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We're going to have to attack Iran

post #1 of 207
Thread Starter 
Oops, he did it again:

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...ype=RSS&rpc=22

Add to this President Tom and company charging three Iranian-Americans with spying, and their recent detention of the Brits. Now let's review:

1. Iran defies UN mandates on its nuke program
2. Iran takes British hostages
3. President Tom repeatedly calls for Israel's destruction.
4. Iran charges civilains with espionage, detains them.
5. Iran funds anti-US forces in Iraq, kidnaps US soldiers.


Let me say it again: I don't want a war. I really don't. But I think we're going to have no choice very soon. President Tom cannot be allowed to do what he is doing. I know many here on the boards are so distrustful of the Bush Adiministration and opposed to war that you'll disagree. But look at the situation. Something has to give. We, the Western World, cannot allow this maniac to develop the bomb. He must be stopped. Clearly diplomacy is not only failing, it is a joke to the Iranians.

We're going to have to do this the hard way. Just my opinion. If you disagree, I'd be interested to know why specifically...and what solutions you propose.

SDW
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post #2 of 207
who the hell is president tom?
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post #3 of 207
With what army?
post #4 of 207
perhaps we should just nuke them.

that'll show the world we mean business.

(i am sure the irony will be lost on some)
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post #5 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Let me say it again: I don't want a war. I really don't.

But the frustration is really getting to me.....I mean I've been re-running the old Iraq vids from Fox and Cnn and even with the jumbo kleenex pack and back issues of "Soldier of Fortune" it just somehow doesn't hit the spot.....
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post #6 of 207
So Sego, is he being "mistranslated" again?
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #7 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

So Sego, is he being "mistranslated" again?

Haven't read the original. Can't say. Will look into it.

I take it from your use of quotes you believe he was not being mis-translated on the 'wipe off map' quote?

That just makes you stupd.

To believe Memri - proven liars.
To believe third hand reports about a language you have no idea of whatsoever.

Like if a top official in Teheran who spoke no English relied on Iranian propganda dept translations of Bush's speeches and preferred them over the versions of fluent speakers...

I'd call that pretty stupid wouldn't you?

I guess not on reflection...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #8 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Haven't read the original. Can't say. Will look into it.

I take it from your use of quotes you believe he was not being mis-translated on the 'wipe off map' quote?

That just makes you stupd.

To believe Memri - proven liars.
To believe third hand reports about a language you have no idea of whatsoever.

Like if a top official in Teheran who spoke no English relied on Iranian propganda dept translations of Bush's speeches and preferred them over the versions of fluent speakers...

I'd call that pretty stupid wouldn't you?

I guess not on reflection...

You're such an apologist it makes me sick. Ahmadinejad agreed with those who say Israel should be wiped off the map. That's what happened. No mistranslation by the Evil Bush Administration. That's what he said. Period.
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post #9 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

With what army?

Ahh, the Army is Broken line. Nice. Also, misguided, naive and rhetorical....

If you want to honestly talk about how it would be done, that's a different subject. I would think it would be a massive air and sea campaign. We definitely have the air power to do that. In my opinion it would be a mistake to just take out the nuclear facilities. They would retalitate in every way possible. We would therefore target the nuke facilities, military istallations, command and control and dual-use facilties across the country. A massive air attack lasting several weeks would be required.
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post #10 of 207


Can't we all just get along?

Lots of stupidity going around on both sides...
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post #11 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You're such an apologist it makes me sick. Ahmadinejad agreed with those who say Israel should be wiped off the map. That's what happened. No mistranslation by the Evil Bush Administration. That's what he said. Period.

Well, people who get their rocks off on murder make me sick so I guess we're even. Except I am not calling for mass-murder to jerk myself off to and lying to make it all ok.

Once and for all - please stop lying. Read ny sig - here I will repeat:

Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad

One more time - although you won't accept it because of chronic brain-dead stupidity, a racist hatred or most likely both- this means:

the imam said the regime occupying Jerusalem will eventually disappear from history

No map. No wiping off. No mention of Israel - to paraphrase our pal Groverat STOP FUCKING LYING.

You'll get your deaths. Don't worry - any moron who you need to convince is on board already. Give it up.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #12 of 207
Sounds like a case of semantics to me.

Quote:
the regime occupying Jerusalem

Israel?

Quote:
eventually disappear from history

Wiped out?

No racist here, but that's the way I read it. Hard to say for sure when taken out of context though.
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post #13 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Sounds like a case of semantics to me.

Israel?

Wiped out?

No racist here, but that's the way I read it. Hard to say for sure when taken out of context though.

Not really.

'Wiped out' would imply a call for active intervention to make this happen.

'Eventually' - as is actually used - conveys patience as the appropriate option safe in the knowledge that all tyrannical regimes eventually implode - the words were initially (in Khomeini's case whom he is quoting) meant to give comfort that the tyrants would eventually disappear.

Again, a distinction is made between 'Israel' and the 'Zionist regime' - it is the Zionist regime that is being referred to and not the State of Israel.

But let's get back on-topic. The issue here is that a poster has essentiually called for the invasion of a sovereign State that has not attacked the US and is willing to accept - in fact eagerly wishes for - the consequent murder of innocent civilians in that State.

I think we need to talk about that.

It is is fairly representative of the opinions of the US leadership at the present time and as such is prima facie evidence of the sick, evil and insanely rabid lunatics that have somehow taken control of the asylum and are spreading their cancer like a contagion.

We need to quarantine them.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #14 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oops, he did it again:

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...ype=RSS&rpc=22

Add to this President Tom and company charging three Iranian-Americans with spying, and their recent detention of the Brits. Now let's review:

1. Iran defies UN mandates on its nuke program
2. Iran takes British hostages
3. President Tom repeatedly calls for Israel's destruction.
4. Iran charges civilains with espionage, detains them.
5. Iran funds anti-US forces in Iraq, kidnaps US soldiers.


Let me say it again: I don't want a war. I really don't. But I think we're going to have no choice very soon. President Tom cannot be allowed to do what he is doing. I know many here on the boards are so distrustful of the Bush Adiministration and opposed to war that you'll disagree. But look at the situation. Something has to give. We, the Western World, cannot allow this maniac to develop the bomb. He must be stopped. Clearly diplomacy is not only failing, it is a joke to the Iranians.

We're going to have to do this the hard way. Just my opinion. If you disagree, I'd be interested to know why specifically...and what solutions you propose.

SDW

Get real! We're not going to attack Iran!

Bush has already been down this road and has shot his wad ur....so to speak.

This isn't an open option for him any more.
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #15 of 207
Attack Iran?

Meh, we would be smarter to trade weapons for oil and let them and the Israel have at each other. I mean, isn't that what everyone wants deep down inside?

At least this way we would make it a little fair for both sides. Wouldn't be much of a show considering we have been loading Israel up with the cool shit for decades.

"We give you cool boom boom stick....in trade you give us all your oil"

There settled and everyone is happy. Sit back on the beaches, break out the shades, and watch the BBQ from here.


I do love a good fireworks show.
post #16 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It is is fairly representative of the opinions of the US leadership at the present time and as such is prima facie evidence of the sick, evil and insanely rabid lunatics that have somehow taken control of the asylum and are spreading their cancer like a contagion.

We need to quarantine them.

I agree with you there.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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post #17 of 207
I don't think we'll ever attack. Until the welts from Iraq go away, we are back to containment, sanctions, etc.

We can do a lot of economic damage to that country, if we play our cards 'right.'

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and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #18 of 207
All I know is that Karl Rove got a hard-on when he read this thread.
post #19 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


1. Iran defies UN mandates on its nuke program

The U.S. media tells us that Iran may be the next target of U.S. aggression. The anticipated excuse is Irans alleged nuclear weapons program. William Clark tells us that economic reasons may have more to do with U.S. concerns over Iran than any weapons of mass destruction.

In mid-2003 Iran broke from tradition and began accepting eurodollars as payment for its oil exports from its E.U. and Asian customers. Saddam Hussein attempted a similar bold step back in 2000 and was met with a devastating reaction from the U.S. Iraq now has no choice about using U.S. dollars for oil sales (Censored 2004 #19). However, Iraq's plan to open an international oil exchange market for trading oil in the euro currency is a much larger threat to U.S. dollar supremacy than Iraqs switch to euros.

Quote:
2. Iran takes British hostages

Depends on who you believe.

Quote:
3. President Tom repeatedly calls for Israel's destruction.

Experts confirm that Iran's president did not call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'. Reports that he did serve to strengthen western hawks.

Quote:
4. Iran charges civilians with espionage, detains them.

U.S. Detains Two Iranians In Iraq
Two Others Released Who Had Diplomatic Immunity; Iraqi President 'Unhappy' About Incident


Quote:
5. Iran funds anti-US forces in Iraq, kidnaps US soldiers.

US funds terror groups to sow chaos in Iran

Your second assertion ("kidnaps US soldiers") is false.

But I guess the course has been made. The neocon/zionist opinion is strong. Fine, bomb Iran. Let all of the Middle East go to hell. I never voted for Bush and his cabal of douchebags. So my conscience is clear.
post #20 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

With what army?

With what money?
What if the Chinese won't loan us the funds for more war?
post #21 of 207



Cyclone Gonu


Quote:
There is TC Gonu, unusually powerful and unusually far to the northwest--and it is headed towards the northwest. Thus, the first land in the path of Gonu, as it is now moving, would be easternmost Oman. And this is where the latest JTWC advisory takes Gonu--ashore southeast of Masqat. As far as numerical forecast models, the GFS is still handling Gonu poorly, but the ECMWF, which has been remarkably prescient on this amazing storm, is still taking a powerful low ashore in SE Oman--and even into interior eastern Arabia. I cannot rule out extreme, unusual weather in UAE, Qatar and Saudi Arabia to at least Al Ahsa and the southern/middle Najd (Riyadh).
post #22 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Well, people who get their rocks off on murder make me sick so I guess we're even. Except I am not calling for mass-murder to jerk myself off to and lying to make it all ok.

Once and for all - please stop lying. Read ny sig - here I will repeat:

Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad

One more time - although you won't accept it because of chronic brain-dead stupidity, a racist hatred or most likely both- this means:

the imam said the regime occupying Jerusalem will eventually disappear from history

No map. No wiping off. No mention of Israel - to paraphrase our pal Groverat STOP FUCKING LYING.

You'll get your deaths. Don't worry - any moron who you need to convince is on board already. Give it up.

OK, tell you what...we'll never agree on this point, so I'll just let it go. He has still called for Israel's end on multiple occasions, and done all the other things I've mentioned as well. The larger point is he wants Israel gone and is likely developing nuclear weapons. At the least he is defying the UN on his program, taking hostages, and generally poking the bear.
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post #23 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Get real! We're not going to attack Iran!

Bush has already been down this road and has shot his wad ur....so to speak.

This isn't an open option for him any more.

What a pathetic post.
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post #24 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

OK, tell you what...we'll never agree on this point, so I'll just let it go. He has still called for Israel's end on multiple occasions, and done all the other things I've mentioned as well. The larger point is he wants Israel gone and is likely developing nuclear weapons. At the least he is defying the UN on his program, taking hostages, and generally poking the bear.

You're poking the bear. No links to sources only conjecture. You have a great imagination.
post #25 of 207
Thread Starter 
seg:

Quote:
But let's get back on-topic. The issue here is that a poster has essentiually called for the invasion of a sovereign State that has not attacked the US and is willing to accept - in fact eagerly wishes for - the consequent murder of innocent civilians in that State.

I think we need to talk about that.

It is is fairly representative of the opinions of the US leadership at the present time and as such is prima facie evidence of the sick, evil and insanely rabid lunatics that have somehow taken control of the asylum and are spreading their cancer like a contagion.

We need to quarantine them.

Ahh, more segovious Bizarro World Rhetoric.

The real question, Mr. seg, is whether or not Iran should be allowed to defy the will of the international community, take hostages, threaten Israel and develop both nuclear power and potentially nuclear weapons. What I am saying is that in my judgement I don't see the diplomatic route working here. Things are getting worse. And, as much as I don't want a war with Iran (believe me...I do NOT) I also think that we must do whatever needed to prevent Iran from acquiring nukes. If that's war, so be it. I'm not really "calling" for anything. I'm saying that it's what's going to be come neccessary.

I also asked for other solutions. I've heard none. Zero. What I do hear is a bunch of anti-Bush, anti-Israeli CRAP...coupled with a stupid semantics debate about the term "wiped off." Typical .
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post #26 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

The U.S. media tells us that Iran may be the next target of U.S. aggression. The anticipated excuse is Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program. William Clark tells us that economic reasons may have more to do with U.S. concerns over Iran than any weapons of mass destruction.

In mid-2003 Iran broke from tradition and began accepting eurodollars as payment for its oil exports from its E.U. and Asian customers. Saddam Hussein attempted a similar bold step back in 2000 and was met with a devastating reaction from the U.S. Iraq now has no choice about using U.S. dollars for oil sales (Censored 2004 #19). However, Iraq's plan to open an international oil exchange market for trading oil in the euro currency is a much larger threat to U.S. dollar supremacy than Iraq’s switch to euros.



Depends on who you believe.



Experts confirm that Iran's president did not call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'. Reports that he did serve to strengthen western hawks.



U.S. Detains Two Iranians In Iraq
Two Others Released Who Had Diplomatic Immunity; Iraqi President 'Unhappy' About Incident




US funds terror groups to sow chaos in Iran

Your second assertion ("kidnaps US soldiers") is false.

But I guess the course has been made. The neocon/zionist opinion is strong. Fine, bomb Iran. Let all of the Middle East go to hell. I never voted for Bush and his cabal of douchebags. So my conscience is clear.

1. Oh, I see. So it's All About Oil (TM)! Gotcha. I suppose we should just ignore all of Iran's other actions, and blame it on the Warmongering US.

2. Wow, you've got to be shitting me there. The evidence is conclusive. They took hostages. Please.

3. Oh stop. If Stalin was misquoted when he said "A single death is a tragedy, are million deaths is a statistic" and a word was altered here or there, he'd still be Joe Stalin. President Tom is an anti-semite who wishes to see the West destroyed. That's the important part, not some bullshit debate about word choice and translation.

4. So? And this equates to taking hostages outside of one's territory?

5. Let me guess. MEK. That's been discussed and debunked as well.

One has to wonder how your mind operates. I suppose it is on the same wavelength as seg's. Then US is the one instigating, not the UN-defying, hostage taking, nuclear power developing while sitting on a trillion barrels of oil, anti-semetic rogue state of Iran. I see.
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post #27 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

One has to wonder how your mind operates. I suppose it is on the same wavelength as seg's. Then US is the one instigating, not the UN-defying, hostage taking, nuclear power developing while sitting on a trillion barrels of oil, anti-semetic rogue state of Iran. I see.

You said it!

And please use your spell check, you may have some more credibility here.

A teacher for chrissakes.
post #28 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

You're poking the bear. No links to sources only conjecture. You have a great imagination.

Sources? What, are we getting back to the "wiped off the map" debate again now? Don't play dumb. You know what he's said. You know what he's done. You know what Iran is doing. You know they're defying UN mandates and taking hostages. You know how anti-Western the leadership is.

Stop being an obtuse dickhead. If you think war is a bad idea or not the only option to deal with them, say so and list the alternatives. If you think we should let them have it and do whatever they want because they're a <sniffle> Sovereign State, and They Didn't Hurt Anyone, then at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that only the West has to abide by the UN and international will. At least you wouldn't sound like such a sniveling, ranting anti-Bushie then.
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post #29 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

You said it!

And please use your spell check, you may have some more credibility here.

A teacher for chrissakes.

Other than the word "then" which should have been "the," I fail to see your problem. If you're taking issue with "trillion," I kind of thought you might have the intelligence to realize I was exaggerating.
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post #30 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Other than the word "then" which should have been "the," I fail to see your problem.

Quote:
anti-semetic

anti-semitic

Quote:
If you're taking issue with "trillion," I kind of thought you might have the intelligence to realize I was exaggerating.

No, not "trillion". "Oil".

As far a talking is concerned...



U.S. engages in rare talks with Iran on Iraq security

Quote:
BAGHDAD: The United States and Iran held their most high-profile bilateral talks in nearly three decades on Monday, adhering to an agenda that focused strictly on the war in Iraq and on how the two nations, bitter adversaries, could work to improve conditions here.

Another is scheduled in a month I believe. Talks take time. A lot of time. And President Imadinnerjacket? Good description. He is a mouthpiece for the Iranian Mullahs who unfortunately do desire talks with the U.S.. But the people elected President Imadinnerjacket. Sticky situation. I honestly think what the U.S. is doing is the right thing. Beef up the Navy in the Gulf, flex some muscles and bring them to the table. Unfortunately, the nuclear thing will never be resolved until Iran can prove that they do not want the technology for defense (which would take them 3-4 years alone to build one missile).

If we do "attack" Iran it will be done exactly like this. Wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli's volunteer either. But their political clown-car is wrapped around a tree right now. So either U.S. Naval missile attacks or air attacks. We don't have the boots to do a land offensive.
post #31 of 207
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #32 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski View Post

bring'em on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--K3X6rptE4

Didn't some other idiot say that once before?

Anyway, good luck. Don't forget your parachute, tewwowist identification manual and "I Heart Salman Rushdie" T-shirt.....

Go get 'em tiger...... shoot a granny for me......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #33 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski View Post

bring'em on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--K3X6rptE4

Ah, no. That will be only effective if we let the terrorists come over here. Iraqi infrastructure can't handle wheelchairs at this time (but we should be turning a corner on that road soon).
post #34 of 207
post #35 of 207
wow

--------------------
"some catch on faster than others"
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post #36 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Now that's better!

Oh dear lord that frightens the shit out of me.
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post #37 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Now that's better!

Dang - all that wasted ammo!

They should send the little girl in the pink tank top to Guantanamo to show us what she can REALLY do!
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post #38 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

I honestly think what the U.S. is doing is the right thing.

I love it when you guys can't even bring yourselves to say that Bush is doing the right thing.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #39 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I love it when you guys can't even bring yourselves to say that Bush is doing the right thing.


We'll see. We'll see. So far his foreign policy has been a shambles.
post #40 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I love it when you guys can't even bring yourselves to say that Bush is doing the right thing.


I love it when Xians praise mass murder as the right thing

Oh wait...no I don't...I think it fucking stinks......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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