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Safari on iPhone - typing in forms?

post #1 of 35
5/14/07 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 
I haven't seen this brought up elsewhere on the forum...

How are we going to type text into form fields on web pages using iPhone's "mini-Safari"? All we've seen Steve do so far is type into the address bar and search bar. Those would bring up the half-screen keyboard on the bottom.

But what about typing in, for instance, search fields? Do you think the keyboard will pop up when you click in a text field? Or will it be enabled some other way?

Also, do you think it will be possible to upload files from iPhone? If I take a picture with my iPhone and I go to Flickr.com, will I be able to hit "Upload" and browse over to /Pictures on iPhone? What if I saved a file from a webpage? I guess the bigger question is, what does iPhone's "Home folder" look like?

I know we'll lose a lot of browser features as a consequence of the size, but these sound crucial to me... Ideas?
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post #2 of 35
5/14/07 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

I know we'll lose a lot of browser features as a consequence of the size,.....

Why do you say that? I didn't get that impression from the keynote. As a matter of fact, I thought that the fact that you WON'T have a "mini" browser (rather, a full functioning one) is one of the selling points.
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post #3 of 35
5/14/07 at 12:57pm
Thread Starter 
It's a "mini" browser any way you spin it; its HTML-rendering engine might be WebKit, but it's not going to have all the functionality of Safari. I think that much is obvious. We don't yet know if Flash will be supported. How about embedded QuickTime, a download manager, History, RSS, WebClips? I'm not saying it will be a bad browser for lacking these, but it obviously won't have EVERY feature of "desktop Safari".

In any case, I was bringing up features it pretty much HAS to have and asking, what is your idea for the implementation of those?
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post #4 of 35
5/14/07 at 1:09pm
I have no idea because I always thought that the iPhone would have a fully functional web browser.

I have to now go back and review the keynote again because I thought Jobs specifically made a point of this, and now I'm curious as to where *I* got that idea. But what is giving you the idea that it won't be full blown Safari? Is it because no other phone does this?

From the iPhone web page...
Quote:
iPhone features a rich HTML email client and Safari the most advanced web browser ever on a portable device which automatically syncs bookmarks from your PC or Mac. Safari also includes built-in Google and Yahoo! search. iPhone is fully multi-tasking, so you can read a web page while downloading your email in the background over Wi-Fi or EDGE.
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post #5 of 35
5/14/07 at 1:26pm
Thread Starter 
Think about it. It's a browser without a toolbar, menu bar, or status bar, running in a window about 320 x 380px. You don't have a keyboard or mouse to use with it. I'm pretty sure it won't have all the features we're used to in Safari, but that's not the point anyway - my point is, what WILL the features it WILL have look like?

What if I click a drop-down menu on a web page? How will that work? How will we scroll that? How easy is it going to be to fill out a form? That's what I was asking.
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post #6 of 35
5/14/07 at 1:43pm
I just reviewed the keynote. At 1:02:00 he says "We have Safari running on the iPhone". And he talks about it being a "fully functioning" web browser and "not a WAP browser". Also, the keynote clearly shows a tool bar with URL field, reload and stop icon at the top and forward, back, bookmarks, new page icons on the bottom.

So to answer your question, I would expect to fill out a form on the iPhone Safari just as you fill out a form on the Mac Safari. Zooming in, if you have to.
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post #7 of 35
5/14/07 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

Think about it. It's a browser without a toolbar, menu bar, or status bar, running in a window about 320 x 380px. You don't have a keyboard or mouse to use with it. I'm pretty sure it won't have all the features we're used to in Safari, but that's not the point anyway - my point is, what WILL the features it WILL have look like?

What if I click a drop-down menu on a web page? How will that work? How will we scroll that? How easy is it going to be to fill out a form? That's what I was asking.

Well, how did Steve type in his search for the Starbucks in Google Maps?... or was it already marked?

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post #8 of 35
5/14/07 at 1:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

So to answer your question, I would expect to fill out a form on the iPhone Safari just as you fill out a form on the Mac Safari. Zooming in, if you have to.

You mean I'll type on my Apple keyboard? Jeez, why is it so hard to understand what I'm saying. I'm guessing the half-screen keyboard will pop up when you click on a form field, but we haven't seen this, and it raises a number of questions.
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post #9 of 35
5/14/07 at 1:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Well, how did Steve type in his search for the Starbucks in Google Maps?... or was it already marked?

Google Maps has its own search bar at the top. We've seen Steve type in that for the address and search, but we haven't seen him, for instance, type in his zip code at Fandango.com.
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post #10 of 35
5/14/07 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

You mean I'll type on my Apple keyboard? Jeez, why is it so hard to understand what I'm saying. I'm guessing the half-screen keyboard will pop up when you click on a form field, but we haven't seen this, and it raises a number of questions.

I understand what you're saying, but it looks like you just answered your own question. Yes, I would imagine that if you "touched" inside a text form, a keyboard will pop up. If you "touch" a drop down box, it will drop down. And so on..... do you understand what I mean?

There will be some changes for the fact that you have no real keyboard or mouse, but otherwise it will be like Safari on the desktop.
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post #11 of 35
5/14/07 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

There will be some changes for the fact that you have no real keyboard or mouse, but otherwise it will be like Safari on the desktop.

Well that's exactly what I said, and that's exactly what I thought I'd make this thread about - how do you think they'll implement the features that we haven't yet seen, and will obviously be included? But you keep arguing about whether it's "really" Safari or it's not. That's beside the point.

Some more things to think about:

How easy is it going to be to highlight text? Is there any sort of clipboard on iPhone? How would you mail a link to a page?

Think about the things you do in your browser on a daily basis and try to guess which ones will be possible and how in iPhone. That is all!
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post #12 of 35
5/14/07 at 3:52pm
Nevenmrgan, you seem to ask questions that we can't actually answer, only guess at, but then you assume Safari will be a 'lite' version, when we know it is a full desktop class web browser - Safari!
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post #13 of 35
5/14/07 at 3:56pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, forget it. God forbid someone should ask for speculation on this forum. And yeah, it's going to be "full" Safari, complete with Java, Flash, embedded video, and RSS. And it's not at all interesting how they'll implement features we take for granted on full-size computers.
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post #14 of 35
5/14/07 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

Ok, forget it. God forbid someone should ask for speculation on this forum. ...

By their very nature, any answer you get to your question is speculation. The problem, it seems, is that you are upset at the speculative answers which disagree with your preconceived notions.
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post #15 of 35
5/14/07 at 5:50pm
Interesting questions. My guess is that for the most part it'll work like Safari, just require more user input to zoom in to make sure things like pull-down menus and the like are readable -- and of course more scrolling.

It seems extremely likely you'll be able to pull up the keyboard at any time as well to fill out form fields and the like as well.

You can be sure Quicktime and Javascript will be there. Apple has said Java will not. Flash I believe it still undecided. Probably not at launch, though maybe it'll be folded in later.

One thing I can guarantee: the worst thing, hands down, about browsing the web using a 1G iPhone will be EDGE. It's no coincidence Apple has demo'd browsing on the iPhone using WiFi only (and even that didn't look all that speedy).

Quote:
How easy is it going to be to highlight text? Is there any sort of clipboard on iPhone? How would you mail a link to a page?

Also good questions. There's just no way Apple is going to nail everything on the first rev, so it's reassuring to know they intend to update the software on regular basis for free, just like OS X point upgrades (though hopefully with more features).
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post #16 of 35
5/15/07 at 12:00am
peace
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post #17 of 35
5/15/07 at 12:38am
As I understand it, full browser is just an marketing term for a browser that can read xhtml pages, not only WAP or XHTML MP, pages. Browsing experience is propably going to be quite close what it is with other new mobile phones. E.g. Nokia Nxx series. Not having keyboard is presenting some limitations, but naturally they can be be circumvented with virtual keyboard. It's kind of stupid to assume that iPhone will have only a slightly modified version of desktop Safari, because even if memory and prosessing power were no problems, the pure physical limitations will make the browsing experience quite different. New nokia phones, render WEB pages guite nicely, using webkit, but no way does the experience equal desktop browsing.
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post #18 of 35
5/15/07 at 4:13pm
Thread Starter 
So let's try rescuing this thread...

What will we see when we click "Browse" to upload a file on iPhone? I can think of a few possibilities:

1. Nothing - no browsing for files (unlikely)
2. The Home folder, complete with Pictures, Documents, Movies, etc. (unlikely)
3. A "Media Browser", like in iLife/iWork apps, showing the pictures, notes, and other files.
4. Something completely unexpected

I guess the question could be phrased as, what does iPhone's Finder look like?
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post #19 of 35
5/15/07 at 4:46pm
Wow.. If you really think about it, there are a million unanswered questions relating to the iPhone in many ways and forms. Lots of good questions in this thread, I've never really thought this in depth about it. There seems to be a lot of people gung-ho about purchasing an iPhone ASAP and plunking town a heck of a lot of money not only for the device, but for the plan as well. I'd be lying to say that I'm not, but usually when I make purchases this big, I like to know the product inside and out, maybe even test it a little bit.

I guess that little rant brings me to my question, how many of you who have decided to purchase an iPhone will wait to demo a unit, read more about how things are done (how a clipboard works; ctrl+v? uploading files, filling out forms, etc etc...), read reviews and see how people really deal with it in the real world, or just pop into an Apple / AT&T store on launch day and no questions asked, fork over your credit card? Is what you've heard from in the January Keynote and on Apple's website enough for you to purchase right away?
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post #20 of 35
5/15/07 at 6:12pm
Thread Starter 
My thinking is that Apple has thought of everything I've thought of (and more) and if we disagree, it will be on minor features. Or at least I hope so. We'll see - my hope is enough to make me buy one on the first day it's available.
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post #21 of 35
5/15/07 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

So let's try rescuing this thread...
I guess the question could be phrased as, what does iPhone's Finder look like?

I think the answer to this will be pretty simple. There is no Finder. You access your data via iPhone's apps -- that's it.

It's not a little Mac, after all. (Or not yet. ) It's a very savvy iPod / phone.

I will be very interested to see just how Apple implements text selection and cutting and pasting (assuming it can be done at all) without traditional menus or keyboard commands.... and via multi-touch. It'll be fascinating to see how they do it.
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post #22 of 35
5/15/07 at 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

I understand what you're saying, but it looks like you just answered your own question. Yes, I would imagine that if you "touched" inside a text form, a keyboard will pop up. If you "touch" a drop down box, it will drop down. And so on..... do you understand what I mean?

There will be some changes for the fact that you have no real keyboard or mouse, but otherwise it will be like Safari on the desktop.

the problem with that is: we've seen safari used mostly in landscape mode on the iphone and the keyboard is used in portrait mode. we don't yet know if the keyboard even works in landscape. seems like it would have to since obviously we'll need to type SOMETHING while in landscape mode at some point. it would be poor form if you had to turn the phone 90 degrees just to type stuff in, although i guess it's certainly possible that this is the case.
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post #23 of 35
5/16/07 at 3:47am
for those of you who are having trouble imagining how this whole "magic soft keyboard" thing is gonna work, just take a look at how windows mobile smartphones do it now. You click a box, the keyboard pops out. You put it in landscape and a keyboard still pops out, but it takes up more screen real estate in comparison to portrait. While those keyboards are made to be used with a stylus, it should provide more than enough insight to how the basic functions of iphone writing will work, considering you can use those keyboards with your fingers as well (though not as well as the iphone seems it will let you.) People, granted the iphone is OSX, but let not forget that the basics between windows and OSX are the same, apple just seems to feel nicer doing the same things. XP->OSX, WM->iphone(OSX). They're not reinventing the format, just polishing it up.

Also, if you ask a speculative question, and you get speculative answers, those answers are just as good as the question asked. Especially in this case where EVERYONE is going off information garnered months ago. Chill out and try to have a nice "discusssion" yo...
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post #24 of 35
5/16/07 at 5:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by admactanium View Post

the problem with that is: we've seen safari used mostly in landscape mode on the iphone and the keyboard is used in portrait mode. we don't yet know if the keyboard even works in landscape. seems like it would have to since obviously we'll need to type SOMETHING while in landscape mode at some point. it would be poor form if you had to turn the phone 90 degrees just to type stuff in, although i guess it's certainly possible that this is the case.

Isn't it nice when you can answer your own questions.
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post #25 of 35
5/16/07 at 5:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post

I think the answer to this will be pretty simple. There is no Finder. You access your data via iPhone's apps -- that's it.

It's not a little Mac, after all. (Or not yet. ) It's a very savvy iPod / phone.

Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post

I will be very interested to see just how Apple implements text selection and cutting and pasting (assuming it can be done at all) without traditional menus or keyboard commands.... and via multi-touch. It'll be fascinating to see how they do it.

Text selection, hmmm, how about "press and slide over text"? I think there will still be menu items or small icons for some apps (SMS, Mail) and cut/copy/paste could be part of that.
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post #26 of 35
5/16/07 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post

I will be very interested to see just how Apple implements text selection and cutting and pasting (assuming it can be done at all) without traditional menus or keyboard commands.... and via multi-touch. It'll be fascinating to see how they do it.

I'm trying my best to keep up with any iphone info that comes out, even if it's just rumors, but was there anywhere that said that they wouldn't use context menus on the iphone? there have been contextual menus on any phone i've ever used, smart or not (I'm a late starter). As for my personal view on how it will be done, you use your finger like a pointer; tap (something; link, etc...) to click, slide over something (text, etc) to select, tap and hold on anything (selected tect, blank space) to bring up a contextual menu which will have commands that you can perform according to the... context...

Guys, don't think this over too hard. It's OSX, put into a phone GUI. It will have all the power we're used to, but it will probably be very restricted at the start, but open up as apple feels more comfortable with the platform/users demand more flexibility.
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post #27 of 35
5/16/07 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

Isn't it nice when you can answer your own questions.

so you're saying you must turn the phone to portrait mode to enter any text? that's not great ergonomically. that's one of the benefits of a slider keyboard or some other sort of landscape keyboard setup like a sidekick.
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post #28 of 35
5/16/07 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by admactanium View Post

so you're saying you must turn the phone to portrait mode to enter any text? that's not great ergonomically. that's one of the benefits of a slider keyboard or some other sort of landscape keyboard setup like a sidekick.

No, I was referring to when you said.....

Quote:
...seems like it would have to since obviously we'll need to type SOMETHING while in landscape mode at some point. it would be poor form if you had to turn the phone 90 degrees just to type stuff in, although i guess it's certainly possible that this is the case.

Yes, the iPhone would need to have the keyboard available in landscape mode, because it would be REALLY, REALLY, REALLY stupid to have to keep turning your phone every time you wanted to input something.
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post #29 of 35
5/16/07 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

No, I was referring to when you said.....



Yes, the iPhone would need to have the keyboard available in landscape mode, because it would be REALLY, REALLY, REALLY stupid to have to keep turning your phone every time you wanted to input something.

yes, it would. which is why it's a bit worrying, now that i think about it, that the keyboard has never been showing landscape mode.
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post #30 of 35
5/16/07 at 10:38am
OK, but I'm sure there are tons of features and things the iPhone can do that was not shown in the keynote, which is about the only place we've seen the iPhone in action.
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post #31 of 35
5/17/07 at 1:06am
The screen touch feature is a bit off to be honest..I am wishing that Apple will also provide a external keyboard in the iPhone's package
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post #32 of 35
5/17/07 at 6:24am
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Well, the phone has Bluetooth, and there is that BT keyboard they sell... just a thought. (Don't think it'll happen from them, but you never know. OS X kernel + BT keyboard driver from MacOS X = ?)

You know, it's funny reading this, because it's obvious you guys never used a Newton.

Cut/copy/paste - JupiterOne got that one - select the item you want, tap, hold, drag to edge, where it docks as a floating indicator. Switch to destination doc/app, drag off and drop. Works really well.

Seriously, these UI issues were solved over a decade ago, it isn't really anything to worry about. I'm more intrigued to see how far off of the Newton UI model it ends up being... should be fun.
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post #33 of 35
5/17/07 at 7:43am
The 2 items that interest me are the touch screen keyboard and Apple's bluetooth headset. After using compact keyboards like the ones on the Treo, going to one that does not have the tactile feedback will require a learning curve. As for the headset, right now it is vaporware. As for browsers most are scaled down for mobile units. This is not a real problem. Safari has got to be light years better than Palm's Blazer.
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post #34 of 35
5/17/07 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Well, the phone has Bluetooth, and there is that BT keyboard they sell... just a thought. (Don't think it'll happen from them, but you never know. OS X kernel + BT keyboard driver from MacOS X = ?)

You know, it's funny reading this, because it's obvious you guys never used a Newton.

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post #35 of 35
5/17/07 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

How are we going to type text into form fields on web pages using iPhone's "mini-Safari"?

They could easily add an update to make the onscreen keyboard on the iPhone transparent in Safari, that would solve some issues right away.

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