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Apple introduces Santa Rosa-based MacBook Pros - Page 3

post #81 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by palter View Post

OK, the new MBP's use Santa Rosa and have the 800MHz front side bus. Apple only claims to support 667MHz memory, however. Crucial sells 800MHZ DDR2-SODIMMs (e.g., $529 for 2 2GB SODIMMs). Anyone know if they'll work?

From a post I made earlier in a different thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

FSB doesn't have much to do with RAM bus speed. You don't have to have 800 MHz DDR RAM to have an 800 MHz FSB. Look at the PowerMac G5, for example: it had an FSB of 1/2 the processor speed (so the 2.5 GHz machines had an FSB of 1.25 GHz) but the RAM speed was 533 or 667 MHz DDR.
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post #82 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

To be fair: the MacBook Pro (L) 14.0552" X (W) 9.5670" X (H) 1.0197" = 137.1151 cubic inches, which is 15.0980 cu in more than the MacBook.

And your point is

That I'm not sure why you are convinced that making the hard drive easier to to remove would make the device any thicker or heavier.
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post #83 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

Let's see some stats on this, because Windows laptop makers are schooling Apple on weight.

No they aren't.

Let's see the lighter PC laptops that have the full-power Core 2 Duo processor, support for 4 GB RAM, 15.4" widescreens with at least 1440 x 900 resolution, optical audio I/O, dual-link DVI video out, 8600M or equivalent GPU, ExpressCard slot, built-in 8x dual-layer DVD burner and up to 6 hours battery life without the use of a secondary battery.
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post #84 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

Ummm... 1 inchin thin is nothing. Where is the lightweight part? Let's see some stats on this, because Windows laptop makers are schooling Apple on weight.

Because the MacBook Pro models are the lightest in their display class!

Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

BTW - this looks just like an Apple press release - not a real analytical look at the new offerings. Cut and paste is not cool, dudes.

Because a lot of people don't or didn't bother to go to the Apple site and look for themselves and to do an analysis one would have to have the item in hand.

Based on some of the erroneous postings here, there are enough horses asses giving their professional opinions already.
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post #85 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:49am
Quote:
15.4-inch widescreen LED-backlit 1440-by-900 LCD display

Is this the same Samsung 1440x900 LED backlit panel that only shows 45% of the NTSC color gamut?

http://aving.net/usa/news/default.as...de=02&SP_Num=0
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post #86 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That I'm not sure why you are convinced that making the hard drive easier to to remove would make the device any thicker or heavier.

If you ever opened a Titanium to a MacBook Pro and compared it to a Dell (or any other laptop, etc.,) you'll see that the former(s) fits like a golfer's glove. The latter(s) like a catcher's mitt.
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post #87 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Is this the same Samsung 1440x900 LED backlit panel that only shows 45% of the NTSC color gamut?

http://aving.net/usa/news/default.as...de=02&SP_Num=0

I think that's still a little better than the previous model, isn't it? I thought the previous model had something like 39% NTSC gamut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

No they aren't.

Let's see the lighter PC laptops that have the full-power Core 2 Duo processor, support for 4 GB RAM, 15.4" widescreens with at least 1440 x 900 resolution, optical audio I/O, dual-link DVI video out, 8600M or equivalent GPU, ExpressCard slot, built-in 8x dual-layer DVD burner and up to 6 hours battery life without the use of a secondary battery.

That still doesn't mean that Apple is participating in the ultralight class. If power is the priority, then Apple's notebook is fine, but not everyone needs that power, and prefer to prioritize on weight first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

From a post I made earlier in a different thread:

You are correct to note that FSB and memory bus speed don't need to be tightly coupled.
The width of the memory bus in the G5 is twice as wide as the FSB, so the actual transfer rate wasn't as disparate as the numbers would suggest.
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post #88 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Is this the same Samsung 1440x900 LED backlit panel that only shows 45% of the NTSC color gamut?

http://aving.net/usa/news/default.as...de=02&SP_Num=0

And what % of the NTSC color gamut did the old displays (or the 17" MBP display) achieve? This is presumably a function of the number of bits per pixel as well as backlight technology. The old screens were 6 bits and the new ones are probably 6 bits too.
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post #89 of 282
6/5/07 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Is this the same Samsung 1440x900 LED backlit panel that only shows 45% of the NTSC color gamut?

http://aving.net/usa/news/default.as...de=02&SP_Num=0

I take it 45% of something is not good - or in this case is it?
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post #90 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

If you ever opened a Titanium to a MacBook Pro and compared it to a Dell, etc., or any other laptop you'll see that the former(s) fits like a golfer's glove. The latter like a catcher's mitt.

But the problem with that argument is that Apple is doing the same feature just fine in a more compact device.
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post #91 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Honestly, unless you have old equipment or want the high res 17", I fail to see the excitement. The speeds are barely improved.

Ah, but there's more to speed than the CPU. Nobody seems to have noticed that the MacBook Pros now have large (160GB) 7200 RPM hard drives available as an option. This is exciting news to me: CPU speeds are so fast, and RAM large enough, that the real bottleneck in my system is the hard drive! Whenever my system slows down, I always know it's because of the 5400 RPM hard drive because I can hear the read/write head clicking back and forth. Having a MacBook Pro with this faster hard drive should provide more of a performance improvement than any CPU speedup could offer.
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post #92 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That still doesn't mean that Apple is participating in the ultralight class. If power is the priority, then Apple's notebook is fine, but not everyone needs that power, and prefer to prioritize on weight first.

Sure, I appreciate that. I hope that Apple are working on an ultra-portable. Maybe we'll even see one at WWDC.

However, I do get tired of people saying the MBP is "too heavy" or some such. That's a rediculous thing to say given that it is, as far as I'm aware, easily the lightest machine with its capabilities. You have to compare like with like.
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post #93 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:06am
I agree. A nice little upgrade but not quite exciting - yet. I think Apple could have gone further in a few areas. The move to the Nvidia GeForce 8600M GT GPU is good, but they could have at least offered the 512 MB version as an option like what is available in some higher end Santa Rosa equipped PC Notebooks. There seemed to be enough murmuring about getting a GPU with the 512 MB option leading up to this upgrade, but I guess not enough to get Apple to move on it just yet. Also, the new fsb speed is quoted at 800 Mhz and yet Apple plugs in what is claimed to be 667 MHZ DDR RAM. Just trying to clear their 667 MHZ stock? So this begs the question posed by Palter earlier in this thread:
Crucial sells 800MHZ DDR2-SODIMMs (e.g., $529 for 2 2GB SODIMMs). Anyone know if they'll work?
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post #94 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:08am
It's 4-6 weeks if you want a new MBP with the 7200RPM hard drive... that's a bummer. The stores won't have any will they? ...I'm guessing no...
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post #95 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo View Post

Very good upgrade overall. Not good if you already have a recent C2D 'Book but fantastic if you're upgrading from a PB G4!

Nice to finally see a 7200 rpm HD option! Of course, that delays it 4 to 6 weeks.

Even better if you're upgrading from a DigitalAudio 733mHz tower...

Hey, this is somewhat relevant since you brought up the drive speeds -- does anyone know if the 4200 rpm 200GB drive would be fast enough to use for DV video editing or HD playback? I'll be getting one of these new MBPs and I'm trying to decide whether to go for hdd speed or capacity.
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post #96 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicG View Post

Also, the new fsb speed is quoted at 800 Mhz and yet Apple plugs in what is claimed to be 667 MHZ DDR RAM. Just trying to clear their 667 MHZ stock? So this begs the question posed by Palter earlier in this thread:
Crucial sells 800MHZ DDR2-SODIMMs (e.g., $529 for 2 2GB SODIMMs). Anyone know if they'll work?

FSB doesn't equal RAM bus speed. The two are totally different busses. The FSB connects the CPU to the chipset, and the chipset interfaces to the RAM via the RAM bus. I imagine that you could put 800 MHz SO-DIMMS into the machine, but it'd still clock the bus at 333 MHz so you wouldn't see any change in performance.
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post #97 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:13am
Has anyone contacted the Apple stores to see if they have any of the new models? I am in Seattle. No Apples open yet!
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post #98 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMojo View Post

does anyone know if the 4200 rpm 200GB drive would be fast enough to use for DV video editing or HD playback? I'll be getting one of these new MBPs and I'm trying to decide whether to go for hdd speed or capacity.

You aren't going to be doing any serious HD editing without an external FW800 drive.

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post #99 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:17am
Perhaps a few of you should visit Macword and get some more insight. Seems like a lot are speculating without facts. Making ridiculous statements and thus an absoluate waste of time.
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post #100 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

But the problem with that argument is that Apple is doing the same feature just fine in a more compact device.

I believe that the original issue was that the MacBooks were more difficult to change the harddrive.

And rightlfully so. I find it a lot harder to change my (compact) golf glove than it does to my (big) catcher's mitt.
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post #101 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiato storm View Post

I take it 45% of something is not good - or in this case is it?

The MacBook Pro is supposed to be a pro laptop after all. There are other LED screens which can cover over 100% of NTSC.
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post #102 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:31am
Engadget is saying that these aren't santa rosa based laptops

Quote:
Apple left a little mystery in their MacBook Pro announcement today, and being that this marks the one of industry's first official releases of an LED-backlit laptop (behind Sony, but still ahead of Dell), we had to take out the guesswork and get confirmation on a few of our more burning questions.

All 15-inch MBPs now use LED-backlit displays standard; 17-inchers still use CCFL (cold cathode fluorescent)
Apple claims users can see a battery-life benefit of between 30 mins - 1 hour (depending on use). They did not have stats on exact efficiencies between LED and CCFL backlit displays.
The new LED backlight is the same brightness: 300 vs 300 nits of the previous gen's CCFL
The viewing angle is also the same as before
In other words, besides faster time from fully-off to full-brightness and an increase in battery life, Apple claims users should notice absolutely no perceivable difference between last-gen displays and the new LED-backlit ones.
Other bits

The MacBook line is not yet using Santa Rosa
Even though the MBP is 0.2 pounds lighter, we're still without an internal / integrated 3G option

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/05/m...t-macbook-pro/
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post #103 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:33am
I just ordered one. I've waited months for this. My other laptop was only a year old but I couldn't give up the temptation
Where are most people buying them from? I know many places like Amazon, etc. don't get them this fast. I have a Apple Business Agent I deal with. Since you buy directly from the store through them you get them fast through the Apple store. How many others use Apple Business Agents on here? What I like about this Agent is if you contact him first before ordering often he can throw something in extra for free. Sometimes it's been things such as software such as Parallels, books on Mac OS X, even in one case extra memory. I just negotiate every purchase before I order. What are other people's experience with Apple Business Agents on here? If you are interested I use his store at www.avcconsulting.info/applestore. His web site is www.avcconsulting.info and I think his email is mweigl@avcconsulting.info
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post #104 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:39am
About a yr ago the HD (5400) on my 12" pbg4 died and I replaced with 7200. The difference in speed for basic daily use (MS Office; some stats; safari; mail) really surprised me. Battery life probably takes a small hit, but the much-discussed "snappiness" was well worth it. Together with a recent RAM upgrade to 1.25GB makes me think I might hold out until the likely Jan08 upgrades.
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post #105 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo View Post

The 15 goes from 5 to 6 hrs. battery life. Very good upgrade overall. Not good if you already have a recent C2D 'Book but fantastic if you're upgrading from a PB G4!

That would be me.

The battery life on my PB G4 is down to about 60 minutes, even after replacing the battery about 2 years ago.

I'm eagerly awaiting the first eyewitness testimonies about the LED display performance AND battery life.
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post #106 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsmi View Post

Engadget is saying that these aren't santa rosa based laptops



http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/05/m...t-macbook-pro/


No they aren't. They are pointing out that MACBOOKS, not MBPs, are on the old Napa platform. New MBPs are using SR.
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post #107 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsmi View Post

Engadget is saying that these aren't santa rosa based laptops



http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/05/m...t-macbook-pro/

Well, they obviously spoke to someone at Apple who either doesn't know what the hell they're talking about, or was being a little bit too accurate.

Santa-Rosa is the codename of the latest Centrino Platform. Apple doesn't use the Centrino Platform, and therefore strictly speaking, the MBP is not a Santa Rosa machine. However, these new MBPs have 800 MHz FSB and support for 4 GB of RAM, which is only available with the laptop motherboard chipset (Intel Mobile 965 Express, codenamed Crestline) that forms the basis of the Santa-Rosa Platform.

Edit: Oops, backtomac is right.

I still hate the MacBook name. At least with iBook and PowerBook you didn't have this potential for confusion.
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post #108 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by meelash View Post

So now we've got the MacBooks, MacBook Pros all set, and iPhone set for later this month, so what will we see at WWDC: iMacs!!! Why would they go this long without an upgrade to the iMac if it was just going to be a boring incremental bump? They would've done that now as welll... no?

Jeez, I hope so... and if they do, I'm hoping it'll be the new multi-touch iMac. I'd loooove dat.

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post #109 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

The MacBook Pro is supposed to be a pro laptop after all. There are other LED screens which can cover over 100% of NTSC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiato storm View Post

I take it 45% of something is not good - or in this case is it?

Are we talking a percentage of visible gamut, RGB gamut or NTSC gamut? If it is 45% of NTSC gamut, does anyone have a link for that fact?
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post #110 of 282
6/5/07 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post

Just the other day everyone was bitching about how they need to put anything but the 1600 in the macbook pros. Today when they replace them, everyone is bitching about something else.

Someone needs a bitch-slapping!

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post #111 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsmi View Post

Engadget is saying that these aren't santa rosa based laptops

Sorry danielsmi, but you better read that again!
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post #112 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BdeRWest View Post

I call PR BULLSHIT! Nothing is one-inch thin. That's like Willard Goddamn Scott trying to tell everyone old people are 100-years young.

It's just marketing-ese, and fairly innocuous marketing-ese at that.

Certainly not as bad as "pre-owned cars".

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
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post #113 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You aren't going to be doing any serious HD editing without an external FW800 drive.

Oh, I agree -- I'd mainly be doing DV editing. I just meant HD playback, not editing. For any HD editing I'd be using my external.
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post #114 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Sorry danielsmi, but you better read that again!

I think that it would be prudent if we all took the time to get our facts right before we jump. In particular, it seems that the more the comment is bitching or negative in nature, i.e., dissing what Apple is supposed to be doing or is doing, the more the information is wrongly stated and/or supported.

And if you are wrong, wouldn't it be better to admit it so we don't get a continuation of the bull shit.
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post #115 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

He's not arguing that its not a bad update compared to the previous specs, just that there's nothing to the update to warrant upgrading his MacBook.

For example, a 15" MacBook at $1300 would be something.

Yeah, it would be. Even at $1500 (the 'black MacBook' price level), it would be huge, as

1) the current black MB is so very not worth it, aka 'margins hog', and

2) there's well-equipped 15" PC notebooks going for $1200-1300 or so (and not-so-well equipped ones for around $1K).

Apple doesn't have to match prices, certainly, because they offer more overall, even against well-equipped PC notebooks, but they DO have to remain within shouting distance if they really want to clean up to their full potential.

Sure, their notebook sales are good, but they could be even better. Asking $2000 to step up to a 15" notebook is just too wide a price delta over the competition. But a black 15" MB for $1500 would absolutely kill.

It'd be nice if Apple got more aggressive here, but I think it'll be a long time before they do. When things are going well, the tendency is to 'stay the course' and point out how well things are going, not to explore how much better things can be.

.
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post #116 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Is this the same Samsung 1440x900 LED backlit panel that only shows 45% of the NTSC color gamut?

http://aving.net/usa/news/default.as...de=02&SP_Num=0

Yes those are the LED displays.
They are white LED, so no benefit for hardware color correction (like RGB LED)
and they are 6-bits 262K colors, no millions (class action against Apple last month for
false advertising \ )

There is some benefit for power savings, but nothig really pro about them...

I'm going to buy new Macbook Pro anyway
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post #117 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:18am
the top-line 15" does it for me.
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post #118 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickr10 View Post

I just ordered one.

Same here. Glad I waited for my wife to open her email this morning though. She just got an announcement from her company that offered employee discounts on Apple products. Even had a link to the Apple store, but included the discount in the summary. Savings just about paid for the AppleCare.

Great day all around.
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post #119 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:26am
15" MacBook for $1599 would be cool for WWDC!

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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post #120 of 282
6/5/07 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo View Post

The 15 goes from 5 to 6 hrs. battery life. Very good upgrade overall. Not good if you already have a recent C2D 'Book but fantastic if you're upgrading from a PB G4!

Nice to finally see a 7200 rpm HD option! Of course, that delays it 4 to 6 weeks.

Well, they say it was 5 hours of batt life, but if you're running wireless, and the speakers are on, and bluetooth is on, that number drops dramatically.

It's even worse if you're like me and dump all your iTunes media onto an Airdisk. Try watching a movie that way, with the wireless and speakers and CPU chugging away. Not nearly 5 hours then.
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