsova View Post

Bitching is when promised and confirmed dates suddenly pushed back from spring to autumn, this is what I call bitching from top level of Apple. And one more time I want to point out that Apple didnt say that Leopard will be released in October. Anticipating launching the software in October can also mean that it will be released in February 08.

Can also mean a delivery timeframe in September as well. It goes both ways. I just think you like to complain.
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post #348 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

The iPhone is a smartphone my grandmother could use.

I honestly hope the iPhone launches successfully and there are no major issues. I'll be buying one so we'll see when the time comes. I'll be the only one in my immediate family that will have one, but when the second gen iPhone comes out I'll upgrade and hand down the first gen to a relative so I help my family acquire the tech. I do the same with all of my Macs.

And here's a question that is not for this thread but doesn't deserve a new thread started for it. If I buy a new Mac Pro on the 16th and down the road there are better GPUs in them, how do I go about getting one and swapping it out? Does Apple offer them on their website? If so, I haven't seen them.

Now back to thread specific conversation. Here's a question for those who keep stats on Apple. Is Leopard the longest production of an OS by Apple from the time the previous cat was released, in this case Tiger, until the new cat is released? I just want to know if Leopard is actually taking longer than the prior cats to put together, and if so, how much longer? This may be an indicator of how bug-free Leopard will be.
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post #349 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

Here's a question for those who keep stats on Apple. Is Leopard the longest production of an OS by Apple from the time the previous cat was released, in this case Tiger, until the new cat is released? I just want to know if Leopard is actually taking longer than the prior cats to put together, and if so, how much longer? This may be an indicator of how bug-free Leopard will be.

Yes, but this is no indicator that it will have less bugs. In fact, as the complexity of OS X grows you can expect longer delays between versions--even Apple made this statement back in OS X's early days--and expect more bugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X#Versions

10.0 March 2001 (6 months)
10.1 September 2001 (11 months)
10.2 August 2002 (14 months)
10.3 October 2003 (18 months)
10.4 April 2005 (30 months, assuming an October 2007 release)
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post #350 of 505
Brian

If Apple can deliver a relatively bug free Leopard in October color me amazed. That feat will certainly require more work than the effort to get Tiger out of the door (which was admittedly rocky)

There's a disconnect between Mac users and Apple. OS X is more complex than any OS we Mac users have had access to. Prior to OS X we never had such huge changes and that's why Copeland died. It couldn't be changed as easily to encompass new modern features while preserving legacy support.

Now we have OS X which is a toddler at 6yrs old. If you look at the difference between 10.3 and 10.5 it's mind boggling what Apple has done.

Moved to Intel processors- Painless
Moved to 64-bit full software stacks- Maybe not so painless

The Top Secret features are coming and they'll be flashy to entice the "I want my OS to Entertain me" crowd but the stuff that is going to make a difference to those who need productivity will be further maturation of the OS.

Sync services that work
Systemwide Calendar data
Webkit becoming fully modern (AJAX and CSS3)
Quicktime overhauled
Applescript- don't call it a comeback

Like the iPhone Apple has to deliver a working OS X Leopard because people like you who want to use their expensive Mac to get their work done demand that the features work as described.

Apple has offered no SLA to consumers. They said spring 2007 for their shipdate but no contracts were signed.

I want them to launch both products "correctly" and I do think that giving themselves 4 more months will allow them to do that. And trust...we will be happy.
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post #351 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Brian

If Apple can deliver a relatively bug free Leopard in October color me amazed. That feat will certainly require more work than the effort to get Tiger out of the door (which was admittedly rocky)

There's a disconnect between Mac users and Apple. OS X is more complex than any OS we Mac users have had access to. Prior to OS X we never had such huge changes and that's why Copeland died. It couldn't be changed as easily to encompass new modern features while preserving legacy support.

Now we have OS X which is a toddler at 6yrs old. If you look at the difference between 10.3 and 10.5 it's mind boggling what Apple has done.

Moved to Intel processors- Painless
Moved to 64-bit full software stacks- Maybe not so painless

The Top Secret features are coming and they'll be flashy to entice the "I want my OS to Entertain me" crowd but the stuff that is going to make a difference to those who need productivity will be further maturation of the OS.

Sync services that work
Systemwide Calendar data
Webkit becoming fully modern (AJAX and CSS3)
Quicktime overhauled
Applescript- don't call it a comeback

Like the iPhone Apple has to deliver a working OS X Leopard because people like you who want to use their expensive Mac to get their work done demand that the features work as described.

Apple has offered no SLA to consumers. They said spring 2007 for their shipdate but no contracts were signed.

I want them to launch both products "correctly" and I do think that giving themselves 4 more months will allow them to do that. And trust...we will be happy.

All the work on Leopard has me wondering how many updates it'll have. Sometimes Apple adds new features during updates. Sometimes the updates are all stuff behind the scenes stomping out bugs. I know that so many of us want Finder completely rewritten and to hopefully not have the same problems it has now, nor a bunch of new ones.

I know they'll be working on Leopard for a long time, and they might even take a breather and not even worry about the next release of OS X for a year or so. If they keep refining Leopard well into 2008 and possibly well into 2009, we'll see that the updates might take a long time to download but will be more substantive than we've seen them be in the past.

I look forward to the iPhone and I look forward to Leopard. I'll be dropping plastic on them both as soon as I can get my hands on them. Now if only I could get Apple to drop a Blu-Ray recorder into the Mac Pro.

Is the consensus here that Apple will reveal these secret features at WWDC? I'll have to find a countdown widget just for it.
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post #352 of 505
Quote:
The iPhone is a smartphone my grandmother could use.

Well, at least he gets it.

And because of that, like the iPod, it will go on to sell many more per quarter than Apple will sell Macs. It may, just may drag the Mac along it's coat trails...

And Hmurchison too. Good post. It's perhaps the underlying technologies which augur well for future Mac applications and even OS updates. They're building an incredible platform for the future.

This is Apple's most complex OS to date. They're doing a great job when you think the 'mighty' Redmond machine with all it's multi-billion RND took several years over Vista and it arrived like a train wreck.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #353 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

So you think that if Vista had only been delayed by 3 months, Apple and all the Microsoft bashers would have stayed silent? Guess again. They would have bashed Microsoft anyway even if Vista was just 1 day late.

Yes, you are right. But three years was down right laughable! It was so late that it actually became a punch line... So, again, as every one has said, it's 3 months not 3 years.
post #354 of 505
I just hope Apple doesn't leave us with the same impression Vista did:

"That's it?"

I've got to be honest. It seems like Panther (10.3) was a much more significant update for me than Tiger (10.4) was. Sure, I use Spotlight and Dashboard every once and a while, but Safari RSS was the biggest deal for me...and that doesn't seem like it'd need an OS update. Panther, on the other hand brought so much to the table that I've found so useful.

Mac OS X just seems to be slowing down a lot. As Apple makes the OS even better over time, there's less big stuff to put into it.

With Leopard, Spaces and Time Machine might be pretty useful, but I'm hoping these "top secret" features bring more to the table. Otherwise I might be inclined to let out a hearty yawn.
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post #355 of 505
I've lost three hard drives in my OS X years and each one has been painful. I'll upgrade to Leopard just for Time Machine. If it happens again I'll be able to restore everything just the way it was. Backup is a great start for that but didn't return everything to the way it was.

I think Steve will have a hard sell on his hands when he demos Leopard. We've already seen the features that are public so if the ones that are secret really aren't impressive, he's going to look out to a crowd and it'll be silent rather than the applause he's used to. I just have a feeling that it's gonna be mostly under-the-hood stuff (which is great, but not something earth-shattering. \
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post #356 of 505
Wow Cosmonut that's crazy--I use Spotlight and Dashboard every 5 minutes. They're the biggest updates for me since maybe 10.2. I used RSS for a minute once and decided it didn't have a purpose for me. Funny how different people use such different parts of OS X.

Lemmon Bon Bon good to see you again, good observations. I am hoping AAPL tanks. I'm STILL kicking myself for not buying a few thousand of AAPL when it was at 30 last summer. If it tanks even in to the upper 70s I'll be reaching for that Scottrade that's been on stand-by since, well, last year. Anyone think it'll get hurt that much? I guess we'll see.

In the meantime, 10.4 works for me. I'm happily waiting to buy. I'm so getting it the day it comes out! I hope I get a shirt too.
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post #357 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmoNut View Post

Mac OS X just seems to be slowing down a lot. As Apple makes the OS even better over time, there's less big stuff to put into it.

With Leopard, Spaces and Time Machine might be pretty useful, but I'm hoping these "top secret" features bring more to the table. Otherwise I might be inclined to let out a hearty yawn.

Other than "Fix the Fcking Finder" I haven't heard many people articulate what exactly they want from an OS. It seems there is this large contingent of people who compute for Entertainment. They are more concerned with flash and sizzle. They care more about chatting programs and 3D warp UI features (Beryl anyone?). There's nothing wrong with that.

However the flipside is many of us have embedded the computer into more of our daily life for management. It needs to handle our scheduling and task list with ease. It needs to offer efficient communication and display of information. The requirements of these two groups are vastly different. Note that Apple plays up the "superimpose yourself in Tahiti in iChat Theatre" angle to wow the first group but also satiates the second group by showing the collaborative features of iChat Theatre.

So the real question to ask Mac users is "what type computing user are you? Are you in it now for the Entertainment or the Productivity?" That will determine the efficacy of Leopard thusfar for your needs. Apple is HEAVY into the productivity right now and a bit light on the Entertainment with Leopard.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

I've lost three hard drives in my OS X years and each one has been painful. I'll upgrade to Leopard just for Time Machine. If it happens again I'll be able to restore everything just the way it was. Backup is a great start for that but didn't return everything to the way it was.

I think Steve will have a hard sell on his hands when he demos Leopard. We've already seen the features that are public so if the ones that are secret really aren't impressive, he's going to look out to a crowd and it'll be silent rather than the applause he's used to. I just have a feeling that it's gonna be mostly under-the-hood stuff (which is great, but not something earth-shattering. \

It only takes losing valuable data once before you respect the benefits of an easy backup program. The apathy at which some people respond to Time Machine is amazing. Hell ..it's your data. I don't care if you keep it or lose it really. I know "my" data is going to be protected.

At this time I have my doubts that there are features that can be considered Earth Shattering. I think Core Animation will improve the fluidity of applications but that's not ES to me. Leopard is going to be fluid and that's a nice feature to me. Tiger isn't bad but there still is lag when you do some things. Leopard should be smooth as silk when rendering many windows.
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post #358 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Nice in-depth explanation of Leopard's upcoming features. I must say that most of it well beyond my comprehension and I can't but wonder if you are privy to stuff that should be protected by an NDA.

All of the stuff mentioned is very generic and kind of old news. Also a lot of the stuff is not very hard to implement (especially with a bunch of coding monkeys).
I think Apple may have been a bit too aggressive on the initial timeline.

Alexei
post #359 of 505
I counted last night after I saw the announcement. There were 17 or 18 jobs related to the iPhone on Apple's site. That's a lot of man power that they don't have. And I'm sure that if they could find quality people, they would have, and it sucks for us that the kind of people who are smart enough to either build an operating system for a computer or (at this late of a stage) stabilize a phone OS.

Brooke's Law, which says that "Adding people to a late project make it even later", is also fully in effect now here.

On a more interesting note, since iPhone OS = Leopard Lite...

iPhone -> Robson -> Instant-On Mac

There are to many parallels in the iPhone OS and Leopard for Leopard not to benefit from iPhone development. Why did they take people from Leopard? Because they already knew about the iPhone OS.
post #360 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by skatman View Post

All of the stuff mentioned is very generic and kind of old news. Also a lot of the stuff is not very hard to implement (especially with a bunch of coding monkeys).
I think Apple may have been a bit too aggressive on the initial timeline.

Alexei

Alexei I agree. Trying to launch two major projects so close was foolish. Apple learned something here that is going to be very valuable.

I'm willing to bet money that the morale within OS X engineering teams just skyrocked. Being behind generates a lot of stress. Now they can take a breather and fix the issues knowing the "June ship date" Guillotine isn't going to chop their heads off.

I can't say that I'm not surprised about the petulant behavior of some "fans". There are many people who love to use such events to become the persecutor. They got their justification to launch invective at Apple. Pretty sad and pathetic.

I hope the Apple Engineers know that their efforts are appreciated. "Some" of us know that Leopard is a phenomenal update, and phenomenons take time.
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