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Jerry Falwell Dead at 73 - Page 2

post #41 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Any faith are subject to piracy by fakes and phonys.

My goodness, thank god you are here! Please, sammi jo, bless us with the names of some Christians who are "real Christians" in your all knowing sight... I mean, surely you are able to name others who are OK... or do you have a problem with Christianity itself? I need to know who I might look to that will not align me with the kind of bile I've seen around here today.
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post #42 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

You used to really have it, tonton. Is this the best you can do in your dotage?

I am trying to ascertain why another user has SUCH a vitriolic view of a recently deceased non-user. I am seeking to understand if there are real reasons, or just that "he's a righty, fuck em" All i keep hearing are graphic and violent/sexual fantasies about a deceased minister, and well, shit, my curiosity is piqued.

Don't you have a predictable, meaningless argument to get to on some thread about now?

JF has personally spread so much hate against people that I love, people in my community, people in my country, who really ought to have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit, as long as it does not harm others.

What JF did was specifically to harm others. Others he disagreed with. Others he judged himself "morally superior" to.

And he did this his entire life, to enourmous success.

He was a main contributor to exactly what is wrong with Christianity in the United States of America. He spread the moral aggression against peopceful people. He spread hate and lies.

Surely if you care about Christianity, you will not welcome such a false voice of God into your community, right?
post #43 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Surely if you care about Christianity, you will not welcome such a false voice of God into your community, right?

I'm not going to post it a THIRD time for you people to read. Either you are lazy or just trying to pick a fight. So go answer your own question and quit flame-baiting.

As far as your recounting of JFs evils, I was not asking you, I was asking MacRR and he did not have an answer.
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post #44 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Either you are lazy or just trying to pick a fight. So go answer your own question and quit flame-baiting.

Projecting much, Jube?

We get your point about respecting the dead.

You just don't have to chase down every poster that conflicts with that view.
post #45 of 128
The damn funniest part of all of this is that ideologically, Falwell and I are at very different ends of the stick. I have been posting here since 2001 that the government should be out of our wallets, gun safes, and BEDROOMS. You know, that old small-government ideal that the government that governs least is the one that governs best?

I find it funny that so many on this board want to increase the power and scope of the federal government, while at the same time decrying that freedoms to live as you wish are disappearing. What an amazing problem that must be. Finally many of you, under the Reign of King George, are seeing that a big, powerful, dogmatic government is not always going to be used to support your particular worldview. In fact, it can take just as much freedom from you as you were glad to see taken from the "other side."


Two ideas come to mind...

"The government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

"When the government's boot in on your throat, wether it is the right or the left boot makes no difference."


I will state one final time that I was not a fan of Falwell, I think he went too far, damaged both his own effort and those he was attempting to enforce his upon. (See my EARLIER POST) Does that make you lock-step folks happy? Satisfied now? Think you have "won" something from someone who largely agreed with you in the first place? Because I swear to Einstein that my head will explode if I have answer one more flame-bait looking for a Falwell fanboi. My only point was that it was in poor taste and a bit cold-hearted to not give a person at least basic respect upon their demise.
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post #46 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

Projecting much, Jube?
We get your point about respecting the dead.
You just don't have to chase down every poster that conflicts with that view.

I'd say they have been chasing me down.. looking to take out some FalwellAngst. Show me anywhere in this thread where I have said that I like the man or his policies. Now, observe the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Surely if you care about Christianity, you will not welcome such a false voice of God into your community, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRR View Post

Are you saying you agree with the guy's philosophies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRR View Post

So you feel compelled to defend him to me? Why would that be? That's your trip, man.

The FLAME BAIT Buffet! Now just $6.66!
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post #47 of 128
R.I.P I guess he must've lost his direct line to God. Darn internets!
post #48 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

It's easy enough to let this thread stand as a case study into how the mean-spirited and hateful portions of the Left truly are.

Maybe this is true - maybe not.

But what I wonder is; why the hell did religion and faith ever become about 'left' and 'right'?

It didn't come from JC that's for sure...it was people like Falwell that made that littel dream reality.

Faith has nothig to do with politics and shouldn't have. In the US it has everything to do with it....
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post #49 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

I'd say they have been chasing me down..

#9, 15, 20, and 21 were all you initiating it and engaging someone for generally not being respectful enough of the dead.

We get your point.
post #50 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

My only point was that it was in poor taste and a bit cold-hearted to not give a person at least basic respect upon their demise.

I don't recall that applying to Saddam, Uday or Zarqawi so you will have to add a rider. Something like: "if they are 'good guys" or "if they deserve it".

But that would then blow your argument out of the water as a universal and mean that perhaps JF does not in fact deserve respect because of who he is.

So you'd be back to square one.

I'd say you have a fallacious argument there....

But hey, you're right..the guy is dead so let's remember him as he lived his Christian walk and for all his comforting words of spiritual solace:

Quote:
“homosexuals are brute beasts...part of a vile and satanic system that will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven.”

“Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions”

“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”

“Someone must not be afraid to say, ‘moral perversion is wrong.’ If we do not act now, homosexuals will own America!.. If you and I do not speak up now, this homosexual steamroller will literally crush all decent men, women, and children who get in its way…and our nation will pay a terrible price!”

“I listen to feminists and all these radical gals - most of them are failures. They’ve blown it. Some of them have been married, but they married some Casper Milquetoast who asked permission to go to the bathroom. These women just need a man in the house. That’s all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they’re mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They’re sexist. They hate men - that’s their problem.”

“The whole (global warming) thing is created to destroy America’s free enterprise system and our economic stability”

I guess we'll all miss him...comedy gold......
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post #51 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

#9, 15, 20, and 21 were all you initiating it and engaging someone for generally not being respectful enough of the dead.

We get your point.

I get your point that you get my point. Sounds pointless. I take it as it comes, and basic lack of respect for the dead disturbs me. And it is revealing about what is within people deep down as they tell the rest of us to be compassionate and empathetic with our votes and wallets.
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post #52 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I don't recall that applying to Saddam, Uday or Zarqawi so you will have to add a rider. Something like: "if they are 'good guys" or "if they deserve it".

But that would then blow your argument out of the water as a universal and mean that perhaps JF does not in fact deserve respect because of who he is.

So you'd be back to square one.

I'd say you have a fallacious argument there....

Wow, Moral equivalency between three murdering, torturing, and raping dictators and a largely irrelevant pastor with no such terroristic qualifications. Hey, whatever floats your boat. I did not advocate the public spectacle of the Husseins, nor did I think that their deaths were lacking in the human tragedy.
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post #53 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Wow, Moral equivalency between three murdering, torturing, and raping dictators and a largely irrelevant pastor with no such terroristic qualifications. Hey, whatever floats your boat. I did not advocate the public spectacle of the Husseins, nor did I think that their deaths were lacking in the human tragedy.

So you ARE saying that respect is dependent on moral quality?

A minute ago you were saying it was nothing to do with Falwell's stance but respect for a dead human being....

Which is it?

Oh...wait....don't worry...we've got it worked out....
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post #54 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So you ARE saying that respect is dependent on moral quality?

A minute ago you were saying it was nothing to do with Falwell's stance but respect for a dead human being....

ZING!
post #55 of 128
As someone on some other board wrote:

"I feel that Falwell was a genuinely evil person. The only think that seperates him from someone like Osama Bin Laden are the cutural norms of the societies that surround them. Put Falwell in the 16th century and you can bet he'd be right there torturing heretics and murdering unbelievers.

his soul was the soul of a monster."

And that's the TRUTH.
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post #56 of 128
Though any death is a tragedy, this is one jerk who will not be missed by many.

Though he presumed to be acting in good, he often did not.

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #57 of 128
People who want you to fiercely respect the dead rarely respect the living.
post #58 of 128
He had great Evangelical hair.....

That slicked back look is a must before starting a career such as his.

His hair will be sorely missed.
post #59 of 128
Jube-

i have never picked a fight with you.

I just stated my opinion and you came flying out to defend some dead teletubic weirdo fuck of a loser.

I am sorry, but considering how you are going after anyone who says anything they felt about the guy that isn't solemn respect- it's you man.

Anyways- it's sort of infers that you agreed with the sub-man and all his hate filled BS, and can't bear to see anyone speak badly of him.

Well, jube- the guy said and believed a lot of very bad stuff.

So...

I hope the triangle headed teletubby is boinking him in the poopshoot repeatedly with no lube in the 9th circle of hell with the other teletubbies in the wings getting ready to tag team his ass for eternity.

don't blow a gasket. That's just how I feel.

and it's not hate, or like I am angry. It's just funny to disrespect that fat fuck of a chode.
I mean- I could go on all day!
post #60 of 128
NM- I misread.

post #61 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

My only point was that it was in poor taste and a bit cold-hearted to not give a person at least basic respect upon their demise.

He's dead. Get over it. His family won't of course. Praying (BEGGING) to a false god that he gets the express train to paradise. Hate to be blunt, but that's my take on it. Falwell and his ilk have turned this country around 180 degrees into the Middle Ages. What is not there to hate? Let me count the ways:

"God is a Republican" - Jerry Falwell - 1979

"Jesus was the First American." - Jerry Falwell - circa 1977

"I do question the sincerity of people like the Reverend Martin Luther King..." Jerry Falwell - 1965

"Archbishop Desmond Tutu is a phony." - Jerry Falwell - August 24, 1985

"The Beast (The Antichrist) when comes he must be, of necessity, a Jewish male" - Jerry Falwell - 2006

"I hope to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we don't have public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them." - Jerry Falwell - 1979

"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country." - Jerry Falwell - July 4, 1976

"If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth ... We need to pull out all the stops to recruit and train 25 million Americans to become informed pro-moral activists whose voices can be heard in the halls of Congress." - Jerry Falwell - September, 1984

"The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history..." - Jerry Falwell - September 1982

"Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them." - Jerry Falwell - May 17, 1997

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" - Jerry Falwell - September 2001

"The (gay-oriented) Metropolitan Community Churches are brute beasts and a vile and Satanic system that will one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven..." - Jerry Falwell - 1984


And his controversies Falwell generated followed a predictable loop.
1.) Falwell would say something hateful or clownish about some person or group associated with liberalism.
2.) A public outcry would ensue.
3.) Falwell would apologize and retract the offending comment.
4.) Falwell would repeat the comment, slightly rephrased.

I don't think the bouncer St. Peter will give him that much leeway...
post #62 of 128
Don't forget!

"As a Christian I feel that role modeling the gay lifestyle is damaging to the moral lives of children." -- After a 1999 article in Falwell's National Liberty Journal characterizing a "Teletubbies" character as gay

haha.. what a fucktard.

I mean- teletubbies is trippy.. a bit scary even. That sun baby thing when it cried made me want to run out of the room!

But where did this skidmark of a man come up with this shit?
post #63 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo View Post

A great day for Larry Flynt. The saviour of the first amendment.

link apparently our favorite hustler doesn't have as much animus for this asshat as we might expect. though diametrically opposed on moral issues (or at least one issue), flynt and the clown had a reasonable relationship. even evil has some nice qualities if you meet them face to face.
post #64 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by thuh Freak View Post

link apparently our favorite hustler doesn't have as much animus for this asshat as we might expect. though diametrically opposed on moral issues (or at least one issue), flynt and the clown had a reasonable relationship. even evil has some nice qualities if you meet them face to face.

Al Sharpton on Hardball last night made similar comments - he basically said he found Falwell to be a nice person and considered him a friend, even if he disagreed firmly with many/most of his views.
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post #65 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So you ARE saying that respect is dependent on moral quality?

No, I am not saying that at all... just an aside for your benefit, since you made the point.

A basic pause of respect for a dead human is a constant cross-culturally.
The appraisal of their legacy while a living person is another thing altogether, generally done after that above.

My issue is that the human loss was ignored in deference to an instant outpouring of hatred and a particularly distasteful variety of schadenfreude. And considering the sources of such postings, I think it was particularly hypocritical.
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post #66 of 128
No hypocritical would be giving this man the respect he didn't give a whole lot of people when he was alive.

Did telejerry give any respect to the dead or their families on 9/11?

Again- hypocritical.
post #67 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

No, I am not saying that at all... just an aside for your benefit, since you made the point.

A basic pause of respect for a dead human is a constant cross-culturally.
The appraisal of their legacy while a living person is another thing altogether, generally done after that above.

My issue is that the human loss was ignored in deference to an instant outpouring of hatred and a particularly distasteful variety of schadenfreude. And considering the sources of such postings, I think it was particularly hypocritical.

But the subject of this thread is Jerry Falwell-- not posters in this thread.

You made your point, now move on.
post #68 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

No, I am not saying that at all... just an aside for your benefit, since you made the point.

A basic pause of respect for a dead human is a constant cross-culturally.
The appraisal of their legacy while a living person is another thing altogether, generally done after that above.

My issue is that the human loss was ignored in deference to an instant outpouring of hatred and a particularly distasteful variety of schadenfreude. And considering the sources of such postings, I think it was particularly hypocritical.

Look, bottom line; Jesus preached and lived love and tolerance. Period.

Anyone who supports, justifies and spreads dissent and division - and Falwell and his supporters DO exactly that - is not a follwer of Jesus.

Of 'Christianity' maybe. Of the Republican Party almost certainly. Of the Church - perhaps on a good day but of Jesus....no.

So let's just call it like it is and take it from there. Then we can start talking about respect or otherwise.

No-one is deserving of respect because they happen to die...that is going to happen to us all just like it happens to every being that ever lived (except God).

There ain't no respect due for that. It's HOW you LIVED.

Now...back on topic...

What will his legacy be? Well, how about the Wonderful University so eulogized by a poster above?

Quote:
"The jury is still out on global warming," said the Rev Falwell, in a sermon broadcast on the internet in February this year.

"Despite all the hype by liberal politicians, the media, Hollywood and so forth, it is not yet proven by any means that greenhouse gas emissions are the cause of global warming."

His word is taken as gospel by the university's students.

One, Sharon Langat, says she thinks the attention paid to climate change is out of proportion.

"We should pay more attention to other global issues apart from global warming. I know there's money put there, I just don't think we should put that much money in there."

A lesson taught by Dr Thomas Ice, Liberty University's senior theologian, focuses on headaches like Armageddon, salvation and the Second Coming.

"It's a hoax, certainly," he says. "I think global warming is being used like many political issues to try to move the world from nationalism to internationalism or global governance."

Rigorous academic standards there. But let's not forget that Falwell also did his bit in the area of Middle Eastern Research and Inter-Faith Harmony when after 5 minutes rigorous skmming of fifth-hand sources he declared Muhammad was a terrorist because he was a 'man of war'.

Well so is Bush. So was Moses, David and Joshua. So would Falwell himself be given half the chance as he supported war at every turn - but no matter. This is the peak of intellectual acumen and theological brilliance we are suppposed to 'respect'.

I say to do so would be demeaning to the human mind, demeaning to any sense of morality and human feeling and if there was such a thing as sin then it would probably be one of those too.
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post #69 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

A basic pause of respect for a dead human is a constant cross-culturally.
The appraisal of their legacy while a living person is another thing altogether, generally done after that above.

My issue is that the human loss was ignored in deference to an instant outpouring of hatred and a particularly distasteful variety of schadenfreude. And considering the sources of such postings, I think it was particularly hypocritical.

What a load of shit. You have no qualms about shooting someone over $20. You clearly have a set of criteria (criteria some of us would call completely batshit) that someone has to meet for you to care at all even about killing them yourself, much less their death from some other cause, so get off your soapbox.
post #70 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by giant View Post

You have no qualms about shooting someone over $20.

What the fuck are you talking about?
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post #71 of 128
LOL
post #72 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by giant View Post

LOL

Grow a set and answer the question. You have made an outrageous accusation, now explain it.

<edit: +36hrs - I thought so, giant. Cheap-shot, lying coward.>
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post #73 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Look, bottom line; Jesus preached and lived love and tolerance. Period.

OK, stepping away from a post-mortem on that awful yadda yadda yadda Falwell for a minute...

I think the money changers would disagree with your statement. I don't think there was much love and tolerance there.

Maybe there was "only one true Christian, and he died on the cross" (Nietzsche)

Those that need the angle to attack Christians and Christianity always go for "where is the peace, acceptance and love, you hypocrites?" Well, I agree with you, there is a HUGE problem with the modern Church in its application of those values. But it's intellectually lazy to say that there are not defined lines that lead to condemnation and an utter lack of tolerance in the Bible. Jesus was constantly rebuking his own Apostles for their misguided words and actions. Many who want to attack Christianity want to paint Jesus into this milquetoast whipping post that never took a stand or offended anyone out of the ideals of love and acceptance. It was a major theme of His time here, agreed. But to push the idea that Jesus was all-tolerant of everything and non-confrontational, and thus His followers should be, in not an accurate representation of the message. For most of us deluded Christian idiots, Jesus is the bar of tolerance and love that we should aspire to. Falwell, et al, took the other bar- the one of calling a spade a spade in his personal judgement, though highly contingent on interpretation.

Does the modern Church need to do a heck of a lot more to promote love and acceptance? Sure. I am a proud PoMo with Baptist roots and I can tell you that, true to our faith, we fall hugely short of the mark. And folks like Falwell really, IMHO, are problematic in their personal execution of their personal flavour of Christianity. Many in the non-fundie Christian community looked at Falwell as the crazy uncle we'd wince to claim, if at all.

Some of the quotes mentioned above are a huge and ongoing problem as we try to "get over" that very public "voice." I rejected Falwell as a speaker for all Christians just as some blacks have rejected Sharpton as their speaker. These people become media creations in their own right, and have little to do with the faith or belief of the average people they are being said to speak for. Who speaks for me? No one but me.

(Now, I know how things go around here. And before you go there, read the first line one more time.)
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post #74 of 128
Huh? give me a fucking break...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Falwell, et al, took the other bar- the one of calling a spade a spade in his personal judgement, though highly contingent on interpretation.
post #75 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRR View Post

Huh? give me a fucking break...

Please, illuminate the issue, MacRR... I'd like to hear it.
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post #76 of 128
Actually, if you could illuminate that sentence.. I'd like to hear that. Expound please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Please, illuminate the issue, MacRR... I'd like to hear it.
post #77 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

I think the money changers would disagree with your statement. I don't think there was much love and tolerance there.

I don't think it is a question of 'tolerance'. You seem unable to see spiritual matters in terms other than 'liberal' or 'right-wing' at some fundamental level.

I do not claim Jesus taught tolerance - I do not claim Falwell did (and few people would), none of this is the point. The point is tolerance - or more properly intolerance of WHAT?

Or, put another way; "who are the moneychangers in the Temple" today?

Who are the Pharisees?
Who are the hypocrites?
Who are 'selling merchandise in God's house'?

Hint: there is one less of them today than there was yesterday.
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post #78 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I don't think it is a question of 'tolerance'. You seem unable to see spiritual matters in terms other than 'liberal' or 'right-wing' at some fundamental level.

sego- there are great and bad Christians from all poltical stripes... the Church resume has nothing to do with political party. I have good friends who are Marx plus religion, and they are Christians I look up to. Seeing spiritual matters as non-political is no problem. It's a given.

Quote:
I do not claim Jesus taught tolerance - I do not claim Falwell did (and few people would), none of this is the point. The point is tolerance - or more properly intolerance of WHAT?

A personal definition of "sin" from one man... Intolerance based on one singular interpretation of the Bible. An interpretation that led to the starting of univerisities and a sizeable following in the early 80s. Intolerance of those that, through a particular (warped IMHO) view, are worthy of contempt.

The abortion debate seriously empowered people like Falwell, who tacked on the rest of their interpretations to the popular support they gained from the abortion issue.

Quote:
Who are the Pharisees?

73.27% of mainstream Church leaders, at last tally. Updates soon.

Quote:
Who are the hypocrites?

Scripturally, everyone who calls themselves a Christian- because they seek and speak of an ideal that none of us will ever meet. It's part of the humility thing. All have fallen short.

Quote:
Who are 'selling merchandise in God's house'?

I'd go so far as to say that it has gone beyond selling merchandise in God's house. In all too many congregations, the house itself is on the market. It's why the Postmodern movement is better in my opinion than the traditional movement. The Universal church notwithstanding.

Quote:
Hint: there is one less of them today than there was yesterday.

Somewhere on the north side of San Antonio, Texas, JF has already been replaced.
The mantle has been passed. (As it was on CNN yesterday)
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post #79 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRR View Post

Actually, if you could illuminate that sentence.. I'd like to hear that. Expound please!

Um.. I said what I said. It was clear enough for you to throw a bullshit flag.
Don't make me call shenanigans!
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post #80 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

So now people who disagree with you should be branded "Un-American". How Cheney of you.

MacRR shouldn't pull the Un-American card but you have no leg to stand on complaining about it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
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