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We're going to have to attack Iran - Page 2

post #41 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

anti-semitic



No, not "trillion". "Oil".

As far a talking is concerned...



U.S. engages in rare talks with Iran on Iraq security



Another is scheduled in a month I believe. Talks take time. A lot of time. And President Imadinnerjacket? Good description. He is a mouthpiece for the Iranian Mullahs who unfortunately do desire talks with the U.S.. But the people elected President Imadinnerjacket. Sticky situation. I honestly think what the U.S. is doing is the right thing. Beef up the Navy in the Gulf, flex some muscles and bring them to the table. Unfortunately, the nuclear thing will never be resolved until Iran can prove that they do not want the technology for defense (which would take them 3-4 years alone to build one missile).

If we do "attack" Iran it will be done exactly like this. Wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli's volunteer either. But their political clown-car is wrapped around a tree right now. So either U.S. Naval missile attacks or air attacks. We don't have the boots to do a land offensive.

OMG! A typo! Seriously...that's pathetic that you would even see the need to point that out. I honestly don't undestand why you are taking issue with my use of the word "oil." Perhaps you could explain to stupid SDW why Oil is different than "oil."

Talks take time: Uh, that's the point. That's what President Tom wants...time to stall the UN and West. And "talk" is only valuable when there is something to talk about. Iran says "no" and we say "yes." Then we say "black" and they say "white" and take some more hostages and send the kiddies off to watch the Death to America Special on TV. Maybe something good will come of it though...that would be good.

I don't agree an attack would look the same as Iraq in 1981. Their facilities are better protected and literally dug-in. Iran also has more retalliatory capbilility, which would need to be dealt with.
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post #42 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Now that's better!

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post #43 of 207
SDW,

Trumptman is a total idiot, you I thought had a bit more insight.
Ideology aside, what benefit would there be in attacking Iran.

Have you thought about the aftermath?

Will the Middle East be a better place?

Will Arabs, Muslims feel better about the US.

Will gas prices come down.

Will Israel be safer, more secure.

Will Bush's poll numbers rise.

Will you feel better.

Will Putin feel better.
post #44 of 207
hahaha... hillbilly's make for great entertainment...
post #45 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

OMG! A typo! Seriously...that's pathetic that you would even see the need to point that out. I honestly don't undestand why you are taking issue with my use of the word "oil." Perhaps you could explain to stupid SDW why Oil is different than "oil."

Dude, I put oil in a sentence. With a period after it. Oil. You didn't spell anti-semitic correctly.

Quote:
Talks take time: Uh, that's the point. That's what President Tom wants...time to stall the UN and West. And "talk" is only valuable when there is something to talk about. Iran says "no" and we say "yes." Then we say "black" and they say "white" and take some more hostages and send the kiddies off to watch the Death to America Special on TV. Maybe something good will come of it though...that would be good.

Can't we all just get along?



Apathy will get you nowhere. Take it from a liberal.

Quote:
I don't agree an attack would look the same as Iraq in 1981. Their facilities are better protected and literally dug-in. Iran also has more retalliatory capbilility, which would need to be dealt with.

Mmph. Retaliatory capability. Their only capability is certainly manpower right now. They could have major whoop-ass for the Naval fleet. We might have a good fight with their air force . If they start something, we will strike back with air power like this...



Cool tactical nuclear weapons.

So, I would hope that there can be dialog and negotiations. Because if we do this, we are seriously fucked. I wouldn't want to see Iran's people get what we gave the Iraqi people. Most of them are decent people. Like the Iraqi people, before we bombed them into the stone age.

Relax, take a deep breath and repeat after me...



President Imagottatracksuit
President Imagottatracksuit
President Imagottatracksuit
post #46 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oops, he did it again:

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...ype=RSS&rpc=22

Add to this President Tom and company charging three Iranian-Americans with spying, and their recent detention of the Brits. Now let's review:

1. Iran defies UN mandates on its nuke program

Iran has every right to defy UN-mandates, since the UN has no legal right to restrict Iran's nuclear program, as long as Iran keeps strict to the non-proliferation-act, that it signed to. That act doesn't prohibit Uran-enrichment, and therefore Iran is legally right to pursue the enrichment, as long as the enrichment is not done to weapon-grade-level. The IAEA's job is to control and make sure, that weapon-grade-level-enrichment is not pursued, that's all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

2. Iran takes British hostages

Even if the british hostages were unlawfully emprisoned, which is still a controversy, they were released already uncoditionally and can therefore not serve as a justification for any future actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

3. President Tom repeatedly calls for Israel's destruction.

No, he wishes that the regime occupying Al-Quds/Jerusalem would vanish, and more, he is actually sure that this will happen in the future, sort of part of God's fate and plan.

Here is the full translation of Ahmadinejad's speech regarding Israel:

Quote:
\tI thank God that I have had the opportunity to participate in the event today �.

We need to examine the true origins of the issue of Palestine: is it a fight between a group of Muslims and non-Jews? Is it a fight between Judaism and other religions? Is it the fight of one country with another country? Is it the fight of one country with the Arab world? Is it a fight over the land of Palestine? I guess the answer to all these questions is �no.�

The establishment of the occupying regime of Qods [Jerusalem]was a major move by the world oppressor [ the United States] against the Islamic world. The situation has changed in this historical struggle. Sometimes the Muslims have won and moved forward and the world oppressor was forced to withdraw.

Unfortunately, the Islamic world has been withdrawing in the past 300 years. I do not want to examine the reasons for this, but only to review the history. The Islamic world lost its last defenses in the past 100 years and the world oppressor established the occupying regime. Therefore the struggle in Palestine today is the major front of the struggle of the Islamic world with the world oppressor and its fate will decide the destiny of the struggles of the past several hundred years.

The Palestinian nation represents the Islamic nation [Umma] against a system of oppression, and thank God, the Palestinian nation adopted Islamic behavior in an Islamic environment in their struggle and so we have witnessed their progress and success.

I need to thank you for choosing this valuable title for the conference.

Many who are disappointed in the struggle between the Islamic world and the infidels have tried to spread the blame. They say it is not possible to have a world without the United States and Zionism. But you know that this is a possible goal and slogan.

Let�s take a step back. We had a hostile regime in this country which was undemocratic, armed to the teeth and, with SAVAK, its security apparatus of SAVAK [the intelligence bureau of the Shah of Iran�s government] watched everyone. An environment of terror existed. When our dear Imam [Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder the Iranian revolution] said that the regime must be removed, many of those who claimed to be politically well-informed said it was not possible. All the corrupt governments were in support of the regime when Imam Khomeini started his movement. All the Western and Eastern countries supported the regime even after the massacre of September 7 [1978] and said the removal of the regime was not possible. But our people resisted and it is 27 years now that we have survived without a regime dependant on the United States. The tyranny of the East and the West over the world must should end, but weak people who can see only what lies in front of them cannot believe this.

Who could believe that one day we could witness the collapse of the Eastern Empire? But we have seen its fall during our lives and it collapsed in such a way that we have to refer to libraries because no trace of it is left. Imam [Khomeini] said Saddam must go and he said he would grow weaker than anyone could imagine. Now you see the man who spoke with such arrogance ten years ago that one would have thought he was immortal, is being tried in his own country in handcuffs and shackles by those who he believed supported him and with whose backing he committed his crimes.

Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks. For over 50 years the world oppressor tried to give legitimacy to the occupying regime and it has taken measures in this direction to stabilize it. About 27 or 28 years ago they took a major step and unfortunately one of the leading countries made a mistake which we hope will correct it.[an apparent reference to the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel].

Recently they [the Israelis] tried a new trick. They want to show the evacuation from the Gaza strip, which was imposed on them by Palestinians, as a final victory for the Palestinians and end the issue of Palestine with the excuse of establishing a Palestinian government next to themselves. Today, they want to involve Palestinians with mischief and trick them into fighting with one another over political positions so that they would drop the issue of Palestine.

They want to convince some of the Islamic countries that, since they evacuated the Gaza strip with good intentions, the legitimacy of their corrupt regime should be recognized. I hope Palestinian groups and people are aware of this trick.

The issue of Palestine is not over at all. It will be over the day a Palestinian government, which belongs to the Palestinian people, comes to power; the day that all refugees return to their homes; a democratic government elected by the people comes to power. Of course those who have come from far away to plunder this land have no right to choose for this nation.

I hope the Palestinian people will remain alert and aware in the same way that they have continued their struggle in the past ten years.

If we get through this brief period successfully, the path of eliminating the occupying regime will be easy and down-hill.

I warn all leaders of the Islamic world that they should be aware of this trick. Anyone who recognizes this regime because of the pressure of the World oppressor, or because of naivet� or selfishness, will be eternally disgraced and will burn in the fury of the Islamic nations.

Those who are sitting in closed rooms cannot decide for the Islamic nation and cannot allow this historical enemy to exist in the heart of the Islamic world.

Source: http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/ref/jadspeech.html

So what does Ahmadinejad think about Israel? Namely, that the zionistic regime in Israel must and can be eradicated just like the Shah's regime in Iran was eradicated, and just like the communistic regime in the Soviet-Union was eradicated, and just like Saddam Hussein's regime was eradicated.



But what does Ahmadinejad see as the ideal solution after Israel's regime is abolished. He obviously seeks the return of all palestinian refuggees to their land and homes in the area that is now Israel, and the establishment of a democratic state, but also the expellation of those that came "from far away to plunder this land", hinting at non-arabic jews.

He views Israel's regime over Al-Quds, as an oppressive regime, that was installed with the help of the great oppressor, namely the US, and takes the same line of thought as his hero Khomeini.

Khomeini identified the US as the current great oppressor in the world, dictating policy, economy... to the world and bullying, oppressing and persecuting other nations that strive to be independent.

So the goal for Iran and for all muslims, was according to Khomeini, to defeat the US, so that the world can gain its liberty and dignity back.

Khomeini made sure to make a distinction between America, as the oppressive world-regime , and America as a nation, and thought only the destruction of the former.

Here is a link to Khomeini's sayings on Israel and America:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Spa/7220/khom-quds.html




Quote:
4. Iran charges civilains with espionage, detains them.

And so does the US, and considering the openly admitted US-plan to destabilise Iran's regime in any way possible, it is no wonder that Iran's regime became paranoid.


Quote:
5. Iran funds anti-US forces in Iraq, kidnaps US soldiers.

The US likewise funds anti-mullah-forces in Iran, including terrorists.

Nightcrawler
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post #47 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I love it when Xians praise mass murder as the right thing

Most people on the boards already realize you're a compulsive liar, but I just thought I'd bump this for the benefit of those who aren't sure yet.

My post clearly quoted Artman's reference to talks with Iran as being the right thing to do.
You felt compelled to dishonestly twist that to mean I was somehow advocating war.

You are truly pathetic.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #48 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Most people on the boards already realize you're a compulsive liar, but I just thought I'd bump this for the benefit of those who aren't sure yet.

My post clearly quoted Artman's reference to talks with Iran as being the right thing to do.
You felt compelled to dishonestly twist that to mean I was somehow advocating war.

You are truly pathetic.

As I said to your role-model Grover (he does the 'liar' meme so much better than you btw and his position is not that of a hypocrite) we are all liars Frank. Yes, even you!

So we are both the same - the main difference being that you even lie about being a liar!

Still, that's the history of the pathetic and weak ersatz spirtuality you so blindly sunlimate yourself to - but you do follow it to the letter like a good little sheep so it may count for something sometime...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #49 of 207
So you feel justified in twisting other people's words because you believe everyone's a liar?
That is the absolute definition of pathetic spirituality.

You don't understand even the basics of the doctrines you claim to believe in.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #50 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

So you feel justified in twisting other people's words because you believe everyone's a liar?
That is the absolute definition of pathetic spirituality.

You don't understand even the basics of the doctrines you claim to believe in.

Well Frank you are the liar here not me.

This statement:

Quote:
You don't understand even the basics of the doctrines you claim to believe in.

is a lie.

You claim I am twisting words. That is a lie. I just made a statement. If I want to make it personal to you Frank I assure you I know how to do it and you'll be in no doubt.

That's why I put a smiley also btw - it means it is NOT SERIOUS

Your attemtp to treat it as serious is yet another lie.

Stop it.

You'll get a black mark off the big guy with the beard.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #51 of 207
It's a mistake to take Sego for anything beyond entertainment. Get your chuckle from him and move on. He is not meant to be taken seriously.
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #52 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski View Post

It's a mistake to take Sego for anything beyond entertainment. Get your chuckle from him and move on. He is not meant to be taken seriously.

Exactly. Not here anyway. Which is exactly as it should be because AI is 99% full of brain-dead morons which in turn is exactly why no-one here should not be taken seriously.

Anyone with an interest in Islam/Iran or Theology could always extend their serious side in my Religious Studies University Dept - except of course they couldn't..... because they would never be allowed in!

Best to keep going with the little right-wing wankfest you've created right here - that way you can claim black is white and a moron is a genius without fear of being exposed.

Everyone's a winner!

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #53 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

Iran has every right to defy UN-mandates, since the UN has no legal right to restrict Iran's nuclear program, as long as Iran keeps strict to the non-proliferation-act, that it signed to. That act doesn't prohibit Uran-enrichment, and therefore Iran is legally right to pursue the enrichment, as long as the enrichment is not done to weapon-grade-level. The IAEA's job is to control and make sure, that weapon-grade-level-enrichment is not pursued, that's all.
Nightcrawler

Thanks Nightcrawler, you spelled it all out well. But SDW is defeated...never to return.
post #54 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Exactly. Not here anyway. Which is exactly as it should be because AI is 99% full of brain-dead morons which in turn is exactly why no-one here should not be taken seriously.

Anyone with an interest in Islam/Iran or Theology could always extend their serious side in my Religious Studies University Dept - except of course they couldn't..... because they would never be allowed in!

Best to keep going with the little right-wing wankfest you've created right here - that way you can claim black is white and a moron is a genius without fear of being exposed.

Everyone's a winner!



This place right wing Sego? The right wing token here are brought in for entertainment muck like Christians were brought into the Coliseum.

Im sure I couldnt get into your University Sego. I have never been much for schoolin
"some catch on faster than others"
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post #55 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski View Post

This place right wing Sego? The right wing token here are brought in for entertainment muck like Christians were brought into the Coliseum.

Im sure I couldnt get into your University Sego. I have never been much for schoolin

Well, maybe we can run some sort of fast-track for the most deserving case such as yourself; society can only benefit!

Do you really not see this place as right-wing? Odd...seems almost overwhelmingly to me...just look at this thread title for example.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #56 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

SDW,

Trumptman is a total idiot, you I thought had a bit more insight.
Ideology aside, what benefit would there be in attacking Iran.

Have you thought about the aftermath?

Will the Middle East be a better place?

Will Arabs, Muslims feel better about the US.

Will gas prices come down.

Will Israel be safer, more secure.

Will Bush's poll numbers rise.

Will you feel better.

Will Putin feel better.


First, I know trumpt and I can tell you he is a very intelligent guy. He has a balanced and reasoned perspective on most events. You may disagree with what he says. That doesn't make him "dumb" at all.

Secondly, of course I've thought of the aftermath. I'm saying that despite all the potential negative outcomes of a war with Iran, it may have to happen anyway. There may be no other choice.
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post #57 of 207
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE=Nightcrawler;1090548]Iran has every right to defy UN-mandates, since the UN has no legal right to restrict Iran's nuclear program, as long as Iran keeps strict to the non-proliferation-act, that it signed to. That act doesn't prohibit Uran-enrichment, and therefore Iran is legally right to pursue the enrichment, as long as the enrichment is not done to weapon-grade-level. The IAEA's job is to control and make sure, that weapon-grade-level-enrichment is not pursued, that's all.

[q/uote]

Wow. Iran has a right to defy the UN? Well, I guess the UN is truly meaningless then. If Iran has a right, so do we. I sure hope you weren't one of the people screaming for UN approval before invading Iraq.

Quote:
Even if the british hostages were unlawfully emprisoned, which is still a controversy, they were released already uncoditionally and can therefore not serve as a justification for any future actions.

It's only a controversy if you're a fucking apologist. You're second statement is even more amazing: Because it's over, we can't talk about it anymore! I mean, wow. Just...wow.

Quote:

No, he wishes that the regime occupying Al-Quds/Jerusalem would vanish, and more, he is actually sure that this will happen in the future, sort of part of God's fate and plan.

Here is the full translation of Ahmadinejad's speech regarding Israel:



Source: http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/ref/jadspeech.html

So what does Ahmadinejad think about Israel? Namely, that the zionistic regime in Israel must and can be eradicated just like the Shah's regime in Iran was eradicated, and just like the communistic regime in the Soviet-Union was eradicated, and just like Saddam Hussein's regime was eradicated.



But what does Ahmadinejad see as the ideal solution after Israel's regime is abolished. He obviously seeks the return of all palestinian refuggees to their land and homes in the area that is now Israel, and the establishment of a democratic state, but also the expellation of those that came "from far away to plunder this land", hinting at non-arabic jews.

He views Israel's regime over Al-Quds, as an oppressive regime, that was installed with the help of the great oppressor, namely the US, and takes the same line of thought as his hero Khomeini.

Khomeini identified the US as the current great oppressor in the world, dictating policy, economy... to the world and bullying, oppressing and persecuting other nations that strive to be independent.

So the goal for Iran and for all muslims, was according to Khomeini, to defeat the US, so that the world can gain its liberty and dignity back.

Khomeini made sure to make a distinction between America, as the oppressive world-regime , and America as a nation, and thought only the destruction of the former.

Here is a link to Khomeini's sayings on Israel and America:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Spa/7220/khom-quds.html

Oh, well that's all! We're fine then. I mean, it's not like the guy that "wishes Israel would vanish" is potentially developing nuclear weapons. It's not the like the mullahs believe that the end of the world is a good thing and it is their duty to help bring on the return of the twelfth Imam.

Quote:
And so does the US, and considering the openly admitted US-plan to destabilise Iran's regime in any way possible, it is no wonder that Iran's regime became paranoid.

Uh, no we don't. These people are no spies. And you know it. And please, show me how we've charged Iranian-Americans similarly.

Quote:
The US likewise funds anti-mullah-forces in Iran, including terrorists.

Nightcrawler


Bullshit. The MEK thing has been well debunked.
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post #58 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Bullshit. The MEK thing has been well debunked.



And in other news; it has just been proved that white is not white at all and anyone who says it is an apologist.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #59 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Now that's better!

Ugh. Oklahoma. Such a bizarre place.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #60 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post



And in other news; it has just been proved that white is not white at all and anyone who says it is an apologist.....

We talked about that. The MEK is listed as a terror group officially, but they are trying to get themselves off that list. We have "supported them" to a degree, so from a rehtorical standpoint, yes...we supported "a terrorist group." That doesn't mean we "support terror in Iran."
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post #61 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

We talked about that. The MEK is listed as a terror group officially, but they are trying to get themselves off that list. We have "supported them" to a degree, so from a rehtorical standpoint, yes...we supported "a terrorist group." That doesn't mean we "support terror in Iran."

So, not debunked at all then.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #62 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So, not debunked at all then.

That's a matter of opinion, but in reality they're not conducting terrorist operations.
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post #63 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That's a matter of opinion, but in reality they're not conducting terrorist operations.

Don't read this
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #64 of 207
post #65 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


Wow. Iran has a right to defy the UN? Well, I guess the UN is truly meaningless then. If Iran has a right, so do we. I sure hope you weren't one of the people screaming for UN approval before invading Iraq.

You are right on that one point, and I was wrong on that one: As a UN-member, Iran can't defy UN-security-council-decisions that were filed under chapter VII, without being sanctioned according to the measures prescribed in the resolution.

The UN-SC made a resolution under chapter VII article 41 (that means possible sanctions are non-military), calling for the suspension of Uran-enrichment, until the IAEA can and does confirm that the enrichment is used only for civilian purposes.

Iran thinks that the US might abuse that suspension to make it mandatory that enrichment is given up altogether and forever regardless what the IAEA can or cannot confirm, or that it might protract the suspension year after year and effectively achieve the same.

Regardless, there is no reason and no legal mechanism, that would allow the US to attack Iran, since use of force except for strict selfdefense is restricted to the UN-SC, and currently the UN-SC-resoultions issued against Iran remain under article 41.

Nightcrawler
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post #66 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Don't read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Don't read this either.

From the first article:

Quote:
\t


“We disarmed [the MEK] of major weapons but not small arms. [Secretary of Defense Donald] Rumsfeld was pushing to use them as a military special ops team, but policy infighting between their camp and Condi, but she was able to fight them off for a while,” said the intelligence official. According to still another intelligence source, the policy infighting ended last year when Donald Rumsfeld, under pressure from Vice President Cheney, came up with a plan to “convert” the MEK by having them simply quit their organization.

“These guys are nuts,” this intelligence source said. “Cambone and those guys made MEK members swear an oath to Democracy and resign from the MEK and then our guys incorporated them into their unit and trained them.”

I'm not saying I support it. I'm just saying it's a little different than truly "supporting a terrorist organization." Technically I suppose it's true, but it's mainly a rhetorical point. It's like we're sending them out to blow up shit in Iran.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

You are right on that one point, and I was wrong on that one: As a UN-member, Iran can't defy UN-security-council-decisions that were filed under chapter VII, without being sanctioned according to the measures prescribed in the resolution.

The UN-SC made a resolution under chapter VII article 41 (that means possible sanctions are non-military), calling for the suspension of Uran-enrichment, until the IAEA can and does confirm that the enrichment is used only for civilian purposes.

Iran thinks that the US might abuse that suspension to make it mandatory that enrichment is given up altogether and forever regardless what the IAEA can or cannot confirm, or that it might protract the suspension year after year and effectively achieve the same.

Regardless, there is no reason and no legal mechanism, that would allow the US to attack Iran, since use of force except for strict selfdefense is restricted to the UN-SC, and currently the UN-SC-resoultions issued against Iran remain under article 41.

Nightcrawler

There is no mechanism to prevent it either. The self-defense argument would be incredibly easy to make, if necessary.
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post #67 of 207
Thread Starter 
Oh look, Iran is supplying weapons to the Taliban. Nice.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/...nt_iran_c.html

Let's add it to the list.

1. Iran defies UN mandates on its nuke program
2. Iran takes British hostages
3. President Tom repeatedly calls for Israel's destruction.
4. Iran charges civilains with espionage, detains them.
5. Iran funds anti-US forces in Iraq, kidnaps US soldiers.
6. Iran supplies the Taliban, who use the weapons to try and kill not just American, but NATO forces.

It's going to come to war.
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post #68 of 207
post #69 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


Stop being a troll. Adding animated banners and images with no attempt at responding to the points made is a being a massive, smelly troll.
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post #70 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh look, Iran is supplying weapons to the Taliban. Nice.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/...nt_iran_c.html

Let's add it to the list.

1. Iran defies UN mandates on its nuke program
2. Iran takes British hostages
3. President Tom repeatedly calls for Israel's destruction.
4. Iran charges civilains with espionage, detains them.
5. Iran funds anti-US forces in Iraq, kidnaps US soldiers.
6. Iran supplies the Taliban, who use the weapons to try and kill not just American, but NATO forces.

It's going to come to war.

I'm thing of writing a book. It's provisionary title is I, Sheep.

Answer me one question:

Iran is a hardline Shi'i State.

It is essentially at war with the Saudis (and hence the US in Iraq) and any support for Shi'i fighters in Iraq is overwhelmingly to oppose the Sunni Wahabis there rather than to fight the US.

You want a war and believe any crap fed you anyway - I understand that, but WHY do you expect us to swallow the BS that Iran is fighting Sunnis in Iraq and supplying them with weapons at the same time.

I've told you before: you will get your war. Be patient.

Those pics and reports of Iranians in pools of blood WILL come one day...you just have to keep the faith.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #71 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

What a pathetic post.


What a pathetic idea!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #72 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I'm thing of writing a book. It's provisionary title is I, Sheep.

Answer me one question:

Iran is a hardline Shi'i State.

It is essentially at war with the Saudis (and hence the US in Iraq) and any support for Shi'i fighters in Iraq is overwhelmingly to oppose the Sunni Wahabis there rather than to fight the US.

You want a war and believe any crap fed you anyway - I understand that, but WHY do you expect us to swallow the BS that Iran is fighting Sunnis in Iraq and supplying them with weapons at the same time.

I've told you before: you will get your war. Be patient.

Those pics and reports of Iranians in pools of blood WILL come one day...you just have to keep the faith.....

Don't be an ass and tell me what I want. I don't want a war. I just think it's going to become necessary.

And yes, they are supplying the Taliban weapons. Duh. They're doing just what the article says...fighting a proxy war. They resent the West more than they hate the Sunnis.
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post #73 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Stop being a troll. Adding animated banners and images with no attempt at responding to the points made is a being a massive, smelly troll.

What points?

Here's one: You sir, are one angry person. You need to lighten up. Free yourself from this swamp of sick, ignorant and repressive politi-mind-fuck you have submitted to your brain. Your anger is a perfect reflection of all the other war-mongering, toady, neo-con synchopants that follow this clown-car of destruction.
post #74 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Don't be an ass and tell me what I want. I don't want a war. I just think it's going to become necessary.

And yes, they are supplying the Taliban weapons. Duh. They're doing just what the article says...fighting a proxy war. They resent the West more than they hate the Sunnis.

So they are not fighting the Sunnis?

Or are they selling the Sunnis weapons to use against themselves?

How do you know they are supplying? Because you read it?

Or do you have some sort of knowledge of the issue? If so you have never shown it here in all the years I've been subjected to your warblings....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #75 of 207
US Foments Unrest and Spurns Overtures - Countdown to War on Iran

By ALAIN GRESH

Quote:
Silently, stealthily, unseen by cameras, the war on Iran has already begun. Many sources confirm that the United States, bent on destabilising the Islamic Republic, has increased its aid to armed movements among the Azeri, Baluchi, Arab and Kurdish ethnic minorities that make up about 40% of the Iranian population. ABC News reported in April that the US had secretly assisted the Baluchi group Jund al-Islam (Soldiers of Islam), responsible for a recent attack in which some 20 members of the Revolutionary Guard were killed. According to an American Foundation report (1), US commandos have operated inside Iran since 2004.

So the U.S. and some western allies continue to push Iran further into isolation. This in a lot of ways is not a great strategic move. It would make more sense to, as the saying goes, 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer'. Why not bring Iran in to the "inner circle" versus alienating and threatening, which could quite easily put their backs against the wall and leave them no other course of action than aggression.
post #76 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

US Foments Unrest and Spurns Overtures - Countdown to War on Iran

By ALAIN GRESH

So the U.S. and some western allies continue to push Iran further into isolation. This in a lot of ways is not a great strategic move. It would make more sense to, as the saying goes, 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer'. Why not bring Iran in to the "inner circle" versus alienating and threatening, which could quite easily put their backs against the wall and leave them no other course of action than aggression.

And yet these tribal groups who the US are funding to attack Iran are being funded by Iran to attack themselves according to the hive-mind drone echo chamber.

Just when you think they can't get any fucking sicker than plotting mass murder and funding terrorists - they go and pull out of the hat the bs that 'they are doing it to themselves...

In other news, evidence is coming to light of how the Japanese hijacked the Enola Gay and loaded it with atomic bombs and proceeded to nuke 100,000 people before the freedom-loving US could stop them.

Oh - and the 'Kurdish factions' in the above report refers to the terrorist organization the PKK - currently busy blowing up civilians all over eastern Turkey when not helping the US do the same in Iran.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #77 of 207
You can argue until you're blue in the face but the only attack the U S and Israel could manage would be a massive bombing attack by air. You know, bombing the Iranian nuclear threat out of existence and scaring the Iranians into submission, just like what happened in Iraq. Naturally, the liberal MSM will conceal stories of mass death and destruction, just like Iraq.
post #78 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunocrat View Post

You can argue until you're blue in the face but the only attack the U S and Israel could manage would be a massive bombing attack by air. You know, bombing the Iranian nuclear threat out of existence and scaring the Iranians into submission, just like what happened in Iraq. Naturally, the liberal MSM will conceal stories of mass death and destruction, just like Iraq.

If they did that then they should probably get the troops out of the downwind direction.... the fallout would be worse than the DU they have now probably....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #79 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

What points?

Here's one: You sir, are one angry person. You need to lighten up. Free yourself from this swamp of sick, ignorant and repressive politi-mind-fuck you have submitted to your brain. Your anger is a perfect reflection of all the other war-mongering, toady, neo-con synchopants that follow this clown-car of destruction.

And I'm angry?

You're not contributing to the thread with an animation like that. It's not even funny. It's just...a waste of space. That's all I'm saying.
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post #80 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So they are not fighting the Sunnis?

Or are they selling the Sunnis weapons to use against themselves?

How do you know they are supplying? Because you read it?

Or do you have some sort of knowledge of the issue? If so you have never shown it here in all the years I've been subjected to your warblings....


If the article is false, then we'll find out soon enough. The article I linked to seemed pretty clear to me. Obviously I don't believe everything I hear and read, but until I see something that contradicts the evidence, it seems credible.
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