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Apple developers asked to test Mac OS X 10.4.10 broadly

post #1 of 40
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A tenth and presumably final update to Apple's Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger operating system is reported to have hit the widespread testing phase, placing within its cross-hairs nearly all of the system's most vital components.

As revealed by both AppleInsider and MacRumors last week, the forthcoming update will be the first in recent history from the Cupertino-based Mac maker to reach the "dot ten" sub version, or Mac OS X 10.4.10.

Over the weekend, MacRumors reported on the release of the first pre-release builds of the software to developers. According to the rumor site, the two distinct software seeds carry build number 8R2205 (for the Intel version) and 8R205 (for the PowerPC version).

People who claim to be familiar with the test releases have noted on various web outlets that builds presently do not contain any outstanding issues. That should come as no surprise, as Apple is no longer adding feature enhancements to Tiger through its incremental maintenance updates.

Instead, the company is striving solely to stabilize and optimize the system ahead of Leopard, its next generation OS due out this October. As part of the effort, Mac OS X 10.4.10 in its early stages is said to target loose ends in over four dozen of Tiger's system components.

Those claiming to be familiar with Mac OS X 10.4.10 have singled out disc recording and mass storage operability as some of the focal points of the software. Meanwhile, others add that the Tiger update will also strengthen AirPort wireless software, graphics drivers, USB and FireWire.

Among the improvements reported to have been rolled into the initial builds are bug fixes for network directories and JavaScript.

The update is expected to arrive free-of-charge for owners of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger sometime later this year.
post #2 of 40
The bigger news is how soul-crushing this will be for those who argue x.x.10 releases aren't possible.
post #3 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The update is expected to arrive free-of-charge for owners of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger sometime later this year.

Did anyone really expect Apple to charge for a sub-version update?
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post #4 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielandrews View Post

The bigger news is how soul-crushing this will be for those who argue x.x.10 releases aren't possible.

That's why I think people should not say "never".
post #5 of 40
I'm especially happy to see graphics drivers as an area of improvement; hopefully this will fix the ocassional kernel panics and lockups I'm seeing while running Second Life.

Another looooooooooooooong-standing issue that I hope they fix someday is the system getting into a hosed state when mounted network shares "go away" for whatever reason. The timeout on network shares is *way* too long and I shouldn't have to reboot just because I slept my laptop while connected to an afp share, then woke it up on another network.

Hopefully they get this and other minor issues fixed.
post #6 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's why I think people should not say "never".

Are you saying we should never say "never"?
post #7 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post


Another looooooooooooooong-standing issue that I hope they fix someday is the system getting into a hosed state when mounted network shares "go away" for whatever reason. The timeout on network shares is *way* too long and I shouldn't have to reboot just because I slept my laptop while connected to an afp share, then woke it up on another network.

Zorinlynx,

Why don't you check out this MACOSXHINT from today:

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...70522053721530

Best Regards,
Moukkis
post #8 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

Another looooooooooooooong-standing issue that I hope they fix someday is the system getting into a hosed state when mounted network shares "go away" for whatever reason. The timeout on network shares is *way* too long and I shouldn't have to reboot just because I slept my laptop while connected to an afp share, then woke it up on another network.

Hopefully they get this and other minor issues fixed.

I've seen people say that this issue was largely fixed in 10.4.9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe View Post

Are you saying we should never say "never"?

I think it works out to that.
post #9 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I've seen people say that this issue was largely fixed in 10.4.9.

AFP networking is better with 10.4.9, but it's still an issue. At least Leopard is doing at least a partial revamp of the networking within Finder. The new setup is now much more Apple-like.
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post #10 of 40
"Presumably final update" to Tiger? I'm going to step out on a limb and say there will be a 10.4.11. Why? Because Apple always releases a patch right before a 10.x update... That and there's still a good 4.5 months before October. There's bound to be some updates before then.

I'd be willing to put $50 on it... any takers?

-Clive
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post #11 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

"Presumably final update" to Tiger? I'm going to step out on a limb and say there will be a 10.4.11. Why? Because Apple always releases a patch right before a 10.x update... That and there's still a good 4.5 months before October. There's bound to be some updates before then.

I'd be willing to put $50 on it... any takers?

-Clive

I agree and won't take the bet. Usually they do that to tweek any compatibility issues between the OSes.
post #12 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I agree and won't take the bet. Usually they do that to tweek any compatibility issues between the OSes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

"Presumably final update" to Tiger? I'm going to step out on a limb and say there will be a 10.4.11.

Me too: "Depending on when this is officially released, we may also see a 10.4.11."
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post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielandrews View Post

The bigger news is how soul-crushing this will be for those who argue x.x.10 releases aren't possible.

This is its biggest feature, for me. 10.4.9 seems quite stable, but I would like that one bug squashed.

Do what you will, but harm none.

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Do what you will, but harm none.

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post #14 of 40
It's killing me that nobody here has mentioned the obvious reason for putting out 10.4.10 for testing and release at this time. Look at the timelines!

Leopard delayed
Centrino Pro (Santa Rosa) released
MacBook Pro update is due, announcement widely expected at WWDC June 11
Mac OS X 10.4.10 released for testing in late May

This update almost certainly contains Santa Rosa support and whatever new drivers the new Santa Rosa MacBook Pro will need, which will be announced in a couple of weeks. A 10.4 update is needed to support new hardware. Inspection of 10.4.10 may also reveal what graphics adapter the new MBPs will use! You could maybe even tell if they use LED backlit displays (as has been rumored). Someone should dig into this patch...
post #15 of 40
It's not THAT stable. There are glitches.

The other night, for reasons I'm unaware of, I got a kernel panic. MY browser was open, but I wasn't accessing a page at the time.

Suddenly, the screen panic graphics sweeps downward, and the lovely message appeared.

Safari still quits or freezes at odd times.
post #16 of 40
I just hope that Apple will make 10.4.10 available on a DVD. I'm still stuck with dial-up, and running 10.4.6.

Atempting to download a 10.4.10 from Apple is a practible impossibility
post #17 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by gberger View Post

I just hope that Apple will make 10.4.10 available on a DVD. I'm still stuck with dial-up, and running 10.4.6.

Atempting to download a 10.4.10 from Apple is a practible impossibility

There are lots of members here (myself included) who would gladly burn a disc with the updater and mail it to you if you so desire.
post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by gberger View Post

I just hope that Apple will make 10.4.10 available on a DVD. I'm still stuck with dial-up, and running 10.4.6.

Atempting to download a 10.4.10 from Apple is a practible impossibility

There are also 5 Apple retail stores in Virginia and all of them would burn you a DVD of 10.4.10 at your request.
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by chem View Post

It's killing me that nobody here has mentioned the obvious reason for putting out 10.4.10 for testing and release at this time. Look at the timelines!

Leopard delayed
Centrino Pro (Santa Rosa) released
MacBook Pro update is due, announcement widely expected at WWDC June 11
Mac OS X 10.4.10 released for testing in late May

This update almost certainly contains Santa Rosa support and whatever new drivers the new Santa Rosa MacBook Pro will need, which will be announced in a couple of weeks. A 10.4 update is needed to support new hardware. Inspection of 10.4.10 may also reveal what graphics adapter the new MBPs will use! You could maybe even tell if they use LED backlit displays (as has been rumored). Someone should dig into this patch...

Sorry to ruin your day, but that's not true. Apple has several times in the past released new hardware with support built into a special version of 10.whatever.whatever.

And people have been widely expecting a MBP announcement for three months, so to say that 10.4.10 is now magically the proof, I'd just like to point out I thought 10.4.9 was the proof.

And what does Leopard's delay have to do with any of this? I don't recall Apple ever holding up a hardware release for an OS release (or vice versa).

BTW, aren't you being a little optimistic that Apple's MBP update would be so grand it would require such a special update to the OS? Besides the processor, I'd be shocked if Apple decided to update the video, sound, or anything else.
post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

Sorry to ruin your day, but that's not true. Apple has several times in the past released new hardware with support built into a special version of 10.whatever.whatever.

And what does Leopard's delay have to do with any of this? I don't recall Apple ever holding up a hardware release for an OS release (or vice versa).

BTW, aren't you being a little optimistic that Apple's MBP update would be so grand it would require such a special update to the OS? Besides the processor, I'd be shocked if Apple decided to update the video, sound, or anything else.

Apple was probably doing Santa Rosa development exclusively on Leopard, as Leopard was supposed to come out before SR. Therefore they have to backport SR and any other new MBP updates to 10.4. That, coupled with other work they had in the pipeline, leads to a 10.4.10 before the SR MBPs are released. Further, the SR MBPs most certainly will contain updated video, or else all the reviews will laugh at them, and point out how Wintel laptops like Thinkpads or Latitudes are so much more advanced / faster / etc than MBPs, and also came out a month or two earlier (many Wintel machines just received significant video bumps). Apple will not want that kinda PR.

My next post will be after the MBP specs are revealed, and the 10.4.10 support of SR is revealed, and it will be a "I told you so."
post #21 of 40
double post, please delete.
post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by chem View Post

Apple was probably doing Santa Rosa development exclusively on Leopard, as Leopard was supposed to come out before SR. Therefore they have to backport SR and any other new MBP updates to 10.4. That, coupled with other work they had in the pipeline, leads to a 10.4.10 before the SR MBPs are released. Further, the SR MBPs most certainly will contain updated video, or else all the reviews will laugh at them, and point out how Wintel laptops like Thinkpads or Latitudes are so much more advanced / faster / etc than MBPs, and also came out a month or two earlier (many Wintel machines just received significant video bumps). Apple will not want that kinda PR.

My next post will be after the MBP specs are revealed, and the 10.4.10 support of SR is revealed, and it will be a "I told you so."

Ah, but they've known for a long time about the Leopard delay (or they were just fooling themselves thinking it was going to magically make schedule as they kept pulling people out), and, as such, have had the time to implement said changes.

But I don't know what you mean "That, coupled with other work they had in the pipeline". Is that other stuff they were doing for 10.4, or some stuff they were doing for leopard they now want to put back into 10.4?

And, again, there is no need for a 10.4.10 to implement these changes. They can just make a 10.4.9 build with the required changes and be done with it (they do this all the time, I wouldn't be surprised if the new MacBooks had a later build number then the released 10.4.9). There's certainly no reason to push a new macbook release down the line because you're trying to add support with a bunch of other fixes and changes in a big update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chem View Post

AFurther, the SR MBPs most certainly will contain updated video, or else all the reviews will laugh at them, and point out how Wintel laptops like Thinkpads or Latitudes are so much more advanced / faster / etc than MBPs, and also came out a month or two earlier (many Wintel machines just received significant video bumps). Apple will not want that kinda PR.

Hey, it didn't stop them from updating the MacBooks with new processors and not changing the video or any of the other parts of the machine.
post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by chem View Post

My next post will be after the MBP specs are revealed, and the 10.4.10 support of SR is revealed, and it will be a "I told you so."

Quote:
Originally Posted by chem View Post

double post, please delete.



Classic.

-Clive
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post #24 of 40
If 10.4.10 does not bring full compatibility with Google online services I will raise hell.
post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmmy View Post

If 10.4.10 does not bring full compatibility with Google online services I will raise hell.

Is that like raising a zombi?
post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

"Presumably final update" to Tiger? I'm going to step out on a limb and say there will be a 10.4.11. Why? Because Apple always releases a patch right before a 10.x update... That and there's still a good 4.5 months before October. There's bound to be some updates before then.

I'd be willing to put $50 on it... any takers?

-Clive

Tiger OS X 10.10.10 update delayed until DECEMBER due to Apple allocating massive programming resources to new widescreen Video iPod with Wi-Fi capability.

- DigiTimes Staff Writer (not really)
post #27 of 40
Thanks for offering to burn a DVD of 10.4.10! We have an Apple Store near where we live, and I'll ask one of the individuals there to burn a copy for me.

This is a doggone friendly site.

George
post #28 of 40
10.4.11 is impossible. The next update would have to be 10.4.10.1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

"Presumably final update" to Tiger? I'm going to step out on a limb and say there will be a 10.4.11. Why? Because Apple always releases a patch right before a 10.x update... That and there's still a good 4.5 months before October. There's bound to be some updates before then.

I'd be willing to put $50 on it... any takers?

-Clive
post #29 of 40
* for the love of god, please eliminate the hanging 'cacscade' .. when one app is 'not responding', it seems to spill over & cause lots of other PID's to hang as well --- grrrrrrrrrrrr!

* make the console record ALL the hanging events! ... so that evidence can be submitted to apple!

* create a more structured represenation for the logs ... xml (use ajax - css & xhtml - so the the backend can be pumped into sqlite which ships with osx! ... postgress would be prefered (webobjects even better!) .... apple needs to start using CORE DATA in their own telemetry!!! ... if not, then make sure that there is userland equivelent to 'xray' in the leopard version of activity monitor!)

* figure out why all browsers (webkit & gecko & others) constantly & pervasively HANG HANG HANG!!!! this is an os/x problem!

* drivers!!!! //// more dvds (burn) /////// drivers for more cell phones (sync) //// more bluetooth dongles -- my mac cant recognize almost any peripheral i connect to it!!! ------- this incompatibility does tremendous damage to mac's plug'n'play franchise (it doesnt help that apple selected a new brittle, brain-dead driver infrastructure (IOKIT) for os/x (embeded C++) instead of sticking with the reliable driver model (DriverKit) inherited from nextstep (yes, some people say that one way apple innovates from plain-jane unix is with the freedom to create new driver model; sure, that is an advatntage of darwin over legacy unix; but there is no reason why that choice has to be so far away from where the 'the finish line' was supposed to be, ie OSF/2).

* stability! .... i have never before believed hat an apple upgrade was not worth it ... but unless apple can PROVE that it can ship an industrial-stregnth reliable version of tiger FIRST, I will have nisgivings about being dragged through yet more years of misery & pain just to have access to some better eye candy. I used to thinbk people who said that sort of thing were dolts; but now i realize that if my rationale for the mac - time is money - is going to mean anything, then it cant just be measured in isolation to windoze ... it has to be measured against a higher standard (which is completely mac way of thinking in the first place!).
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I agree and won't take the bet. Usually they do that to tweek any compatibility issues between the OSes.

That's what I assumed 10.4.10 was seeing as Leopard was originally due out around this time.
post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's not THAT stable. There are glitches.

The other night, for reasons I'm unaware of, I got a kernel panic. MY browser was open, but I wasn't accessing a page at the time.

Suddenly, the screen panic graphics sweeps downward, and the lovely message appeared.

Safari still quits or freezes at odd times.

I'll second the Safari issues. I woke my iMac from sleep this morning with a couple open Safari windows. I clicked on one and was greeted with the spinning beach ball. And it's a pretty normal occurence as are the crashes on certain web pages.

Personally, I'd love for them to show a little love to Front Row. It's still being touted as a major feature of Tiger, but with every new release of iTunes, Front Row gets further and further behind. It doesn't use the new Sort fields (iPods don't handle it well either though) and its handling of video is atrocious (doesn't sort TV shows correctly, duplicates videos in the Music section, can't watch video in the same folder when something is being downloaded from the iTunes Store). And adding Cover Flow mode somehow would be nice as well. Maybe some of these features are coming in Leopard (although the AppleTV makes me fearful it'll be pretty much abandoned to push people toward that path), but the more I try to use Front Row, the more it feels like something I should have downloaded off the internet as beta software, not as a key feature of a major OS.
post #32 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Personally, I'd love for them to show a little love to Front Row. It's still being touted as a major feature of Tiger, but with every new release of iTunes, Front Row gets further and further behind. It doesn't use the new Sort fields (iPods don't handle it well either though) and its handling of video is atrocious (doesn't sort TV shows correctly, duplicates videos in the Music section, can't watch video in the same folder when something is being downloaded from the iTunes Store). And adding Cover Flow mode somehow would be nice as well. Maybe some of these features are coming in Leopard (although the AppleTV makes me fearful it'll be pretty much abandoned to push people toward that path), but the more I try to use Front Row, the more it feels like something I should have downloaded off the internet as beta software, not as a key feature of a major OS.

Well, unfortunately, I think Front Row has seen all the work its going to see. Obviously Front Row was what Apple was working on for the AppleTV. Just for what it is, it works. But it also just feels like another one of Apple's neglected children. They do this ALL the time. Come out with some new feature. Tout it up a storm like its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then never put any more effort into it or update it at all. We saw it with Sherlock. Hell, we see it with the Finder (they seem more interested in putting make up on it to pretty it up, rather then spend quality time with it to make it a better program). We've seen it with Appleworks (a great program shelved for absolutely no reason).
post #33 of 40
apple x.x.10 releases aren't possible?
this post is very useful, I really enjoyed reading this
post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexis7oo View Post

apple x.x.10 releases aren't possible?
this post is very useful, I really enjoyed reading this


I REALLY DO HOPE THAT THEY'LL FIX-UP "SAFARI" BECAUSE IT CRASHES 99.99% OF THE TIME ON ME. AND GET RID MAC OS 9 TOO.
(*APPLE INC.'S OS X*) (*VERSION*) (*#10.7.3+BETA#*) (*BUILD*)
(*#11D36#*) (*ROARING LION USER*)
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(*APPLE INC.'S OS X*) (*VERSION*) (*#10.7.3+BETA#*) (*BUILD*)
(*#11D36#*) (*ROARING LION USER*)
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post #35 of 40
have you tried repairing permissions? A few weeks ago, Safarri started randomly crashing on me a lot, and the problem was a screwy permission. It's been fine ever since.
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post #36 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHEN RAY SNELL View Post

I REALLY DO HOPE THAT THEY'LL FIX-UP "SAFARI" BECAUSE IT CRASHES 99.99% OF THE TIME ON ME. AND GET RID MAC OS 9 TOO.

I agree that Safari has leaks, but it doesn't crash 99.99% of the time. Apple would be chewed out for making a web browser that was "that" bad.

And as far as I know, they "did" get rid of OS 9. No Intel based Mac supports OS 9. And you don't "have" to use classic mode on the Power PC models. I have a 4 year old Powerbook sitting next to me here that's never had the Classic environment booted.
post #37 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHEN RAY SNELL View Post

Guys, I'd Thought That "apple Inc." Wouldn't Do Safari (3.0) For "tiger". I Guess They Have. Does Anyone Know If That "apple Inc." Dropped Mac Os-9 In The Mac Os X (10.4.10) Update?

Doubt it. OS9 should stay. I'd be in a bad spot if they dropped it. My CAD app runs in 9.

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GOA

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post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Doubt it. OS9 should stay. I'd be in a bad spot if they dropped it. My CAD app runs in 9.

Sooner or later though...
post #39 of 40
Can You Guys Confirm That Mac Os 9 Is Completely Gone In Mac Os X (10.4.10) Update?
(*APPLE INC.'S OS X*) (*VERSION*) (*#10.7.3+BETA#*) (*BUILD*)
(*#11D36#*) (*ROARING LION USER*)
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(*APPLE INC.'S OS X*) (*VERSION*) (*#10.7.3+BETA#*) (*BUILD*)
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post #40 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHEN RAY SNELL View Post

Guys, I'd Thought That "apple Inc." Wouldn't Do Safari (3.0) For "tiger". I Guess They Have. Does Anyone Know If That "apple Inc." Dropped Mac Os-9 In The Mac Os X (10.4.10) Update?

Steven, Apple hasn't updated "Classic" in years. Classic is included in the original install of 10.4. It doesn't need an update.

Apple's updates are not going to delete Classic from your machine. As that won't happen, as long as you continue to use any version of 10.4, Classic will continue to work.

I don't know if it is included in 10.5. Apple hasn't said. Developers might know.
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