Closing the book on Apple's Mac mini - Page 6

I have a G4 mini and think the line is one of Apple's best. If they had upgraded the mini to Core 2 Duo last year like they should have, I would've upgraded. I really hope AppleInsider is wrong here, but honestly, if Apple doesn't at least provide a minimal upgrade to the mini soon, they may as well end it.

If Apple drops the mini, they will have effectively and sadly eliminated every Mac except the Mac Pro (which at $2500+ is too expensive) that I'm interested in buying. I will never buy a desktop with a built-in screen. I plan to suck every last bit of life out of this Powerbook because Apple refuses to build-in a modem with supposedly portable laptops. The Apple TV was unbelieveably underwhelming both in hardware and software, and I fully expect the expensive iPhone to undersell expectations. No significant improvement in the iPod either.

I think we've reached a point in the cycle where Steve Jobs is out of touch with reality. He's been there before. For a couple of years there, Apple was on a roll, but they need to get back to listening to their customers rather than telling them what to want.

That's very true, though if you want to customize something like RAM, you should almost never do it through Apple.

Order some RAM from Crucial or someone else reputable on-line, install said RAM yourself (it's easy on most machines), and pocket some pretty huge savings, as Apple Store RAM upgrade prices are criminal.

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You disagree with what?

That most people people don't cut DVD's? I didn't say that people SHOULDN'T cut DVD's. I more than hinted that they should.


I totally agree with you. There! Take that!


Again, I totally agree with you.

All I said is that most people don't do what they should.

Apple is already criticised about its prices. Add a bit here, add a bit there, because everyone has just one teeny tiny feature that if Apple just included, would drive sales up greatly.

I gave a reason why Apple doesn't include it with their least expensive machines, because most people won't use it, and therefore won't want to pay for it. People actually buy those low end machines with the combo drives.

I'm not saying it's a good idea.

And you "know" that he leaked this rumor, because of what?

You know, while we would do that, and I'm sure you often have done much more than that, as I have, believe it or not, most people won't do that.

They want to buy their machine fully equipped, from the source, and never touch it again.

I agree, and Apple certainly takes advantage of said people.

It's just so sad. Apple Store RAM prices are so out of whack that even in cases where you have to TOSS RAM due to insufficient RAM slots, you still come out way ahead by buying RAM elsewhere and installing it yourself. Yeeesh.

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ok. i am agree with you now. Hopefully WWDC has new products which can serve more broader customer base (with out hindering the profit also).

Apple's RAM prices aren't quite as far out of whack as they used to be, though they are a fair amount higher.

A bunch of years ago, I bought a new Hp CL8500N printer, which I still have here at home. That was pretty expensive a machine. I wanted to add more memory.

I called Hp to ask about third party memory, and if I should get it from them instead. I needed 128 MB. this was when 16MB sticks were selling for almost $600. The RAM from Hp was not quite double that.

The engineer said that I shouldn't buy from them, because the reason they sold it was that many organizations required certified memory from them, damn the cost, but that it didn't pay, as I knew what I was doing.

The same thing is true when getting memory, or larger HD's from Apple. Apple covers the warranty for them, which doesn't happen when you buy it yourself.

If you have a problem with the machine, you might have to remove that which you bought yourself before returning the machine to Apple for repair.

But, if the problem was related to that memory or Hd, you are out of luck.

I like this form factor. I agree that it isn't priced correctly in today's market, especially when compared to its Wintel cousins, but I use it to run Windows XP as well OS X. It is faster than any box I've bought from Dell, and I've owned a lot of them. The form factor is small and it allows for a logical entry point for users who don't want to go all the way to an iMac or MacBook or MB Pro. Maybe with Apple increasing their market share in laptops, the new strategy is to let go of the low end of the market and push for those extra $$s.

I'll continue to run mine until it dies. It is a perfect machine for a lightweight user (my wife) who wants iTunes, iPhoto, word processing, e-mail and Internet connectivity. Yeah, maybe you can get it for less, but you can't beat the form factor, the energy efficiency and reliability. You pay a bit more for a BMW than a VW EOS, but you get more too!

Yes Mel, its true that you should get certified memory, with a warranty, and that memory like that is not going to be the very cheapest out of all the memory you can get online.

The thing is, though, you can get very good quality memory, with a lifetime warranty even, and its STILL far cheaper than Apple Store upgrades, by a factor of three or four (!). Apple Store prices aren't even in the ballpark, I'm afraid. In fact, the ballpark is so far away Apple can't even see it anymore.

Trust me, out of fairness, I've tried coming up with some excuses in my head for Apple on this one, just to give them the benefit of the doubt, and there are no good ones. Apple is reaming 'convenience buyers', plain and simple (well, those and the buyers who just DON'T KNOW how much they could save). The only argument you can give Apple is the old, "Well, if you're too damn lazy to take the 5 minutes it takes to crack open your machine and slap some RAM in there, you DESERVE to get ripped off!" saw, which I've never found to be particularly compelling. I guess I always envisage a kindly grandma-type getting reamed in those situations, y'know, the kind who's just happy to get on those "Internets" from time to time.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Apple, but some things that they do aren't above board, sadly. And its not even a 'moral' thing, completely, its also just good business... because, in the end, its usually counter-productive to rip off your customers.

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As I sit here typing this reply on my Mac Mini, I am saddened at this prediction. It is the Mini that has allowed me to be introduced to the world of the Mac OS X. It is the Mini that has helped me to become a loyal customer of Apple. My household now possesses 3 iPod's, plus my Mini. My next computer is going to be a Mac laptop of some sort, when I will then give my Mini to my wife. I assume it will still be cooking along as it's been an extremely reliable system. At the time of purchase, I couldn't afford nor justify the expense of the other Macs, so I'd still be completely PC were it not for the Mini option. I hope they keep it as a more affordable alternative.

I'm not saying that I should have gotten certified memory, and I listened to his advice, and didn't.

The point he was making, was that organizations usually require it. It's actually cheaper for them, in the long run. When they have to install memory in dozens, hundreds, or thousands of machines, and then test each one, it actually can cost them more.


It's different for the technically inclined individuals such as those of us here (or at least, most of us here).

I haven't looked at Apple's memory prices recently, but the last time I did, after they lowered the prices, they were just about 50% more, which wasn't bad, considering. If a disparity such as you say is true now, then you are right, it's too expensive.


If those prices are correct, yeah.

But it isn't that most people are lazy (though some are), but rather that they are afraid. I've even offered, from time to time, to do it myself, but they are still afraid. It's still cheaper than going to a psychiatrist for weekly sessions.


I'm not sure I would say it isn't moral. I don't know their reasons. I don't like to make those kinds of assumptions.

So, I was checking out the Amazon Top Sellers for Computers and Add-ons and then clicked over to Movers and Shakers. After the strange-looking shoes and boots (huh?), and Compaq laptop, #5 was this link below.

http://www.amazon.com/Minipc-MP945-V...7?ie=UTF8&s=pc

They don't say much about specs on Amazon page, but you can go to their site to see more at http://minipc.aopen.com/Global/spec_945X.htm . Looks like they have 11 different models in four different categories.

I think specs like these are more what people are looking for in a redesigned Mac Mini or iCube.

Originally Posted by jasondwelsh
I think it was a brilliant move by Steve Jobs to leak a "rumor" of the Mini's demise to gauge people's reactions and help Apple guide its future plans for this device


It's a combination of geographical proximity and psychic ability.

Ah, I see.

Let me get this straight...you wont upgrade a G4 powerbook to a core2duo mb or mbp because of a USB modem that's smaller than the remote for my car and Jobs is out of touch with reality?

In 2007? Get real. Just attach it to the end of your phone cable that you SHOULD be bringing with you anyway and its like zero hassle and nearly zero weight/size.

Vinea

Exactly. They have already got Santa Rosa, Core 2 Duo, Blu Ray, 4GB Ram support, a TV Tuner, HDMI output, dual display output, TV output, USB ports on the front and a card slot.

http://minipc.aopen.com/Global/spec.htm

They even have a cube:

http://xc.aopen.com.tw/taiwan/

There's absolutely no reason why Apple couldn't have done this.

Apple do this a lot though. They bring out a really nice innovative product and they let it stagnate until it's worthless. I can see them doing the same thing with the iphone.

Well, someone at Apple must be out of touch with reality to charge $49 for that thing.

How big does a movie from iTunes get? I don't see them as something worthwhile for the budget conscious either. The player devices are expensive, there is no affordable rental option and there are plenty of DVDs available for cheaper or about as much but have actual features, some of them interesting and some of them useful to some people, such as subs.


I really haven't had much reason to burn dual layer, besides, the tests I've seen on the optical media sites weren't encouraging. I wouldn't trust them as an archival media.


So the buyer goes to the memory maker or drive maker to get the drive replaced. I accept this. Even swapping back in the original components should something else break, I still accept it because the likelihood of failure should be low. I'm not sure if it's of enough value to the individual to pay Apple's prices.


Should it be lost or damaged, that phone cable can probably be bought anywhere for a few dollars. I don't know how you'd replace the modem with the same ease, it's probably not an easy to find item if you are unfamiliar with the area you are in, and probably can't be found if it's an area low enough in population that doesn't have available broadband.


That's kind of a sad looking cube though.

I think you're right, waiting for the aTV/airport xtreme sized little computer/home server to be announced at WWDC.

By all means, go check out Apple's current RAM upgrade pricing. I think you'll be rather unpleasantly surprised.

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AppleTV Pro ??

The Mini might be replaced by an "AppleTV Pro", i.e. an ATV with all the features of both machines + a TV card and a remote keyboard+mouse = the perfect companion for your HD TV.

Sit in your coach and watch TV, when the commecials kick in you simply switch to "AppleTV-mode" to watch film trailers, then reach for the smallish keyboard (with the snap-on mouse) and toggle to "OSX-mode" for a little surfing and downloading and finally back again to the TV-channel you were watching.
No problem if you surfed a bit too long as the AppleTV Pro automatically (temporarily) records what you are watching - for REW and replay.

When a film you were watching on the TV ends you could pause the credits, look up the best songs and switch to iTunes store to buy them.
You see a Tarantino movie and decide to download all other films by him.
Al Gore makes you donate money to a "Save the Planet" foundation.
An Apple commercial makes you wanna surf past the Apple store.
While watching American Idol you could drop a vote by email.
Etc.

yessssss!

Hey, greetings to Salonica with the superb view to Mt. Olympus! Are you from there?

On topic, I am not sure if I would like to see what Kendoka suggests, since from his comments it seems that the "OSX-mode" would be a stripped-down OS X. If so, then such a device could not replace the Mac mini which, even though limited, is a complete computer package.

Hi, yes I am from there!

Nor I I am conform with this idea, however, so that we would see the entire lack of Mac mini, I would be reconciled with the idea of two products union, under the term that it will be a complete computer system, plus the ability of AppleTV.

Under this idea, could say that Apple will grow up profits, because will sell two products that are produced in one production line and the consumers will have one cheap but almighty MacTV

Am I dreaming?

The mini worked for people around me as expected. It was a cheap and easy way to get into the Mac-experience. This worked so well that it got the Mac spreaded in housholds for which otherwise the initial investment would have been too much. Housholds which were clinging to the known (Windows) because that was `what everybody uses'. The fact that there was a very cheap entry made all the difference and I know of one WIndows household which in the end went entirely Mac because of the initial impact of the mini.

Secondly, I personally have been waiting for Leopard to arrive to buy a new mini to act as my "family server". An XServe is just too powerful and noisy for that. The family server does not need to be powerful, nor does it need a monitor other than during setup and maintenance.

So let's hope the monitorless mini is not dead yet.

G

The Mac mini has been a godsend for my elderly in-laws. They had a PC and were constantly falling for the adware/spyware scams that popped up. I'd spend hours with anti-spyware programs, but could never get it really clean.

I made them get a Mac mini (they already had a monitor and mouse, but I wanted them to have an Apple keyboard) and they love it. They do all the web, e-mail and games they want and have no hassles like they did with the PC (and that means fewer hassles for me.) In fact, they like it so much, my father-in-law wants a laptop and I'm pointing him to a MacBook.

At work, I knew two committed PC users bought Mac minis because they were interested in OS X and wanted to get in as cheaply as possible. They were both highly impressed. One guy is doing great things with iMovie and the other loves GarageBand.

I've always thought the mini was a great way for PC users to dip their toes in the Mac water, and many would dive in on their next purchase with more expensive Macs. Also, I wanted to install one in my car.

Say it ain't so, Steve. Say it ain't so.

Say it is so, if something better is coming.

Apple designed the Mac Mini out of spite. It is Steve's way of saying "Fuck you" to everybody who dares to want something other than an imac. By providing a user-unfriendly enclosure, limited internal expansion, and withholding hardware updates, Apple purposely set up the Mac Mini to fail. If Apple decides to discontinue the Mini, they will put the blame on the customers. Apple will use the Mini's failure as "proof" that "nobody" wants a low end desktop, even though Apple never made an honest effort in the first place. It's like those software companies that make the Mac versions of their software totally crippled compared to the Windows version. And when Mac users don't buy it, the company uses that as an excuse to drop Mac support.

Agreed. I'm hoping for a mini-like machine with a MultiLane SATA port for connecting external drives, RAID, etc. A true home server. No more daisychained FireWire and USB!

And it needs to be cheaper. As else someone pointed out, current mini pricing is ridiculous. For a few hundred dollars more, why not get an iMac? The mini needs to be around $500.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the mini concept, just Apple's current implementation of it. Make it a true home server and it will sell. Price it well and it will sell. How about a miniRAID system to go along with it? It could hold 4-5 drives and offer various RAID levels for the home/small business user. This would be an awesome addition to the product line and, given our appetite for media files these days, sell quite well. In fact, sales would only get better as people need more storage.

Apple just needs to think outside the box a bit where the mini is concerned. We need a true home (and small biz) server offering and the mini could just be it - with a little effort.

-Rob

Wow! 300-400% percent more. Please provide example(s) with supportive links.

Thank you.

I agree with everything except that I don't think this is Steve's doing. I'd say it's the marketing folks holding him back from the cube he really wants. They'll say things like, we won't make as much money on a cube and it'll reduce Mac Pro sales and we tried it before and look at the losses we made and look at the amount of low quality displays we can shift by bundling them with the iMacs.


Yeah but it's still available to buy and functional. Obviously Apple would make one closer to this:

http://www.123macmini.com/macminicube/page/5.html

I would love to see your evidence. In the meantime, if I were to profile you based only on your last statement, I would have to guess that you are a flamming flame removed - before calling someone a name that implies that they have low intelligence, at least learn to spell "flaming" correctly.}

You make Steve Jobs sound like Niccolò Machiavelli. Some love the Mac Mini, and yet others think it was simply the wrong product for the low end market. I doubt Apple will blame anyone, but simply tout the latest and greatest new model Mac that takes its place, which I hope will be a Mac mini tower that could be built with two versions of the motherboard. One to replace the Mini and the other as a prosumer tower. I describe it more in future hardware.

I'm curious, why wouldn't you buy a desktop with a built-in screen? What's the downside? I love my iMac. No clunky tower under my desk, low noise, small footprint on the desk. I really don't see anything bad about the design, save the lack of expansion slots (which most users don't need/want anyway). You're using a laptop (a computer with a built-in screen), so how does the iMac not satisfy your needs? Just curious.

I agree to a point re: the Apple TV. Have you used one, though? I'm very impressed with the user experience. It blows everything else I've tried away. I'd like to see full 1080p support, but right now there's virtually no 1080p content, so what's the point? And even when Apple starts offering higher quality movies and TV shows on iTunes, it'll be a long time before everyone has enough bandwidth to transfer 1080p content.

In my mind, Apple TV is a good first offering. I use mine primarily for music. It blows my old Roku SoundBridge and SlimDevices's SqueezeBox away. For the same price, I get a far superior user experience, plus the ability to play video. So what's not to like? Right now the biggest disappointment for me is how long it takes to convert video to H.264 on my iMac G5. Glacial is the only word to describe it. Hopefully when I make the switch to an Intel Mac (when the next iMacs are released), things will improve.

I have no doubt that Apple will continue to improve the Apple TV. They're testing the waters right now. I'm hoping for more TV shows to be added to iTunes. As soon as they offer most of the shows I like, I'm cancelling my satellite service and buying all of my TV from iTunes. I love the idea of a la carte pricing and not having to pay for countless hours of programming that doesn't interest me. The Apple TV has a lot of potential, in my mind. I don't regret my purchase one bit - even though it's not *everything* I want it to be (yet).

The thing we have to remember is that people who sit around and post messages to Mac rumors/news websites aren't the majority of Apple's customers. I think Apple does a very good job of listening to customers. The thing is, they can't be all things to all people. Apple's product line covers most of the bases. Is there room for other machines that satisfy someone's (very narrow) needs? Sure. But what's the point?

Part of being an Apple customer (and I've been one for 25 years now) is accepting that Apple doesn't always deliver everything you want. You have a choice, though. There are plenty of PC makers out there who will satisfy your requirements. For a small niche of people, being part of the Apple product ecosystem means trading a few requirements for a much better user experience. And that's not about "listening to customers"; it's about market realities.

Some people are boombox fans and others are component stereo fans.

I had an iMac once and after a year, decided I needed a bigger screen. I had to get rid of the whole computer and reconfigure a new one. Now, I currently have a 23" display and plan to buy a 30" display this summer. These decisions should have absolutely nothing to do with the computer itself. I don't want to toss out the display when I get a new computer and I don't want to toss out the computer when I get a new display. It's really very simple.

There are many downsides:

1) When I dual monitor I typically will dual with the same screen...for a 24" WS that means I need to buy the hideously overpriced* iMac 24" or be stuck with a 20" and a 24".
2) I tend to keep my monitors 2 or 3 machine cycles. Can't do that with the iMac.
3) I tend to use a kvm since I typically have more than one box. Typically this means that I KVM to one monitor and then manually switch on the second if I want to.
4) I have a 30" ACD and I don't have space for a 20" monitor as well on my desktop.
5) If my monitor fails I can just send it in for repair. I have older monitors to use if need be.

All in all, I'd rather just get a MBP and a second monitor than live with an iMac.

I was waiting for an updated Mini to pair it with a Dell 2707WFP ($1,019) for a total of around $1800. For anything BUT games it would kick the butt of a 20" iMac for $300 more. There's no contest between a 27" and 20" monitor.

Losing the mini is a shame if true. If they made a mini with a 2.16Ghz merom and X1600 for $999 they'd sell practically NO iMacs IMHO.

Vinea

* You're better off getting the $1,499 20" iMac and adding a $569 Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP.

Fair enough, but I'd argue that the majority of consumers aren't really concerned with upgrading from a 23" display to a 30" one. Like I said, there's a small niche of people who want the latest and greatest everything, who want to live on the bleeding edge, who want extreme upgrade flexibility, etc. The vast majority of users, however, don't care. For them, the iMac is an amazing design - compact, somewhat portable, quiet, stylish, and still a very capable performer.

When the MB goes SantaRosa most folks would be better off with a MB + dock* + monitor than an iMac IMHO.

Vinea

* Dock

I don't disagree. The iMacs are very nice computers and Apple sells a lot of them. But I think you underestimate the number of people like me who don't want one.

To use another analogy, there are a lot of people who have a simple television in the corner of their living room. There are a LOT of others who have a TV monitor connected to a home theatre system with seven speakers, etc., etc. I feel most of those people would never be happy with an iMac as their computer and I think Mac market share helps demonstrate the truth to that.