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Ron Paul is a Republican candidate for the Presidential Nominee Position - Page 4

post #121 of 149
I have one word for all of you: MODERATION.

Franksargent says: Businesspeople acting like criminals, nope, never heard of that happening!

Jubelum says: People on endless welfare programs cheating the system and stealing from their fellow citizens, nope, never heard of that happening!

Obviously both of these things do happen, which is why we need systems in place to stop both of them. That's why we don't want an extremist government from either side, libertarian or liberal. We need laws to regulate business practices so that corporations don't fix prices or hire six-year-olds. We also need to make sure that our welfare program isn't a way of life, but merely a hand up to those who really need help.

We have to have moderation. No society composed of extremes will ever work. That's why a frothing maniac like Ron Paul will never get elected. Abolishing welfare? Abolishing the income tax? I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. Sometimes people need some help, because they just don't have the ability to survive on their own. That's the purpose of welfare. To help people get back on their feet. Maybe some people abuse it, but getting rid of it isn't the answer. Extremist solutions like this are just silly.
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post #122 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Then it is not libertarianism.

What hardeeharhar said.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #123 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Maybe we can make some progress here...

So, if I understand you correctly, the issue is that one group fears successful capitalists more than they fear the government? So the battle has been joined- the government versus successful people who can somehow threaten their fellow citizens.

Our government started out to ensure freedom. Today it is the number one destroyer of the same.

I wouldn't frame it with the language you use, but, basically, yes. The problem occurs when government is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the wealthy and powerful, so that government permits them to control everyone else. Throughout history, that has been the major threat to people's freedom, not taxing 2% of people's income to pay for food stamps.

I believe government exists to ensure people's liberties - this is done with military defense when necessary, by regulation of businesses, by providing a basic safety net, access to education, and a few other necessities. You guys seem to believe the central issues of liberty are reducing taxes a few % and allowing credit card companies to pillage as they please, whereas we believe the central issues are freedom from corporate dominance and ensuring life's necessities like education and health, so that people have the liberty to pursue happiness.
post #124 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I believe government exists to ensure people's liberties - this is done with military defense when necessary, by regulation of businesses, by providing a basic safety net, access to education, and a few other necessities. You guys seem to believe the central issues of liberty are reducing taxes a few % and allowing credit card companies to pillage as they please, whereas we believe the central issues are freedom from corporate dominance and ensuring life's necessities like education and health, so that people have the liberty to pursue happiness.

Well stated.
post #125 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I believe government exists to ensure people's liberties - this is done with military defense when necessary, by regulation of businesses, by providing a basic safety net, access to education, and a few other necessities. You guys seem to believe the central issues of liberty are reducing taxes a few % and allowing credit card companies to pillage as they please, whereas we believe the central issues are freedom from corporate dominance and ensuring life's necessities like education and health, so that people have the liberty to pursue happiness.

Hogwash! Utter, utter hogwash!

What you don't seem to get, BRussell, is that government exists to ensure people's liberties - this is done with military defense when necessary, by regulation of businesses, by providing a basic safety net, access to education, and a few other necessities. You guys seem to believe the central issues of liberty are reducing taxes a few % and allowing credit card companies to pillage as they please, whereas we believe the central issues are freedom from corporate dominance and ensuring life's necessities like education and health, so that people have the liberty to pursue happiness.



As for credit card companies...y'all oughta come out to Utah, where there are no predatory lending laws. It's horrible what these companies are doing.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #126 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I believe government exists to ensure people's liberties - this is done with military defense when necessary, by regulation of businesses, by providing a basic safety net, access to education, and a few other necessities. You guys seem to believe the central issues of liberty are reducing taxes a few % and allowing credit card companies to pillage as they please, whereas we believe the central issues are freedom from corporate dominance and ensuring life's necessities like education and health, so that people have the liberty to pursue happiness.

"You guys?"

There is nothing there I disagree with, minus the "you guys" grouping. You certainly will not find me supporting the corporate swine in credit card, insurance, and banking interests that are at the center of controlling our means. The "we's" goals are also goals that I have, so I'm not sure where you got your impression of my beliefs being so contrary to yours.

We need education that works, based in personal responsibility.
We need a basic social safety net, yep- "BASIC."
We need a defense of the nation.
We need to end corporate welfare in most situations.
We need fewer, but still some, regulations of business.
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post #127 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

What hardeeharhar said.

You guys need to get it through your heads: you can have libertarian approaches to problems, and not be in favor of purist implementation of the -ism. Surely you two are not this thick. \
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post #128 of 149
We're all a little bit libertarian, but there's nothing wrong with that...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #129 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

You guys need to get it through your heads: you can have libertarian approaches to problems, and not be in favor of purist implementation of the -ism. Surely you two are not this thick. \

What hardeeharhar said. But there's a lot of ground between "libertarian approaches to problems" and "let's do away with the nanny state."

I'm fairly libertarian about all kinds of things, but those tend to be matters that are arbitrary (drinking age, age of majority, age of consent, etc.)
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #130 of 149
We should all rebel against the tyranny of the zip code!
post #131 of 149
Well we already know Jubelum is not a pure libertarian, nor is Ron Paul. Unfortunately, Ron Paul leans way too far toward pure libertarianism for this or any country's own good.

And that's what this thread is all about.

As has been clearly argued here, we need government structures and programs quite simply to keep people from dying, as well as for countless other reasons. And the government needs some sort of income to support those structures and programs. There is no alternative short of anarchy.
post #132 of 149
Thread Starter 
Everyone, Ron Paul is a candida for the 'Republican' nomination in the forthcoming Presidential erection in the United States.

We should be discussing how he might look in a rayon negligé rather than discussing his 'policies'.

Off topic, this thread is a credit to these famous forums and we should all be patting each other on the back or fanny.
post #133 of 149
how are you hassan?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #134 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

Off topic, this thread is a credit to these famous forums and we should all be patting each other on the back or fanny.

And we all know which one you would prefer.
post #135 of 149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

And we all know which one you would prefer.

Do you know what 'fanny' means in Britland, sproutboy?
post #136 of 149
Aw shit. Is this like that "pants" vs "trousers" thing?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #137 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

Do you know what 'fanny' means in Britland, sproutboy?

Hmm. Is it another word for bollocks? Vitamin? Elevator?
post #138 of 149
The first time I went to London, there was a guy named "Randy" with us. Every time he was introduced, people would snicker.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #139 of 149
i have it on good authority that fanny refers to a unique part of the female anatomy involved in the reproductive process...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #140 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

i have it on good authority that fanny refers to a unique part of the female anatomy involved in the reproductive process...

Boobs?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #141 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Boobs?

Another part of the female anatomy used for reproductive purposes, you know like Fanny Hill!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #142 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Another part of the female anatomy used for reproductive purposes, you know like Fanny Hill!

I love that novel.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #143 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Another part of the female anatomy used for reproductive purposes, you know like Fanny Hill!

Benny's sister?

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GOA

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post #144 of 149
Thread Starter 
IT MEANS 'MINGE'!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOLLITY-LOL!

So what you call a 'fanny pack' in the United States of Dr Ron means 'Minge Pack' in Blighty!

We call it a 'bum bag'!

We really do lol
post #145 of 149


post #146 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

IT MEANS 'MINGE'!!!!!!!!!!!!

Minge? Really? No way, I can't believe it. Minge. (What's a minge?)

BTW, to get this back on topic, you know how some people like to nickname their private parts? I call mine my little "Ron Paul."
post #147 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Minge? Really? No way, I can't believe it. Minge. (What's a minge?)

BTW, to get this back on topic, you know how some people like to nickname their private parts? I call mine my little "Ron Paul."

I call mine the "Libertarian".
post #148 of 149
Thread Starter 
I call mine 'Orbitrox the Peninator Whose Every Decree I Am Bound to Follow Like a Slave Ron Paul, Dr.'
post #149 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Minge? Really? No way, I can't believe it. Minge. (What's a minge?)

BTW, to get this back on topic, you know how some people like to nickname their private parts? I call mine my little "Ron Paul."

Emphasis on 'little'.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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