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Virginia Tech killing: more than 30 dead - Page 6

post #201 of 524
4/17/07 at 8:40pm
double...
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post #202 of 524
4/17/07 at 8:44pm
Where Were the Men? - Nathanael Blake - Humanevents.com

"Something is clearly wrong with the men in our culture. Among the first rules of manliness are fighting bad guys and protecting others: in a word, courage. And not a one of the healthy young fellows in the classrooms seems to have done that."


Why isn't college grad Nathanael Blake in Iraq?
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post #203 of 524
4/17/07 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Where Were the Men? - Nathaniel Blake, Think Progress

"Something is clearly wrong with the men in our culture. Among the first rules of manliness are fighting bad guys and protecting others: in a word, courage. And not a one of the healthy young fellows in the classrooms seems to have done that."

Derbyshire and Blake are typical of chickenhawks. Brave in print and policy with other people's lives. Quick to condemn.

I'm sure there was bravery as well as confusion that day.

Vinea
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post #204 of 524
4/17/07 at 9:34pm
Incidentally, your right to bear arms protects you from an out of control government. Something the founders of this country were wise enough to foresee.

Despite my position on this issue, like most of you, I am very sad for the students at VT today.

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post #205 of 524
4/17/07 at 10:05pm
You MUST look at the gun control issue from a statistical perspective.

Although those who are trained in responsible use of firearms for self-defence might have a better survival chance if they are allowed to own a gun, the GENERAL POPULATION will have a much higher death rate.

You who are fighting for gun rights are doing so at the expense of the rest of the public.

The more guns there are out there, the more innocent people will die. Period.

And please please PLEASE begin to take just 10 of your IQ points to understand the CONTEXT of the Second Amendment, and why in that context (defense against an oppressive government) it is obsolete, and should be repealed.
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post #206 of 524
4/17/07 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Incidentally, your right to bear arms protects you from an out of control government. Something the founders of this country were wise enough to foresee.

Despite my position on this issue, like most of you, I am very sad for the students at VT today.

There are far more effective measures in this country to protect against that than a gun owned by a citizen (which wouldn't do anything and obviously isn't the reason people own and allowed to own guns today anyways)


48 Hours just had a good quote... Guns have a single purpose, to kill. They do one thing, kill.
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post #207 of 524
4/17/07 at 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Good read on CNN about gun control and polticians and why, sadly, this won't changed things.

Pro Gunners vote the issue
Anti Gunners don't vote the issue

Who is more fanatic? (loaded question)

You mean Gun control unlikely to get on agenda despite shootings?

Unfortunately, sad but true! I'd guess you all would call the USA a WESTERN democracy!

Crime in the United States

List of countries by homicide rate
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post #208 of 524
4/17/07 at 10:31pm
No guns = no problems.
Seems pretty obvious.

As far as your "right to bear arms", I personally don't give a $hit. Stick your f-n guns in your f-n a$$e$, and pull your f-n triggers. Second amendment was making sense centuries ago. Nowadays your personal guns are no help against government. Our government will vaporize anything and anyone standing on the way of powerful lobbies with a click of a button. So, quit this BS, and EVOLVE, you f-n Neanderthals!

Wants to hunt or fish, get Nintendo WII.




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post #209 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100mph View Post


As far as your "right to bear arms", I personally don't give a $hit. Stick your f-n guns in your f-n a$$e$, and pull your f-n triggers. So, quit this BS, and EVOLVE, you f-n Neanderthals!

Uh oh. Bad words. He must be serious.

I hope 911 helps you in time if you are ever attacked. I doubt it.
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post #210 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The more guns there are out there, the more innocent people will die. Period.

The fewer guns that are out there in the hands of law abiding victims, the more innocent people will die.

Do all of you think that criminals are going to give up their guns because "you say so"? Get a GRIP.
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post #211 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:30pm
And furthermore 100mph, I'm sorry that you don't like the Bill of Rights, or at least part of it. Tough toenails. It is there, it is the law of the land. It is a limit on government intrusion into our lives, just like the other 9 amendments. I will resist, as should you, the taking of ANY of our enumerated rights... would you make this argument for the first amendment just because it can be used improperly?

These rights are not granted by government, they are inherent and God given. You, nor anyone else, has the right to take what you did not give in the first place. That, my friend, is tyranny.
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post #212 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

These rights are not granted by government, they are inherent and God given.



That's a little much--

God given right to own a gun.
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post #213 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Uh oh. Bad words. He must be serious.

I hope 911 helps you in time if you are ever attacked. I doubt it.


What is your big fear in life? I mean, you sound somewhat paranoid. When I was in the States, I was close friends with a law enforcement officer; it was his job to deal with situations every day that you and I probably can't even dream of. His biggest fear was getting shot by some armed citizen trying to take the law into his own hands, NOT by the criminal he was chasing.

 

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post #214 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post



That's a little much--

God given right to own a gun.


Didn't you know that God is a proud member of the NRA? Why, he's the biggest shooter of 'em all! Jesus wasn't which is why he had a little more difficulty on Earth.





First it was to protect us from the gov't; now it was a right bequeathed unto us by God.

Someone is really reaching now.

 

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post #215 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

What is your big fear in life? I mean, you sound somewhat paranoid. When I was in the States, I was close friends with a law enforcement officer; it was his job to deal with situations every day that you and I probably can't even dream of. His biggest fear was getting shot by some armed citizen trying to take the law into his own hands, NOT by the criminal he was chasing.

If you were paying attention, I mentioned many posts ago that MY GUN saved MY LIFE and that of MY FAMILY at the hands of a violent, drug-addicted felon on parole. That piece of inanimate metal that all of you gleefully want to take away from me was the difference between LIFE and DEATH. THAT is something that changes your perspective, my friend. I have a concealed carry license in Texas and exercised my right to carry... and it STOPPED A CRIME. As such, I will never surrender my right and will fight as hard as I can so that others are not denied the same right which made sure my family remained intact.

I understand that LEOs have issues with some things. Most of them are split right down the middle on the issue of concealed firearms. I spend more time at the range than most of my local cops, beat them handily in scoring, and have even trained a few personally. Getting a concealed handgun license requires hours of training, testing, and legal education to obtain. If you get caught carrying without a license in Texas, it is already a felony.
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post #216 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

You, nor anyone else, has the right to take what you did not give in the first place. That, my friend, is tyranny.


NEITHER you nor anyone else...

Otherwise I could pull a big one and read a new meaning into your message (like people have done to many messages on these boards):

You, 100mph, not anyone else, have the right to take what you did not give in the first place.


---

Cheers, 100mph, and have a nice day!

 

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post #217 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

The fewer guns that are out there in the hands of law abiding victims, the more innocent people will die.

Strange - right-wingers use this argument for guns all the time but deny the exact same argument as pertaining to nuclear proliferation.

Their mindset really is - as Mr Spock would say - 'fascinating'.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #218 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:54pm
You wail about Bush taking rights from people, and now you want to take rights (self defense) from others. Shoe on the other foot now, eh?

May you all be wiretapped, jailed without cause, silenced politically and not allowed a trial. Wow, this killing off the Bill of Rights is FUN!

You see, this is why I can't stand most of your liberal and neocon crap around here. Not many of you care about our freedoms, just the ones you cherry-pick that make your world view seem more valid. Bush guts the BoR, and you scream. Now you want to repeal an entire Amendment.


What stunning hypocrisy.

The only difference between the Dems and Republicans is which rights they want to limit, and which they want to protect. Hows about we all work together, and protect EVERYONE's rights?
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post #219 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

NEITHER you nor anyone else...

Otherwise I could pull a big one and read a new meaning into your message (like people have done to many messages on these boards):

You, 100mph, not anyone else, have the right to take what you did not give in the first place.


---

Cheers, 100mph, and have a nice day!

... you're grasping.
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post #220 of 524
4/17/07 at 11:59pm
Wow. A true leader in the making.

Amendments are just that: changes to an original. If the original needed changing, why can the changes not warrant changing?

 

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post #221 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Wow. A true leader in the making.

Amendments are just that: changes to an original. If the original needed chaning, whhy can the changes not warrant changing?

I agree. Let's go ahead and take care of that pesky freedom of the press and right to assemble as well. And that privacy thing too- we need traveling papers and door to door searches for banned items. Finally we can end abortion because there will be no privacy rights. And we can also save millions in courts by getting rid of trials and the judicial process.

Get right on that. I'll await your report.

"no, but...."
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post #222 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:05am
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Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

I agree. Let's go ahead and take care of that pesky freedom of the press and right to assemble as well. And that privacy thing too- we need traveling papers and door to door searches for banned items. Finally we can end abortion because there will be no privacy rights. And we can also save millions in courts by getting rid of trials and the judicial process...

What are you, the KING of Strawmen?
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post #223 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:06am
He beat me to it!

 

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post #224 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

What are you, the KING of Strawmen?
\

Well, then, where does it end once begun? Oh, just when the rights YOU don't like are gone? Who is to say that the rest can't be dealt with too?

Get real here.

I've nailed you on a blatant hypocrisy. Sorry about that.
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post #225 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:15am
Riiiiiiight.

Because - there are just as much discussions and debates and controversies over "that pesky freedom of the press and right to assemble as well. And that privacy thing too..." as there is over handgun control!!

Puh-LEEEEEEZE!

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post #226 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:19am
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Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

Riiiiiiight.

Because - there are just as much discussions and debates and controversies over "that pesky freedom of the press and right to assemble as well. And that privacy thing too..." as there is over handgun control!!

Puh-LEEEEEEZE!


So I guess you are against the First Amendment as well then?
Or do you come down on the side of preservation of rights, as I do?

If you support Amendment One, but not Amendment Two, you are cherry picking what you want for yourself and to hell with everyone else. That's my point for you.
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post #227 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:28am
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Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

Puh-LEEEEEEZE!


I support preserving all of our rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. You think they are negotiable. That's a simple, distinct difference. I side with absolute rights, you side with negotiating rights.
It's cool...
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post #228 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:31am
Good citizenship comes from knowing about the laws of your country. The Constitution was designed as a great document, but it was also realized that it wasn't perfect, thus the allowance for amendments to it when deemed truly necessary. This is what allowed for the provision which you hold so dear, and allows the Constitution to evolve over time to meet the true needs of the nation.

Ever read the 18th and 21st amendments?

Read up on the Constitution before blasting away in its defence. It is a very god document, one that is designed to evolve, but also one that is not without its faults.

 

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post #229 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

If you ban guns, more people will be victimized. There will be no way to resist criminals. Why is this so hard for you to see?

I would love to see evidence of just how many victims have been saved by either owning a gun or someone else that did that was not in law enforcement in a year.

Especially in comparison to number of victims injured or killed by guns purchased from stores in the same year.

Resist criminals.
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post #230 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Good citizenship comes from knowing about the laws of your country. The Constitution was designed as a great document, but it was also realized that it wasn't perfect, thus the allowance for amendments to it when deemed truly necessary. This is what allowed for the provision which you hold so dear, and allows the Constitution to evolve over time to meet the true needs of the nation.

Ever read the 18th and 21st amendments?

Read up on the Constitution before blasting away in its defence. It is a very god document, one that is designed to evolve, but also one that is not without its faults.

I hold the Bill of Rights sacred. They are explicit limitations on a government that we have let go far beyond all reason in scope and power. The Constitution is the finest governing document ever written. It's too bad that it has been perverted so. The federal government is out of control, and all of our rights, money, freedoms, and livelihoods are at risk because of it. Over decades, they have bastardized the intent of the framers. I'm an originalist, pure and simple. We have an honest disagreement on that part. That's OK.
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post #231 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:38am
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Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Resist criminals.

Ever been a victim of violent crime?
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post #232 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:40am
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Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Where Were the Men? - Nathanael Blake - Humanevents.com

"Something is clearly wrong with the men in our culture. Among the first rules of manliness are fighting bad guys and protecting others: in a word, courage. And not a one of the healthy young fellows in the classrooms seems to have done that."


Why isn't college grad Nathanael Blake in Iraq?

You're insane for even posting this. Now the victims are at fault for not fighting back!? My god you have lost all credibility and respect I could have ever had for you. The last thing anyone should ever do is blame those poor kids.
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post #233 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:50am
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Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Ever been a victim?

I have. Right now as a matter of fact. A victim of repetitive, mindless NRA talking points.
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post #234 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch View Post

I have. Right now as a matter of fact. A victim of repetitive, mindless NRA talking points.

That's funny for you. It's deadly serious to me, as I was between my wife, children, and an armed criminal. I would say that I hope that happens to you so that you can see my point, but...

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post #235 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

That's funny for you. It's deadly serious to me, as I was between my wife, children, and an armed criminal. I would say that I hope that happens to you so that you can see my point, but...

So tell us...what was the criminal armed with?
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post #236 of 524
4/18/07 at 12:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch View Post

So tell us...what was the criminal armed with?

A gun that all of your gun control would not have taken from him. He was a three time loser, and could give a care about what silly gun law he was breaking during the commission of a violent felony. He also had two knives on him.

PS- the gun was smuggled in from Mexico. It did not match any import lists from ATF.
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post #237 of 524
4/18/07 at 1:04am
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Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

A gun that all of your gun control would not have taken from him.

So he had a gun and you had a gun. I guess your gun was bigger than his?
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post #238 of 524
4/18/07 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch View Post

So he had a gun and you had a gun. I guess your gun was bigger than his?

Nope. I was better trained and knew how to handle the situation. Absent my gun in my hands, all of us could have been kidnapped, killed, ransomed, or whatever.

We're not going to agree on this. You don't think I have the right. I know I do, and have used it.
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post #239 of 524
4/18/07 at 1:18am
Maybe these guys should go get trained by the NRA. The irony. So much for gun training
Quote:
Two Secret Service officers injured at White House

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two Secret Service officers were injured on Tuesday after a gun held by another Secret Service officer accidentally fired inside the White House gate, according to a spokesman, Darrin Blackford.

Their injuries are non-life threatening, the spokesman said.

One officer suffered a shrapnel wound to the face, and the other was wounded in the leg.

They were taken to George Washington Hospital.

At the time, President George W. Bush was on a trip to Blacksburg, Virginia, to attend a ceremony at Virginia Tech university following Monday's shooting rampage.

"It appears that at approximately 2:10 p.m. (1810 GMT) there was an accidental discharge of a service issued weapon, which occurred inside the Southwest Gate at a security post near the White House," Blackford said.
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post #240 of 524
4/18/07 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Nope. I was better trained and knew how to handle the situation. Absent my gun in my hands, all of us could have been kidnapped, killed, ransomed, or whatever.

Quote:
I would say that I hope that happens to you so that you can see my point, but...

Nice one. I would say that I don't think you're making this crap up to, in some bizarre way, try to convince others who disagree with you, but....
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